MrRobot
In doubt there's always the Sun!
Yeah the boredom i doing the paperwork would still hit you trough, hazou do have the means to keep a clone into parework duty.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
-
- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard open voting
- Location
- on the way to the fire.
- Pronouns
- He
Ahh, you must have missed Naruto true bloodline power, the ability to live a day 30 times with shadow clones doing mundane chores and still be sane after a week.
MrRobot
In doubt there's always the Sun!
No kidding i dont think naruto is sane, he tryes to burry his memories and trauma by shadow clone spawming and emulating J-man, i know hazou is probably more traumatized but with hazou his trauma actually makes him more sane if detached. Naruto in MFD ront have the main character sindrome.
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- Location
- on the way to the fire.
- Pronouns
- He
How lucky that he has friends now who can help him and able to keep up with him and understand what it is like when you move in slow mode through life with many divergent thought processes.
^_^
- Location
- The Soviet Republic of Canuckistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I suspect that either the training would be insufficiently rigorous to produce gains, or such training being voted into a plan would constitute sufficient consensus that the QMs would spend an amount of XP which corresponds to the appropriate gain to the relevant stat/jutsu.
MrRobot
In doubt there's always the Sun!
Kei? Possibly but lei is also extremely introverted.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We're pretty lowkey about it. If you want to vote for something that isn't Hazō, that's considered a "Lore Update" (i.e., one where we provide lore about the world or the characters that Hazō has no particular way of knowing). If you want to vote for one, you could say:
[] Lore Update: Akane and Snowflake date
The only rule to know is that Lore Updates are always advisory. If one wins then we will generally write it but if we don't have energy, or we would rather write something else, etc then we'll do that instead. That could theoretically include something else from the vote tally but I'm not sure we've ever actually done that.
Gai?
MrRobot
In doubt there's always the Sun!
Mr Robot fucked up wording, you likes punching, Vel dont like punching and prefeers social senes, the sky is blue, the EN as a whole suck.
Some things will never change.
- Location
- Yes.
[X] Lore Update: Akane and Snowflake date
- Location
- United States
[X] Action Plan: Wait and See
Hazou is healing (mentally and physically) and has been ordered by Asuma to train Kagome on summoning - do that (and relay work for Cannai, checking in with Kumokōgō to make sure everything is okay with the Dragons and the Great Seal, running clan stuff, etc.) until:
1) Hazou heals enough to use a shadow clone safely, or
2) Kagome can safely sign the Arachnid summoning scroll, or
3) Some other major event occurs which would reasonably require Hazou's attention be pulled away from the above prior orders/obligations, e.g. Asuma calls a war council, there's another major attack, Mari and Kei get into a fight, there's a major food shortage in Leaf, Orochimaru has an update on Isan, the SSSSS people show up and ask for adoption, etc.
Lore updates are requested at the rate of one per week of in-story time to vote to either continue this plan or vote a new one.
Word count: 162.
Hazou is healing (mentally and physically) and has been ordered by Asuma to train Kagome on summoning - do that (and relay work for Cannai, checking in with Kumokōgō to make sure everything is okay with the Dragons and the Great Seal, running clan stuff, etc.) until:
1) Hazou heals enough to use a shadow clone safely, or
2) Kagome can safely sign the Arachnid summoning scroll, or
3) Some other major event occurs which would reasonably require Hazou's attention be pulled away from the above prior orders/obligations, e.g. Asuma calls a war council, there's another major attack, Mari and Kei get into a fight, there's a major food shortage in Leaf, Orochimaru has an update on Isan, the SSSSS people show up and ask for adoption, etc.
Lore updates are requested at the rate of one per week of in-story time to vote to either continue this plan or vote a new one.
Word count: 162.
Eisenhelm
gran dutch of douchery
- Location
- Colombia
I mean nothing negative by this, but that is a weird ass format for a plan.
[x] Lore Update: Akane and Snowflake date
- Location
- Yes.
