Even so I'm saying that the Seventh Path is much less dangerous than the Human Path. We've had multiple events on the Human Path that would unstagnate an essie in the last couple years. The Seventh Path has had one, Pangs invading Hyena, and that was notable for being incredibly rare. The Bosses have such advantages on their home territory that they don't go to war nearly as often.
I agree to an extent, but Pantsaa said that the cost of summoning a Summon is based on how much nature chakra they've absorbed, which is supposedly mostly determined by age. So they may just passively generate XP (an abstraction of training and ability) from nature chakra just giving them power for free. It seems that they do still need to train, but I don't know that there's as much need to push themselves as humans.

Regardless, Oro is not the first immortal ninja and Kakuzu as well has not simply reached sage power and conquered the setting. He didn't even seem on the same level as pain. And Kakuzu does beef with other essies. He fought the first Hokage and was pretty active in Akatsuki too. Seems like you just slow down eventually like Jiraiya did.

Of course Oro can still innovate with bioseals and I still agree that even marginal gains from FOOM would be silly to give up to him when we can avoid it.
 
I think there's a couple big things to remember, based on some of the arguments that I am seeing.

1) The mechanics are to represent the simulation, the simulation doesn't change to match the mechanics. By that I mean, arguments about Oro or Enma needing certain unlock actions are entertaining, but not something we should rely on. We know that rules work differently regarding sheets for the PCs compared to most others. Relatedly

2) Nothing says that other folks can't push back against stagnancy. Like, it can be a progressive thing, so growth may have slowed down but not stopped completely. And narratively/logically, having giant powerful enemies that you find yourself weaker than is exactly the sort of thing that makes you push past current limits and work hard to improve yourself against. This relates to point 1 as: don't assume that stagnancy won't go away until after Dragon War.

3) These folks are competent actors. Aside from the absolute destruction that an army of Oros doing sealing could accomplish, they could spread that knowledge as they see fit. It isn't like we could force them to honor their word. Oro would absolutely gank a Noburi cousin and rewrite their brain. Or ask nicely and bribe them/threaten them. Enma could try to bring that to the monkey clan. Or tell Asuma. Once we tell someone FOOM, it's theirs.

4) FOOM is not fast. Having more resolve is offset by most relevant skills being expensive already. We've been working at it for a while in universe. And we're finally starting to see non -resolve payoffs (and the resolve itself is non-trivial). But it takes some time to start up. Assuming Enma can do SC, it takes time to get it to level 40. And as much as he's out and traveling, he is on guard, because he is the leader of his people. SC FOOM training is something he could maybe do on the go, but that's a big maybe. Leaving himself that vulnerable while traveling through foreign lands? Seems risky.

The idea of giving it to him seems cool. The fact that he can lighthouse on the opposite side of the continent as he raises to god-hood would be cool. But I don't think it would work, I think it would be a huge info lead, and I agree that if Oro found out about it, there is no world in which we end in the long-game. Because if we realize "eventually, there will be enough of us that are S-rank to take Oro, using this", then likely so will Oro.
 
Requested by @Paperclipped to ask this in-thread:

KEI are freaked out about adoptions now, because one of the main draws of KEI membership is jutsu exchange, but KEI members who get adopted bring the jutsu they know into the clan (their lord can make them teach it to others), and this means exchanging your jutsu in KEI is leaking it to the clans, and this means that KEI membership is less appealing. As a result, they are playing silly games with refusing adoptions, and Mari expects them to price-gouge where they can't get away with outright refusal.

Previously, we passed a plan (but the scene for which was missed) to approach the KEI leadership (Kei, Ami, and Naruto, of which we only need to convince two) with the following offer:
  • We'll (Gouketsu who were not previously in KEI) not learn KEI jutsu except on a case-by-case basis with their permission.
  • We'll return any jutsu to them if it somehow ends up known only by former-KEI Gouketsu.
  • They stop playing games.
The plan is to have this enforced by contract (backed by the Office of Hokage), with a sufficiently harsh penalty attached that breaking it to steal jutsu doesn't make strategic sense for a hypothetical Defector!Hazou to do.

@Lord Marshal and @Cariyaga have expressed concerns that ninja are too paranoid for this to ever be agreed to, and that the other clans might step in to stop the deal because it sets the precedent that clan heads can be harshly punished for breach of contract, and that the hokage would not want to back such a contract because of the previous item (because trying to hold clan heads accountable for their actions is a pain, and invites civil war).

