I don't really agree on the short sightedness of provinces. They've repeatedly done long term actions like Survey. Their problem is they're myopic. They only see local optima, not kingdom wide.

That's what I meant by short-sighted though? They will do something that benefits within the generation or so, sure, but that's much smaller than our timescale in the game, so it's pretty shortsighted for us.
Like, I do not see them going for Forests or Boats despite both being necessary for the kingdom as a whole in a long run. Nor do they help to build the Temple unless we tell them to, despite it solving the problem of Mysticism bleed far more decisively than bandage of Study Stars can.
 
That's what I meant by short-sighted though? They will do something that benefits within the generation or so, sure, but that's much smaller than our timescale in the game, so it's pretty shortsighted for us.
Like, I do not see them going for Forests or Boats despite both being necessary for the kingdom as a whole in a long run. Nor do they help to build the Temple unless we tell them to, despite it solving the problem of Mysticism bleed far more decisively than bandage of Study Stars can.
I'm distinguishing between geographically and temporally short sighted. I think they're far more the first than the second.
 
That's what I meant by short-sighted though? They will do something that benefits within the generation or so, sure, but that's much smaller than our timescale in the game, so it's pretty shortsighted for us.
Like, I do not see them going for Forests or Boats despite both being necessary for the kingdom as a whole in a long run. Nor do they help to build the Temple unless we tell them to, despite it solving the problem of Mysticism bleed far more decisively than bandage of Study Stars can.
Study Stars is a very long-term action that requires multiple generations for benefits to appear.
 
Fundamentally though, comparisons between heroic admin kings and balanced policy are FAR from apt. They don't have above average skill, they don't have all the information, and they don't have the same goals and responsibility.
 
I am not so sure provinces have a better grasp of long-term needs, else they would voluntarily support the Temple instead of Study Stars and Expand Forests instead of Expand Economy because we are capped now. Overall, your whole premise of 'provinces have a better grasp of needs' does not make any sense at all to me; if they did have a better grasp, Heroic Administrators would not be nearly as special...and there would be no need for players.

Provinces are fundamentally short-sighted and care about their own generation-long at max interests first and foremost, as they should be; it's up to us to put them in order and show them one direction.
And here we proceed to immediately prove provinces make better decisions than players on concerns with the post claiming the opposite:
-If they didn't take Expand Economy, Valleyhome would have reverted to non-city due to slot churn by next turn no matter what they did.
-If they didn't open the quarry/mine, the Temple would be of lower quality or take longer to finish. It had been confirmed that a quarry of high quality stone aided the contruction of a Great Temple, and likely both Library and Palace. It also turned out to be the simplest solution to the Mysticism problem, by generating a massive overflow in every stat Mysticism went up.
-There is no reason to take Secondary Expand Holy Site versus Study Stars. It costs more, churns the Economy back into city-ending slots and misses out on the Study Stars streak bonus.

-We had enough Forests for the current mine output. Next turn they are likely to grow more forest before they try to open another mine.
-We have more boats than would be useful and we have no actual use for a new boat type yet.

Players are fundamentally single issue voters who put personal projects over overall state integrity.
 
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Study Stars is a very long-term action that requires multiple generations for benefits to appear.

I am pretty sure they are taking it for +1 Mysticism without cost more than anything else.

Fundamentally though, comparisons between heroic admin kings and balanced policy are FAR from apt. They don't have above average skill, they don't have all the information, and they don't have the same goals and responsibility.

And yet veekie thinks that, for some reason, we can trust them to make better decision that us, which effectively takes away our control, which warrants comparison with the only other case of us losing control - heroic admins.
So no, it's a pretty apt comparison, because in both cases we are losing part of control over what our provinces are doing; and while in Heroic Admin's cases we have a knowledge that they do know better, I see no reason to believe the same about non-heroic local chiefs.
 