[X] Hazou finds out about Akane and Snowflake dating
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
[Jk] Hazou stumbles on Akane and Snowflake's date, and somehow joins it
Eisenhelm
gran dutch of douchery
- Location
- Colombia
Hazou is dense as a lead brick, i can fully see him going into a date whit both and don't realizing what it was.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
For the record, I've been telling y'all for literally years that it's fine to use paragraphs instead of bullet points. Especially since the Xenforo bullet-point editor is the worst.
- Location
- Bulgaria
Hazou is dense enough to form a narrative singularity that pulls in exterior narratives and crushes them into a single point that sustains the boundaries of the polycule. This entire quest is just one, massive tool to decouple the most stubborn narratives and add them to the pile. Even the bachelorettes of the Seventh path aren't safe anymore...
- Pronouns
- She/Her/They/Them
[J] Orochimaru enters the polycule as it is a most youthful experiment
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MrRobot
In doubt there's always the Sun!
Dont insult bricks, hanzou is a dense as a neutron star.
[X] Action Plan: Do and Wait
Hazou is healing (mentally and physically) and has been ordered by Asuma to train Kagome on summoning, amongst other things Hazo must do.
1) Hazou heals enough to use a shadow clone safely, or
2) Kagome can safely sign the Arachnid summoning scroll, or
3) Some other major event occurs which would reasonably require Hazou's attention be pulled away from the above prior orders/obligations, e.g. Asuma calls a war council, there's another major attack, Mari and Kei get into a fight, there's a major food shortage in Leaf, Orochimaru has an update on Isan, the SSSSS people show up and ask for adoption, etc.
Misc:
* Help coordinate further trade agreements. Gaku's mostly responsible for this. (Dog bisons and spider silks)
* Introduce summons to relevant people.(family members and such)
* Meet with that Kakashi fangirl from the Inuzuka clan.
Hazou is healing (mentally and physically) and has been ordered by Asuma to train Kagome on summoning, amongst other things Hazo must do.
1) Hazou heals enough to use a shadow clone safely, or
2) Kagome can safely sign the Arachnid summoning scroll, or
3) Some other major event occurs which would reasonably require Hazou's attention be pulled away from the above prior orders/obligations, e.g. Asuma calls a war council, there's another major attack, Mari and Kei get into a fight, there's a major food shortage in Leaf, Orochimaru has an update on Isan, the SSSSS people show up and ask for adoption, etc.
Misc:
* Help coordinate further trade agreements. Gaku's mostly responsible for this. (Dog bisons and spider silks)
* Introduce summons to relevant people.(family members and such)
* Meet with that Kakashi fangirl from the Inuzuka clan.
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- Location
- USA
SC Training on 3 base XP, Kei at 1.4x and Akane at 1.0x:
Kei: +4.2 XP
Akane: +3.0 XP
For planmakers, note that Kei and Tenten's commitment ceremony is the day after we get down from the Skytower. I had a (short) section for that in my last plan.
Kei: +4.2 XP
Akane: +3.0 XP
For planmakers, note that Kei and Tenten's commitment ceremony is the day after we get down from the Skytower. I had a (short) section for that in my last plan.
- Location
- how about no
Turkey time (weekend apparently) cuts into thread time, so here's some somewhat late replies (better late than never hopefully).
From the quote you listed I believe they are more in favor of the end results but Hazou has not said how he wants to go about fulfilling them. I'm skeptical that they would approve of such aggressive dealings on the world stage, especially unanimously.
Asuma has been more than fair to us given his political position: he has had more than enough justification to pull the trigger on a killbox with us in it multiple times yet he hasn't because deep down he respects and personally likes Hazou despite the headaches we cause him. He cannot favor us more without destroying the balance of political interests keeping Leaf from tearing itself apart. Leaders of diverse political factions cannot afford to treat governing relationships in any binary 'you're either with me or against me' manner.