What does Mari think of all this?
 
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We already know that Kei is under a similar contract when it comes to not teaching Gouketsu jutsu to Nara and vice versa, so precedent exists.
I think Kei's contract is "precedent exists within clans that dual-clan status can't be leveraged to steal secrets (no authority to make her give them out), and if things get out, there's a part of the contract that stipulates what happens then, instead of a clan war or ridiculous attempts at stealing secrets back".
Libraries of clan secrets can be compared to for proof, elders can show their mastery to the Hokage and the Hokage only, etc.
If the KEI lose a jutsu, they can hardly prove it's the same as the one we still have. If we learn a jutsu and word gets out that we learnt it, they weren't likely to get clan-level legal settlements in the first place. And that's conditional on it getting out.
Plus, we'd be asking the Tower to sign off on underpowering ninja and undermining the principle of adoption-as-full-clan-incorporation, plus risking the permanent loss of good jutsu.
I'm not Mari, but my expectation is she'll laugh the idea away
 
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"And how do you prove that you don't know what you don't know?"
"Umm..."
"I swear, Lord Hokage Asuma sir, I don't know this thing which would be a clan secret if I did know it"
"Uuh..."
True, the contract wouldn't be able to guarantee enforcement in all cases of breach. But it would still create a paradigm where the jutsu cannot be used publicly (or taught to others or leaked outside the clan or-) without introducing severe punishment, which would both reduce the marginal value of breaching the contract and incentivize any clan who does break the contract to mitigate the KEI's fears (that the jutsu will be spread around and leave the KEI without their comparative advantage) on their own.

Certainly, Hazou ordering a recently-adopted ninja to teach him their personal Earth jutsu and getting away with it is far from ideal, but if Hazou then diligently hoards the jutsu, refusing to share with anyone who might possibly leak it and refusing to use it anywhere word of it might possibly leak, that's a lot better than nothing.

(Moreover, this is a village with mind-readers on payroll. While mind-diving a clan head is beyond the pale, you can mind-dive the ex-KEI ninja to figure out what happened. Hard proof is thus not strictly required here, only reasonable suspicion and a cooperative ex-KEI ninja)

So it's not a silver bullet to all their qualms, but I could see it being potent enough to persuade them even through the muddy reality of paranoia. Especially since, well, they're burning political capital every month they keep up this game of refusing to sell tickets. They have good reason to be adverse to selling tickets, but after a while in the eyes of Asuma and the Clans it probably starts to look like they're misusing the authority they've been given. In light of that, KEI leadership might say that a mostly-serviceable solution is better than no solution.
 
There might be some cryptography shenanigans we can do to prove that the thing we're talking about is what it is?

--

As an aside, a seal proposal:

More accurately, two.

The set (while separate seals, not seal elements) are referred to as Anti Friendly Fire Seals. They consist of a receiver, and a transmitter. the transmitter produces a signal that the receiver picks up, and while the receiver is receiving that signal, it does not activate the attached seal.

The way these are used, is that you put the transmitter on a MARS and keep it on your person, and attach a receiver to any aoe seals. The receiver may be given a delay before activation, in a similar manner to explosive seals; it activates its related seal instantly, when it does activate it. The AFF seals make use of the Chakra Dispersion Problem to our advantage, by tuning the receiver to the appropriate level to not activate its seals when someone with a transmitter active is within aoe range (which is usually a zone, please don't think any further than that, that leads to bad times).

As an aside, this means that we can scatter surrounding zones with explosives, goo bombs, or any other aoe seals, and use our movement to trigger them.
 
True, the contract wouldn't be able to guarantee enforcement in all cases of breach. But it would still create a paradigm where the jutsu cannot be used publicly (or taught to others or leaked outside the clan or-) without introducing severe punishment, which would both reduce the marginal value of breaching the contract and incentivize any clan who does break the contract to mitigate the KEI's fears (that the jutsu will be spread around and leave the KEI without their comparative advantage) on their own.

Certainly, Hazou ordering a recently-adopted ninja to teach him their personal Earth jutsu and getting away with it is far from ideal, but if Hazou then diligently hoards the jutsu, refusing to share with anyone who might possibly leak it and refusing to use it anywhere word of it might possibly leak, that's a lot better than nothing.