And here we proceed to immediately prove provinces make better decisions than players on concerns with the post claiming the opposite:
-If they didn't take Expand Economy, Valleyhome would have reverted to non-city due to slot churn by next turn no matter what they did.
-If they didn't open the quarry/mine, the Temple would be of lower quality or take longer to finish. It had been confirmed that a quarry of high quality stone aided the contruction of a Great Temple, and likely both Library and Palace. It also turned out to be the simplest solution to the Mysticism problem, by generating a massive overflow in every stat Mysticism went up.
-There is no reason to take Secondary Expand Holy Site versus Study Stars. It costs more, churns the Economy back into city-ending slots and misses out on the Study Stars streak bonus.

Players are fundamentally single issue voters who put personal projects over overall state integrity.

And players netted us Iron and Sacred Warding and other long-term benefits. Because those 'personal projects' are actually called 'long-term planning' when your goal is not to deride your opponent, @veekie .
Like, if provincial governors were so much better than players, our neighbours would be in late Iron Age by now - after all, they are on 'autopilot' all the time.
 
Balanced policy can grow forests. We know that part for a fact.
Roads less certain, though we've seen the Marches do it.

And we're getting them. We have the resources for it. Current plan is to push the temple the slow way while we whack a mole on the other issues.
Heck, we can do this next turn:
[Main] Temple
[Secondary] Grand Sacrifice
[Secondary] Grand Sacrifice x2
Province Law Expand Economy
Province Expand Forest - Logical choice due to capping out the number of mines we can support.
Province Vineyard - Logical choice due to new luxury product
Province Study Stars

This is a possible naturally arising turn, which brings us within sight of the Golden Age upon Temple completion.
The most likely reason not to take this combo for the provinces are:
-Defense concerns, so they build walls instead
-Overlooked concerns, so they deal with it.

Overall, a solid positive. Balanced offload part of the decisionmaking to the provinces, who have a better grasp of needs, opportunities and situations out to the mid term.
I don't really agree on the short sightedness of provinces. They've repeatedly done long term actions like Survey. Their problem is they're myopic. They only see local optima, not kingdom wide.
Pretty much this. I'd rather swap policies to work on the megaproject and leave the fiddly bits to us. It also gets far more work done on the project.
So:
[Main] Grand Sacrifice
[Secondary] Vineyard
[Secondary] Expand Forest/Expand Economy (Depending on what our econ slots look like and if we used charcoal for that new mine, which I don't think we did, seeing as you don't need it for silver smelting.)
Province Law Expand Economy
Province Megaproject x3
 
I am pretty sure they are taking it for +1 Mysticism without cost more than anything else.



And yet veekie thinks that, for some reason, we can trust them to make better decision that us, which effectively takes away our control, which warrants comparison with the only other case of us losing control - heroic admins.
So no, it's a pretty apt comparison, because in both cases we are losing part of control over what our provinces are doing; and while in Heroic Admin's cases we have a knowledge that they do know better, I see no reason to believe the same about non-heroic local chiefs.
Well. I meant drawing equivalency really. Since I actually compared them in the rest of my post. It's just a very unfavorable comparison.
 
And players netted us Iron and Sacred Warding and other long-term benefits. Because those 'personal projects' are actually called 'long-term planning' when your goal is not to deride your opponent, @veekie .
Like, if provincial governors were so much better than players, our neighbours would be in late Iron Age by now - after all, they are on 'autopilot' all the time.
We are better at picking long term choices, politically harder choices or out of character choices that have ruinous immediate circumstances..but we are demonstrably worse at actually making trains run on time, meeting population needs, or ensuring sufficient defenses. I'd point out the Nomadson's rampage through Northshore was entirely preventable...except we switched to Expansion policy when we needed more walls, so we made more unwalled settlements.

Hell, we've been wondering about mines and all that, but we've simply never done a survey in 10 turns, so we were stuck with the one mine we found on a whim early on.
 
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Second paragraph: found a Trade Post. It costs 2 Martial to found, on top of 5 Diplomacy and 2 Economy. Gets us out of the yellow for standard Martial and out of the cap when factoring in bonus Martial.
Found Trading Post - When doing long distance trading, sometimes having your own infrastructure in place at the other end can be quite useful. Current Target: None
*M: -5 Diplo, -2 Econ, -2 Martial, founds trading post to generate Diplomacy

Do I need to remind you that that action is currently locked out? Good solution otherwise, though.
 
