The Thunder Horse eliminated the Thunder Speakers' warrior caste here:
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Really they had no other matrix of understanding than religious so they did what worked.
Our spiritualism and animism is really helping us out. Animism if you look at it right is actually similar to modern physics. Things happen because unseen forces make them happen. It's just in animism's case it's spirits instead of entropy and the fundamental forces. We also just got astrology, which has a lot of space for philosophical thought wrapped up in it.
Yeah our shamans and priests are very scholarly and practical minded. They are very carefully watching and noting what they see. They may not be asking a lot of questions yet, but that's what this event chain is about teaching them.
What I meant was the Eastern Thunder Horses own warrior caste. If veekie meant the Thunder Speakers warrior caste then whoopsies.
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
I wonder if we'll eventually unlock study wetlands to create a complete wastewater treatment ecosystem.
The way I see it, the Thunder Horse have evolved their trait once everyone's forted in and nobody could do any damage to each other. That's probably why they were so quiet, they had to work out the Stability drops until the trait evolved or they broke up and formed a dozen city states with more favorable traits.
Here
That's basically a forced trait change event via subjugation.
If. The Xohyssiri may have records of that era, but after 3 succession crisis, I doubt the Highlanders have a clear story of what's going on anymore, besides the part that they have more recent grudges with each other.
That's functionally Currency though. The ability to automatically exchange Luxuries(Diplomacy) into manpower(Economy).
Strong Opinions about Agriculture.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I got confused who you were talking about here. The Thunder Speakers have definitely had a forced trait change. However, when I read your thing I thought you were still talking about the Eastern Thunder Horse and hadn't switched back to the Thunder Speakers.
I think the Eastern Thunder Horse are still ruled by their warrior elite and their Martial Honor trait has morphed into some kind of Glory in Conquest trait. The city state nature of their organization however indicates some kind of extreme competing ambitions, like what we have with our Oligarchy but turned up to 11 until it became active hostilities. Part of this transformation is probably due to the loss of the Star Axe, which the Thunder Speakers only recently gave up.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
Its height is probably the most important part. Plants can be grown in a way that accents without disguising the stonework, especially likely considering its value/expense, while still producing food.
.... Why is metal necessary for hinges and sliders? Drills are useful but stone examples exist.
What is a slider roof?
The greenhouses in the relevant link used largely opaque plastic roofs.
Plants do better with more light exposure, but thick plugs of milky glass are equally suitable. Admittedly, this comes at the cost of growth speed. Please refer to/visit antique hothouses in Europe.
I don't have any points to make about the likelihood of developing greenhouses on a wide scale.
As DocMatoi noted in the quote above, hemp is an option, too, and somewhat easily available through Study Forest actions which leads to its use for making cloth being noted which leads, somehow, to other stuff.
We probably don't kill young cows except the one that's a scapegoat.
Canal & clay tablets. Subject to attrition, and bones are better, though.
Sailboats make it easy enough to think of, imo.
Last edited:
- Location
- madison
unless I am grossly misunderstanding your point that does not make it more likely the people could do something similar.
- Location
- Somewhere over the rainbow
Future Archaeologist Debate of the Century: It's common knowledge that the Xohyrissi were the first continuous civilization, but some have pointed to the necropolis near ancient shrines among the Ymaryn to indicate there was at least a ritualized burial practice for longer than the Xohyrissi were around, and the dating on a component of a shrine indicates that it's older than the Xohyrissi. Taken into account with the fact that all the Ymaryn cities was somehow in a near constant state of sacking but somehow the forest, Canal, Garden, and Salterns were evidently intact, along with intermittent tax records in perfect chronological order or what would after a few months digging reveal another cache that filled the gaps, some have begun floating the radical idea that maybe the Ymaryn weren't constantly sacked as previously assumed but were actually one long continuous civilization.Foundations I'm not so sure about. We've dug up our foundations in the ancient past when reorganizing, turning up all sorts of dead bodies, to be moved.
Then we did it again after discovering that Cholera spreads from latrines leaking demons into the water. We dug up everything and reorganized the city again.
Then we did it again not a generation after that when we built our aqueduct. Dug everything up, relaid the streets and changed the ditches to lined drains to handle the water inflow and outflow, as well as early sewerage fields.