(Moreover, this is a village with mind-readers on payroll. While mind-diving a clan head is beyond the pale, you can mind-dive the ex-KEI ninja to figure out what happened. Hard proof is thus not strictly required here, only reasonable suspicion and a cooperative ex-KEI ninja)

So it's not a silver bullet to all their qualms, but I could see it being potent enough to persuade them even through the muddy reality of paranoia. Especially since, well, they're burning political capital every month they keep up this game of refusing to sell tickets. They have good reason to be adverse to selling tickets, but after a while in the eyes of Asuma and the Clans it probably starts to look like they're misusing the authority they've been given. In light of that, KEI leadership might say that a mostly-serviceable solution is better than no solution.
The issue remains that adopting into a clan is supposed to be a net positive to the clan forever, not just via the ninja's service - the ones with the most to bring to the clan are the ones who get adopted, but the current meta is that they get more from sharing with KEI first. Also, the kids of whoever gets adopted won't be able to benefit from one of their parents' teaching. Making adoption less interesting for both sides doesn't appeal all that much to anyone in the short run and maintains the clan-versus-non-clan barrier in the long run.
And still, you'd be essentially creating a "clan secret for non-clan" status for an unstable entity u, which is legally sound, yes, but nerfs Leaf in general, it makes new clan ninja wary of their own clan and vice-versa, which limits the growth of Leaf's most promising ninja - and still, a useful jutsu known by only a clan or two in Leaf is infinitely preferable, for Asuma, to a useful jutsu that Leaf could have had but is now lost forever.
Perhaps KEI should change its jutsu exchange thing to be something Clan ninja pay through the nose to get while KEI members get it for free instead? In a way replicating Asuma's Will of Fire Contest at a lower scale: share with everyone (but with a fee for some). Hell, they could even be sharing adoption tickets for clan participation in the form of more jutsu they don't know!
 
Chapter 584, Part 1: Unforgivable Beauty

Hazō found himself feeling inexplicably anxious as he walked into Asuma's office. His role, in theory, was just to tell Asuma to summon Enma and then go home. He had nothing to add to Enma's Dragon report, and while he could offer his observations on their Archaeopteryx trip, he didn't even understand what Enma had done there beyond the Monkey Lord's obviously dumbed-down explanation. Why, then, did he have an eerie feeling of foreboding?

Asuma was pacing in front of the window as if sharing those feelings, either not minding or not noticing the chill wind periodically blowing through the room. Though as an elite jōnin, he must surely have noticed Hazō's arrival from the moment he walked up the stairs to this floor, he didn't react to his presence until Hazō gave a polite cough.

"Hazō." He nodded in acknowledgement. "It's good to see you back safe. What do you have for me?"

"It's good to see you too, sir," Hazō said. "Mostly I'm here because Enma wants you to summon him ASAP, and asked me to convey that message. That said, if you don't mind, I'd like to hear his report as well. Despite my c##s^ s@%ves with @#e Dragons, I still don't have anywhere as much intel on them as I'd like."

For a second, Asuma just frowned at him.

"Yes. Yes, of course. I think you should sit down, Hazō.

"Summoning Technique: Enma!"

The puff of displaced air from Enma's arrival knocked a few sheets of paper off Asuma's desk where an anchor-shaped pearl paperweight hadn't quite been pinning them down. Asuma quickly stooped over to put them away before Hazō could see what was on them.

"You were light on your feet, kid," Enma said to Hazō. "I appreciate it."

"Good evening, Enma," Asuma said.

Was it evening on the Seventh Path?

"Hello," Hazō said conservatively.

"You're back sooner than I expected," Asuma said, settling into the Hokage chair. Enma remained standing.

"Fair winds," Enma said by way of explanation. "A little thank-you, maybe. But forget that. It's been a very long day, and you need to hear about the Dragons while I've still got the presence of mind to do it safely."

"What do you mean?" Asuma and Hazō asked simultaneously.

"I'll get to that," Enma said. "Hazō, I know you probably want to go home and be with your lovers--Sage knows I do--but you should stick around and hear this too."

Hazō glanced at Asuma, who gave a nod.

"So the first part of the mission was smooth," Enma began. "The arachnids got me to where I needed to go, the hornets lifted me up, there was a clear view all the way to the butte…"

He broke off.

"Those eyes, though. The hornets had blinded themselves for safety, willingly, because their clan had asked it of them. I was too focused to make much of it at the time, but looking back, it was crazy. Really puts into perspective what kind of sacrifices those clans have been making while we've been sitting back hoping the Dragons don't really exist so we don't have to deal with them.

