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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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[x] Action Plan: Consider the Following Resonance Structure

Meet with Ami and Keiko. Max OPSEC ( let Ami drive on this facet of the meeting, stress that "Max OPSEC" is not to be taken hyperbolically).
  • Get caught up to speed on Anti-Hagoromo plots.
    • How can we help?
    • We wanted to challenge them to a duel (their three clan members vs. OG Uplift, failing that, our pick of 3 non-Mari Gouketsu clan members) with some stakes (we win: any debt from us to them is null and void, and they owe us2 mil ryo a month. they win: we owe them 4 mil total ryo a month). "Dueling" is outlawed, but is there any nonsense in Leaf legalese that allows this in some form?
      • Surely there is some way to arrange this? Even if its informally treated as a "spar" or "competition" with corresponding stakes. Perhaps as a "bet" legally speaking?
  • Pick up somewhat from where you left off with Ami last time.
    • Clear with Keiko beforehand.
      • Generally let her chime in with any thoughts she may or may not have on any aspect of this, her input is clearly valuable and we treasure it.
    • Our terminal goals should be pretty clear: Uplift for all, better social equality for all, stop general crappy stuff from being a consistent theme in this world, figure out resurrection techniques, etc. With a side dish of protecting the family in the meantime.
      • Instrumental goals: become uber powerful sealmaster, maybe look into technique hacking, bio sealing, and mednin stuff. Look into lost sources of lore and/or epic power, such as: Whirlpool, sealing ritual arrays, source of Chakra, summoning scrolls,various mysteries obviously present in the world, the Seventh Path, etc.
      • Summoning scrolls: done-ish. We have some serious knowledge about Sealing stuff that we didn't have before. Out-stuff isn't too problematic, whatever.
    • Your goals are still somewhat obtuse besides "protect Keiko" (which we can get behind).
      • You've indicated that you find our goals acceptable. We find at least one of your goals to be something that we would support, and estimate that at least some of them are ones we'd like to actively work towards.
      • We would like to enter into a mutually beneficial relationship with the Ami.
      • If she accepts, give hug.
    • If she accepts your offer, explain Shadow Clone FOOM after implementing additional (and hopefully extraneous, but you never know!) OPSEC measures.
      • If she can get into Leaf, and get the Shadow Clone technique, we'll cut her in if she wants.
 
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[X] Action plan: The iron star that will burn the world

These names continue to be hot fire.
 
[] Action Plan: A plan with action in it
[x] Action Plan: Consider the Following Resonance Structure
[] Action plan: The iron star that will burn the world
 
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[X] Action Plan: A plan with action in it
[X] Action Plan: Consider the Following Resonance Structure

@MMKII, Mind adding a "how can we make you more comfortable with our presence in your life" or something similar? Either way, you have my vote
 
[X] Action Plan: A plan with action in it
[X] Action Plan: Consider the Following Resonance Structure
[X] Action plan: The iron star that will burn the world
 
MMKII said:
[x] Action Plan: Consider the Following Resonance Structure

Meet with Ami and Keiko. Max OPSEC ( let Ami drive on this facet of the meeting, stress that "Max OPSEC" is not to be taken hyperbolically).
  • Get caught up to speed on Anti-Hagoromo plots.
    • How can we help?
    • We wanted to challenge them to a duel (their three clan members vs. OG Uplift, failing that, our pick of 3 non-Mari Gouketsu clan members) with some stakes (we win: any debt from us to them is null and void, and they owe us2 mil ryo a month. they win: we owe them 4 mil total ryo a month). "Dueling" is outlawed, but is there any nonsense in Leaf legalese that allows this in some form?
      • Surely there is some way to arrange this? Even if its informally treated as a "spar" or "competition" with corresponding stakes. Perhaps as a "bet" legally speaking?
  • Pick up somewhat from where you left off with Ami last time.
    • Clear with Keiko beforehand.
      • Generally let her chime in with any thoughts she may or may not have on any aspect of this, her input is clearly valuable and we treasure it.
    • Our terminal goals should be pretty clear: Uplift for all, better social equality for all, stop general crappy stuff from being a consistent theme in this world, figure out resurrection techniques, etc. With a side dish of protecting the family in the meantime.
      • Instrumental goals: become uber powerful sealmaster, maybe look into technique hacking, bio sealing, and mednin stuff. Look into lost sources of lore and/or epic power, such as: Whirlpool, sealing ritual arrays, source of Chakra, summoning scrolls,various mysteries obviously present in the world, the Seventh Path, etc.
      • Summoning scrolls: done-ish. We have some serious knowledge about Sealing stuff that we didn't have before. Out-stuff isn't too problematic, whatever.
    • Your goals are still somewhat obtuse besides "protect Keiko" (which we can get behind).
      • You've indicated that you find our goals acceptable. We find at least one of your goals to be something that we would support, and estimate that at least some of them are ones we'd like to actively work towards.
      • We would like to enter into a mutually beneficial relationship with the Ami.
      • If she accepts, give hug.
    • If she accepts your offer, explain Shadow Clone FOOM after implementing additional (and hopefully extraneous, but you never know!) OPSEC measures.
      • If she can get into Leaf, and get the Shadow Clone technique, we'll cut her in if she wants.
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Uhm..I would invite the other members of Uplift, considering this is something that involves them too. If we're wrong, everyone pays the price, so they should at least be there. Regardless, it's a bold plan that could resolve FOOM OPSEC and, well, if unless we're catastrophically wrong, Ami won't kill us instantly for being a threat.
Let's do it!

