- Location
- Australia
Don't let Necratoid hear you say that, otherwise he'll call you an sjw and accuse you of forcing your modern opinions where they don't belong.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
Okay, and analysis:
Diplomacy 14 (overflowing) [+1]->12 [+1]
We took 2 Diplomacy damage, still full up though.
Just too damned rich.
Economy 7->9->7
-Main Grand Sacrifice -3
-Expand Warriors -2
-More Blackbirds -1
-Expand Econ +4
-Iron Equilibrium +4
-New March -2
Business as usual.
Also Expand Economy is utter bullshit now
Martial Martial 5 {7} (+1)->15 {18} (over limit)->10(12)
-War Mission cashout +1
-Expand Warriors +3
-Blackbirds +2
-Iron Equilibrium +4
-New March -5
Dang, did not account for Iron hitting equilibrium here.
Stability -2->1 (confident)
-Restore Order -1+2 = +1
-Grand Sacrifice +2
Got mostly what we expected.
Could be better, but it wasn't worse, so I'll take it.
Art 6->7
Overflow continues to pour in.
Mysticism 4->3
Blackbirds ate one point.
We got just barely enough at present for the task while on Balanced.
A dour folk indeed.
*Idly wonders how Honor of Elites would translate to prostitution*
I probably should go back and check if we can trace their Mysticism and Art levels at some point.
It'd be a nasty surprise given our powerful bows and large numbers, though expect everyone else to copy it soon after we use it. The counter to it is shieldwalls...though not against iron arrowheads and our compound bows, which will punch through most light shields and helmets just fine.
Oh and added bonus: Volley fire strongly favors fortifications and organized settlements. Where your archers have the exact pull strength and angle to hit recorded for every inch of ground. Changes the ratio needed to run a siege ladder rather amazingly.
More Expand Army would help, but even after the March we're too close to cap unless we start shipping people over.
So our first mine paid out...12 Econ 6 Martial from the transition on it's own, costing 4 Econ to start. The second will be less powerful, but still huge. You could power entire golden ages on the things.
Also, with copper tools and bronze, I expect them to show up with hand/horse carried battering rams next time.
Even if they'd probably turn around and raid us evenutally. Peace now is good.
I'll leave Balanced Policy on. Southshore has free rein to Salt Gift, Trade Mission or build walls as needed to keep them off.
Diplomacy 14 (overflowing) [+1]->12 [+1]
We took 2 Diplomacy damage, still full up though.
Just too damned rich.
Economy 7->9->7
-Main Grand Sacrifice -3
-Expand Warriors -2
-More Blackbirds -1
-Expand Econ +4
-Iron Equilibrium +4
-New March -2
Business as usual.
Also Expand Economy is utter bullshit now
Martial Martial 5 {7} (+1)->15 {18} (over limit)->10(12)
-War Mission cashout +1
-Expand Warriors +3
-Blackbirds +2
-Iron Equilibrium +4
-New March -5
Dang, did not account for Iron hitting equilibrium here.
Stability -2->1 (confident)
-Restore Order -1+2 = +1
-Grand Sacrifice +2
Got mostly what we expected.
Could be better, but it wasn't worse, so I'll take it.
Art 6->7
Overflow continues to pour in.
Mysticism 4->3
Blackbirds ate one point.
We got just barely enough at present for the task while on Balanced.
No change here, but it amuses me that while pretty much EVERY trade has advanced...our entertainers are mostly just the iron age equivalent of garage bands and street buskers.
A dour folk indeed.
*Idly wonders how Honor of Elites would translate to prostitution*
And we have volley fire, the thing which changes Archery from "threat" to "terror"
They should be at Econ 5 Martial 6(7) now, and will likely pad out their base numbers now that they don't urgently need shitloads of chariots. Probably would look for iron deposits in the March too.
I probably should go back and check if we can trace their Mysticism and Art levels at some point.
Works out for now. Though now we have lots of well armed angry adults instead.
And we obtained Volley Fire. One of the core killer applications of archery in warfare, and what changed it from skirmishing and harassment tool to a deadly hail
It'd be a nasty surprise given our powerful bows and large numbers, though expect everyone else to copy it soon after we use it. The counter to it is shieldwalls...though not against iron arrowheads and our compound bows, which will punch through most light shields and helmets just fine.
Oh and added bonus: Volley fire strongly favors fortifications and organized settlements. Where your archers have the exact pull strength and angle to hit recorded for every inch of ground. Changes the ratio needed to run a siege ladder rather amazingly.
Progress towards evolving Quality of it's own!
More Expand Army would help, but even after the March we're too close to cap unless we start shipping people over.
And iron grows. Iron picks really do make a dramatic difference in getting rock out of the ground compared to copper and stone. The next Iron mine won't have a big startup cost
So our first mine paid out...12 Econ 6 Martial from the transition on it's own, costing 4 Econ to start. The second will be less powerful, but still huge. You could power entire golden ages on the things.
And now we know where NomadSon went. The Metal Workers didn't expect to get reamed so hard, and now the nomads will be grabbing metal weapons for the next go around. Fortunately that'd take them a few turns, and with a nonzero chance that they might simply go native and permanently settle there.
Also, with copper tools and bronze, I expect them to show up with hand/horse carried battering rams next time.
Good thing we don't need the imported copper anymore, or it'd have hurt.
Definitely want these guys. Nomads with trade ties to us are nomads who have incentive to fight other nomads to preserve access to salt, copper and dye.
Even if they'd probably turn around and raid us evenutally. Peace now is good.
Lowlands continue to clusterfuck. The Thunder Horse are gaining momentum however.
So...they became the Spirit Talkers?
Wise move overall. Hopefully they can hold onto things.
Of course. They're doing border friction now. We can diplomacy to buy time, or we can fortify Southshore so we can deal with the problem better.
