Remove ads

Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

Reader mode
MMKII said:
snip
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I hard agree with wanting this aggressively compartmentalized from Orochimaru. Ideally, the first he knows of it is Jiriya knocking on his door. And I mean a strong Jiriya.

Asuma's absence at AMITY probably forces us to slow down, my preferences be damned. I'd like to loop him in ASAP but we can spend whatever time comes between now and his return doing so.

I'm not worried about Ma and Pa Toad leaking anything. For one, who are they gonna tell? They don't talk to other clans (they aren't at the Conclave, right?) and they're smart and at least somewhat loyal to Noburi. For another, they love Jiriya like a son and they want him back, so everything that they do will be working towards that. I think that they'll likely understand exactly how sensitive this is an proceed accordingly - namely, telling no one and doing nothing to jeopardize Hazo's personal safety or wellbeing. Thirdly, IMO we should approach them before Asuma. They know Orochimaru (and they're read in on the current state of affairs, Noburi brought them up to date) and they give generally good advice, as people with pretty intimate knowledge of Leaf politics at a high level. I'd rather go to Asuma with verified information he understands is lethally serious, at least.

What would you want, concretely, before talking to Ma and Pa? Talking to Asuma? Is there a reason you believe he's less of a risk than Ma and Pa? (Specifically, I don't understand how Ma and Pa would tell anyone who'd then tell Orochimaru or another party who will hurt us.)
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
are a few details we can probably cross-reference with the Daizen chapter, like the colour of the sky, but assuming this is accurate information it's a mixed bag. Narrowing down our primary search area to lakeshores is a great boon, but the lack of any company is evidence against the idea that spawning in Naraka follows a one-to-one mapping. Heading in the approximate direction of Nagi Island once we enter Naraka is probably still our best bet, but if the guys from Nagi Island didn't get dropped close to each other then Jiraiya could be quite a distance away. And we don't have much time.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Ideally we can get another data point from Tsunade blasting us. I don't think we'll be able to do this over and over, but we can try to build up some things like the position of the sun to help navigate.
 
FaintlySorcerous said:
What would you want, concretely, before talking to Ma and Pa? Talking to Asuma? Is there a reason you believe he's less of a risk than Ma and Pa? (Specifically, I don't understand how Ma and Pa would tell anyone who'd then tell Orochimaru or another party who will hurt us.)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Ideally we have each conversation be its own main focus in (mostly) consecutive plans, that are also either doing something else that is related or accomplishing some other objective like sealing.

(We also need to check out the Great Seal with Kagome).

Once we get the info confirmed or denied from Ma and Pa, it likely starts being a "Mari and Noburi and Hazou definitely know some sensitive stuff but what else is new, we can play ball with that" situation.
 
It's much too early in the project to go see Asuma about this. We currently have ZERO results, just a hallucination we can't prove is real.
 
I think that completely excluding Orochimaru is not wise; it is entirely possible that he could be a boon to us in this. Instead, do some actual investigation. Talk to Kabuto about his and Orochimaru's beliefs on death and the philosophy therein, get Tsunade on-side for this to help us interface with him...

Whatever the case, I have to believe that there was some amount of trust between the three of them, or Jiraiya would not have had us give Orochimaru a pardon. If Tsunade thinks he'll play it straight, I'd consider looping him in.

Anyway, before talking to Ma and Pa about this we should feel them out for their thoughts on necromancy in general.
 
Frankly, even if we can't pull off necromancy, just being able to communicate would be a game-changer. Leaf lost so much institutional knowledge, if we can find a way to get tutelage from the after-life, even just locations of dead-drops, stockpiles and agents, it would matter so much to rebuilding.
 
Cariyaga said:
Talk to Kabuto about his and Orochimaru's beliefs on death and the philosophy therein
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm a bit leery about this. We know Kabuto goes straight to Orochimaru when he detects something worth Oro's attention, and we also know Kabuto has a crazy good Deceit score. It feels quite possible to me that he'd suss out that we're hiding something, that we aren't just talking abstract speculation. A few pointed questions later and we could have Oro paying us a visit before the night's out.
Whatever the case, I have to believe that there was some amount of trust between the three of them, or Jiraiya would not have had us give Orochimaru a pardon. If Tsunade thinks he'll play it straight, I'd consider looping him in.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This I have more faith in, though. I fully believe that Tsunade can make Orochimaru play nice if she wants to, so if we have her support for project necromancy it should be perfectly fine to bring Orochimaru on board.

