- Location
- Pacific standard
Thats... pretty much what this is. Within 20 years Uchiha will be voting with us on every issue regardless of the markers left. There's a reason mari said her plan lead to them being our branch family.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
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- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
Thats... pretty much what this is. Within 20 years Uchiha will be voting with us on every issue regardless of the markers left. There's a reason mari said her plan lead to them being our branch family.
- Location
- Why would this be required?
The whole having the kids on the weekend things sounds a little silly in this situation. I do however agree with negotiating for visitation rights and in turn allowing the children in question to visit the compound when it's possible.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Well if we take the deal one possible path forward is:
Bonus points for a dramatic reveal to Auntie Ren, wherein she realizes how incredibly fucked she is.
- Get Hazou a Sharingan transplant (preferably cousin Itachi's Mangekyou)
- He then gets auto-adopted into the Uchiha as per the deal.
- Convince Cousin Sasuke to abdicate and/or push him down the stairs
- "It was a tragic accident. Family bowling night will never be the same without him."
- We are now the most powerful Uchiha in the clan.
- "What would Jiraiya do?"
- Doh! Obvious!
- We are now Lord Uchiha
Bonus points for a dramatic reveal to Auntie Ren, wherein she realizes how incredibly fucked she is.
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Noumero
Omit Needless Words
Now, I see a lot of potential issues with this deal, but I don't understand this particular one. Why is it bad? It's not like we're selling them for organs or into slavery, we'd be giving them a relatively happy life in Leaf's founding clan. Why does it suddenly become bad just because we're getting something concrete for it?
TaliesinSkye
Occasional Editor
- Location
- Northeast Ohio, United States
She didn't figure it out because she didn't have the Iron Nerve herself, didn't know the specifics of how it works. Someone with the Iron Nerve will absolutely figure it out if they find out the basics of how sealing works. It might not be the first IN person outside the clan that figures it out, but it'll happen eventually.
For me to be comfortable with it, we'd need to establish ahead of time that the two clans have the Uplift goals and will work together on projects and make decisions jointly as one entity. Like different families in one overarching clan. ISC, essentially. Could we get the Uchiha onboard with our vision of the future, and the profit we can both make from it while we save the world?
- Location
- Why would this be required?
Yeah that's not gonna happen, at least in this generation or even our lifetime. We already own their voting power with this deal meaning we can use that to push uplift further in Konoha politics, but trying to force a whole new philosophy foreign to the oldest founding clan running in the village is not only a ridiculous thing to force on them, but at worst it could even alienate them of the whole concept. Can we sell them on it in a few generations through the people they adopt/readopt/marry in from the Goketsu to the Uchiha? Absolutely, but what you're demanding is way too much and far too blunt.
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- Location
- Why would this be required?
That could deepen things further but I would assume they'll still expect Hazo to make babies with the girls they sent off. They're desperate for actual ninjas, not a political marriage with a clan of less than 10 people.plus Sasuke is their only ninja left, I don't know if they have anyone that would be worth actually marrying to Hazo.
- Location
- Why would this be required?
Basically, as horrid as it initially comes off, and as furious as Hazo should be for having this done without even discussing things with him, it is an incredibly good deal.
TaliesinSkye
Occasional Editor
- Location
- Northeast Ohio, United States
I suspect it's unworkable too, although maybe it's worth a shot anyway by pushing the 'these projects are also going to make anyone who participates in them fabulously rich, powerful, and respected' angle. We could pitch the alliance and its proposed goals to Sasuke.
I'm not going to sign off on giving the Iron Nerve away to people who aren't working with us. And that's before we even get to the problems of Hazou giving away children. Not good for the poor guy.
What we could do instead is make another deal to get the Uchiha ninja kids. There are some ways it could be done.
It's possible they'd act to ensure the adopted kids are loyal to the Uchiha first and nobody else second. It's what I'd do if I were them. They're worried about their clan ceasing to exist. They won't want encroachment like that.
- Location
- Pacific standard
Ahhh i love this threads mixture of practicality, wholesomeness, and psychopath
- Location
- Pacific standard
If there's other ways it could be done sasuke would have done them. He's not stupid, and npcs have their own agency. He's going for this because it's his first real shot.
