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I'm pretty sure nothing like that has happened in the beta timeline.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
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- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard open voting
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something something time travel
Zampano
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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
Chapter 607, Part 1: A Festering Wound Noburi sat quietly in the corner, trying to look like an indefatigable, ever-reliable Gōketsu pillar of support. The person Akane had been. The person the clan needed right now. Not the person he actually was, hurting and confused, and not sure exactly who...
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Kei chastised us in the aftermath of Hidan's visit when Yuno converted to Jashinism. The Hivemind told Hazo to do sealing research and he did not encounter any Goketsu members who might have been aware of the social pressure that would make a denouncement more urgent.
Not sure if this is the kind of example you're looking for, but it was 7/2023.
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The two recent examples off the top of my head are this and this (specifically the lack of pushback on us asking if we could get the Clan Council to do X and her answering with the reasons why KEI wouldn't like X, and the lack of pushback on her giving us shit for putting our love life over political convenience after she happily let the Nara and Gōketsu enter a Clan War so she can have a legal relationship with Tenten), plus her 'advice' on the Hagoromo that was delivered offscreen.
Here, let me provide quotes for a few of them:
There might be more recent stuff, but that's what immediately came to mind. If you look in the comments for those chapters you can see frustration at doormatting being expressed. Hope this helps!
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You've said this before and I already corrected you then. The clan war had nothing to do with Kei's relationship with Tenten. It started because the Hagoromo refused to marry Noburi and Yuno. Nor do the Gōketsu have any relationship to the Concubine Laws beyond the fact that Hazō supported them during the Clan Council meeting where they were presented.
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I'm not too concerned becuase I asked this in thread and got a wildly different answer from Mari, but it's still a great example of why it would be best to leave her out of issues where she has an extreme conflict of interest.
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The Clan War against the Hagoromo was always about their treatment of Kei and "Tintin"'s relationship.
All we had to do to remain on good terms with the Hagoromo was to make one minor adjustment to the Concubine Laws.
There would have been absolutely no problem with marrying Yuno and Noburi had we done that.
Besides, even if you want to split hairs about the Gōketsu, there is no denying that the Nara burned enormous political capital by submitting that legal proposal in bad faith, let alone by the attacks they made again the Hagoromo's interests following the council.
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I maintain that Kei unilaterally pushing forward and using Hazou's Concubine slot for leverage without his permission, or even doing a quick check, was unusually callous of her in the way that it ignored Hazou's agency.
Kei, who is especially sensitive to matters of agency, and who is still extremely irked by the way that Jiraiya and Shikamaru ignored her agency with regard to her marriage, who was able to use her own Concubine Slot for a romantic relationship, should have at least had a quick consent check with Hazou about this.
And I still want to know what the heck Mari was doing, if she wasn't working on Mio. She and Kei both said they could handle Mio, every time we asked, and then they went and flubbed it.
At least we're going missing, soon. And at least Mio won't benefit from our newer S-rank jutsu the way that the remaining Goketsu will. Fuck Mio.
Kei, who is especially sensitive to matters of agency, and who is still extremely irked by the way that Jiraiya and Shikamaru ignored her agency with regard to her marriage, who was able to use her own Concubine Slot for a romantic relationship, should have at least had a quick consent check with Hazou about this.
And I still want to know what the heck Mari was doing, if she wasn't working on Mio. She and Kei both said they could handle Mio, every time we asked, and then they went and flubbed it.
Looks like I got ninja'd but yeah Chapter 607 Part 1 qualifies.
It has started happening a lot less frequently both as Kei improves and the players stop fucking up as much.
I'd say if you're looking for examples of Hazou behaving like a doormat in social situations the most recent example is with Noburi in Chapter 636.
Hazou chose the wrong moment to ask Noburi about the examination, that's not being a doormat so much as stupid. But after he kicked things off in a OMIF fashion he needed to shut down Noburi and Yuno tag-teaming him, and instead back-peddaled as hard as he could, that's the doormat coming out.
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I don't mind the actual solution (at least, not compared to), the core of my discontent is that Kei, who is supremely protective of her own agency, neglected to respect Hazou's.
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Yes. It was at that point when Kei should have mercifully allowed Mio to marry someone she would have bargained to.
What happened there?
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Yeah, but could you imagine the reverse situation, wherein Hazou leverages Kei's Concubine Slot for a political maneuver, [without her permission or her knowledge]? Kei would be apoplectic.