Heck, at that point I'd also support making it official Tower-authorized Leaf business with a mandate from Asuma and stuff. Top secret of course, but if we're reaching out for big guns support like Tsunade and Orochimaru I see no reason to deny ourselves the kind of support only the Tower can bring. And if we've already persuaded two Sannin, Asuma's not likely to brush us off as delusional.
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
I'm a bit leery about this. We know Kabuto goes straight to Orochimaru when he detects something worth Oro's attention, and we also know Kabuto has a crazy good Deceit score. It feels quite possible to me that he'd suss out that we're hiding something, that we aren't just talking abstract speculation. A few pointed questions later and we could have Oro paying us a visit before the night's out.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
If it was us doing it, yes. If Mari was doing it, even if he figured out that she was asking for a reason... what of it? She's a jounin whose husband's dead, of course she'd want him back.

She's not like us, and actually willing to do things to make that happen on her own :V
 
Cariyaga said:
If it was us doing it, yes. If Mari was doing it, even if he figured out that she was asking for a reason... what of it? She's a jounin whose husband's dead, of course she'd want him back.

She's not like us, and actually willing to do things to make that happen on her own :V
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yeah, you're right, Mari can handle Kabuto. Hazou's the guy who'd make the most sense to wander up and start asking about the philosophy of life and death for no good reason, but Mari's whole skillset is based around controlling information in social encounters, so she'll be able to get the job done, easy.
 
Why is nobody considering the certainty that it was not Jiraiya, but a soul crusher, slowly digesting Jiraiya's personality into oblivion from inside? I'm sure it'll have a swell time frolicking on the living when we "rescue" it.

Shane_357 said:
Frankly, even if we can't pull off necromancy, just being able to communicate would be a game-changer. Leaf lost so much institutional knowledge, if we can find a way to get tutelage from the after-life, even just locations of dead-drops, stockpiles and agents, it would matter so much to rebuilding.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Fighting for the shreds of your memories in the afterlife, then a hale voice asks: "Hey where did you stock the last ink shipment? Also please kindly recite from memory the layout distribution of the warehouse, thanks"

MfD, where even hell can be optimized hellish!
 
I have to agree with Ma and Pa being less of a risk than Asuma for initial conversations, given the magnitude of our increasingly likely and actionable discovery - and the other people it can pull in.
Besides the off chance that Ma and Pa immediately eviscerate Hazou for breaking the cycle of life or something, their literally ancient knowledge and strong love for Jiraiya all but guarantees significant support.


About Asuma, uh...
The only reason we're still such a point man for the Dragonwar is because of the scarcity of summoning contracts, our optional position on the seventh path, and because our practically unique approach to a practically unique bloodline (as far as Leaf is concerned) downloaded the Seal into Hazou's brain. Oh, and effective sealmaster.
ALL of those unlikely circumstances coalesced into a situation where Hazou, the weird explosion guy, had to be the point to save reality.

None of those are true for project necromancy.
I fully expect that Oro, for example, will find it trivial to take control of the project. Now, it doesn't matter to me who does the job as long as a good job is done, but can you look at Orochimaru's snake face and believe that anything good will come of it?

It's likely inevitable that Asuma will need to be brought in. However, I hope we can make our hand as strong as possible first, to prevent anyone malicious or insane from taking away the possibility that the Icha Icha books will continue.

Don't even get me started on Ami.
Ami WILL pounce on the biggest gold mine of "favors" to exist since the Sage peaced out of the Paths. Can you imagine the "favors" she can seek to extract, from the living and the dead, for resurrecting people?
And if Oro can take control of Project Necromancy, Ami (the person gradually taking control of the village and doing it while smirking at Asuma's face) will do it in a heartbeat.

Everything aside, I sincerely do not want her to taint what is 1) Possibly the most important thing anyone has ever done in the setting (reproducible resurrection) 2) The most emotionally and strategically cathartic project we've undertaken in some time. The last time I was this excited about the sheer greatness of what we were doing was back around the Skywalkers and Jiraiya's adoption chapters. That, and possibly everything happening during/around the exams.

Please do not give the keys to the afterlife to the Funny Chaos Girl.
 
Last edited:
I don't think we should make assumptions about people supporting resurrection.

People are dumb about that IRL, much less in a setting as back-asswards as the EN.
 
My suggestion for what to tell Naruto is

"I had a vision of Jiraiya, but I need to verify some information from said vision before I can know whether it was real, or just me hallucinating what I wanted to see. By the way, you're welcome for dinner."
 
We should try Astral projection a few more times. If we can contact a dead person on another Path, then doing it on the Human Path to living people shouldn't be that different.

Maybe we can try it with low chakra people first?

Forget Radiowaves, spirit communication it is!
 
On immediate political ramifications that can result in our death or attainment:

Internally, the Hagoromo will be badly impacted. Religious types often rely on their monopoly on the afterlife, and the subversion of such historically caused violent reactions.