[x] Action Plan: Consider the Following Resonance Structure

What else? Maybe clarify how important of a step this is(And the consequences of breaking ours AND Keiko trust on this)? Change "mutally beneficial realtionship" to "Family" or "Uplift"?
 
Lord Marshal said:
Change "mutally beneficial realtionship" to "Family" or "Uplift"?
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That seems a bit too direct about it. From what we saw last time, Ami is really not sure how to deal with Hazou being family, and putting it in stark terms feels to me more likely to spook her into rejecting than comfort her into acceptance.

We can use the F-word once she's grappled enough with the topic and gotten to know us well enough to definitely not recoil from the unfamiliar new territory.

What I'm thinking about the plan is that sharing the idea of FOOM is, I'm pretty sure it's treason given that it involves sharing SC training which I'm pretty sure is treason to share. Since we cannot currently deceive Asuma properly, if we want to do this we need to make double sure we never get called on anything remotely related to it, including "You have avoided committing treason again, yes?" or "Tell me everything you know about Ami Mori".

How confident are we that we won't get caught for doing this? I expect that at this point, if we go in the killbox we won't come out.
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
That seems a bit too direct about it. From what we saw last time, Ami is really not sure how to deal with Hazou being family, and putting it in stark terms feels to me more likely to spook her into rejecting than comfort her into acceptance.

We can use the F-word once she's grappled enough with the topic and gotten to know us well enough to definitely not recoil from the unfamiliar new territory.

What I'm thinking about the plan is that sharing the idea of FOOM is, I'm pretty sure it's treason given that it involves sharing SC training which I'm pretty sure is treason to share. Since we cannot currently deceive Asuma properly, if we want to do this we need to make double sure we never get called on anything remotely related to it, including "You have avoided committing treason again, yes?" or "Tell me everything you know about Ami Mori".

How confident are we that we won't get caught for doing this? I expect that at this point, if we go in the killbox we won't come out.
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The problem is that, as you noted, we're going all-in. What we're putting on the table isn't something we can put on the table while asking for half-hearted committement. This said, it shouldn't be treason because Ami already knows, as she found out in the collapse. But yeah, we should optimize with Mari at least
 
[X] Action plan: The iron star that will burn the world
@Oneiros I have made changes to your plan, most of which are minor readability things but some of which are possibly larger changes which you may or may not agree with (non-exhaustive list spoilered at the end). Please let me know your thoughts.
  • Introduce Canun to Ebisu.
  • "Burning-the-Hagoromo-to-the-ground" meeting:
    • Beforehand, ask Yuno and Haru their thoughts on Keiko's relationship. Invite them to the meeting if they're positively inclined.
    • Explain to Yuno the details of the Hagoromo-Gouketsu feud (they hate us over Keiko's relationship).
    • They've put their petty beliefs over the good of Leaf; for that, they must be broken into irrelevancy until they change their ways.
    • Mari: Look for avenues of blackmail, and immediately act on any opportunities with Hazou.
      • Review Jiraiya's notes.
      • Look for targets that can be drugged (ala Lizardbreath).
      • Find out any relationships with the Yakuza.
    • Noburi, Akane and, Yuno: Break the Hagoromo's monopoly on religious legitimacy by building up alternatives (Church of Youth, Toadism) and destabilize the Hagoromo's.
      • Ask Noburi to begin summoning the Toadism priest to give public sermons (preferably in front of a statue of Jiraiya, to remind people that listening to toads is not against the Will of Fire).
      • Encourage people to begin using the Church of Youth for religious ceremonies. Hire people to talk about how "the Spirit of Youth is Hiashi Hyuuga's legacy and a totally valid religion" and engrain it into the public consciousness.
      • Try to find priests who are affiliated with the Hagoromo and have an important one denounce Lord Hagoromo as going against the Will of Fire in order to start a religious schism.
      • We want to make alternative religions more powerful to decrease the power of the Hagoromo's.
    • Haru: Look up Hagoromo-affiliated businesses or infrastructure.
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  • Had us confirm that Yuno/Haru are positively inclined to working with us on this beforehand. I don't think they're mission-critical so them being absent isn't the end of the world.
  • Changed ("their petty vendetta"->"their petty beliefs"). It's certainly petty, but I don't think the feud is violent enough to be considered such.
  • Clarified "must be stopped" (into "broken into irrelevancy", which I thinkis the intention?).
 
