[X] [CA] Attempt to take control of adjacent villages (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, -2 Diplomacy, unknowable chance of war with the Hathatyn, +8-10 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion)
[X] [Law] Have the law favour splitting
[X] [Boats] Size
[X] [Infra] Main Saltern Construction
 
He wrote:
I think, because then you must create definitions for what is one guild and what another. Preferably future-proof ones.
Well, having a heroic admin means that at worst we will have a soft fail, so it might actually be worth taking that risk. If he succeeds, we cut off a lot of the long term problems, if not we probably lose some stability, which, while not fun, is survivable.
 
Lumping sounds like it will lead to single craft guilds in short order (all smelters under a Smelting guild) splitting sounds like breaking them up to smaller units (all iron smelters under a iron Smelting guild)


Splitting it by far the lesser evil, and hell it could actually work out well as they well compete with each other to high hell, which benefits everyone else greatly.
 
Guys if we swallow 8 or 10 econ from the Hathatyn during their civil war we could break them!

That means that we have no competition in Salt, Dyes or Wine!!!!

We could, in one fell swoop, gain three dominant positions of trade!
 
[X] [CA] Attempt to take control of adjacent villages (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, -2 Diplomacy, unknowable chance of war with the Hathatyn, +8-10 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion)
[X] [Boats] Speed
[X] [Infra] Main Expand Snail Cultivation
 
I'm not convinced they'd actually have an easier time going up rivers. Speed improvements at sea generally involve reductions in drag and improvements in sails. These are less important in rivers, as there the primary issue is dealing with currents. There is also the fact that picking speed is not picking portability, which is the design most likely to be suited for river travel. Additionally, larger boats tend to be resistant to violence and storm.

As for spamming large numbers, these would be cutting edge new designs. They'll be slower to produce than our current designs no matter which option we pick, unless we go for just increasing production of the current style.
larger boats tend to be slower and therefore easier to catch and raid. They are probably r more resistant to storms they're caught in, though fast ones are more able to outrun storms.

this is a long term investment (and even a single turn is 20 years) so the "cutting edge" factor is irrelevant. Furthermore, larger boats take more wood and more time, so overall even at the beginning smaller, faster boats are easier to produce en masse.

The whole point was that smaller boats don't have as larger a draft as larger boats, so they will have an easier time going up rivers than larger ones. Portability would help the boat go up rivers, but considering that portability is literally carry-ability, I don't see why it would matter when the only rivers we care about are already traversible by our normal boats. If we actually plan on invading Hatha by river it would impact our decision. However, that sounds like an overextension.
 
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Everyone, if you do "Attempt to take control of adjacent villages", you REALLY need to go with Saltern as well. This is due to the fact that we'll overflow EVERYTHING without that, with a ton of resources going into Martial. We'd be WAY over the cap, and we all know that can cause problems.
 
He wrote:
I think, because then you must create definitions for what is one guild and what another. Preferably future-proof ones.
We might be able to pull it off because of Gon, but damn. Tough luck for him.


For now I'll go with this since the opportunity is awesome. Might change. I think taking the max will actually pop Valleyhome next turn.

[X] [CA] Encourage people to flee the conflicts (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, +4-5 Econ)
[X] [Boats] Speed
[X] [Infra] Main Saltern Construction
 
Ok, you know what? I want more land.
[X] [CA] Attempt to take control of adjacent villages (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, -2 Diplomacy, unknowable chance of war with the Hathatyn, +8-10 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion)
[X] [Law] Attempt to close off both practices
[X] [Boats] Size
[X] [Infra] Main Expand Snail Cultivation

My original vote is still very viable, as it is most likely to start a golden age and thus let us get tons of shinies in exchange for the dangerously high stats. This instead will leverage us to basically take over the Hathatyn and have lots of excess martial with dangerously low stability.

We have an admin hero so now is the best time to go for the more complex solutions. It might fail and cost stability, but this plan goes for military takeover instead of a golden age so that's not a big problem.
 