Externally, this puts Asuma on a whole other paradigm. Theory: If resurrection, even only for the most powerful of ninja, is engineered into a reproducible process, Asuma would no longer need nor want world peace - unless it is under his heel. In this scenario, Necromancy gives Leaf an incredible advantage in a world where few ninja can determine nations' strategies, and now Leaf has turned their most precious resource into a renewable one. In this case, AMITY only serves to limit Asuma, whose world conquest has just become a matter of time.

The most important part is that it doesn't matter if the above is true. Everyone else who isn't Leaf will see the above as a likely-enough doomsday scenario. This includes other villages, possibly Pein's boy band, and finally Ami.
As such, it is highly probable that even the hint of Project Necrodancer will lead to the above actors enacting the survival game plan of: Suborn or sabotage.

So please. OPSEC.
 
Last edited:
Velorien said:
Hazō: Empathy 21 - 9 = 12 vs TN ??
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
TN ??, the roll that launched necromancy.

Note Jiraiya's appearance in as much detail as possible. What can be learned from the damage to his clothes and length of his hair? Pull Shikamaru for inferences. Daizen was naked when he died and dying every few seconds. Can try to make guesses about if memory deterioration is tied to death count. Is Jiraiya on his 'first' death or dying of starvation in cycles?

Work on raising Hazō's volume for the next contact attempt. Is it tied to Jōnin aura? If Jiraiya can hear us he can make a landmark. Might be possible to send care packages by killing people. If Hazō died while projected would he appear near Jiraiya?

Either there is an army of Snowflakes conquering the afterlife or Snowflake has no soul. Getting her her own body by ensouling her, killing her then pulling her from Naraka is appropriately metal for a member of the kittensphere.
 
eaglejarl said:
To his front, Mari. Wrapped in the never-before worn wedding dress that had been in her closet since Jiraiya left for the Chūnin Exams the first time. He hair was wavy from a quick and not-yet-dried wash in the women's baths where the giggling and suds battling were ongoing.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
A wedding dress? Are we trying to scare Jiraiya's ghost away???



FaintlySorcerous said:
Asuma's absence at AMITY probably forces us to slow down, my preferences be damned. I'd like to loop him in ASAP but we can spend whatever time comes between now and his return doing so.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Um, I just noticed we may have a slight problem. Asuma is Hokage. Jiraiya was Hokage. The usual way of someone not being Hokage anymore is, of course, to die. What happens if both Asuma and Jiraiya want the hat? That would be a massive loss of legitimacy for Asuma, even if Jiraiya can't fight.

More importantly, what happens when Asuma realizes he could be deposed/killed if Jiraiya comes back? We may have just done our biggest treason so far.

I think the best thing we can do is to emphasize how weak, chakra-less, and memory-addled Jiraiya appeared, when we relay this information to Asuma. A Jiraiya that is missing most of his memories and can't fight is much less of a threat to Asuma than a full-fledged, and fully dangerous, Jiraiya.




Perdis said:
Internally, the Hagoromo will be badly impacted. Religious types often rely on their monopoly on the afterlife, and the subversion of such historically caused violent reactions.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The good news is that if we can bring back a few old Hagoromo clan heads, Ritsuo stands a very good chance of being deposed, and his legitimacy will be greatly weakened even if he stays clan head.
 
Sentient Tree said:
Um, I just noticed we may have a slight problem. Asuma is Hokage. Jiraiya was Hokage. The usual way of someone not being Hokage anymore is, of course, to die. What happens if both Asuma and Jiraiya want the hat? That would be a massive
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Errrr, Hiruzen and minato? Like someone will need to step up or down, and J-man is likely to say "to hell with the paperwork you do it untile we get your dad back boy".
 
It's only an existential threat to Asuma if he wants to hold on to power. As far as we can tell, Asuma is only hokage because he felt the need to be the man on the job.
 
Yeah, lets be real, between keeping the hat or going back to the pre Nagi days of dating kurenai and having fun, what to you think assuma would want to do?
 
Sentient Tree said:
I think the best thing we can do is to emphasize how weak, chakra-less, and memory-addled Jiraiya appeared, when we relay this information to Asuma. A Jiraiya that is missing most of his memories and can't fight is much less of a threat to Asuma than a full-fledged, and fully dangerous, Jiraiya.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I personally don't see why we should tell Asuma. He doesn't have any specialty to help the project and I don't think he has any resources that are helpful either.

Sentient Tree said:
The good news is that if we can bring back a few old Hagoromo clan heads, Ritsuo stands a very good chance of being deposed, and his legitimacy will be greatly weakened even if he stays clan head.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Let's not bring back reactionary religious leaders who could lie about what actually happened in the afterlife's and use that to further entrench their shitty believes until we have the situation well in hand
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top