Overall, the ability to identify Valleyhome as an old settlement would be difficult for that reason. We've dug up the foundations of the original era, and we've done it again and again. They can date it, but odds are dating continuity of settlement will be challenging. We destroy our our structures with a glee that in most other civilizations would be associated with a sacking
However the bones are a good point. If you wanted to date the Ymaryn, look to the Holy Sites. Rainbow Bridge had barely been changed since it's inception except to be expanded, and the necropolis part of it is considered ritually untouchable. They'd be able to carbon date bones for a continuous period of thousands of years there.
Obviously this debate is highly controversial, and the Ymaryn government has not been very receptive to the idea of archaeologists ripping up their most populous city and center of government for what amounts to a continuity measuring contest, so these theories all remain idle speculation.
Evidence to the contrary also appears in the northern area of the Ymaryn people, where a battlesite was dug up and estimated casualties were two to three times higher on the Ymaryn side than the other, which was a frankly unsustainably high loss rate for a bunch of hill farmers to not immediately become overcome with other enemies.
The worst part is that this was a constant pattern; in almost every single battlesite before the Ymaryn somehow got iron, likely from trade ties to other civilizations, the Ymaryn side would consistently have a loss rate of two to one, which if true and the Ymaryn were a long continuous civilization would imply a mindbogglingly large population supported by relatively infertile hills.
Last edited:
Sliders are hard to build because they require precision and that takes iterative refinement with steel tools.
Hinges are metal only constructions. Nothing else can form the required shape without using at least metal tools to make it
Yes. Some plants are likely, but full agricultural utilization would consume all visible surface area
We explicitly do so. Its the only way to maintain enough cowpox
Harder to date, and our clay tablets apparently only record statistics at present
Hard part is the gearing to translate from linear energy to rotational
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
DocMatoi
Theoretical Lover of Girls
- Location
- within 2 hours of the White House
- Pronouns
- They/Them
please don't you are making me ill
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Think kinda like an observatory, but it's meant for plants.
A sliding roof is a curved roof that sits in a set of metal sliders and you can open and close it to vent heat and the like.
We could make milky glass, probably. Which is what I think Umi was getting at.
Hah. It even hints that the Xohyssiri are just an archaeological event but the Ymaryn are still around. Really with our repeated tearing down and rebuilding it should be evident to any archaeologist worth their shovel that human habitation has been going on in Valleyhome for a long time.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
Literally what is a slider???
You can drill holes into wood, slot wooden pegs through the holes to keep it together, and possibly even use wooden nails. drills are p old
*shrug* Sure. I still feel that a giant, obviously out of place, hill with clearly visible stone steps and possibly a temple at the top would be impressive even if it was used for (largely) full agricultural utilization.
I'm uncertain as to why we would kill young cows when we can just kill older, no longer productive ones and raise the young ones up in their place. By the time they're cows they've probably been fed enough to be full grown. I.e., speed up turnover rather than attrition during youth. But maybe calves, rather than cows, can be infected with smallpox? That would make killing them young worthwhile.
If we have water mills
.... this sounds like something you can use wood for easily enough. Like there's probably extra wear but still. idr why this matters, though.
Last edited:
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
A slider is basically a small metal trough that you can move things through. Like a sliding patio door.
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Not really. It's another example of "slavery is actually a really powerful tool (just, you know, a horrible one)". Most if not all of our neighbors can get econ from wars from taking slaves, and i think diplo from widespread trophy and luxury stealing. Likewise, i could easily see either a social value or "just" having an established slave system letting them trade their diplo overflow for econ. Alternately, they could just be running on "focus on golden age + diplo + art + mysticism + being a protected vassal, don't use or expand econ much"
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Alllllllll the Trade Missions.
I really do think though that they are being paid in slaves for luxuries they produce. We already know they were provided slaves from the Thunder Speakers when they were stomped and that the Xohyssiri are trading for sacrificial slaves. I wouldn't be surprised if the Xoh in times of really great stress just start hemorrhaging Econ like a sieve as they sacrifice everyone in reach who isn't a high class free man or a priest.
Honestly looking at their religion I'm surprised that they don't have a spirit for the Great DOOM. I'm surprised no one has a Spirit/God that is a direct DOOM connected entity.