Pretty much this. I'd rather swap policies to work on the megaproject and leave the fiddly bits to us. It also gets far more work done on the project.
So:
[Main] Grand Sacrifice
[Secondary] Vineyard
[Secondary] Expand Forest/Expand Economy (Depending on what our econ slots look like and if we used charcoal for that new mine, which I don't think we did, seeing as you don't need it for silver smelting.)
Province Law Expand Economy
Province Megaproject x3
Pretty sure we'll need to spend a secondary to swap policies.

So maybe
[Main] Grand Sacrifice
[Secondary] Change Policy (Megaproject Support)
[Secondary] Expand Economy

I need to run the stat math to be sure, but I'll wait for the main turn update (and official econ slot numbers) to do that.
 
I rather like our Martial being at a partial limit - it's bringing up smaller, easily managed problems that can give innovations. I'm rather hoping that at some point someone will get the bright idea of having the warriors work on public works projects (such as roads) during times when they aren't fighting, but I can't think of any actions that would make that particular innovation more likely to show up. Maybe a high-admin king?
 
Do I need to remind you that that action is currently locked out? Good solution otherwise, though.
Since we're opening up trade with the Metal Workers again
From what I understand, the option was locked out because the nomads came in and banned us from trading with the Metal Workers directly. Now that we're trading with the Metal Workers directly again, we'll in all likelihood get the option once more.
 
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We are better at picking long term choices, politically harder choices or out of character choices that have ruinous immediate circumstances..but we are demonstrably worse at actually making trains run on time, meeting population needs, or ensuring sufficient defenses. I'd point out the Nomadson's rampage through Northshore was entirely preventable...except we switched to Expansion policy when we needed more walls, so we made more unwalled settlements.
A once in a millenium nomad raid was preventable. Sure. Worth the opporunity cost? Not likely.
Hell, we've been wondering about mines and all that, but we've simply never done a survey in 10 turns, so we were stuck with the one mine we found on a whim early on.
We did one 3 turns ago. We then built a mine on it, so we HAVE two mines. Seriously?
 
Also we now have a quarry that was made by Northshore due to the information gathered by that survey

And we could have a Temple 4-5/7 done, meaning that we would have it online next turn, instead of waiting for literally 100 more years. And we could build a mine after that, getting silver couple of turns later and getting the Temple done approximately century earlier.
 
Living Conditions - Early Iron Age
What's the red limit for Centralization?
How well do our advisors think that building a wall will help the crime problem?
How trained are blackbirds for urban environments?
Can you explain more about how Enforce Law would work?

Advisors don't know.

They think at the very least it will crack down on tax evasion type smuggling and the like and make administration easier, which should have secondary improvements in how other crimes develop.

Blackbirds aren't that great in urban environments yet, although they're also the only warriors with even remotely the right training to deal with the situations.

Go out and make sure that people are in fact following the law.

1. How many Holy sites do the other known nation have?
2. Are they as impressive as ours or more impressive?
3. What is their current opinion on us, like for what are we known/famous for to them?
4. Has our Religion evolved any further and if so how?
5. Have our people some kind of physical (like fair skin from living in the forests, smaller build for our warriors from not eating meat all the day,) or spiritual (like some special prayer or behavior) tellings that sets them obviously apart from others and marks them as our people to our neighbours?

Each other the other major kingdom has at least two major holy sites that you know about, they likely have many other minor ones.

Most of the other major settled groups are of the opinion that the People are an odd lot who have lots of good stuff and are generally rather generous, but seem to prefer to keep to themselves. There's also the general opinion that they're kind of weak since they don't engage in much fighting, but they're probably strong enough to make fighting in the hills a pain, and while there's good stuff beyond the threat of another rival taking a swing before you've made it to the good stuff means that if they're not going to cause trouble you might as well leave them alone for the time being.