"I had a couple of minutes to study the Dragons at my leisure thanks to them. It was… Asuma, it was a hell of a thing. They were just like the reports said, and nothing like them at all. I'm one of the finest storytellers on the Seventh Path, maybe the finest now Karakugo's taken his last flight, and I'm struggling to find the words for the sheer alienness of them.

"The glass Dragon is both there and not. Even when it's sitting still, you can't see it. You can just make out bits here and there where it disturbs the air. I'm pretty sure it's got arms and legs and wings, but I couldn't tell you how many or how they fit together. I can tell you that it's more visible when there's something next to it that it can reflect. When the red Dragon passed by it, for a second I could see a shape almost like a tail. That means if we have ninjutsu that goes far enough to reach it, or projectiles, or flyers that can get near without dying, their reflections should give us something to target. My worry is that it also means we won't know about it until it gets close.

"The red Dragon is the creepiest thing I've ever seen, and that's after adjusting to everything I saw at the Arachnid capital. People say 'Dragon', you think big creature that flies, right? No, it's just this blob, this constantly-shifting blob that looks like it's a living pool of blood, and if it has a front or a back, I'm damned if I know how to tell. It's moving even when it's not, and I'm pretty sure touching it is death, because the other Dragons made sure there was plenty of space between them and it—that or it's just extra foul-tempered. Not that I know how they did it, because it kept growing and shrinking so you couldn't tell how big it was supposed to be. There's no way to fight something like that close-up, but it's impossible to know how much of it there is, and my centuries of combat experience tell me it probably regenerates, so you'd have to have a killer of a ranged weapon to do a ton of damage very fast."

"In the Water Country, there's a chakra beast called the gelatinous tesseract," Hazō chipped in. "No matter how much you injure it, all it has to do is spin on its centre of mass and suddenly it's completely unharmed. It takes two ninja to kill it: one to use ninjutsu to pin it in an area, and another to deal constant damage, probably with ninjutsu as well, until it runs out of regeneration."

"I imagine the pinning's going to be the hard part," Enma said. "I'm not even sure it's solid, and not a sentient liquid or something.

"Which is still more than I know about the dark one. I had to stop looking at that one fast because not only could I not see it, if I tried, I stopped being able to see anything else. It didn't even feel like normal blindness—more like total night, with no light from the Firmament whatsoever. There could be anything in there. Worst-case scenario, the way it works is that it's psychic and it knows when someone's looking at it, even miles away."

Hazō opened his mouth to object about chakra diffusion, then closed it again. Dragons did not obey the laws he knew. Maybe they didn't obey any laws, and just happened to fit into certain mental brackets for now, until they were seen from a different angle, or until they felt like it.

"In some ways, though," Enma went on, "it might be the easiest to deal with. We don't know what's inside that shroud of darkness, but we don't need to know in order to bombard the middle of it with ranged attacks. The only issue is how to avoid being blinded, especially if we're screwed badly enough to have to fight more than one Dragon at a time."

"We also won't know if fires off any abilities," Hazō objected. "Scout reports say that anything that goes into that darkness doesn't come out, so it might have a disintegration ability like we saw with the parts of the Dragon I killed, or… well, we just don't know. At least with the blood Dragon, it sounds like we'll be able to defend against its attacks the normal way."

"This whole thing's a big mess of unknowns," Enma said. "Eventually, there's going to come a point where we just have to go in there and trust our ability to improvise, though the more clever tricks like your skyslicers we can bring out first to even the odds, the better."

Asuma seemed to finally recover from the paralysis that had set in as he heard more and more about the horrors on course to devour the Seventh Path and then his own, though his eyes were still a little too wide and his posture was tense like he was expecting to be attacked any second.

"There was… one more Dragon, wasn't there?" he asked.

Enma looked away.

"Yeah. Yeah, there was."

By process of elimination…

"It was beautiful," Enma said heavily.

Asuma nodded, inviting him to continue.

Enma didn't.

"Enma?"

Hazō watched Asuma's expression shift slowly from horror to concern.

"Beautiful," Enma repeated. "It's the damndest thing. I've tried, and I can shape what I feel into an impulse, but the gestalt field just won't transform it into words that somebody else can understand. I can say 'beautiful', because it's vague enough that it can at least point in the right direction, but that's still like… it's like trying to describe a tree by pointing at a discarded sliver of bark in the mud.

