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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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We could just work in 3 man teams per job.

The other team holding back to do other stuff/swoop in for a rescue at the last second.

We'll need some sort of communication though... seal-notebooks, that copy what you write in one into the other?
 
Now I'm getting buyers remorse about the whole Hot Springs mission. Why did I make that plan? We have absolutely no in-game reason to take shifty contracts when we have other stuff to do. (Actually I know why I made the plan, my original idea got axed and I needed something against the cult infiltration thing and people were against taking things slow and gathering info.)

The traveling through Fire is risky, but honestly if we can't travel around at all, how are we supposed to get anything done in the quest? (The suicide option Inoue remarked back then was the one where we cut straight through the middle of Fire, right past Hidden Leaf.)

Oh well, we should have plenty of storage scrolls prepared in case we run into Leaf patrols, so that's a plus.


Traiden said:
Our friends are fully actualized people, able to make rational choices and plans on their own. We just need to figure out a goal that the group as a whole can work towards that is acceptable to us all.
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Fully actualized? Did they join the Hydra when we were not looking?

There are problems with splitting the team and they have nothing to do with whether our teammates will act stupid or not. None of the genin are powerful enough to prance around without Mari as an escort. A chuunin Stealth team will own our genin while we sleep and they can also track us without us noticing. Not to mention we have zero protection from genjutsu besides Mari. Combat with only half the team also sounds suicidal.

If you wan't efficiency and team split shenanigans the better option is to work on bigger projects or missions together as separate parties. Alternatively have one half of the team hold down a fort somewhere doing research while a task team goes out to do stuff.
 
Twofold said:
Now I'm getting buyers remorse about the whole Hot Springs mission. Why did I make that plan? We have absolutely no in-game reason to take shifty contracts when we have other stuff to do. (Actually I know why I made the plan, my original idea got axed and I needed something against the cult infiltration thing and people were against taking things slow and gathering info.)
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Mate, I don't have a problem with going to Hot Springs. I have a problem with prancing between Fire and Mist territories.
 
I think @eaglejarl and @Velorien should consider longer voting periods. They are apparently basically doing this whole thing by themselves now, and every voting period feels really chaotic now that we have zero guiding goal right now.
 
faflec said:
Mate, I don't have a problem with going to Hot Springs. I have a problem with prancing between Fire and Mist territories.
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There are no good alternatives to that. Everything else is just as, if not more, risky.

The circling around would've landed us in Fire anyway, since we can't go through Rain. If we dodge to the other side, we would have to go through Wind -> Claw -> Earth before getting back on track. Then we would have to cross Iron, that probably still has ninja activity in case any straggles come crawling back. All of that would just take more time and give us more chances of getting caught.

Crossing by water is also risky. We will be low on chakra and there has to be some sort of surveillance network along the waters of Mist and Fire. At least the forest areas block the line of sight.
 
ChronOblivion said:
I think @eaglejarl and @Velorien should consider longer voting periods. They are apparently basically doing this whole thing by themselves now, and every voting period feels really chaotic now that we have zero guiding goal right now.
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If writers need more time between updates, that's one thing, but I'd rather not ask for longer voting periods for our sake. I don't think it will help us to develop goals, or make things less chaotic.
 
Why not have Mari run a live test on half the group to determine if we could function at half the size we currently are. If we could obtain some form of metrics and have Mari, as the only Jonin of the group, the officiating authority we might be able to get a better handle on how the world at large might react to us on just our abilities and not on our missing ninja status.
 
ChronOblivion said:
They are apparently basically doing this whole thing by themselves now, and every voting period feels really chaotic now that we have zero guiding goal right now.
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It's not really the lack of goal that's the problem here. It's that we are trying to balance being active for activity's sake instead of focusing purely on the goals we have (Trade Empire, Mom). The latter requires taking things slow, doing research and laying groundwork. That is kinda boring though and there's this constant pressure in the background that we need to do exciting things.