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I do half-believe the bit from my recursive omake about the Xohyssiri having a full on Doom Mechanic, a la EU4 Nahuatl nations
It makes positive proof very hard to get though, precisely due to that. Your foundation of evidence would be the notoriously unreliable records of people about themselves...and our isolation isn't helping either, especially when our main trade goods are consumable dye and salt.
Specifically that, we raise them, infect them and slaughter them once they recover from the infection to make room for more.
As in, building long straight constructions of wood or metal alike is immensely difficult for most of history. It'd be a fine artisanal piece using techniques derived from decorative woodworking.
Quiet tensions
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] [Main] Build Iron Mine
[X] [Secondary] Change Policy - Balanced
[X] [Secondary] Grand Sacrifice
Provinces – Econ x2, Study Stars, Survey – Northshore, Blackriver
Stallion Tribes – [Main] Build Chariots, [Sec] Expand Forest, [Sec] Build Watchtowers
Western Wall – [Main] Build Watchtowers, [Sec] Expand Econ x2
The king called for the new mine to be opened, as much because of the resources it would bring forth as for the chance to check if it was actually associated with disaster. To compensate, an elaborate ceremony of propitiation was prepared to appease the spirits and let the People know that the king wasn't doing something that would bring ruin. He also met with the chiefs and gave them new marching orders to just try to keep the fields and forests tended, and to look for anything that might be of interest for future developments.
And as it was... the situation mostly became rather mediocre. A series of poor but not devastating harvests, some general mismanagement, and generally cool relations with outsiders lead to a situation best described of as 'uncomfortable but stable'. Nothing was generally wrong but there were a dozen or so little problems that were all adding up to produce a general feeling of social malaise. About the only major development was that the latest chariot building push had been integrating the new iron tools and they had been making strides forward with the finer work they could do, as well as looking into using iron in the construction. Thus far they had managed to make a lighter but sturdier model that thus was able to roll faster.
As for the iron mine, it went alright with no major disasters, but the ore quality was much poorer than from the Bleeding Cliffs. Still, the lack of disaster was definitely something that the pro-metal shamans had been looking for, even if the opposed faction pointed to the general malaise and stated that the poor quality of the ore meant that obviously most of its potency and thus curse was already lost. Still, the new iron was of considerable benefit and the People immediately put it to good use.
+5 Econ, +1 Martial
More interestingly, in the north some sites were found of value. In Northshore a flash flood had diverted a portion of one of the rivers there into a new course, cutting away the soil to expose a good quality gypsum deposit shot through with nodules of shiny grey cubes. By all indications there weren't many practical uses, but as a source of materials for artistic endeavours there was certainly something there. Also, over in Blackriver there was a series of hills that one of the surveyors claimed had just the right conditions to be easily turned into a growing site for the small fruits on vines that some of the People grew as a luxury. What whole hills of them might be good for wasn't entirely clear, but then again the few experiments in fermentation of these fruits had produced a drink with a far bigger kick to it than beer or kumis, so there was the possibility of making the festivals really fun.
Choose a response to general malaise
[] Enforce Law (0 to 1 Stability, greater odds of stability gain, +2-3 Centralization)
[] Improve Annual Festival (-2 Econ, +1 Stability, +1 Art chance for additional effects)
[] Build boats to tie the People together (-2 Econ, +1 Econ end of turn, +1 Econ and Diplo next turn, additional effects, tiny chance of innovation)
[] Develop vineyard (-1 Econ, +???)
And then one year, a grand omen was found when a calf of pure white was born. While the immediate thought was that the calf should be the yearly sacrifice to the spirits in thanks for the maintenance of the sacred warding, there was immediate discussion over whether or not the spirits had lent this animal over to the People for a more extended purpose. While this was fairly obviously a test of some sort, the question was 'what kind of test'? The king did note that the various groups with opinions on the matter tended to be rather self serving about it. Still, the majority did have some good points. In general the camps either figured that the calf was to be sacrificed as a test of willingness to return that which was given by the spirits to the spirits, or that the purpose of giving over the white calf was because the spirits wanted a higher class of sacrifice now that the People were more successful/were transgressing by digging up metal more often, and thus it should be bred with others to produce more white cattle.
What to do with the white calf?