I'll leave Balanced Policy on. Southshore has free rein to Salt Gift, Trade Mission or build walls as needed to keep them off.
And here we see Shamans being drawn from the general populace and non-written knowledge records have changed things dramatically. The Shamans drawn from commoner backgrounds retained their beliefs and passed it on ignoring what they were taught.
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Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
You missed "yeomanry" in warriors under social concepts, that's new too, and i think its the bit in the update about the increased use of full time farmers in the militia with heavier training than beforeOkay, and analysis:
Diplomacy 14 (overflowing) [+1]->12 [+1]
We took 2 Diplomacy damage, still full up though.
Just too damned rich.
Economy 7->9->7
-Main Grand Sacrifice -3
-Expand Warriors -2
-More Blackbirds -1
-Expand Econ +4
-Iron Equilibrium +4
-New March -2
Business as usual.
Also Expand Economy is utter bullshit now
Martial Martial 5 {7} (+1)->15 {18} (over limit)->10(12)
-War Mission cashout +1
-Expand Warriors +3
-Blackbirds +2
-Iron Equilibrium +4
-New March -5
Dang, did not account for Iron hitting equilibrium here.
Stability -2->1 (confident)
-Restore Order -1+2 = +1
-Grand Sacrifice +2
Got mostly what we expected.
Could be better, but it wasn't worse, so I'll take it.
Art 6->7
Overflow continues to pour in.
Mysticism 4->3
Blackbirds ate one point.
We got just barely enough at present for the task while on Balanced.
No change here, but it amuses me that while pretty much EVERY trade has advanced...our entertainers are mostly just the iron age equivalent of garage bands and street buskers.
A dour folk indeed.
*Idly wonders how Honor of Elites would translate to prostitution*
And we have volley fire, the thing which changes Archery from "threat" to "terror"
They should be at Econ 5 Martial 6(7) now, and will likely pad out their base numbers now that they don't urgently need shitloads of chariots. Probably would look for iron deposits in the March too.
I probably should go back and check if we can trace their Mysticism and Art levels at some point.
Works out for now. Though now we have lots of well armed angry adults instead.
And we obtained Volley Fire. One of the core killer applications of archery in warfare, and what changed it from skirmishing and harassment tool to a deadly hail
It'd be a nasty surprise given our powerful bows and large numbers, though expect everyone else to copy it soon after we use it. The counter to it is shieldwalls...though not against iron arrowheads and our compound bows, which will punch through most light shields and helmets just fine.
Oh and added bonus: Volley fire strongly favors fortifications and organized settlements. Where your archers have the exact pull strength and angle to hit recorded for every inch of ground. Changes the ratio needed to run a siege ladder rather amazingly.
Progress towards evolving Quality of it's own!
More Expand Army would help, but even after the March we're too close to cap unless we start shipping people over.
And iron grows. Iron picks really do make a dramatic difference in getting rock out of the ground compared to copper and stone. The next Iron mine won't have a big startup cost
So our first mine paid out...12 Econ 6 Martial from the transition on it's own, costing 4 Econ to start. The second will be less powerful, but still huge. You could power entire golden ages on the things.
And now we know where NomadSon went. The Metal Workers didn't expect to get reamed so hard, and now the nomads will be grabbing metal weapons for the next go around. Fortunately that'd take them a few turns, and with a nonzero chance that they might simply go native and permanently settle there.
Also, with copper tools and bronze, I expect them to show up with hand/horse carried battering rams next time.
Good thing we don't need the imported copper anymore, or it'd have hurt.
Definitely want these guys. Nomads with trade ties to us are nomads who have incentive to fight other nomads to preserve access to salt, copper and dye.
Even if they'd probably turn around and raid us evenutally. Peace now is good.
Lowlands continue to clusterfuck. The Thunder Horse are gaining momentum however.
So...they became the Spirit Talkers?
Wise move overall. Hopefully they can hold onto things.
Of course. They're doing border friction now. We can diplomacy to buy time, or we can fortify Southshore so we can deal with the problem better.
I'll leave Balanced Policy on. Southshore has free rein to Salt Gift, Trade Mission or build walls as needed to keep them off.
And here we see Shamans being drawn from the general populace and non-written knowledge records have changed things dramatically. The Shamans drawn from commoner backgrounds retained their beliefs and passed it on ignoring what they were taught.
- Location
- Illinois
I thought that the MWs didn't have bronze yet? They were interested in some samples when we last visited them, but they still hadn't worked it out.
- Location
- Hell
And why would we want to? We get nothing out of war, no econ or anything since we don't take slaves.
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The "Eastern Copper" is brass, anyway, from the discussion back when we found out about it when we sent the trade mission to the dead priests whose x-name i can't remember...
Edit: I'll note that veekie was also convinced that the Nomads going to get weapons was going to be "suddenly all bronze weapons" and apparently they didn't have anything that stood out, or even any more mundane improvements on a widespread scale. People have been convinced that almost every news about metal is bronze for dozens of turns. I wouldn't be surprised if the MW or the Hathatyn or a farther away nation showed up with bronze sooner rather than later, but its not some foregone conclusion. If anything the bigger issue to me is if others figure out iron working off of us...especially since while we'd have comparable or even better weapons right away, they could, you know, conquer all of their neighbors and get giant before turning on us again.
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- Location
- Illinois
We do get tech advances, which is one of the stated benefits of a march. By having our march constantly fight nomads, they will develop techniques that we can use against both the nomads and the lowlanders, without having to fight ourselves. It also keeps the nomad's targets firmly on areas that are meant to handle nomad attacks.
It also gives our warriors an outlet if we ever exceed our martial cap again.
How does brass compare to iron anyways?
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'm no expert, but again the discussion at the time suggested "not very useful for weapons, mostly useful for decorations and maybe some tools/mechanisms/etc", but i think there was some "i guess you could make a mace if you didn't have any better metal?" Certainly inferior to iron.