Having a civil conversation with him about our belief (since it has not been proven in character yet) that we have found a way to increase experience gains for people will not end in Asuma immediately shackling us and forcing us to give up our secrets. He has demonstrated his willingness, if not his immediate ability due to politics, to work with us towards common goals in the past so I am confident we can treat with him civilly again. The initial conversation does not force us to hand over FOOM but it does convey the importance to Asuma that we believe we might be able to offer something very important provided that Asuma guarantees us certain stipulations. If anyone would understand the gravity of the situation of a clan offering up one of its most precious secrets for the good of the village yet still needing some reassurances since the secret is just that good, it would be the Hokage, the person who deals with and executes judgements on the letter and spirit of Leaf law and clan politics daily.
We need to find a way to convince Asuma that Hazou's ambitions align with his so we can better influence the future of Leaf towards accepting our Uplift ideology. Talking with him and trying to find common ground for a compromise that makes both of us happy is the best way I can think of to achieve that.
Now as for, and please correct me if I'm reading the subtext wrong, you dislike the thought of having Hazou extend trust in such a potentially vulnerable way to an authority figure we don't have any leverage over. I consider this first conversation as a way to ascertain whether or not we can actually trust Asuma with how FOOM works or any other form of empowerment we may come across in the future. If he does not verbalize that we would be giving him the ability to betray us by teaching it to whomever he wants we can infer that he would be planning to do exactly that. However, if he goes to the trouble of explaining his position within Leaf and asks for a compromise to train only those who are loyal to Leaf first and foremost (not their individual clans) we can start having the compromise bartering.
If Asuma wants to train himself and his current personal ANBU in FOOM I would accept that given the conditions that we, the Goketsu, in return have the ability to teach SC to people we choose while notifying we are doing so to the Tower. We would also probably have a stipulation that we would be responsible for hunting down those who would abuse the trust invested in us because SC and FOOM are such strategically vital secrets for Leaf. However, this means we as our ideology will have the ability to outnumber all of Leaf's S-rankers in the future. We would be trading power now and any remote hopes we have of successfully betraying Leaf for securing our eventual dominance in Leaf and better protection from Orochimaru (which, if we ever tried to leave Leaf, Asuma would send him after us because it would kill two birds with one stone).
I recognize that if Asuma really wanted to he could renege on this deal to cut us off, but I'll (hopefully clearly) explain more about why I want us to engage in proposing cooperate-cooperate further on in this post. As a way to potentially address those concerns we could sanity check this in the abstract with Ino and/or Sasuke. Both of their clans have ways of aggregating different techniques from multiple different sources to create something new so they might have precedent for sharing something like this with the Hokage, if not on this magnitude. I don't recommend petitioning Shikamaru though because he would be likely to suss out the workings behind FOOM even if we try to be vague.
Are they together in MfD? I can't remember.
Was this the same solution y'all had for the Chunin exams?
On the one hand, I understand how much of a headache it would be to have fluctuating XP rates based on what each individual in MfD does each day. Updating thousands of character sheets isn't feasible for human intelligence authors with limited timeframes (on the off chance either or both of you are post-singularity AI's then I would be disappointed
).
On the other hand, not holding all of the characters to the same standards as our PC's makes expanding our manpower economies of scale functionally impossible. There will always be a wall between our chosen ones and frankly effectively lesser beings: they can't help what they are through no fault of their own. This in turn incentivizes players to focus more on the PC's and only the PC's because there will be a better return on effort investment for doing so.
There might be a way to compromise between simulationism and efficiency with enough brainstorming. How would a system have to function to satisfy y'all's needs as QMs? A bell curve distribution could be used so that various NPC's receive varying levels of XP per day with few people having exceptional days, most having expected outcomes, and a few unlucky souls having a bad day. I don't know how you manage NPC sheets (if they even exist) and there is the problem of revealing too much to players in the form of OOC knowledge which can lead to metagaming. Maybe we could accumulate multiple solutions and y'all could pick one without telling us what it is?
Food for thought at least.