[] Sacrifice it
[] Breed it
While deciding on this, the king was also listening to reports from the frontiers. Down in Southshore it sounded like pressure from the Hathatyn had ramped up again, although part of that was because it sounded like their most powerful king had made a power grab that resulted in power swinging out of his hands instead. Namely, it sounded like he had sponsored more boats to be built in an attempt to harass the People further, only for the warriors assigned to these boats to decide that they had much better plunder opportunities along the rivers rather than going into foreign territory.
Recruiting primarily from disgruntled warriors from other cities had probably been a mistake.
Cosmopolitan Acceptance Triggers
+2 Econ, no stab loss
Choose a response to the Hathatyn situation
[] Kick them out of Southshore (War Mission)
[] Send an envoy (-1 Diplomacy)
[] Build boats to counter them (-2 Econ, +1 Econ and +1 Diplo next turn, other potential effects)
[] Ignore them
In any case, this had produced a wave of refugees who had explained the situation as best they could while being resettled. It had also created an uptick in attacks from the sea, but the People had repulsed these attacks with minimal effort, although they now definitely had cause to go into the region and beat up the Hathatyn if they so chose. Traders also brought tales of the Highlanders beginning a massive push to fortify their holdings, both in the hills and in the lowlands, clearly bracing for when the Thunder Horse finished digesting their conquests in the east and went for the other half of the lowlands. The Thunder Speakers had also apparently made some degree of peace with their humiliation and cultural castration, the purely religious Thunder Speaker choosing to focus his people's energies upon spiritual matters and artwork, to considerable success in conjunction with the Xohyssiri turning themselves into a centre of art and trade as well.
The Xohyssiri themselves had actually decided to send their own delegation to the People, and while it was not quite the mythical moment still enshrined upon the stone walls of Rainbow Trail, their delegates were quite interesting to the king for the fact that a considerable number of them appeared to be labourers of some sort. Intrigued by the news from the messengers running ahead, he made sure to open a time for them to meet as quickly as possible.
"Greetings, King of the Ymaryn, I come from the Xohyssiri as an ambassador of goodwill and trade," the delegate stated. "I bring not just tribute but also a proposal that I feel may be mutually beneficial to our two peoples."
The king nodded at this and said, "Please, explain."
"For the past several generations the Xohyssiri have been forced into only our lands immediately around our fair city, and while this has rankled many, it also forced us to become clever. Our trade with you brought many ideas, and while we have not been able to replicate your achievements, we have been attempting to make do with what land we do have to get more use out of it. We have made several discoveries and changes and we grow more food than ever, but we know that you still exceed us in these matters. However, we think our workers have new insights that we would like to share with you, in exchange for teaching some of your insights," the delegate explained.
The king blinked a few times and then said, "Huh."
The Xohyssiri wish to trade!
[] Yes (Trade step farming for chinampas)
[] No thank you
[X] [Secondary] Change Policy - Balanced
[X] [Secondary] Grand Sacrifice
Provinces – Econ x2, Study Stars, Survey – Northshore, Blackriver
Stallion Tribes – [Main] Build Chariots, [Sec] Expand Forest, [Sec] Build Watchtowers
Western Wall – [Main] Build Watchtowers, [Sec] Expand Econ x2
The king called for the new mine to be opened, as much because of the resources it would bring forth as for the chance to check if it was actually associated with disaster. To compensate, an elaborate ceremony of propitiation was prepared to appease the spirits and let the People know that the king wasn't doing something that would bring ruin. He also met with the chiefs and gave them new marching orders to just try to keep the fields and forests tended, and to look for anything that might be of interest for future developments.
And as it was... the situation mostly became rather mediocre. A series of poor but not devastating harvests, some general mismanagement, and generally cool relations with outsiders lead to a situation best described of as 'uncomfortable but stable'. Nothing was generally wrong but there were a dozen or so little problems that were all adding up to produce a general feeling of social malaise. About the only major development was that the latest chariot building push had been integrating the new iron tools and they had been making strides forward with the finer work they could do, as well as looking into using iron in the construction. Thus far they had managed to make a lighter but sturdier model that thus was able to roll faster.
As for the iron mine, it went alright with no major disasters, but the ore quality was much poorer than from the Bleeding Cliffs. Still, the lack of disaster was definitely something that the pro-metal shamans had been looking for, even if the opposed faction pointed to the general malaise and stated that the poor quality of the ore meant that obviously most of its potency and thus curse was already lost. Still, the new iron was of considerable benefit and the People immediately put it to good use.