- Location
- Hell
Again good reason to have a March, nothing that means we need to stretch out our border in that direction when we plan to expand eastward.
- Location
- Panama City
Well, early iron is actually rather brittle due to notable amounts of impurities, while brass/bronze is rather more refined, so an early bronze weapon actually has a good chance of beating an iron weapon in usability. Bronze is simply a PITA to acquire in large amounts due to tin not being too common, which is where iron shines by being able to not walk two feet before tripping over an iron rock.
- Location
- Panama City
I think plans have shifted to taking over/liberating the Metal Workers. I'd support such a plan due to them having a guaranteed source of metals.
- Location
- Panama City
AN clarified that doing study health+whichever other req also satisfies that individual req. So doing study health+metal knocks both off the list for example.
- Location
- Illinois
Setting up this march makes it so we can easily expand east without having to worry about fortifying the exposed provinces in the west. Let the march do the fortification while we deal with the lowland issues.
Honestly, this new march is strategically better in most ways. It protects our most exposed province, provides a logistical base from which we can hit our most hated nomad foes, and hopefully keep them from becoming a major power, while also allowing us to focus on other matters if needed, since the new march will protect the west on its own. The eastern march would only protect the already fairly well fortified (IIRC) provinces, while shielding new eastern provinces from nomad attacks in the future. But even then, those new provinces would already have some level of defense due to being built in hilly terrain, and thus hampering the nomad's greatest advantage.
Hmmm, missed that since it didn't obviously show up in the narration. Now that I looked over it it's this:
Looking it up, their role is to act as Elite Militia leaders. Proto-sergeants/non-commissioned officers so as to speak.
So now our military organization is:
-Full time elite military forces, trained for a single task and generally deployed on their own.
--Chariot Archers - Biggest bow we have, on the best charioteers, light to no armor. Ride by shooting harassment. Volley usable, but challenging.
--Blackbirds - Masked Ninjas with poisoned arrows.
--Carrion Eaters - I think they come with mask, mace and shield, but unclear
-Full time military forces.
--Charioteers. Just the driver. Wicker armor and a sidearm.
--Macemen(mace, with wicker armor and shield)
--Spearmen(spear, with wicker armor and shield)
--Clubbers(tetsubo with wicker armor)
--Composite Bow Archer
-Full time Militia, part time farmers/hunters.
--Composite Bow Yeomen Archers
-Full time farmers/hunters, part time militia
--Militia Regular Archers
--Militia Spearmen
-Angry Mob
--Militia Assorted(i.e. armed with picks, sickles, slings, and scythes)
Metalworkers have all the tools needed for it, if given sufficient inspiration and motivation.
With angry nomads forcing them, I believe they are likely to be very motivated and inspired. Might even have a few samples of our iron weapons from the group the disappeared chasing nomads, but figuring THAT out would be a bit difficult beyond reforging that into an iron weapon for their chief.
New connections
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] [March] Yes, send out the warriors (-5 Martial, -2 Econ)
[X] [Caravan] Attempt peaceful contact
[X] [Challenge] Survey Lands (-1 Econ, improved odds of success)
As much as nomadic groups infuriated the People, the king remembered the most ancient and sacred tales of hospitality and openness. Even if the newcomers were hostile, they had to offer to meet with them first, even if it might open them up to attack. Fortunately the chiefs on scene were at least of the opinion that they should not attack without the king's approval in this instance, and contact was made with these strangers. Communication was initially difficult, as it turned out that they were so far away that they needed an interpreter who could speak a language that the People needed their own interpreter for. Still, a lack of general hostility was soon established for both sides, and then the trade goods were brought out.
It became apparent to both sides relatively quickly that they were both holding back just how much good stuff they had, and they both knew it, and knew that the other side knew it, mostly from the way they were willing to escalate the trade game of one-up-man-ship coyly but readily. The newcomers were however somewhat surprised by the way that the traders of the People were relatively uninterested in salt - not that they were entirely interested, just that when these traders started setting out small bags of salt they got a far lower response than they clearly expected. However, as they started to escalate, it became clear that while they understood the value of salt they also knew that most outsiders valued it far more than they did.
Thus conversation roundabout came to where these traders had come from, and while the translation issues obviously got in the way, their description was roughly "the dry lands upon north shore of the salty water north of the great mountains", an area that the People hadn't even heard of in myth from any of the peoples they traded with. These people were from an incredibly long way away, the path for them opened up by the incredible destruction wrought in the fight between the people and the tribes who had once been their neighbours. The path would probably close quickly enough, but for the time being there was a tenuous path to a strange world far away.
+1 Diplomacy
Meanwhile, within the People's territory large numbers of young men were told that they could help settle new territory where they would be the progenitors of new clans and where they would be able to fight against the hated enemy of their fathers and grandfathers, all while the within the territory of the People they were checking over the terrain for anything of interest. While for the most part the survey wasn't focused enough to find anything in particular, a new site where a saltern could be easily established was found in Southshore and another band of red stone that could produce iron was found in Redhills, close enough to a major settlement that a new settlement wouldn't need to be founded in order to support a mine.