Not even a ballpark estimate huh? Oof.
We'll persevere to find a satisfying solution despite the setback.
For me, there are two things making sharing FOOM sooner imperative:
Huh, this is interesting in its own way. Does Hazou know this IC? This is potentially actionable intelligence.
We could petition Leaf to make tracks for students rather than have a set curriculum for everyone so that students who are less skilled in some subjects yet skilled in others can maximize their strengths while their comrades cover their weaknesses.
I'll see what I can do, but no promises when it comes to my tech prowess, for lack of a better term.
Honestly, the more I think about optimizing training plans the more I just want to help the kids regardless of the XP numbers. It would be hypocritical of me to advocate only helping NPC's when it's most convenient for us to do so. I'd still like to test our number crunching in game to confirm that we have an accurate handle on how the underlining mechanics actually function in practice so we can distribute our efforts effectively and efficiently. However, I still believe we need to help everyone who will accept our offers of assistance as best as we, either Hazou or the Goketsu as a clan, are able.
In hindsight, it's plain to see how the quest has changed (from the perspective of a player) since its inception. The players, and I would assume the QMs as well, have become very attached to our original band of misfits in now stark contrast to the premise I remember about this quest being as strict of a simulation as possible about trying to survive in a deathworld based on the Naruto universe yet made more rational. I was convinced our first attempt was doomed from the outset as too many people made decisions based on MfD!incorrect canon knowledge.
Now here we are in Leaf alive and, if not completely well, in a position to recover, but we aren't pregnant with Sasuke's child so everything didn't go according to the thread's first "bold" plan exactly.
I mention all of this to preface that I am proud of almost (never forget the pedants) everything the thread has accomplished and I want to encourage everyone to keep the process of Uplift going by expanding it outside of our clan, not keeping it to ourselves until a much later time. I find the organic narrative of MfD more satisfying and inspiring because it comes from a simulation background. Ordinary people decided to do more than survive in a deathworld: to transform it, to improve it so that all people in that same world could thrive instead because we found the means to do so.
The simulationist nature, from my point of view, necessitates treating all of the NPC's we interact with as real people. If they are to live in a world without war they must pursue lasting peace. If they are to live in a world with justice they must act to hold themselves and each other to equal standards. Improvement starts with a visionary but only endures when the masses practice it.
Hazou has to increase his personal power while laying the foundations for Uplift to prove through action that he leads from the front, practicing what he preaches and consequently succeeds by doing so. I do not want Uplift as a movement stifled by naysayers claiming Hazou only advocates for Uplift due to his strength gained from his connections to Jiraiya, his bloodline, his summons, and whatever else we find. Might making right has persisted since the Sage's time as the underlying axiom of the MfD world so to truly change stubborn simulated people's minds Hazou must champion what he/we believe is right before he becomes so powerful he has to be placated, willingly or begrudgingly. The presence of the person espousing a message must not overshadow the message itself or that message will be silenced by perceived looming implications.
Hazou can accomplish all of those goals you mentioned like the tip of a spear skewering the evils of the MfD world with his compatriots in Uplift acting as his shield, army, vanguard, and logistical support. The training for those people currently outside of our sphere of influence must be delegated eventually to achieve accelerating growth but Hazou has to take the first step to begin the process. Conveniently, winning the hearts and minds of the next generation of Leaf ninja can in part be accomplished by winning in battle, acquiring more power-ups, and defeating malefactors. How we win those fights and how we present ourselves and our beliefs matters as well though.
A movement would be more narratively satisfying than having Hazou become effectively a Messiah. No chosen ones but choosing our own destiny and teaching others to do so as well seems more accurate to the tone and the themes of what this quest has become, to me at least. I won't hold it against you if you still disagree; I just wanted to clarify my stance.
From the quote you listed I believe they are more in favor of the end results but Hazou has not said how he wants to go about fulfilling them. I'm skeptical that they would approve of such aggressive dealings on the world stage, especially unanimously.