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Investigative Report: the Hagoromo Clan
  • Informational
    • Investigative Report: the Hagoromo Clan

    The Hagoromo see themselves as guardians of tradition stretching back to the Sage. Their clan culture emphasises responsibility (they must fulfil their duty, because there's no one else who can do it), diligence (there is a correct way of doing everything, and everyone is counting on them to get it right), scholarship (it's up to them to understand and interpret the past everyone else has forgotten), and purity (they mustn't stray from the path, or who will make sure everyone else follows it?). They are said to lead relatively disciplined, regimented lifestyles, and spend a lot of time studying historical and religious texts. In-depth knowledge of these areas is a marker of seniority.

    The older Hagoromo are hardcore conservatives who consider all change to be bad since it takes humanity further away from the golden age of the Sage's time. As far as they're concerned, all humanity is sinful, themselves included, but they are amongst the least sinful because they're at least trying to follow the rules, whereas society at large hardly seems to even care what they are. Younger Hagoromo are divided between the orthodox faithful, those enjoying the moral superiority while only paying lip service to the actual ideals, and those earnestly (and quietly) struggling to reconcile teachings from centuries ago with a reality that no longer quite fits, though it's hard for an outsider to tell which is which.

    On the whole, Mari considers them to be somewhere between the Hyūga and the Akimichi. They are judgemental and bigoted, but they are not blood purists, and the average clansman considers a sincere effort to follow the Will of Fire in all things to be a tolerable second best to living according to the letter of the scripture.

    However, multiple comments from those with long-term ties to the Hagoromo suggest that the events of the past year have been pushing the Hagoromo towards greater fanaticism.

    The Hagoromo used to make an excellent living as scribes, with sidelines in bookbinding, illumination, and papermaking. That crashed with the invention of the printing press, which they believe to have been an act of economic warfare against them from the Nara. Relations have been strained ever since.

    They still have the papermaking business, but it's a sideline. You have identified their sources and the location of their papermill.

    Their primary business is textiles. They have their own fields from which they source raw materials, and you have located those fields and the farmers that work them. (About 100 acres divided among 3 fields, each one a few hours outside of Leaf.)

    They have a standard set of purveyors from whom they buy food etc. You have identified them. There are 30 ninja in the clan post-Collapse and about 200 civilians. You know where their compound is.
     
  • Informational
    • Brain is slow right now. If anyone has ideas how to implement the new info into my plan let me know
     
    Velorien said:
    Younger Hagoromo are divided between the orthodox faithful, those enjoying the moral superiority while only paying lip service to the actual ideals, and those earnestly (and quietly) struggling to reconcile teachings from centuries ago with a reality that no longer quite fits, though it's hard for an outsider to tell which is which.
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    Precommitting all my votes to plans which seek to empower the reformist Hagoromo faction.
     
    Velorien said:
    Their clan culture emphasises responsibility (they must fulfil their duty, because there's no one else who can do it), diligence (there is a correct way of doing everything, and everyone is counting on them to get it right), scholarship (it's up to them to understand and interpret the past everyone else has forgotten), and purity (they mustn't stray from the path, or who will make sure everyone else follows it?).
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    Even though I haven't bothered to call the thoughts into full consciousness I can feel how much ashen swiss cheese this is.
     
    firestorm440 said:
    Precommitting all my votes to plans which seek to empower the reformist Hagoromo faction.
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    We should find the oldest/strongest/highest-status reformist Hagoromo and have lunch with them, talk some philosophy. If that proves productive, we can consider shifting our 'render the Hagoromo irrelevant' stance to 'dangle the Hagoromo over the pit of irrelevance and extend an olive branch to the reformist faction in particular, while using our position of relative power to make sure they are inoffensive to us and a positive force in society going forward'.

    All told I think I would prefer this outcome if we can swing it (we look less disruptive to the rest of Leaf, can turn an enemy into an ally instead of null, I kinda want to hear the Hagoromo's lore tbh), but it sounds a little harder to swing and is dependent on whether the reformist Hagoromo are suitable.

    (Finding the most important reformist Hagoromo might prove tricky, so we could instead aim for a series of meetings and see if we can glean who's who. And even if that fails entirely, it at least gives the QMs a chance to show our enemy face to face.)

    (Specifically, to try and find the most important reformist Hagoromo we could look through visible Hagoromo activities to find any Hagoromo who shows signs of reformist thought, and then ask them if they can point us in the right direction)
     
    @Oneiros Maybe you could do this for the religious schism thing? Dunno if it works, I wrote it off the cuff.
    Empower the reformist branch of the Hagoromo clan in order to reduce their fanaticism and start a religious schism if needed.
    • Locate and have a series of meetings with high-ranking Hagoromo reformists to discuss the meaning of the Will of Fire. See if they are amenable to our way of thinking.
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