Challenge Status
You have 3 turns to complete the following:
[Main] Study Metal, [Main] Study Tailings, [Main] Study Health + Metal or Tailings, [Main] Build Mine
One [Main] action and two [Seconday] actions available
[] Art Patronage
[] Black Soil
[] Build Chariots
[] Build Iron Mine
[] Build Wall
[] Build Watchtowers
[] Change Policy
[] Enforce Law
[] Expand Economy
[] Expand Forests
[] Expand Holy Sites
[] Expand Snail Cultivation
[] Expand Warriors
[] Grand Sacrifice
[] Integrate March
[] Improve Annual Festival
[] More Blackbirds
[] More Carrion Eaters
[] More Boats
[] New Settlement
[] New Trails
[] Proclaim Glory
[] Restore Order
[] Sailing Mission
[] Salt Gift
[] Study Forests
[] Study Health
[] Study Metal
[] Study Stars
[] Study Tailings
[] Survey Lands
[] Support Subordinate
[] Trade Mission
-Target Options: Highland Kingdom, Thunder Speakers, Metal Miners, Lowland Minors, Hathatyn, Xohyssiri, Thunder Horse, Eastern Nomads, Into the Wild (Eastern Sea), Into the Wild
[] War Mission
-Target Options: Western Nomads, Eastern Nomads
Provinces for Projects: Valleyhome, Redshore, Stonepen, Sacred Forest, Northshore, Blackriver, Redhills, Southshore
Major Holy Sites: Rainbow Trail, Sacred Forest, Holy Sea, Horse Valley, White Circle, Warrior's Rest, Star Mirror, Sunrise Grove, Skyforest, Bloodgrove, Spiritwell
[X] [Caravan] Attempt peaceful contact
[X] [Challenge] Survey Lands (-1 Econ, improved odds of success)
As much as nomadic groups infuriated the People, the king remembered the most ancient and sacred tales of hospitality and openness. Even if the newcomers were hostile, they had to offer to meet with them first, even if it might open them up to attack. Fortunately the chiefs on scene were at least of the opinion that they should not attack without the king's approval in this instance, and contact was made with these strangers. Communication was initially difficult, as it turned out that they were so far away that they needed an interpreter who could speak a language that the People needed their own interpreter for. Still, a lack of general hostility was soon established for both sides, and then the trade goods were brought out.
It became apparent to both sides relatively quickly that they were both holding back just how much good stuff they had, and they both knew it, and knew that the other side knew it, mostly from the way they were willing to escalate the trade game of one-up-man-ship coyly but readily. The newcomers were however somewhat surprised by the way that the traders of the People were relatively uninterested in salt - not that they were entirely interested, just that when these traders started setting out small bags of salt they got a far lower response than they clearly expected. However, as they started to escalate, it became clear that while they understood the value of salt they also knew that most outsiders valued it far more than they did.
Thus conversation roundabout came to where these traders had come from, and while the translation issues obviously got in the way, their description was roughly "the dry lands upon north shore of the salty water north of the great mountains", an area that the People hadn't even heard of in myth from any of the peoples they traded with. These people were from an incredibly long way away, the path for them opened up by the incredible destruction wrought in the fight between the people and the tribes who had once been their neighbours. The path would probably close quickly enough, but for the time being there was a tenuous path to a strange world far away.
+1 Diplomacy
Meanwhile, within the People's territory large numbers of young men were told that they could help settle new territory where they would be the progenitors of new clans and where they would be able to fight against the hated enemy of their fathers and grandfathers, all while the within the territory of the People they were checking over the terrain for anything of interest. While for the most part the survey wasn't focused enough to find anything in particular, a new site where a saltern could be easily established was found in Southshore and another band of red stone that could produce iron was found in Redhills, close enough to a major settlement that a new settlement wouldn't need to be founded in order to support a mine.
Challenge Status
You have 3 turns to complete the following:
[Main] Study Metal, [Main] Study Tailings, [Main] Study Health + Metal or Tailings, [Main] Build Mine
Art Patronage - Wealth of the first and second kind can be used to create wealth of the third kind to the benefit of all
* S: -1 Econ, +2 Art
* M: -2 Econ, +3 Art, +1 Prestige, potential innovations
Black Soil - Production is now regular and huge amounts of trash are turned to black soil every year, but there's always room for more production [Shapers] [King]
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Econ next turn, additional effects
* M: +1 Econ, additional effects
* used 2 times
Build Chariots - The vehicle of the elite, chariots are the most effective way of waging war the People know. Used: 5 times
* S: -1 Econ, +2 Martial
*M: -2 Econ, +4 Martial, other effects
Build Iron Mine - A location with a viable deposit of ore has been found and a new mine can be constructed in Redhills.
*S: -3 Econ, -1 Stability, Payout of Econ and Martial next turn
*M: -3 Econ, -1 Stability, Payout of Econ and Martial
Build Wall - Long experience with retaining walls has lead to the idea of a settlement wall for protection, and with the ability to more easily work stone the walls grow ever higher (Redhills and Blackmouth heavily walled; Redshore, Northshore, and Stonepen capitals walled; Northshore and Stonepen partially walled elsewhere)
* S: -1 Econ, minor walls
* M: -2 Econ, major walls
Build Watchtowers - Stone and brick towers for warriors to sit in and scan the horizon for trouble, these towers can help stave off raids and improve response against attacks. (Northern provinces have many towers, Redhills has some)
*S: -1 Econ, some watchtowers
*M: -1 Econ, many watchtowers
Change Policy - Adjust the current Policy to one better fitting the situation
*S: Change Policy to one of the available ones listed below
Balanced - Takes whatever actions seem reasonable. Expand Economy is considered a Policy action for interaction with other effects
Defence - Builds walls and watchtowers
Expansion - Builds new settlements, expands economy, expands forests, and can even create new provinces
Infrastructure - Extended projects
Megaproject Support - Provinces can spend actions in support of a megaproject
Offence - Can recruit warriors and specialists, can send war actions against declared enemies
Progress - Takes studying actions and art patronage
Restoration - Takes stability improving actions
Spirits - Expands Holy Sites
Trade - Sends out trade missions, produce art and luxuries
Enforce Law - The king is a servant of the law, and he can use the army to remind people of that fact
* S: 0 to 1 Stability, +1-3 Centralization