There is currently a significant amount of questioning of how exactly the spirits work. A sort of proto-theology is started to bubble away in the background. Major changes are unlikely to crystallize before the temple or library are completed though.

The People have about average skin tones for their neighbours, but they also have a wide array of neighbours and a lot of internal mixing so everyone thinks that they look just a bit exotic in terms of skin and hair tones. The nomads think that they look just a touch darker than them while the lowlanders note their relative lightness of skin tone. In terms of hair the People have a much greater diversity of hair styles due to multiple traditions, a relatively lax view on policing that sort of thing, and more hair types than most people have. The basically complete absence of major pox scarring and the fact that the People don't have the same lower end in size as most sedentary people is also frequently commented on. Spiritually the People have a whole host of unique prayers and invocations that signify them as being the People rather than the host of unique prayers and invocations of other groups.

do we still have a Death Taboo?

Yes, there is a general taboo around handling the dead, especially outside your family, and it is forbidden to anyone not assigned by the shamans to handle any dead body showing actual signs of decomposition.

What does the Ymaryn Art look like? Can you point us to real life approximate examples in order to help visualization?

What are the specifics of an average Ymaryn's physical appearance? Are there differences between a full blooded Stallion Marcher and a Southerner?

What types of clothing do they wear in recent times? What types of designs are stitched into it?

Can you share with us any pieces of apparel or adornment that are specific to the Blackbirds and/or Carrion Eaters?

How do our women accessorize? How do our men accessorize?

E: What does an average home look like in Valleyhome? What does the average home look like in a non-city locale? What is the most prevalent shape in their overall architecture?

Ymaryn art tends towards the abstract with lots of knot work and geometric shapes. A common motiff is to take a serene geometric shape or symbol and surround or intertwine it with more organic seeming lines with curves and branches.

Clothing is primarily linen or wool tunics and either breeches or kilts depending on environment and local gender norms, with jackets, ponchos and the like depending on weather. The People make use of dyes other than the snail red-violet, but they are mostly more muted reds, blues, and blacks from plant and mineral sources. They make extensive use of decorations like necklaces, braclets, and pins to demonstrate various forms of success awarded to them by superiors and the community, forming an elaborate form of social communication. Wearing an unearned badge tends to earn a major beating at the least. Tattooing is also used, although it has a much more pragmatic purpose in the eyes of the People in that they are believed to have an influence on the flow of spiritual energies within the body. A warrior might have a sort of sunburst tattoo over their heart to strengthen their constitution, although this is believed to also make them dangerously hotblooded so they might also introduce symbols of roots and ice around their skull and head to help them stay calm and grounded, if also slowing down their wits outside of battle. For this reason, while ritual tattooing is done, tattoos are seen of as being primarily medical in nature.

Aside from their masks, the most quintessential Blackbird regalia are their leafy cloaks and other such camouflage items, while for the Carrion Eaters they carry around surgical tools and little dolls with wound markings to serve as shorthand for what treatments to apply when they are in a hurry and need to consult their notes quickly. People find these intensely creepy and there are all sorts of stories about what they actually do, and the Carrion Eaters sometimes encourage them.

Both women and men tend to accessorize by doing their hair, with many different styles and objects used to tie and decorate hair.

The average home in Valleyhome is a three story complex in a U or O shape, made primarily of mudbrick and adobe with wooden support structures. The first floor is the primary economic area, centered around the courtyard area, while the second floor is the living and sleeping area with the top floor being for long term storage/extra sleeping space and more perishable items being stored in a cellar where it is cooler. Outside the major population centres two story homes holding maybe three generations and clustered along family lines tend to be more typical.
 
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Most of the other major settled groups are of the opinion that the Xohyssiri are an odd lot who have lots of good stuff and are generally rather generous, but seem to prefer to keep to themselves. There's also the general opinion that they're kind of weak since they don't engage in much fighting, but they're probably strong enough to make fighting in the hills a pain, and while there's good stuff beyond the threat of another rival taking a swing before you've made it to the good stuff means that if they're not going to cause trouble you might as well leave them alone for the time being.