[X] [CA] Attempt to take control of adjacent villages (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, -2 Diplomacy, unknowable chance of war with the Hathatyn, +8-10 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion)
[X] [Law] Attempt to close off both practices
[X] [Boats] Size
[X] [Infra] Main Saltern Construction
 
Ok, you know what? I want more land.
[X] [CA] Attempt to take control of adjacent villages (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, -2 Diplomacy, unknowable chance of war with the Hathatyn, +8-10 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion)
[X] [Law] Attempt to close off both practices
[X] [Boats] Size
[X] [Infra] Main Expand Snail Cultivation

My original vote is still very viable, as it is most likely to start a golden age and thus let us get tons of shinies in exchange for the dangerously high stats. This instead will leverage us to basically take over the Hathatyn and have lots of excess martial with dangerously low stability.

We have an admin hero so now is the best time to go for the more complex solutions. It might fail and cost stability, but this plan goes for military takeover instead of a golden age so that's not a big problem.
That put's us at 8 Expansion before the main turn and I think we are getting 3+ Expansion still so Valleyhome pops.
 
If you look on the Civilization Sheet, the Hath are crossed out. Guys, I think they've already dead. We might have to contend with a successor state of course, but wow. Wow. They must have crit failed hard.
 
That put's us at 8 Expansion before the main turn and I think we are getting 3+ Expansion still so Valleyhome pops.
For now I'll go with this since the opportunity is awesome. Might change. I think taking the max will actually pop Valleyhome next turn.
No, that [CA] option gets +4 econ expansion but -4 to -6 net econ expansion since those slots will be immediately taken by the immigrants. Otherwise we'd have the overcrowding problem when we run out of econ slots.
 
If you look on the Civilization Sheet, the Hath are crossed out. Guys, I think they've already dead. We might have to contend with a successor state of course, but wow. Wow. They must have crit failed hard.
Somebody done fucked up the good way. Crow be laughing his ass off.
 
If you look on the Civilization Sheet, the Hath are crossed out. Guys, I think they've already dead. We might have to contend with a successor state of course, but wow. Wow. They must have crit failed hard.

Wonder what happened. Maybe a Pompei situation? Volcano wipes out an area, everyone else is fucked by proximity?
 
No, that [CA] option gets +4 econ expansion but -4 to -6 net econ expansion since those slots will be immediately taken by the immigrants. Otherwise we'd have the overcrowding problem when we run out of econ slots.
Ahh thank you!

Changing.

[X] [CA] Attempt to take control of adjacent villages (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, -2 Diplomacy, unknowable chance of war with the Hathatyn, +8-10 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion)
[X] [Law] Attempt to close off both practices
[X] [Boats] Speed
[X] [Infra] Main Saltern Construction

Maneuverability is king on the seas until you get ships of the line so speed is king for me right now.

I am barely willing to risk the <complex> admin vote because we have Gon.
Adhoc vote count started by BungieONI on Jun 3, 2017 at 6:58 PM, finished with 46799 posts and 20 votes.
 
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Ok, you know what? I want more land.
[X] [CA] Attempt to take control of adjacent villages (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, -2 Diplomacy, unknowable chance of war with the Hathatyn, +8-10 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion)
[X] [Law] Attempt to close off both practices
[X] [Boats] Size
[X] [Infra] Main Expand Snail Cultivation

My original vote is still very viable, as it is most likely to start a golden age and thus let us get tons of shinies in exchange for the dangerously high stats. This instead will leverage us to basically take over the Hathatyn and have lots of excess martial with dangerously low stability.

We have an admin hero so now is the best time to go for the more complex solutions. It might fail and cost stability, but this plan goes for military takeover instead of a golden age so that's not a big problem.
Snails don't cost enough. if you're going with "Attempt to take control", go with Saltern. It'll soak up the excess resources and let us not spill over into martial. Plus another Saltern is a guaranteed Dominant good according to AN.
 