* M: 0 to 1 Stability, greater odds of stability gain, +2-3 Centralization
* the more settlements with walls outside of the capital, particularly large walls, the less effective this action is
Expand Economy - Encourage the growth of food producing activities such as farming, pastures, or fishing, depending on where focus is placed
*S: +2 Econ, potential additional effects
* 14 Econ remain before requiring new territory
Expand Forests - The People have knowledge of how to regrow and repair forests, which extends to bringing them to places they have never been, with considerable effort. With charcoal now in higher demand, can also provide a sustainable supply (2/4 currently locked up)
* S: -1 Econ, grows forest, +1 Econ next turn if in settled territory and controlled
* M: -1 Econ, grows forest, +2 Econ next turn if in settled and controlled territory
Expand Holy Sites - The current places dedicated to the spirits and wisdom have accumulated interesting objects and tellers of stories, but they could be made a bit better
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Mysticism
* M: -2 Econ, +2 Mysticism, +1 Art, potential additional effects
Expand Snail Cultivation - While now more reliably grown and harvested, the snail domestication has only managed to hold environmental changes at bay rather than increase production. More investment would increase cultivation
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Diplo
* M: -2 Econ, +3 Diplo, potential additional effects
Expand Warriors - More men can be inducted into the ranks of the warriors every year and not face major food shortfalls
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Martial
* M: -2 Econ, +3 Martial, potential additional effects
Found Colony - When a province gets too distant, sometimes it is best to grant it additional autonomy so that they can get down to the business of working the land and gathering resources without needing to talk to the king about every little thing. Current Target: None
*M: -4 Econ, -2 Martial, founds colony to produce raw resources
Found March - Sometimes you need an extra buffer between you and hostile powers, or a place to stash excess warriors. Current Target: North-East
*M: -5 Martial, -2 Econ, founds march to take independent martial actions
Found Trading Post - When doing long distance trading, sometimes having your own infrastructure in place at the other end can be quite useful. Current Target: None
*M: -5 Diplo, -2 Econ, -2 Martial, founds trading post to generate Diplomacy
Grand Sacrifice - Communal sacrifice is a great way to bring the People together, and to also even out class distinctions. NOTE: Because the People do not use human sacrifice, the Econ costs are especially harsh. Max Stability: Legitimacy
*S: -2 Econ, +1 Stability
*M: -3 Econ, +2 Stability
Integrate March - Better communications and administration means that the Stallion Tribes can be integrated into the People more fully, transitioning from a March to a province
*M: -6 Diplomacy, gain Econ and Martial from integrating March
Improve Annual Festival - A festival for every season, but their expansion can help put the People at ease and teach good practices.
* M: -2 Econ, +1 Stability, +1 Art chance for additional effects
* 2M: -3 Econ, +1 Stability, +3 Art, chance for additional effects
* Max Stability: Legitimacy - 1
More Blackbirds - Elite scouts and woodsmen, the Blackbirds are a potent force, if not exactly mainline fighters. More of them could prove useful
* S: -1 Mysticism, +1 Martial more Blackbirds
* M: -1 Econ, -1 Mysticism, +2 Martial, many more Blackbirds, additional effects
More Carrion Eaters - Keepers of sacred and profane knowledge, the Carrion Eaters thread a dangerous path but bring valuable knowledge for treating wounds and inspiring courage, greatly bolstering the morale of warriors by ensuring them that their companions are not doomed if they fall. More could prove useful.
*S: -1 Mysticism, +1 Martial, more Carrion Eaters
*M: -1 Econ, -1 Mysticism, +2 Martial, many more Carrion Eaters, additional effects
More Boats - The things are expensive but oh so useful, so having more of them will increase your capacity for trade, travel, and fishing
* S: -2 Econ, +1 Econ and +1 Diplo next turn, other potential effects
* M: -2 Econ, +1 Econ end of turn, +1 Econ and Diplo next turn, additional effects, tiny chance of innovation;
* used 4 times
New Settlement - There are a few new sites that could have new settlements placed on them: northern Blackriver, south-eastern Redhills
* S: +1 Econ next turn, increases number of times Expand Econ can be taken
* M: +1 Econ and +1 Mysticism end of turn, increases the number of times Expand Econ can be taken
New Trails - There are many settlements with only marginal trails, so more could be useful
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Centralization, other effects
* M: -1 Econ, +1 Centralization, +1 Diplo, other effects
Proclaim Glory - By using art the King can promote people to trust his decisions; modified by Diplomacy skill
* S: -2 Art, +1 Legitimacy
* M: -3 Art, -1 Econ, +1 Legitimacy, +1 Stability, potential +1 Prestige
* Max Stability: Legitimacy
Restoration of Order - The people are uncertain, and into that uncertainty bad behaviour can flow. Send in the warriors to reassure people and root out corruption and dissent, restoring the proper function of the People. Max Stability: 0 or Legitimacy, whichever is lower
* S: Gain -1 to 2 Stability
* M: Roll twice, take best result
* modified by Administrative skill
Sailing Mission - Boats have proven themselves capable of exploring long distances, so what else might they discover along the shores of the sea?
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, improved odds of success
Salt Gift - With the saltern, the People have access to tremendous amounts of salt, which can be used to awe outsiders
*S: -5 Diplomacy, random amount of Diplomacy, Art, and Prestige generated
*M: -5 Diplomacy, random amount of Diplomacy, Art, and Prestige generated (min. 1 of each) and the possibility of Mysticism generation
Study Forests - The holy site within the sacred forest is the repository of lore on the forests and the things within them, but could the shamans learn more? 1 Use
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, improved odds of success
Study Health - What secrets of nature can be used to improve the health of the People?
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, improved odds of success
Study Metal - Iron and copper, gold and silver, what other secrets are hidden in metal and stone?
* S: -1 Mysticism, tiny chance of new insights
* M: -1 Econ, -2 Mysticism, -1 Stability, improved chance of new insights
Study Stars - What secrets do the heavens hold when you study the stars and their motions carefully? 7 Uses, 0/4 Uses in a Row
*S: +1 Mysticism, tiny chance of new insights
Cannot be used as a Main action
Study Tailings - A few generations of copper mining has built up a number of tailings pits, might there be any new insights within?