Asuma has been more than fair to us given his political position: he has had more than enough justification to pull the trigger on a killbox with us in it multiple times yet he hasn't because deep down he respects and personally likes Hazou despite the headaches we cause him. He cannot favor us more without destroying the balance of political interests keeping Leaf from tearing itself apart. Leaders of diverse political factions cannot afford to treat governing relationships in any binary 'you're either with me or against me' manner.
Having a civil conversation with him about our belief (since it has not been proven in character yet) that we have found a way to increase experience gains for people will not end in Asuma immediately shackling us and forcing us to give up our secrets. He has demonstrated his willingness, if not his immediate ability due to politics, to work with us towards common goals in the past so I am confident we can treat with him civilly again. The initial conversation does not force us to hand over FOOM but it does convey the importance to Asuma that we believe we might be able to offer something very important provided that Asuma guarantees us certain stipulations. If anyone would understand the gravity of the situation of a clan offering up one of its most precious secrets for the good of the village yet still needing some reassurances since the secret is just that good, it would be the Hokage, the person who deals with and executes judgements on the letter and spirit of Leaf law and clan politics daily.
We need to find a way to convince Asuma that Hazou's ambitions align with his so we can better influence the future of Leaf towards accepting our Uplift ideology. Talking with him and trying to find common ground for a compromise that makes both of us happy is the best way I can think of to achieve that.
Now as for, and please correct me if I'm reading the subtext wrong, you dislike the thought of having Hazou extend trust in such a potentially vulnerable way to an authority figure we don't have any leverage over. I consider this first conversation as a way to ascertain whether or not we can actually trust Asuma with how FOOM works or any other form of empowerment we may come across in the future. If he does not verbalize that we would be giving him the ability to betray us by teaching it to whomever he wants we can infer that he would be planning to do exactly that. However, if he goes to the trouble of explaining his position within Leaf and asks for a compromise to train only those who are loyal to Leaf first and foremost (not their individual clans) we can start having the compromise bartering.
If Asuma wants to train himself and his current personal ANBU in FOOM I would accept that given the conditions that we, the Goketsu, in return have the ability to teach SC to people we choose while notifying we are doing so to the Tower. We would also probably have a stipulation that we would be responsible for hunting down those who would abuse the trust invested in us because SC and FOOM are such strategically vital secrets for Leaf. However, this means we as our ideology will have the ability to outnumber all of Leaf's S-rankers in the future. We would be trading power now and any remote hopes we have of successfully betraying Leaf for securing our eventual dominance in Leaf and better protection from Orochimaru (which, if we ever tried to leave Leaf, Asuma would send him after us because it would kill two birds with one stone).
I recognize that if Asuma really wanted to he could renege on this deal to cut us off, but I'll (hopefully clearly) explain more about why I want us to engage in proposing cooperate-cooperate further on in this post. As a way to potentially address those concerns we could sanity check this in the abstract with Ino and/or Sasuke. Both of their clans have ways of aggregating different techniques from multiple different sources to create something new so they might have precedent for sharing something like this with the Hokage, if not on this magnitude. I don't recommend petitioning Shikamaru though because he would be likely to suss out the workings behind FOOM even if we try to be vague.
Are they together in MfD? I can't remember.
Was this the same solution y'all had for the Chunin exams?
On the one hand, I understand how much of a headache it would be to have fluctuating XP rates based on what each individual in MfD does each day. Updating thousands of character sheets isn't feasible for human intelligence authors with limited timeframes (on the off chance either or both of you are post-singularity AI's then I would be disappointed
).On the other hand, not holding all of the characters to the same standards as our PC's makes expanding our manpower economies of scale functionally impossible. There will always be a wall between our chosen ones and frankly effectively lesser beings: they can't help what they are through no fault of their own. This in turn incentivizes players to focus more on the PC's and only the PC's because there will be a better return on effort investment for doing so.