"No," he said, "it's like trying to describe the concept of trees—how they support us, how they nourish us, how they give us freedom—with that one piece of bark. I feel like an idiot just saying it."

"Funny," Asuma said, "Kei—the Condor Summoner, that is—talked about it as trying to describe the freedom of a bird in flight by holding up a feather. But there's more to it than that, isn't there?"

Enma was silent for a few seconds more.

"I lost control," he said in a low voice. "You have to understand what that means, Asuma. I'm the Sage-damned Monkey King. I shrugged off Haijakku's strongest genjutsu even after she tricked me into drinking her tea. I tore a quisling messiah into shreds while my summoner, the greatest jōnin of the Tesshin Clan, was busy clawing his eyes out. My will is diamond that makes my staff look like a twig.

"This thing made me lose control. It made me shame myself before my allies. Even now, I'm summoning up its image in my mind so I can take one more futile stab at describing it to you, and just from that I have to resist an urge to go back to it. Every beautiful thing I see for the rest of my life will shine a little less because it will be in that Dragon's shadow.

"It's poison and it needs to die."

"Shit," Asuma muttered. "I'm so sorry, Enma."

"I don't need your pity," Enma snapped. "Just promise me that when you go to see the Dragons—and you need to go, because every pair of eyes is another chance to figure out their weakness—you'll have the hornets tie you up tight so you don't do anything as stupid as I did."

"Got it," Asuma said without any of the pride of a Hokage. "Do you have any tactical insight for when we have to fight it?"

"Blindfolds," Enma said. "Other than that, no fucking idea."

A morose silence settled over the Hokage's Office. None of the three looked at each other.

"All right, enough moping," Enma said eventually. "Let's talk about a different depressing topic so I can at least try to get that damn thing out of my mind. I'm guessing Hazō hasn't told you about our trip to Archaeopteryx Island yet?"

-o-​

Part 2 coming tomorrow. Feel free to begin planning, as any incoming forbidden lore revelations will not be time-sensitive.
 
Soundtrack that I was listening to while reading this and it will probably apply to the second chapter 2

I started from the very beginning if you would wondering
Iris-Iven-Ibis threw 1 100-faced dice. Reason: Direct dragon super form? Total: 97
97 97
 
inexplicably anxious as he walked into Asuma's office
"as he walked into Asuma's office" could be grounds for very explicable anxiety. Of course, he knows this, so this is different to baseline anxiety, and different to healthy ninja paranoia vigilance.
"Yes. Yes, of course. I think you should sit down, Hazō.
Asuma is being nice and now I'm inexplicably anxious too
Asuma quickly stooped over to put them away before Hazō could see what was on them.
They obviously were evidence of him being lupchanz'd to hell and back
"You were light on your feet, kid," Enma said to Hazō. "I appreciate it."
Anything for our husband-by-the-transitive-property
"Fair winds," Enma said by way of explanation.
Also, he bloody well swam the way back when the winds weren't enough. Turns out monkeys are good at swimming.
I'm struggling to find the words for the sheer alienness of them.
HAZŌ: "ineffable"?
ENMA: That doesn't help describe anything, it's just another word to say that you don't have the words to describe it
ASUMA: You disappoint me, Hazō. And here I thought you were on track to becoming a fine literary analysis jōnin...
"In the Water Country, there's a chakra beast called the gelatinous tesseract," Hazō chipped in. "No matter how much you injure it, all it has to do is spin on its centre of mass and suddenly it's completely unharmed."
Well that's just asking for sealmaster-type testing. What about cutting it across more dimensions simultaneously?
It takes two ninja to kill it: one to use ninjutsu to pin it in an area, and another to deal constant damage, probably with ninjutsu as well, until it runs out of regeneration.
"Enma, won't you please pin down the Dragon for me?"
"I'm not even sure it's solid, and not a sentient liquid or something."
We need to get Akane a scroll ASAP. We'll make that sentient liquid a fair amount less liquid, and quite a bit less sentient.
no light from the Firmament whatsoever.
Firmament with a capital F? I see three possibilities: Seventh Path beliefs lead to some kind of reverence for the sky, Seventh Path lore actually has important effects from the sky (wouldn't be surprising), or Enma is a Christian fundamentalist who thinks the sky is the upper portion of the primeval ocean, held up by a physical barrier by God so dry land could appear (would be very surprising).
Dragons did not obey the laws he knew. Maybe they didn't obey any laws
[X] Slap the Dragons with a Di█ney copyright infringement lawsuit
"This whole thing's a big mess of unknowns,"
Well, as far as you know.
waitwaitwait how many types of quisling are there
I tore a quisling messiah into shreds while my summoner, the greatest jōnin of the Tesshin Clan, was busy clawing his eyes out.
Ambiguity? Does this one mean "the greatest jōnin of the Tesshin Clan was busy clawing his own eyes out, but I could tank it no sweat because I'm made of sterner stuff" or "the greatest jōnin of the Tesshin clan clawed the eyes off the quisling messiah because I don't associate with the weak"?
"This thing made me lose control. It made me shame myself before my allies. Even now, I'm summoning up its image in my mind so I can take one more futile stab at describing it to you, and just from that I have to resist an urge to go back to it. Every beautiful thing I see for the rest of my life will shine a little less because it will be in that Dragon's shadow.