*S: -1 Mysticism, tiny chance of new insights
* M: -1 Econ, -2 Mysticism, -1 Stability, improved chance of new insights
Support Subordinate - Send resources over to a subordinate state to help prop them up.
*S: Transfer 1 Econ and Martial
*M: Transfer 2 Econ and Martial
Survey Lands - Foreigners have discovered strange materials within their lands, are these materials perhaps also found within the lands of the People?
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, improved odds of success; used 1 time
Trade Mission - Sending a major caravan to another large group can bring new opportunities and find out more about the outside world
* S: -1 Diplo, additional effects depending on target, +1-2 Diplo end of of turn;
* M: -1 Diplo, -1 Econ, additional effects depending on target, +1-2 Diplo end of turn, +1-2 Diplo next turn
War Mission - You can send raiding parties against groups that have declared themselves hostile. Can only declare war if you have a valid casus belli (currently only if someone declares war first)
* S: Potential loss of Martial, can prevent Econ and Diplo damage when being attacked, can damage enemy Martial and Diplo
* M: Probable loss of Martial, can prevent Econ and Diplo damage when being attacked, can damage enemy Martial, Diplo, and Econ, always has a mid-turn decision point
Extended Projects- Extended Projects are major infrastructure projects that take more than a single Main action to complete but aren't as all consuming as megaprojects
Saltern - Northshore Saltern Expansion (0/10), Southshore Saltern (0/6). Each {S} committed consumes 2 Econ for 2 Progress. Completion gives additional Diplomacy and every 2 salterns or expansions increases the per turn Diplomacy by +1
Aqueduct - Redshore (0/8), Lower Valleyhome (0/4), Stonepen (0/6), Blackmouth (0/8), Sacred Forest (0/4), Redhills (0/6). Each {S} committed consumes 2 Econ for 2 Progress. Completion adds +4 Econ Expansion and can allow for the formation of another True City
Reminder: 2 {S} applied to the same project = 1 {M}
Additionally: 2 Mains may have non-linear effects
Mega-Projects - Mega-Projects can require many generations to complete, take an unknown amount of time to do so, and drain Econ while active, but can produce massive benefits once complete. Once chosen, the occupy the Main Focus slot until either completed or stopped early. Early stopping once started does not refund any of the investments and increases social strife. To reduce confusion, mega-projects are not listed as part of the voting project list and must be "written-in".
Grand Palace - The king's palace is not just a dwelling but a place of government, a stockpile for the People's needs, and a symbol of strength to outsiders (5-7? action commitment, -1 Econ and Art per action)
Great Temple - With the ability to cut larger and larger blocks of stone and still shape it precisely, fantastically larger complexes to the gods and spirits can be raised (5-7? action commitment, -1 Econ and Art per action)
Great Dam - The river can run wild and dangerous when the rains come strong, but could it not be controlled by the same principles by which the water on the hills is channelled and contained, merely on a larger scale? (5-7? action commitment, -1 Econ per action)
The Library - The People need to store ideas, not records [Observance] [King] (4-6? Action commitment, -1 Mysticism and -1 Art per action, 2 Econ total commitment)
The Mountain - What greater display of strength can the People make than to pile stone upon stone so as to create an artificial mountain that all can see? [King] (8-14? Action commitment, -1 Econ per action)
Place to the Stars - The shamans have noticed deeper patterns among the stars than they ever imagined, and setting up long term memories of where things should be could be intensely useful, if also labour intensive to get sufficiently durable markers in place (7-10? action commitment, -1 Econ per action, some Mysticism commitment)
[Stewards] special kicker: Pay 1 Stability to double the effort on a megaproject action, consuming twice the required per turn resources but advancing the job faster. If taking a second main action on a megaproject, requires additional Stability payment to double that as well.
* S: -1 Econ, +2 Art
* M: -2 Econ, +3 Art, +1 Prestige, potential innovations
Black Soil - Production is now regular and huge amounts of trash are turned to black soil every year, but there's always room for more production [Shapers] [King]
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Econ next turn, additional effects
* M: +1 Econ, additional effects
* used 2 times
Build Chariots - The vehicle of the elite, chariots are the most effective way of waging war the People know. Used: 5 times
* S: -1 Econ, +2 Martial
*M: -2 Econ, +4 Martial, other effects
Build Iron Mine - A location with a viable deposit of ore has been found and a new mine can be constructed in Redhills.