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I've always read Kei as having a pathological need to not be under someone else's authority (I wonder what her parents did), more so than her viewing the right to decide for oneself as a moral imperative.
I don't have a strong opinion about the Kei controversy (Kontroversy?) but all this dispute has caused me to start thinking about the past controversies I do care about... and now I'm feeling salty again. Grrr
(A Marked for Death player is never not salty. They merely forget their salt, from time to time. Salt is forever.)
(A Marked for Death player is never not salty. They merely forget their salt, from time to time. Salt is forever.)
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That does not sound plausible, based on my reread of how the chapter went. Kei expected Mio to have a strong reaction to being Hazou's concubine (and would counteroffer accordingly), and so she went with the plan of pusing Hazou in her scenario, with explanations of why Mio being a Goketsu's concubine would be necessary. That she underestimated her own skills is not a
I disagree. Kei's actions re: Mio have been within the boundaries of what I would expect her to do in this situation. Specifically, she went to Hazou before having finalized the agreement. The entire opening scene of Chapter 622 has Hazou try to find an alternative, which would not be possible if Kei had actually gone through with it; that Kei had no real objections to finding someone else indicates that this was not finalized.
In the reverse situation where Hazou used Kei's Concubine Slot to solve an issue Kei's plans had made, got everyone else relevant onboard, and then went to Kei? She'd be frustrated that Hazou didn't go to her earlier, but this is more because we have traditionally used Kei as a sanity-checker but inexplicably did not do so here, and absent this she would be reasonably OK. Certainly not apoplectic.
Now, if Hazou had actually gone through with it? Yes, she would be apopletic. I contrast the Mio situation with Kei's actions towards Shikamaru at the Chunin Exams: raging at Shikamaru for forcibly binding himself with Kei in front of an international audience without having talked to her first. And here lies the key difference: nothing Kei did regarding the Mio situation was set in stone / unable to undo without catastrophic damage. Shikamaru's actions...not so.
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New Condor name just dropped.
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On the contrary. The clan war didn't start after that meeting. No action was taken until the Hagoromo refused to officiate Noburi and Yuno's wedding, at which point the players immediately voted in the first act of the clan war.
Edit: Specifically, the Concubine Laws are presented in Chapter 362. Kei makes an offhand suggestion that implies undermining the Hagoromo in Chapter 364. Nothing happens until the Hagoromo refuse to officiate the wedding in Chapter 373. The players vote to act on Kei's suggestion and to begin investigating the Hagoromo in the plan for Chapter 374.
You're still talking as if the Concubine Laws were a Gōketsu project which the Gōketsu chose not to adjust because Kei's welfare mattered more than good relations with the Hagoromo. This was not the case. The Concubine Laws were invented by Shikamaru and then developed and presented by him and Kei. The Gōketsu had nothing to do with them until the final moment.
The proposal was presented in bad faith, but no burning of capital was intended--it's not as if Shikamaru planned to get caught red-handed and have Asuma reject the proposal. As for the attacks, those certainly had nothing to do with protecting Kei's relationship, the status of which was settled by that point. They were straightforwardly revenge for the Hagoromo insulting Kei's and thereby the Nara's honour.
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Was Kei never planning on marrying Tenten using this law? My understanding was that this was always intended to come out, at which point Asuma was going to be furious and conflict with the conservative clans would errupt.
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This being Ami, surely the correct move would not be so simple as proving your loyalty? Now creating the appearance of betraying Ami in order to exploit her enemies, only to set them up for a catastrophic fall when she returns and reveals your ongoing alliance...
This is getting into "you should be having this conversation in-character" territory, but to Asuma, the matter would look quite different if the laws took effect, a bunch of concubine relationships were created and proved beneficial to Leaf as per the presentation, and then it emerged that a small percentage of those relationships were homosexual.
Conflict with conservative clans was inevitable anyway since they'd find out about Kei and Tenten sooner or later. It wasn't as if Shikamaru could force Kei to choose between the Nara and Tenten, considering that she could very realistically choose Tenten, go back to the Gōketsu, and leave him with no alliance, a hostile Gōketsu, a hostile KEI, and still a negative reputation--as a cuckold who'd been made a fool of and left with nothing. On the other hand, it is because of the way the meeting went down that the conflict took the shape of "the Nara consort is an abomination" rather than, say, "we condemn the Nara's excessive progressivism in matters of sexuality".
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Honestly, yeah. We'd go to war with the Nara in a heartbeat if they mistreated Kei in any way. We're the Clan of "go pretty damned far."