Maybe we should just bite the bullet and be boring for awhile. It's not like the problem with VHiTM was that we were doing boring things, it was that we were not doing anything at all.
 
Twofold said:
There are no good alternatives to that. Everything else is just as, if not more, risky.
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We could have gone someplace else. Wave is closer. Or we could've gone to Sea, check out those ninja pirates. Or we could've traveled to Degarashi, check out the scene there. Tea still has things to offer, I'm sure.
It's not like that HS mission was mandatory.
Twofold said:
Crossing by water is also risky. We will be low on chakra and there has to be some sort of surveillance network along the waters of Mist and Fire. At least the forest areas block the line of sight.
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We could've ran just out of sight of the shore, and unless the sea here is Dead Nobby would have plenty of sources to replenish his chakra even as we leech off him.
Twofold said:
It's not really the lack of goal that's the problem here. It's that we are trying to balance being active for activity's sake instead of focusing purely on the goals we have (Trade Empire, Mom). The latter requires taking things slow, doing research and laying groundwork. That is kinda boring though and there's this constant pressure in the background that we need to do exciting things.

Maybe we should just bite the bullet and be boring for awhile. It's not like the problem with VHiTM was that we were doing boring things, it was that we were not doing anything at all.
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Problem is, our long term plans require us to have Jounin skills, and those cost XP. XP we can't earn if all we do is boring stuff like talking and research. As long as we're taking a break, we're not getting better.
Right now we can research macerator (and probably casino seals) and Kei can work on getting her summons. Everything else requires XP investment, which we don't really have. (Can't research PMYF 2 bc going by QM word, it will require more than 12 sealing to get done safely)
 
Twofold said:
It's not really the lack of goal that's the problem here. It's that we are trying to balance being active for activity's sake instead of focusing purely on the goals we have (Trade Empire, Mom). The latter requires taking things slow, doing research and laying groundwork. That is kinda boring though and there's this constant pressure in the background that we need to do exciting things.
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I am completely supportive of a strategy where we just focus on long term goals until the QMs decide to use the pangolin or Jiraya to drop a mandatory quest on us.

Though I think we should change "trade empire" to a broader "economic/political power" goal. The latter is what we need for our end game goals, the former is just one possible means. Limiting those means artificially in our discussions seems counterproductive.
 
For economic/political power.

We could go to a country without a hidden village and start teaching civilian chakra users.

Given their relatively low levels of chakra, genjutsu is probably going to be where we'll focus on. From there we can transition the country's main export to entertainment. Imagine genjutsu VR.
 
Muer'ci said:
We could have gone someplace else.
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I was replying to faflec, meaning you should read that as "If we want to go to Hot Springs there are no good alternatives."

If we can travel to Wave safely, we can travel to Hot Springs safely. They are close enough that the difference is pretty minimal.

Muer'ci said:
We could've ran just out of sight of the shore
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And get spotted from the shore? How is that any safer than just traveling over land? We are not the only ones that can Water Walk.

Muer'ci said:
Problem is, our long term plans require us to have Jounin skills, and those cost XP. XP we can't earn if all we do is boring stuff like talking and research. As long as we're taking a break, we're not getting better.
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I'm pretty sure Snooping Agency would've landed us a decent amount of XP. So would probably figuring out a way to send message to mom and executing it.

Jello_Raptor said:
Though I think we should change "trade empire" to a broader "economic/political power" goal. The latter is what we need for our end game goals, the former is just one possible means. Limiting those means artificially in our discussions seems counterproductive.
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Economical/Political sounds vague and doesn't really give us the "What's the next step" the way a tangible goal like Trade Empire does. If you have another tangible goal or idea to suggest I'm all ears, but it's not like we'll ignore an opportunity for more political power just because we are currently pursuing the trade empire thing.

Having high order goals is good, but you need the low order ones if you actually want to get something done.
 