"It's poison and it needs to die."
OOF. Well that's horrifying on several levels. Let's hope that goes away when we kill the Dragon.
"All right, enough moping," Enma said eventually. "Let's talk about a different depressing topic so I can at least try to get that damn thing out of my mind. I'm guessing Hazō hasn't told you about our trip to Archaeopteryx Island yet?"
"You were sad but now you'll cry" you're evil, Velorien, you know that?
 
"It's good to see you too, sir," Hazō said. "Mostly I'm here because Enma wants you to summon him ASAP, and asked me to convey that message. That said, if you don't mind, I'd like to hear his report as well. Despite my c##s^ s@%ves with @#e Dragons, I still don't have anywhere as much intel on them as I'd like."

For a second, Asuma just frowned at him.

"Yes. Yes, of course. I think you should sit down, Hazō.

HAZOU: (has a stroke halfway through his sentence)
ASUMA: …you good?
HAZOU: Of course, why wouldn't I be?
 
"It's good to see you too, sir," Hazō said. "Mostly I'm here because Enma wants you to summon him ASAP, and asked me to convey that message. That said, if you don't mind, I'd like to hear his report as well. Despite my c##s^ s@%ves with @#e Dragons, I still don't have anywhere as much intel on them as I'd like."

Lots of tactical goodies we can mine for information.

"You were light on your feet, kid," Enma said to Hazō. "I appreciate it."

I'm glad that Enma is praising us in front of our boss. How much is because he is a nice guy, and how much is because he wants us to like him? Probably more on the nice front, Hazou isn't quite important enough for Enma to care about manipulating.

"Those eyes, though. The hornets had blinded themselves for safety, willingly, because their clan had asked it of them. I was too focused to make much of it at the time, but looking back, it was crazy. Really puts into perspective what kind of sacrifices those clans have been making while we've been sitting back hoping the Dragons don't really exist so we don't have to deal with them.

...How many hornets capable of doing the job do we have?

"The glass Dragon is both there and not. Even when it's sitting still, you can't see it. You can just make out bits here and there where it disturbs the air. I'm pretty sure it's got arms and legs and wings, but I couldn't tell you how many or how they fit together. I can tell you that it's more visible when there's something next to it that it can reflect. When the red Dragon passed by it, for a second I could see a shape almost like a tail. That means if we have ninjutsu that goes far enough to reach it, or projectiles, or flyers that can get near without dying, their reflections should give us something to target. My worry is that it also means we won't know about it until it gets close.

...Does it need to be a light source, a creature, or any object? I'm concerned about what it can reflect, because if it reflects objects, shouldn't it reflect the ground? If it only reflects creatures, that could be a master effect. The simplest option will be to color the air. Release a gas or a smoke, something to make it easier to see.

"Beautiful," Enma repeated. "It's the damndest thing. I've tried, and I can shape what I feel into an impulse, but the gestalt field just won't transform it into words that somebody else can understand. I can say 'beautiful', because it's vague enough that it can at least point in the right direction, but that's still like… it's like trying to describe a tree by pointing at a discarded sliver of bark in the mud.

Are we sure this is actually a set of qualia arising from physical characteristics, or is it just some Jonin-aura type thing where the concept of beauty just gets written onto your brain?

A blindfold might be unnecessary. A mirror might be sufficient, or a set of mirrors.


--

What are these dragons? They don't seem terribly smart, and they keep staying still. But they aren't instinctive animals, because they changed behavior when we killed one.
 