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[X] [CA] Attempt to take control of adjacent villages (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, -2 Diplomacy, unknowable chance of war with the Hathatyn, +8-10 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion)
[X] [Law] Attempt to close off both practices
[X] [Boats] Portability
[X] [Infra] Main Expand Snail Cultivation

You know-

Fuck it. One of my cats has been missing for a week, I don't want to say 'lets not over reach ourselfs guys' I WANT TO REACH AND GRAB THOSE FUCKING VILLAGES AND THEIR CATS

ALL WILL BELONG TO THE FOREST'S CHILDREN
 
Well, having a heroic admin means that at worst we will have a soft fail, so it might actually be worth taking that risk. If he succeeds, we cut off a lot of the long term problems, if not we probably lose some stability, which, while not fun, is survivable.
? At the moment it seems like the "grab land" vote wins, and that already costs stability (2+). If we lose further stability, and get the martial from the land grab, won't that produce problems?
 
Diff Checker
General
Diplomacy 14 [+1]
Economy 11 [-1]
Econ Expansion 4
Martial 10 {14}
Diplo 13 (+3) [+1] -> 14 [+1]
13 +3 (last turn) +1 (saltern) +3 (dock) = 14 + 6 Art overflow
Econ 11 (+1) [-1] -> 11 [-1]
11 +1 (last turn) -2 (Festival) -1 (Megaproject) -1 (Docks) -1 (true city) +4 (expand econ) = 11
Econ Expansion 4 -> 4
4 -4 (Expand econ) + 1 (Festival) +1 (megaproject) + 1 (Docks) +1 (True city) = 4
Martial 10 {11} -> 10 {14}
Just the quality of its own bonus getting fixed
Stability
Stability 3 (emboldened)
Legitimacy 3 (max)
Stability 1 -> 3
+1 from festival, +1 from hero crit(s)
Cultural
Art 14
Mysticism 12 [-1]
Prestige 14
Art 13 -> 14
13 + 1 (Festival) + 6 (Overflow) - 1 (megaproject) = 14 + 5 Mysticism overflow
Mysticism 7 [-1] -> 12 [-1]
7 -1 (wisdom drain) +5 (overflow) + 1 Study stars = 12
New construction tech, from either temple or admin hero construction?
Artistry
Political Art
Sacred Art
Specialists
Mural
Sculpture
Murals and sculture are new =D
Property
Communal land
Association equipment
Changed from just "Communal" for everything
Provinces - [Main] Expand Econ, [Main] Build Docks, [Sec] Study Stars
Yes!
Stallions - [Main] New Settlement, [Sec] Build Walls, [Sec] Expand Forest
Wall - [Main] New Settlement, [Sec] Build Walls, [Sec] Expand Forest
I see there is a consensus on how to do things in the marches XD
Heroic Admin and Diplomatic Heir Gained!
+1 Stability
Fuck yeah!
About the only ones who were annoyed were the shamans who had asked him to help stockpile the various herbs they had been collecting from some of the forested hills in the western part of Redhills, considering that he had burned the wagonload of the stuff they had been studying. Still, while no one was quite sure how far the riot might have gone without his partial intervention, he had definitely helped minimize the damage, both in the immediate sense and in the sense of creating a lasting black mark upon what the festival was trying to do. Things could be corrected later and the next year would be better as intended.
Sounds like we had a terrible roll on festival, but then an amazing roll on forests? Consumed study forest chance in exchange for extra stab, crit fail negation, and a hero? maybe?
The Highlanders tried to use the disruption caused by the recent drought to smash into the over-extended and distracted Thunder Horse, but found themselves getting turned away after achieving early success against the vassals of the Thunder Horse. Part of it was that the Swamp Folk were apparently causing trouble in the south, distracting the Xohyssiri, part of it was that they were trying to get their house in order back in their main territory.
Yes, everyone in the lowlands kill each other...
Elsewhere it sounded like the newest king for the Metal Workers was making a big push to expand out into the territory around the mountains where they kept their mines. And as for the Hathatyn...
Hmm...i wonder if that will hurt our ability to make the trade post...
No one was quite sure what was up with them since it sounded like they had been fine, right up until somehow everything spontaneously caught fire - and that was only mild hyperbole, since it sounded like things being on fire was literally one of their big problems. Some suspected that perhaps what forests they had had been stressed by the drought the prior generation, but the People honestly didn't have enough to go on to be able to figure out what might be wrong, but in any case it sounded like at least one tributary city was just straight up gone. Whether engulfed in flame, buried in a landslide, drowned in a flood, or all of the above was difficult to say, but by the sounds of things the people there must have seriously pissed off the gods somehow. This had of course lead to what was frankly a terrifying amount of violent gygo among their southern neighbours. There were of course refugees that the People welcomed as always, but things sounded so bad that villages nominally under the control of the Hathatyn might be persuaded to switch allegiance.
Clearly someone should have gone to their neighbors to ask for forestry techniques, and cared for the land :p
What to do about the Hathatyn?
[] [CA] Accept those who come to the People (Chance of Stability loss, +2 Econ)
[] [CA] Encourage people to flee the conflicts (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, +4-5 Econ)
[] [CA] Attempt to take control of adjacent villages (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, -2 Diplomacy, unknowable chance of war with the Hathatyn, +8-10 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion)
...50% chance of staying at 3 stab for a golden age, or actual expansion in a great direction, and enough econ to overflow and fill i think all of our stats almost exactly...
Both were asking if the king might adjust the laws for occupational administration slightly to disfavour their opposition, usually by demanding either higher minimum occupation sizes or lower maximum administrative sizes, so as to make the behaviours harder.