Muer'ci said:
If writers need more time between updates, that's one thing, but I'd rather not ask for longer voting periods for our sake. I don't think it will help us to develop goals, or make things less chaotic.
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Yeah, plus we'll just wait even longer before having the serious discussion. We need to break the procrastination habit.

Jello_Raptor said:
Though I think we should change "trade empire" to a broader "economic/political power" goal. The latter is what we need for our end game goals, the former is just one possible means. Limiting those means artificially in our discussions seems counterproductive.
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I think this is a good point - our plans should definitely include getting local leaders into our pocket, leveraging financial resources to do so, and leveraging political resources to get more economic power.

Also I finished your goddamn rec yesterday, thanks for straight up eating two days of my life :p

Ridiculously Average Guy said:
For economic/political power.

We could go to a country without a hidden village and start teaching civilian chakra users.

Given their relatively low levels of chakra, genjutsu is probably going to be where we'll focus on. From there we can transition the country's main export to entertainment. Imagine genjutsu VR.
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"Hey Kage, we heard rumors someone was training civvies how to use chakra so we checked it out and it's true"
"Send five billion jounin to hunt them down"
 
Twofold said:
It's not really the lack of goal that's the problem here. It's that we are trying to balance being active for activity's sake instead of focusing purely on the goals we have (Trade Empire, Mom). The latter requires taking things slow, doing research and laying groundwork. That is kinda boring though and there's this constant pressure in the background that we need to do exciting things.
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Well it's like, you don't play D&D not to fight monsters, you don't play VtM not to be manipulated by jerk elders, and you don't play Shadowrun not to go on runs. Even "rational" Naruto is based on an exciting ninja world where people get into exciting fights and pull off daring missions.

Success for me would be being real awesome.
 
OliWhail said:
I think this is a good point - our plans should definitely include getting local leaders into our pocket, leveraging financial resources to do so, and leveraging political resources to get more economic power.
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And yet the thought of organizing so much as a teenage street gang had some posters in this thread telling me that the Villages have spies everywhere and would surely be noticed. There seems to be a definite disconnect between these grandiose plans and doing something that actually risks exposure and failure.
 
Briefvoice said:
And yet the thought of organizing so much as a teenage street gang had some posters in this thread telling me that the Villages have spies everywhere and would surely be noticed.
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Lets not misrepresent what people were complaining about. The problem was with introducing summons to the mix and the need to keep them hidden. It's not like people are against organizing street gangs for informant networks or anything, as long as we have the means to make use of them and resources for the upkeep. (This is kinda what the trade empire plan would ultimately enable us to do)
 
Twofold said:
If we can travel to Wave safely, we can travel to Hot Springs safely. They are close enough that the difference is pretty minimal.
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Going to Wave means less time spent in Fire. And it's close enough to Noodle we could've cut through there while skipping that bottleneck.

Twofold said:
And get spotted from the shore? How is that any safer than just traveling over land? We are not the only ones that can Water Walk.
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...traveling out of sight of the shore would not get us spotted from the shore. If you mean that we might be spotted by someone from the sea, I'm pretty sure sea patrols are more rare than land ones, and a boat is more noticeable than a person.
Besides, we have an advantage when it comes to WW. Noburi's chakra reserves+his ability to drain more from sea life+his ability to share mean we can stay afloat for way longer than even average Jounin. WW plays to our pretty unique strength.

Running across Fire, even with avoiding Konoha, gives me uncomfortable flashbacks to the start of the quest.

*bad feeling intensifies*
 
Twofold said:
Lets not misrepresent what people were complaining about. The problem was with introducing summons to the mix and the need to keep them hidden. It's not like people are against organizing street gangs for informant networks or anything, as long as we have the means to make use of them and resources for the upkeep. (This is kinda what the trade empire plan would ultimately enable us to do)
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That was your concern. Someone else worried that even without pangolin involvement organization on the street was the sort of thing that "they" would be looking for. (Too lazy to go back and find the post.)