There might be a way to compromise between simulationism and efficiency with enough brainstorming. How would a system have to function to satisfy y'all's needs as QMs? A bell curve distribution could be used so that various NPC's receive varying levels of XP per day with few people having exceptional days, most having expected outcomes, and a few unlucky souls having a bad day. I don't know how you manage NPC sheets (if they even exist) and there is the problem of revealing too much to players in the form of OOC knowledge which can lead to metagaming. Maybe we could accumulate multiple solutions and y'all could pick one without telling us what it is?
Food for thought at least.
Not even a ballpark estimate huh? Oof.
We'll persevere to find a satisfying solution despite the setback.
For me, there are two things making sharing FOOM sooner imperative:
- For maximum effectiveness while maintaining ideological integrity among the FOOM-empowered we need to start as soon as possible since the timeline for even one generation of FOOM soldiers not a part of our initial team will take twenty years. I doubt the world would have better odds of not dying to another dragon-level threat if we have to wait even longer before we have a force capable of actually dealing with such threats, not just sealing them away.
- I personally prefer having Hazou act as a leader of people rather than have him act as a Messiah-like figure to save people from themselves once he is already S-rank. I currently despise cults of personality thanks to recent events these past few years.
Huh, this is interesting in its own way. Does Hazou know this IC? This is potentially actionable intelligence.
We could petition Leaf to make tracks for students rather than have a set curriculum for everyone so that students who are less skilled in some subjects yet skilled in others can maximize their strengths while their comrades cover their weaknesses.
I'll see what I can do, but no promises when it comes to my tech prowess, for lack of a better term.
Honestly, the more I think about optimizing training plans the more I just want to help the kids regardless of the XP numbers. It would be hypocritical of me to advocate only helping NPC's when it's most convenient for us to do so. I'd still like to test our number crunching in game to confirm that we have an accurate handle on how the underlining mechanics actually function in practice so we can distribute our efforts effectively and efficiently. However, I still believe we need to help everyone who will accept our offers of assistance as best as we, either Hazou or the Goketsu as a clan, are able.
In hindsight, it's plain to see how the quest has changed (from the perspective of a player) since its inception. The players, and I would assume the QMs as well, have become very attached to our original band of misfits in now stark contrast to the premise I remember about this quest being as strict of a simulation as possible about trying to survive in a deathworld based on the Naruto universe yet made more rational. I was convinced our first attempt was doomed from the outset as too many people made decisions based on MfD!incorrect canon knowledge.
Now here we are in Leaf alive and, if not completely well, in a position to recover, but we aren't pregnant with Sasuke's child so everything didn't go according to the thread's first "bold" plan exactly.
I mention all of this to preface that I am proud of almost (never forget the pedants) everything the thread has accomplished and I want to encourage everyone to keep the process of Uplift going by expanding it outside of our clan, not keeping it to ourselves until a much later time. I find the organic narrative of MfD more satisfying and inspiring because it comes from a simulation background. Ordinary people decided to do more than survive in a deathworld: to transform it, to improve it so that all people in that same world could thrive instead because we found the means to do so.
The simulationist nature, from my point of view, necessitates treating all of the NPC's we interact with as real people. If they are to live in a world without war they must pursue lasting peace. If they are to live in a world with justice they must act to hold themselves and each other to equal standards. Improvement starts with a visionary but only endures when the masses practice it.
Hazou has to increase his personal power while laying the foundations for Uplift to prove through action that he leads from the front, practicing what he preaches and consequently succeeds by doing so. I do not want Uplift as a movement stifled by naysayers claiming Hazou only advocates for Uplift due to his strength gained from his connections to Jiraiya, his bloodline, his summons, and whatever else we find. Might making right has persisted since the Sage's time as the underlying axiom of the MfD world so to truly change stubborn simulated people's minds Hazou must champion what he/we believe is right before he becomes so powerful he has to be placated, willingly or begrudgingly. The presence of the person espousing a message must not overshadow the message itself or that message will be silenced by perceived looming implications.