+5 Econ, +1 Martial
More interestingly, in the north some sites were found of value. In Northshore a flash flood had diverted a portion of one of the rivers there into a new course, cutting away the soil to expose a good quality gypsum deposit shot through with nodules of shiny grey cubes. By all indications there weren't many practical uses, but as a source of materials for artistic endeavours there was certainly something there. Also, over in Blackriver there was a series of hills that one of the surveyors claimed had just the right conditions to be easily turned into a growing site for the small fruits on vines that some of the People grew as a luxury. What whole hills of them might be good for wasn't entirely clear, but then again the few experiments in fermentation of these fruits had produced a drink with a far bigger kick to it than beer or kumis, so there was the possibility of making the festivals really fun.
Choose a response to general malaise
[] Enforce Law (0 to 1 Stability, greater odds of stability gain, +2-3 Centralization)
[] Improve Annual Festival (-2 Econ, +1 Stability, +1 Art chance for additional effects)
[] Build boats to tie the People together (-2 Econ, +1 Econ end of turn, +1 Econ and Diplo next turn, additional effects, tiny chance of innovation)
[] Develop vineyard (-1 Econ, +???)
And then one year, a grand omen was found when a calf of pure white was born. While the immediate thought was that the calf should be the yearly sacrifice to the spirits in thanks for the maintenance of the sacred warding, there was immediate discussion over whether or not the spirits had lent this animal over to the People for a more extended purpose. While this was fairly obviously a test of some sort, the question was 'what kind of test'? The king did note that the various groups with opinions on the matter tended to be rather self serving about it. Still, the majority did have some good points. In general the camps either figured that the calf was to be sacrificed as a test of willingness to return that which was given by the spirits to the spirits, or that the purpose of giving over the white calf was because the spirits wanted a higher class of sacrifice now that the People were more successful/were transgressing by digging up metal more often, and thus it should be bred with others to produce more white cattle.
What to do with the white calf?
[] Sacrifice it
[] Breed it
While deciding on this, the king was also listening to reports from the frontiers. Down in Southshore it sounded like pressure from the Hathatyn had ramped up again, although part of that was because it sounded like their most powerful king had made a power grab that resulted in power swinging out of his hands instead. Namely, it sounded like he had sponsored more boats to be built in an attempt to harass the People further, only for the warriors assigned to these boats to decide that they had much better plunder opportunities along the rivers rather than going into foreign territory.
Recruiting primarily from disgruntled warriors from other cities had probably been a mistake.
Cosmopolitan Acceptance Triggers
+2 Econ, no stab loss
Choose a response to the Hathatyn situation
[] Kick them out of Southshore (War Mission)
[] Send an envoy (-1 Diplomacy)
[] Build boats to counter them (-2 Econ, +1 Econ and +1 Diplo next turn, other potential effects)
[] Ignore them
In any case, this had produced a wave of refugees who had explained the situation as best they could while being resettled. It had also created an uptick in attacks from the sea, but the People had repulsed these attacks with minimal effort, although they now definitely had cause to go into the region and beat up the Hathatyn if they so chose. Traders also brought tales of the Highlanders beginning a massive push to fortify their holdings, both in the hills and in the lowlands, clearly bracing for when the Thunder Horse finished digesting their conquests in the east and went for the other half of the lowlands. The Thunder Speakers had also apparently made some degree of peace with their humiliation and cultural castration, the purely religious Thunder Speaker choosing to focus his people's energies upon spiritual matters and artwork, to considerable success in conjunction with the Xohyssiri turning themselves into a centre of art and trade as well.
The Xohyssiri themselves had actually decided to send their own delegation to the People, and while it was not quite the mythical moment still enshrined upon the stone walls of Rainbow Trail, their delegates were quite interesting to the king for the fact that a considerable number of them appeared to be labourers of some sort. Intrigued by the news from the messengers running ahead, he made sure to open a time for them to meet as quickly as possible.
"Greetings, King of the Ymaryn, I come from the Xohyssiri as an ambassador of goodwill and trade," the delegate stated. "I bring not just tribute but also a proposal that I feel may be mutually beneficial to our two peoples."