What are these dragons? They don't seem terribly smart, and they keep staying still. But they aren't instinctive animals, because they changed behavior when we killed one.

What does anything need to do? We haven't seen a huge amount of evidence Dragons need to eat, so if they're entropically-immortal and not really into securing territory for themselves, I don't know what they would even get up to when there isn't any threat or prey in the immediate area. Maybe they've got orders from the Dragon Boss to wait around until the rest of the Clan is back from the other side of the Seal, then they can start the Crusade.
 
Well, for the beautiful one the answer is either something that can harm it withouth it being sentient or a mari stile genjutsu that disasociate the feeling of something and the knowledge of the thing.
for the glass and night dragons i wonder if we can contain them. make a radius around them and start shrinking it ultil they are dead regarless of their abilieties; maybe sky slicers, but it would have to be reworked so it can be turned off and moved sistematically. also if they can jump or flight that is a lot of area to cover.

ultimately i think our current seals are insuficient besides maybe for the angelic one.
 
Hazou isn't quite important enough for Enma to care about manipulating
Hazō killed a Dragon. With help, etc of course. But Hazō killed a Dragon. He's an asset. He makes weapons. Enma might even have heard about EM nuke, indirectly.
In general, having an ally is good. In particular, a Summoner who is an impressive master in his own right of the "forbidden art" of sealing is very good to have as an ally.
Plus, a sealmaster is necessary. And Enma saw (and heard about) the other kind of advanced-enough sealmaster in the form of Orochimaru.
 
Chapter 584, Part 1: Unforgivable Beauty
HYPE HYPE HYPE HYPE
Hazō found himself feeling inexplicably anxious as he walked into Asuma's office. His role, in theory, was just to tell Asuma to summon Enma and then go home. He had nothing to add to Enma's Dragon report
YEEEEEEEEEEES
while he could offer his observations on their Archaeopteryx trip, he didn't even understand what Enma had done there beyond the Monkey Lord's obviously dumbed-down explanation. Why, then, did he have an eerie feeling of foreboding?
Wait, what?
"It's good to see you too, sir," Hazō said. "Mostly I'm here because Enma wants you to summon him ASAP, and asked me to convey that message. That said, if you don't mind, I'd like to hear his report as well. Despite my c##s^ s@%ves with @#e Dragons, I still don't have anywhere as much intel on them as I'd like."
But doesn't this....

Nevermind I really don't care! Bring on the reaction baby!!
"Yes. Yes, of course. I think you should sit down, Hazō.
Why?
"Fair winds," Enma said by way of explanation. "A little thank-you, maybe. But forget that. It's been a very long day, and you need to hear about the Dragons while I've still got the presence of mind to do it safely."

"What do you mean?" Asuma and Hazō asked simultaneously.
This is promising!
"I'll get to that," Enma said. "Hazō, I know you probably want to go home and be with your lovers--Sage knows I do--but you should stick around and hear this too."

Hazō glanced at Asuma, who gave a nod.
Enma's opinion of us certainly shot up...
"So the first part of the mission was smooth," Enma began. "The arachnids got me to where I needed to go, the hornets lifted me up, there was a clear view all the way to the butte…
smiles in final confirmation
"Those eyes, though. The hornets had blinded themselves for safety, willingly, because their clan had asked it of them. I was too focused to make much of it at the time, but looking back, it was crazy. Really puts into perspective what kind of sacrifices those clans have been making while we've been sitting back hoping the Dragons don't really exist so we don't have to deal with them.
This is everything we wanted from this and more. Fuck yeah! Complete 180 on opinion.
"I had a couple of minutes to study the Dragons at my leisure thanks to them. It was… Asuma, it was a hell of a thing. They were just like the reports said, and nothing like them at all. I'm one of the finest storytellers on the Seventh Path, maybe the finest now Karakugo's taken his last flight, and I'm struggling to find the words for the sheer alienness of them.
First of all, this is awesome. Second of all, who was Karakugo?
"The glass Dragon is both there and not. Even when it's sitting still, you can't see it. You can just make out bits here and there where it disturbs the air. I'm pretty sure it's got arms and legs and wings, but I couldn't tell you how many or how they fit together. I can tell you that it's more visible when there's something next to it that it can reflect. When the red Dragon passed by it, for a second I could see a shape almost like a tail. That means if we have ninjutsu that goes far enough to reach it, or projectiles, or flyers that can get near without dying, their reflections should give us something to target. My worry is that it also means we won't know about it until it gets close.