Hazou can accomplish all of those goals you mentioned like the tip of a spear skewering the evils of the MfD world with his compatriots in Uplift acting as his shield, army, vanguard, and logistical support. The training for those people currently outside of our sphere of influence must be delegated eventually to achieve accelerating growth but Hazou has to take the first step to begin the process. Conveniently, winning the hearts and minds of the next generation of Leaf ninja can in part be accomplished by winning in battle, acquiring more power-ups, and defeating malefactors. How we win those fights and how we present ourselves and our beliefs matters as well though.
A movement would be more narratively satisfying than having Hazou become effectively a Messiah. No chosen ones but choosing our own destiny and teaching others to do so as well seems more accurate to the tone and the themes of what this quest has become, to me at least. I won't hold it against you if you still disagree; I just wanted to clarify my stance.
- Location
- how about no
Yes.
If MtG modern existed as a game and format in MfD, Hazou would be the one to invent Boggles as a deck. Kei would play draw-go control, Noburi would play merfolk, Mari would play lantern control, Snowflake would start with storm and all of her siblings would try different combos, Akane would play mono green stompy or maybe elves, Kagome would play burn, Haru would play Jund, and Yuno would play hammer time but would have all of the art altered so the hammers were axes instead.
So yeah, +1 for MtG Pangolin Umbra art please.
- Location
- how about no
For planning purposes, please take this snippet in some form from my old plan:
We desperately need to read if we're going to be of any use during this war, but more importantly I want all of us to survive. Ignorance is fatal in war. If someone wants to repost this plan in its entirety that's fine too, but I didn't want to force even more date scenes on people since we just had one. For the record though I am down for having Hazou partake in additional chill dates while he healsso long as especially if Ino is involved.
If people want more in depth questions here are some more:
We desperately need to read if we're going to be of any use during this war, but more importantly I want all of us to survive. Ignorance is fatal in war. If someone wants to repost this plan in its entirety that's fine too, but I didn't want to force even more date scenes on people since we just had one. For the record though I am down for having Hazou partake in additional chill dates while he heals
If people want more in depth questions here are some more:
- Location
- America
I strongly disagree with sharing FOOM before hitting EJounin stats -- or even hinting about the existence of FOOM in return for stipulations.
Our ideology would not outnumber Leaf's S-rankers in the future in any way. I think the Anbu alone outnumber the Goketsu. All Asuma has to do is FOOM up his own Anbu and he outpaces us. We are currently already safe in Leaf, letting others know we will be strong in the future just paints a target on our backs as someone to crush before they grow too strong.
We'd have an easier and more efficient time spreading Uplift from a position of power rather than by living out the fundamentals of Uplift while weak. Like you say, might making right has existed for ages here. I argue we should take full advantage of this by becoming secure in our power before trying to change others. I don't care about gently convincing people that our ideology is right. If being intimidatingly powerful helps spread Uplift, I am absolutely fine with it. For example, even if it takes threats and a Jounin aura to convince a daimyo that his impoverished homeless have a right to a fair trial, we will have still improved lives and practiced Uplift.
That's why I see sharing FOOM early to be one of the worst mistakes we could make. If we give up our shot at being strong enough to make the world fall in line, we will never get it back. Do you really think Asuma would be content to make a deal that results in the Goketsu having more S-rankers than his own faction? Asuma simply can't have that kind of looming threat endangering the village, and sooner or later I believe he would have his Anbu wipe out the Goketsu for the sake of Leaf. He'd mourn that it was necessary, but say there was no other way. At the very best, Asuma stops us from teaching SC to others and FOOMs himself and all his Anbu.
I also highly doubt we could ever so thoroughly convince Asuma that our ideals align with his that he would sit back and allow us to eventually take over Leaf. Asuma is a nationalist -- he cares about Leaf, not the rest of the Elemental Nations. That's what will always bring our ideals into conflict with his own.