Should the king intervene?
[] [Law] Have the law favour splitting
[] [Law] Have the law favour lumping
[] [Law] Attempt to close off both practices
[] [Law] Leave things be
...Gah, more admin stuff i don't understand!
And then... and then the People noted that they basically didn't have any other major worries and could focus their energy on infrastructural work if they so chose. Or possibly to brag to the lowlanders that unlike them they were safe and secure via a well timed salt gift.

Pick an option
[] [Infra] Main Salt Gift
[] [Infra] Main Saltern Construction
[] [Infra] Main Vineyard
[] [Infra] Main Expand Snail Cultivation
[] [Infra] Main Expand Economy
OOoh, nice--i love the fluff on the salt gift option, but i'd say probably go for snails? Not like the Hath are going to be competing for dyes any time soon...
Yeah, no, fuck corruption in all its forms.
Only issue is that option is likely the hardest
Hey folks can we wait on the Law vote till We get an answer to the question I asked? I don't want to fuck up again on an admin thing.
Good point...
Simplest? Lumping, definitely lumping. Least likely to cause problems? Hmmm... close off both practices, although that is probably the most complex, most likely to cause short term problems, and may have the possibility of straight up not working.

Will our admin/dip hero be applying his heroic skills to the rolls for this choice?


For now:

[X] [CA] Attempt to take control of adjacent villages (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, -2 Diplomacy, unknowable chance of war with the Hathatyn, +8-10 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion)
[X] [Law] Attempt to close off both practices
[X] [Boats] Size
[X] [Infra] Main Saltern Construction

Will look at arguments more after i get back from movies :)


Fake edit: My diff checker doesn't catch it, but the hath are already crossed out on the trade section...

Actual Edit: Fixing the diff checker link, and changing to saltern to help eat the econ overflow so it doesn't go to martial
 
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If you look on the Civilization Sheet, the Hath are crossed out. Guys, I think they've already dead. We might have to contend with a successor state of course, but wow. Wow. They must have crit failed hard.
It could mean that they're unwilling or in no state to trade.

Another reason for big boats is to ship warriors to the Western Wall March to dump some Martial. Or a sea-based invasion if you all end up eating the Hathatyn.
 
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