"The red Dragon is the creepiest thing I've ever seen, and that's after adjusting to everything I saw at the Arachnid capital. People say 'Dragon', you think big creature that flies, right? No, it's just this blob, this constantly-shifting blob that looks like it's a living pool of blood, and if it has a front or a back, I'm damned if I know how to tell. It's moving even when it's not, and I'm pretty sure touching it is death, because the other Dragons made sure there was plenty of space between them and it—that or it's just extra foul-tempered. Not that I know how they did it, because it kept growing and shrinking so you couldn't tell how big it was supposed to be. There's no way to fight something like that close-up, but it's impossible to know how much of it there is, and my centuries of combat experience tell me it probably regenerates, so you'd have to have a killer of a ranged weapon to do a ton of damage very fast."
Ah. Fuck. That extra info is properly horrifying.
"In the Water Country, there's a chakra beast called the gelatinous tesseract," Hazō chipped in.
wat

If this is considered normal, what the Fuck is going on in Bear?
Asuma seemed to finally recover from the paralysis that had set in as he heard more and more about the horrors on course to devour the Seventh Path and then his own, though his eyes were still a little too wide and his posture was tense like he was expecting to be attacked any second.
This is what the grin on my face looks like right now:



I love this so much
"There was… one more Dragon, wasn't there?" he asked.
Heh. Just when I thought my smile couldn't stretch any wider. Jesus Velorien it's like you made this chapter for me in a blender. I should have waited to read it until next Wednesday so I could treat it as a birthday gift.
Enma looked away.

"Yeah. Yeah, there was."

By process of elimination…

"It was beautiful," Enma said heavily.

Asuma nodded, inviting him to continue.

Enma didn't.

"Enma?"

Hazō watched Asuma's expression shift slowly from horror to concern.
And I bet even more mounting horror once it clicks that this was able to affect Enma the Monkey Boss just by being observed!
"Beautiful," Enma repeated. "It's the damndest thing. I've tried, and I can shape what I feel into an impulse, but the gestalt field just won't transform it into words that somebody else can understand. I can say 'beautiful', because it's vague enough that it can at least point in the right direction, but that's still like… it's like trying to describe a tree by pointing at a discarded sliver of bark in the mud.

"No," he said, "it's like trying to describe the concept of trees—how they support us, how they nourish us, how they give us freedom—with that one piece of bark. I feel like an idiot just saying it."
Have you ever shivered with a manic grin on your face? It's a weird feeling.
"Funny," Asuma said, "Kei—the Condor Summoner, that is—talked about it as trying to describe the freedom of a bird in flight by holding up a feather. But there's more to it than that, isn't there?"
Hopefully Hazō will point out that this also happened to every hornet that saw this Dragon. And, more importantly, that none of them who saw it again ever returned. Ruri and Enma cannot see this Dragon again. Asuma needs to know that.
"I lost control," he said in a low voice. "You have to understand what that means, Asuma. I'm the Sage-damned Monkey King. I shrugged off Haijakku's strongest genjutsu even after she tricked me into drinking her tea. I tore a quisling messiah into shreds while my summoner, the greatest jōnin of the Tesshin Clan, was busy clawing his eyes out. My will is diamond that makes my staff look like a twig.

"This thing made me lose control. It made me shame myself before my allies. Even now, I'm summoning up its image in my mind so I can take one more futile stab at describing it to you, and just from that I have to resist an urge to go back to it. Every beautiful thing I see for the rest of my life will shine a little less because it will be in that Dragon's shadow.
....
.........
.................



well, fuck
"It's poison and it needs to die."

"Shit," Asuma muttered. "I'm so sorry, Enma."

"I don't need your pity," Enma snapped. "Just promise me that when you go to see the Dragons—and you need to go, because every pair of eyes is another chance to figure out their weakness—you'll have the hornets tie you up tight so you don't do anything as stupid as I did."

"Got it," Asuma said without any of the pride of a Hokage. "Do you have any tactical insight for when we have to fight it?"

"Blindfolds," Enma said. "Other than that, no fucking idea."
There was literally no better way to get Asuma on board this project wholeheartedly than what just happened.

Part 2 coming tomorrow. Feel free to begin planning, as any incoming forbidden lore revelations will not be time-sensitive.
There's MORE?!
 
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