You mean, the Ymaryn, not the Xohyssiri?

So we have good stuff that people want, but they are primarily worried about some other rival taking our stuff before having a swing at it? Yike. We really do need to wall up our settlements.
 
Each other the other major kingdom has at least two major holy sites that you know about, they likely have many other minor ones.

Most of the other major settled groups are of the opinion that the Xohyssiri are an odd lot who have lots of good stuff and are generally rather generous, but seem to prefer to keep to themselves. There's also the general opinion that they're kind of weak since they don't engage in much fighting, but they're probably strong enough to make fighting in the hills a pain, and while there's good stuff beyond the threat of another rival taking a swing before you've made it to the good stuff means that if they're not going to cause trouble you might as well leave them alone for the time being.

There is currently a significant amount of questioning of how exactly the spirits work. A sort of proto-theology is started to bubble away in the background. Major changes are unlikely to crystallize before the temple or library are completed though.

The People have about average skin tones for their neighbours, but they also have a wide array of neighbours and a lot of internal mixing so everyone thinks that they look just a bit exotic in terms of skin and hair tones. The nomads think that they look just a touch darker than them while the lowlanders note their relative lightness of skin tone. In terms of hair the People have a much greater diversity of hair styles due to multiple traditions, a relatively lax view on policing that sort of thing, and more hair types than most people have. The basically complete absence of major pox scarring and the fact that the People don't have the same lower end in size as most sedentary people is also frequently commented on. Spiritually the People have a whole host of unique prayers and invocations that signify them as being the People rather than the host of unique prayers and invocations of other groups.



Yes, there is a general taboo around handling the dead, especially outside your family, and it is forbidden to anyone not assigned by the shamans to handle any dead body showing actual signs of decomposition.



Ymaryn art tends towards the abstract with lots of knot work and geometric shapes. A common motiff is to take a serene geometric shape or symbol and surround or intertwine it with more organic seeming lines with curves and branches.

Clothing is primarily linen or wool tunics and either breeches or kilts depending on environment and local gender norms, with jackets, ponchos and the like depending on weather. The People make use of dyes other than the snail red-violet, but they are mostly more muted reds, blues, and blacks from plant and mineral sources. They make extensive use of decorations like necklaces, braclets, and pins to demonstrate various forms of success awarded to them by superiors and the community, forming an elaborate form of social communication. Wearing an unearned badge tends to earn a major beating at the least. Tattooing is also used, although it has a much more pragmatic purpose in the eyes of the People in that they are believed to have an influence on the flow of spiritual energies within the body. A warrior might have a sort of sunburst tattoo over their heart to strengthen their constitution, although this is believed to also make them dangerously hotblooded so they might also introduce symbols of roots and ice around their skull and head to help them stay calm and grounded, if also slowing down their wits outside of battle. For this reason, while ritual tattooing is done, tattoos are seen of as being primarily medical in nature.

Aside from their masks, the most quintessential Blackbird regalia are their leafy cloaks and other such camouflage items, while for the Carrion Eaters they carry around surgical tools and little dolls with wound markings to serve as shorthand for what treatments to apply when they are in a hurry and need to consult their notes quickly. People find these intensely creepy and there are all sorts of stories about what they actually do, and the Carrion Eaters sometimes encourage them.

Both women and men tend to accessorize by doing their hair, with many different styles and objects used to tie and decorate hair.

The average home in Valleyhome is a three story complex in a U or O shape, made primarily of mudbrick and adobe with wooden support structures. The first floor is the primary economic area, centered around the courtyard area, while the second floor is the living and sleeping area with the top floor being for long term storage/extra sleeping space and more perishable items being stored in a cellar where it is cooler. Outside the major population centres two story homes holding maybe three generations and clustered along family lines tend to be more typical.
@Academia Nut, you should put this in the Informational threadmarks.
 
Looks like we will need to teach the filthy lowlanders a lesson in the future.

Also we need a lot more walls and forests...
 
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