The king nodded at this and said, "Please, explain."
"For the past several generations the Xohyssiri have been forced into only our lands immediately around our fair city, and while this has rankled many, it also forced us to become clever. Our trade with you brought many ideas, and while we have not been able to replicate your achievements, we have been attempting to make do with what land we do have to get more use out of it. We have made several discoveries and changes and we grow more food than ever, but we know that you still exceed us in these matters. However, we think our workers have new insights that we would like to share with you, in exchange for teaching some of your insights," the delegate explained.
The king blinked a few times and then said, "Huh."
The Xohyssiri wish to trade!
[] Yes (Trade step farming for chinampas)
[] No thank you
- Location
- Australia
NO. One of the earliest and most significant advances in the morality of the People was them realising that no, disproportionate retribution was a bad thing. When a man kills another man, you do not kill that man and his entire family, you kill the murderer and that's it.
When it comes to war with other civilisations, we should do so with Protective Justice in mind, not with what we had before Eye for an Eye. Our goal in war should be to protect our people and prevent the enemy from hurting our people, and there it should stop. There will be no punitive sacking of a city to punish their sacking of one of our villages. What there will be is us destroying their military to prevent them from attacking us, and that's it.
Please! As if SV wouldn't be 100% on board with this for the sake of a continuity measuring contest!
- Location
- Somewhere over the rainbow
General
Diplomacy 14 (max, overflowing) [+1]
Economy 13
Martial 11 {15} (partial over limit)
Stability
Stability 1 (confident)
Legitimacy 3 (max)
Organizational
Centralization 3
Hierarchy 6
Cultural
Art 7
Mysticism 4
Prestige 8
when we max out all the general stats
Diplomacy 14 (max, overflowing) [+1]
Economy 13
Martial 11 {15} (partial over limit)
Stability
Stability 1 (confident)
Legitimacy 3 (max)
Organizational
Centralization 3
Hierarchy 6
Cultural
Art 7
Mysticism 4
Prestige 8
when we max out all the general stats
- Location
- Hell
Well then
[] Develop vineyard (-1 Econ, +???)
[X] Improve Annual Festival (-2 Econ, +1 Stability, +1 Art chance for additional effects)
New thing! Festival is nicer though. That way we don't have to worry about Stability.
@Academia Nut Would we have an option to develop vineyard later?
[X] Breed it
Kick breeding program further, better domestication
[X] Kick them out of Southshore (War Mission)
We are overflowing on martial again, this would be a good way to spend it.
[X] Yes (Trade step farming for chinampas)
All the farming techniques!
Now on to bad news
We need to start moving in.
[] Develop vineyard (-1 Econ, +???)
[X] Improve Annual Festival (-2 Econ, +1 Stability, +1 Art chance for additional effects)
New thing! Festival is nicer though. That way we don't have to worry about Stability.
@Academia Nut Would we have an option to develop vineyard later?
[X] Breed it
Kick breeding program further, better domestication
[X] Kick them out of Southshore (War Mission)
We are overflowing on martial again, this would be a good way to spend it.
[X] Yes (Trade step farming for chinampas)
All the farming techniques!
Now on to bad news
We need to start moving in.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
[X] Develop vineyard (-1 Econ, +???)
[X] Breed it
[X] Build boats to counter them (-2 Econ, +1 Econ and +1 Diplo next turn, other potential effects)
[] Yes (Trade step farming for chinampas)
[] No thank you
... I wanna say yes but idk
Vineyard is the most interesting option.
Not strongly attached to breed it, but it sounds better than killing.
Boats to counter; we can attack them when we feel like it, and this works to forestall a rebuttal.
Why did movable roofs matter, again?
[X] Breed it
[X] Build boats to counter them (-2 Econ, +1 Econ and +1 Diplo next turn, other potential effects)
[] Yes (Trade step farming for chinampas)
[] No thank you
... I wanna say yes but idk
Vineyard is the most interesting option.
Not strongly attached to breed it, but it sounds better than killing.
Boats to counter; we can attack them when we feel like it, and this works to forestall a rebuttal.
Looked back at when we finished the thing; as previously stated, it makes no notes of young cows being slain other than the a single sacrifice to the gods. Plz provide citations to the contrary.
So you admit you're wrong?
Why did movable roofs matter, again?