*S: -3 Econ, -1 Stability, Payout of Econ and Martial next turn
*M: -3 Econ, -1 Stability, Payout of Econ and Martial
Build Wall - Long experience with retaining walls has lead to the idea of a settlement wall for protection, and with the ability to more easily work stone the walls grow ever higher (Redhills and Blackmouth heavily walled; Redshore, Northshore, and Stonepen capitals walled; Northshore and Stonepen partially walled elsewhere)
* S: -1 Econ, minor walls
* M: -2 Econ, major walls
Build Watchtowers - Stone and brick towers for warriors to sit in and scan the horizon for trouble, these towers can help stave off raids and improve response against attacks. (Northern provinces have many towers, Redhills has some)
*S: -1 Econ, some watchtowers
*M: -1 Econ, many watchtowers
Change Policy - Adjust the current Policy to one better fitting the situation
*S: Change Policy to one of the available ones listed below
Balanced - Takes whatever actions seem reasonable. Expand Economy is considered a Policy action for interaction with other effects
Defence - Builds walls and watchtowers
Expansion - Builds new settlements, expands economy, expands forests, and can even create new provinces
Infrastructure - Extended projects
Megaproject Support - Provinces can spend actions in support of a megaproject
Offence - Can recruit warriors and specialists, can send war actions against declared enemies
Progress - Takes studying actions and art patronage
Restoration - Takes stability improving actions
Spirits - Expands Holy Sites
Trade - Sends out trade missions, produce art and luxuries
Enforce Law - The king is a servant of the law, and he can use the army to remind people of that fact
* S: 0 to 1 Stability, +1-3 Centralization
* M: 0 to 1 Stability, greater odds of stability gain, +2-3 Centralization
* the more settlements with walls outside of the capital, particularly large walls, the less effective this action is
Expand Economy - Encourage the growth of food producing activities such as farming, pastures, or fishing, depending on where focus is placed
*S: +2 Econ, potential additional effects
* 14 Econ remain before requiring new territory
Expand Forests - The People have knowledge of how to regrow and repair forests, which extends to bringing them to places they have never been, with considerable effort. With charcoal now in higher demand, can also provide a sustainable supply (2/4 currently locked up)
* S: -1 Econ, grows forest, +1 Econ next turn if in settled territory and controlled
* M: -1 Econ, grows forest, +2 Econ next turn if in settled and controlled territory
Expand Holy Sites - The current places dedicated to the spirits and wisdom have accumulated interesting objects and tellers of stories, but they could be made a bit better
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Mysticism
* M: -2 Econ, +2 Mysticism, +1 Art, potential additional effects
Expand Snail Cultivation - While now more reliably grown and harvested, the snail domestication has only managed to hold environmental changes at bay rather than increase production. More investment would increase cultivation
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Diplo
* M: -2 Econ, +3 Diplo, potential additional effects
Expand Warriors - More men can be inducted into the ranks of the warriors every year and not face major food shortfalls
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Martial
* M: -2 Econ, +3 Martial, potential additional effects
*M: -4 Econ, -2 Martial, founds colony to produce raw resources
*M: -5 Martial, -2 Econ, founds march to take independent martial actions
*M: -5 Diplo, -2 Econ, -2 Martial, founds trading post to generate Diplomacy
Grand Sacrifice - Communal sacrifice is a great way to bring the People together, and to also even out class distinctions. NOTE: Because the People do not use human sacrifice, the Econ costs are especially harsh. Max Stability: Legitimacy
*S: -2 Econ, +1 Stability
*M: -3 Econ, +2 Stability
Integrate March - Better communications and administration means that the Stallion Tribes can be integrated into the People more fully, transitioning from a March to a province
*M: -6 Diplomacy, gain Econ and Martial from integrating March
Improve Annual Festival - A festival for every season, but their expansion can help put the People at ease and teach good practices.
* M: -2 Econ, +1 Stability, +1 Art chance for additional effects
* 2M: -3 Econ, +1 Stability, +3 Art, chance for additional effects
* Max Stability: Legitimacy - 1
More Blackbirds - Elite scouts and woodsmen, the Blackbirds are a potent force, if not exactly mainline fighters. More of them could prove useful
* S: -1 Mysticism, +1 Martial more Blackbirds
* M: -1 Econ, -1 Mysticism, +2 Martial, many more Blackbirds, additional effects
More Carrion Eaters - Keepers of sacred and profane knowledge, the Carrion Eaters thread a dangerous path but bring valuable knowledge for treating wounds and inspiring courage, greatly bolstering the morale of warriors by ensuring them that their companions are not doomed if they fall. More could prove useful.
*S: -1 Mysticism, +1 Martial, more Carrion Eaters
*M: -1 Econ, -1 Mysticism, +2 Martial, many more Carrion Eaters, additional effects
More Boats - The things are expensive but oh so useful, so having more of them will increase your capacity for trade, travel, and fishing
* S: -2 Econ, +1 Econ and +1 Diplo next turn, other potential effects
* M: -2 Econ, +1 Econ end of turn, +1 Econ and Diplo next turn, additional effects, tiny chance of innovation;
* used 4 times
New Settlement - There are a few new sites that could have new settlements placed on them: northern Blackriver, south-eastern Redhills
* S: +1 Econ next turn, increases number of times Expand Econ can be taken
* M: +1 Econ and +1 Mysticism end of turn, increases the number of times Expand Econ can be taken
New Trails - There are many settlements with only marginal trails, so more could be useful
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Centralization, other effects
* M: -1 Econ, +1 Centralization, +1 Diplo, other effects
Proclaim Glory - By using art the King can promote people to trust his decisions; modified by Diplomacy skill
* S: -2 Art, +1 Legitimacy
* M: -3 Art, -1 Econ, +1 Legitimacy, +1 Stability, potential +1 Prestige
* Max Stability: Legitimacy
* S: Gain -1 to 2 Stability
* M: Roll twice, take best result
* modified by Administrative skill
Sailing Mission - Boats have proven themselves capable of exploring long distances, so what else might they discover along the shores of the sea?
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, improved odds of success
Salt Gift - With the saltern, the People have access to tremendous amounts of salt, which can be used to awe outsiders
*S: -5 Diplomacy, random amount of Diplomacy, Art, and Prestige generated
*M: -5 Diplomacy, random amount of Diplomacy, Art, and Prestige generated (min. 1 of each) and the possibility of Mysticism generation
Study Forests - The holy site within the sacred forest is the repository of lore on the forests and the things within them, but could the shamans learn more? 1 Use
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, improved odds of success
Study Health - What secrets of nature can be used to improve the health of the People?
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, improved odds of success
Study Metal - Iron and copper, gold and silver, what other secrets are hidden in metal and stone?
* S: -1 Mysticism, tiny chance of new insights
* M: -1 Econ, -2 Mysticism, -1 Stability, improved chance of new insights
Study Stars - What secrets do the heavens hold when you study the stars and their motions carefully? 7 Uses, 0/4 Uses in a Row
*S: +1 Mysticism, tiny chance of new insights
Cannot be used as a Main action
Study Tailings - A few generations of copper mining has built up a number of tailings pits, might there be any new insights within?
*S: -1 Mysticism, tiny chance of new insights
* M: -1 Econ, -2 Mysticism, -1 Stability, improved chance of new insights
Support Subordinate - Send resources over to a subordinate state to help prop them up.