Is there an actual post outlining this "trade empire" plan in more detail? It seems to have been discussed much earlier in the thread and referenced only as "let's build a trade empire" in more recent posts. I'd be willing to try and do an analysis suggesting discrete steps to take to realize it if I better understood it.
 
Briefvoice said:
That was your concern. Someone else worried that even without pangolin involvement organization on the street was the sort of thing that "they" would be looking for. (Too lazy to go back and find the post.)

Is there an actual post outlining this "trade empire" plan in more detail? It seems to have been discussed much earlier in the thread and referenced only as "let's build a trade empire" in more recent posts. I'd be willing to try and do an analysis suggesting discrete steps to take to realize it if I better understood it.
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It's linked in @Dictator4Hire's signature. Here's the link
 
Briefvoice said:
That was your concern. Someone else worried that even without pangolin involvement organization on the street was the sort of thing that "they" would be looking for. (Too lazy to go back and find the post.)
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Yes, and they were worried about attracting attention since there was something dangerous that the attention could find (the summons). Note that when people bring out the risks and dangers of an enterprise it doesn't automatically mean "This is totally undoable!". If you missed it, I made a pretty long plan that incorporated the gang idea, I just took some measures (prohibit the pangolin from showing himself to the rollers) against the risks that we identified.

Muer'ci said:
...traveling out of sight of the shore would not get us spotted from the shore.
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Oh sorry, I just genuinely misread that part as "in sight of the shore" for some reason. But going far away from the shore introduces other problems, namely aquatic chakra monsters (probably HUGE) and the fact that if something goes wrong it will take ages to get back on land.

I guess the main reason I didn't think the water travel would be safe is that last time we were crossing pretty non-monitored waters from a small country to next and it got pretty dicey anyways. I have this feeling that bigger villages have something way better prepared for borders that they share between themselves. Also, losing pursuit in the Sea sounds harder than losing it on land.

There's also plenty of things we don't know about water travel, should've probably asked Mari about it? Maybe we could get bonuses for water travel since we are from Mist? But then again, Hazou didn't even know how to water walk before the swamp and I think all our genin are more accustomed to traveling in swamp and forest environments than at sea.

Bah, what is done is done. I have to say I have not been this disappointed in my own plan before. Some of my plans do turn to shit (like the Summoners and Sealers for chapter 56) but that's usually after the update has dropped.
 
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Twofold said:
Yes, and they were worried about attracting attention since there was something dangerous that the attention could find (the summons). Note that when people bring out the risks and dangers of an enterprise it doesn't automatically mean "This is totally undoable!". If you missed it, I made a pretty long plan that incorporated the gang idea, I just took some measures (prohibit the pangolin from showing himself to the rollers) against the risks that we identified.



Oh sorry, I just genuinely misread that part as "in sight of the shore" for some reason. But going far away from the shore introduces other problems, namely aquatic chakra monsters (probably HUGE) and the fact if something goes wrong it will take ages to get back on land.

I guess the main reason I didn't think the water travel would be safe is that last time we were crossing pretty non-monitored waters from a small country to next and it got pretty dicey anyways. I have this feeling that bigger villages have something way better prepared for borders that they share between themselves. Also, losing pursuit in the Sea sounds harder than losing it on land.

There's also plenty of things we don't know about water travel, should've probably asked Mari about it? Maybe we could get bonuses for water travel since we are from Mist? But then again, Hazou didn't even know how to water walk before the swamp and I think all our genin are more accustomed to traveling in swamp and forest environments than at sea.

Bah, what is done is done. I have to say I have not been this disappointed in my own plan before. Some of my plans do turn to shit (like the Summoners and Sealers for chapter 56) but that's usually after the update has dropped.
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Well, hopefully this chapter will have Hazou propose the plan and then immediately slap his forehead and go "hang on, that's a terrible idea!" And then we'll hang around fulfilling the parts of the last couple plans that QMs didn't have space to fit in the updates
 
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