(sorry about the quotesalad response, but I didn't see a better way to respond. I'm just very afraid that the playerbase ends up voting for sharing FOOM and the quest essentially ends there.)
I don't think Asuma would force us to give up the exact details of FOOM if we hinted at them and revealed the expected outcome of FOOM, but he would still act on the knowledge we shared with him. Clan secrets are only sacred as long as they are kept secret -- Asuma has no reason not to take action based on the partial capabilities of FOOM that we would share in a probing conversation.
Isn't it just as easily possible that Asuma realizes that we have to know that he could betray us at any time and doesn't see it worth mentioning? Asuma could lie to us and beat out Deceit check. It's also possible that he doesn't intend to betray us during that face-to-face meeting we have and Asuma changes his mind later. We cannot determine if Asuma will betray us based on the results of a single conversation.
It seems unlikely to me that Asuma would allow us to teach anyone we wanted SC. It's a state secret and an immensely powerful ability -- the deal would fall through. I also don't see why we would need the exclusive rights to hunting down FOOM defectors since Asuma's theoretical FOOM Anbu could do it themselves.
Our ideology would not outnumber Leaf's S-rankers in the future in any way. I think the Anbu alone outnumber the Goketsu. All Asuma has to do is FOOM up his own Anbu and he outpaces us. We are currently already safe in Leaf, letting others know we will be strong in the future just paints a target on our backs as someone to crush before they grow too strong.
Counterarguments:
- We don't need a whole generation of FOOM-soldiers in order to change the world. The current Goketsu raised to S-rank would be enough concentrated power to create the change we need in the world. Sharing FOOM in order to raise solders 20 years from now also ensures that we need to survive an additional 20 years in order to gain the security of the FOOMed trainees. In that time, other ninja FOOMing can surpass our power and crush us, or raise FOOMed soldiers themselves in greater quantities because we lack the resources to match other factions.
- We only have control over Hazou in this quest. The more power we grant to others, the less agency and control over our surroundings we have. Also, this is a setting where a few immensely powerful individuals decide the fates of hundreds of thousands. It's going to be very hard to avoid being a Messiah-like figure and still enact worldwide change as long as other such figures exist.
Why should we care about naysayers when we are supremely powerful? The spread of Uplift will hardly be stifled by people shouting hypocrisy because Hazou had the privileges' of a bloodline, summoning scrolls, and so on. Hazou is already practicing Uplift through till'n'fills, how we treat civilians, and the various other social programs we've enacted throughout the Goketsu estate.
We'd have an easier and more efficient time spreading Uplift from a position of power rather than by living out the fundamentals of Uplift while weak. Like you say, might making right has existed for ages here. I argue we should take full advantage of this by becoming secure in our power before trying to change others. I don't care about gently convincing people that our ideology is right. If being intimidatingly powerful helps spread Uplift, I am absolutely fine with it. For example, even if it takes threats and a Jounin aura to convince a daimyo that his impoverished homeless have a right to a fair trial, we will have still improved lives and practiced Uplift.
That's why I see sharing FOOM early to be one of the worst mistakes we could make. If we give up our shot at being strong enough to make the world fall in line, we will never get it back. Do you really think Asuma would be content to make a deal that results in the Goketsu having more S-rankers than his own faction? Asuma simply can't have that kind of looming threat endangering the village, and sooner or later I believe he would have his Anbu wipe out the Goketsu for the sake of Leaf. He'd mourn that it was necessary, but say there was no other way. At the very best, Asuma stops us from teaching SC to others and FOOMs himself and all his Anbu.
I also highly doubt we could ever so thoroughly convince Asuma that our ideals align with his that he would sit back and allow us to eventually take over Leaf. Asuma is a nationalist -- he cares about Leaf, not the rest of the Elemental Nations. That's what will always bring our ideals into conflict with his own.
(sorry about the quotesalad response, but I didn't see a better way to respond. I'm just very afraid that the playerbase ends up voting for sharing FOOM and the quest essentially ends there.)