*S: Transfer 1 Econ and Martial
*M: Transfer 2 Econ and Martial
Survey Lands - Foreigners have discovered strange materials within their lands, are these materials perhaps also found within the lands of the People?
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, improved odds of success; used 1 time
Trade Mission - Sending a major caravan to another large group can bring new opportunities and find out more about the outside world
* S: -1 Diplo, additional effects depending on target, +1-2 Diplo end of of turn;
* M: -1 Diplo, -1 Econ, additional effects depending on target, +1-2 Diplo end of turn, +1-2 Diplo next turn
War Mission - You can send raiding parties against groups that have declared themselves hostile. Can only declare war if you have a valid casus belli (currently only if someone declares war first)
* S: Potential loss of Martial, can prevent Econ and Diplo damage when being attacked, can damage enemy Martial and Diplo
* M: Probable loss of Martial, can prevent Econ and Diplo damage when being attacked, can damage enemy Martial, Diplo, and Econ, always has a mid-turn decision point
Extended Projects- Extended Projects are major infrastructure projects that take more than a single Main action to complete but aren't as all consuming as megaprojects
Saltern - Northshore Saltern Expansion (0/10), Southshore Saltern (0/6). Each {S} committed consumes 2 Econ for 2 Progress. Completion gives additional Diplomacy and every 2 salterns or expansions increases the per turn Diplomacy by +1
Aqueduct - Redshore (0/8), Lower Valleyhome (0/4), Stonepen (0/6), Blackmouth (0/8), Sacred Forest (0/4), Redhills (0/6). Each {S} committed consumes 2 Econ for 2 Progress. Completion adds +4 Econ Expansion and can allow for the formation of another True City
Reminder: 2 {S} applied to the same project = 1 {M}
Additionally: 2 Mains may have non-linear effects
Mega-Projects - Mega-Projects can require many generations to complete, take an unknown amount of time to do so, and drain Econ while active, but can produce massive benefits once complete. Once chosen, the occupy the Main Focus slot until either completed or stopped early. Early stopping once started does not refund any of the investments and increases social strife. To reduce confusion, mega-projects are not listed as part of the voting project list and must be "written-in".
Grand Palace - The king's palace is not just a dwelling but a place of government, a stockpile for the People's needs, and a symbol of strength to outsiders (5-7? action commitment, -1 Econ and Art per action)
Great Temple - With the ability to cut larger and larger blocks of stone and still shape it precisely, fantastically larger complexes to the gods and spirits can be raised (5-7? action commitment, -1 Econ and Art per action)
Great Dam - The river can run wild and dangerous when the rains come strong, but could it not be controlled by the same principles by which the water on the hills is channelled and contained, merely on a larger scale? (5-7? action commitment, -1 Econ per action)
The Library - The People need to store ideas, not records [Observance] [King] (4-6? Action commitment, -1 Mysticism and -1 Art per action, 2 Econ total commitment)
The Mountain - What greater display of strength can the People make than to pile stone upon stone so as to create an artificial mountain that all can see? [King] (8-14? Action commitment, -1 Econ per action)
Place to the Stars - The shamans have noticed deeper patterns among the stars than they ever imagined, and setting up long term memories of where things should be could be intensely useful, if also labour intensive to get sufficiently durable markers in place (7-10? action commitment, -1 Econ per action, some Mysticism commitment)
[Stewards] special kicker: Pay 1 Stability to double the effort on a megaproject action, consuming twice the required per turn resources but advancing the job faster. If taking a second main action on a megaproject, requires additional Stability payment to double that as well.
[] Art Patronage
[] Black Soil
[] Build Chariots
[] Build Iron Mine
[] Build Wall
[] Build Watchtowers
[] Change Policy
[] Enforce Law
[] Expand Economy
[] Expand Forests
[] Expand Holy Sites
[] Expand Snail Cultivation
[] Expand Warriors
[] Grand Sacrifice
[] Integrate March
[] Improve Annual Festival
[] More Blackbirds
[] More Carrion Eaters
[] More Boats
[] New Settlement
[] New Trails
[] Proclaim Glory
[] Sailing Mission
[] Salt Gift
[] Study Forests
[] Study Health
[] Study Metal
[] Study Stars
[] Study Tailings
[] Survey Lands
[] Support Subordinate
[] Trade Mission
-Target Options: Highland Kingdom, Thunder Speakers, Metal Miners, Lowland Minors, Hathatyn, Xohyssiri, Thunder Horse, Eastern Nomads, Into the Wild (Eastern Sea), Into the Wild
[] War Mission
-Target Options: Western Nomads, Eastern Nomads
Provinces for Projects: Valleyhome, Redshore, Stonepen, Sacred Forest, Northshore, Blackriver, Redhills, Southshore
Major Holy Sites: Rainbow Trail, Sacred Forest, Holy Sea, Horse Valley, White Circle, Warrior's Rest, Star Mirror, Sunrise Grove, Skyforest, Bloodgrove, Spiritwell
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
Second highest in your neighbourhood, with the highest being the Thunder Horse for their large collection of vassals.
About the same as yours.
Ah, cool, thought that was typo, but yes, they are closer to the people who lived there before Proto-Indo-Europeans rolled into the territory.
- Location
- United States of America, Michigan
Also saving the metal workers might give us some of their techs we don't have saving us some study metal actions.
- Location
- Illinois
- Location
- Austria
Good.
[X] [Main] Build Iron Mine
[X] [Secondary] Change Policy - Balanced
[X] [Secondary] Grand Sacrifice
Like....we really need that extra Stability.
- Location
- Staring into the void
[X] [Main] Build Iron Mine
[X] [Secondary] Change Policy - Balanced
[X] [Secondary] Expand Forrest
[X] [Secondary] Change Policy - Balanced
[X] [Secondary] Expand Forrest