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Also we will have to double down and treat Sasuke kids like family as well. We are letting the world know that we are the Uchiha and the Uchiha are Gōketsu. We are binding ourselves together in the deepest way. We just have to commit to it.
- Location
- Why would this be required?
They likely will, and I have nothing against that, but these are people we're talking about. As long as we can interact with those kids, as long as our future progeny marry into the clan with Goketsu ideas in their head, and as long as we own their voting power, the meshing will happen. At best Mari is completely right and the Uchiha end up subservient to the Goketsu, at worst we'll be so deeply connected by blood that it would be very hard to seperate an alliance between our two clans.
- Location
- Pacific standard
Hey oliwhail, when you eventually get caught up just know that I see and I appreciate you hugging all of my posts
TaliesinSkye
Occasional Editor
- Location
- Northeast Ohio, United States
I can see ways it could go very wrong.
- Location
- Italy
Morality isn't decide by how well the victim is.
If i beat someone almost to death, and then pay him millions to be silent, it doesn't make what i did "good".
Yes, they would live in a clan.
We would still be using children as political currency for a deal, children made just for that deal.
We would make them and use them,like money, without giving them a choice.
My joke about calling them "Ryo" is just half a joke, because that is how we're using them, and is intrisically immoral.
Do you remember Keiko discussion about children being born to be use of their parents? We would be said parents.
Also, a parent have a responsibility for their children, something that goes beyond "give them food and shelter".
I know i wouldn't want to be that child, brought into the world because my father was disgusting enough to use my existence as payment to an ally, and "i would not want this for me" it's more than enough for me and my morality radar.
Oh,and let' s add emotional manipulation to the mix, because it's normal to treat our children well to command their clan.
If one of them stab us in the face, i will say we earned it and "i told you".
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- Location
- Pacific standard
Hey guys, lets add something to our Ami training, then do it with sasuke.
It's fine motor control training, the goal is to knock a set of 10 blocks down with a single weighted ball.
It's fine motor control training, the goal is to knock a set of 10 blocks down with a single weighted ball.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
So here's the deal: With how many kids we are going to be sending over it's likely a good portion of their next generation of Ninja are going to be Goketsu in effect, and are likely to have Goketsu siblings, etc. We aren't so much selling off our kids as staging a peaceful takeover of the Uchiha clan.
To the people objecting for moral reasons: Really there isn't anything we can say here. I don't see the problem with this you do, because to me this just seems, well, "normal." Ultimately we aren't forcing anyone to do anything they are unwilling to do, and the kids are going to be fine and have us in their lives - and kids do not need their biological parents to have perfectly good lives.
To the people objecting for moral reasons: Really there isn't anything we can say here. I don't see the problem with this you do, because to me this just seems, well, "normal." Ultimately we aren't forcing anyone to do anything they are unwilling to do, and the kids are going to be fine and have us in their lives - and kids do not need their biological parents to have perfectly good lives.
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- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
No we are treating them well because it is the right thing to do. We are making sure that they are family. That there is no difference between the Uchiha and the Gōketsu.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Hmm.
The higher the percentage of their families that are Gouketsu, the higher their loyalty index to us will be. Hmmm...
....
So we need a bigger harem!
- Location
- Pacific standard
Point of order, there's no such thing as intrinsic morality. Or at least, we can't seem to find any hint of it. Look up blue orange morality if you want an example why.
This is a ninja deathworld. If we stick to shonen ideals and present day morals we will die a sad, insignificant death. Burn squads will still silently kill villages, and mankind will slowly dwindle.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
Staff Notice - Rule 6
First of all, this chapter was awesome for so many reasons. I was scared, hopeful, shocked, relieved, excited, laughing, proud...
Especially the fact that Hazou proved in story that his actions are aligned with his words, and even underlined it with a nascent KI. Or should it be Saving Intent?
And so much happened. And so much got done. It's great, really.
This reccuring comment type on the other hand I do not get. Men having sex with consenting women for the sole purpose of creating a child is a thing that gets done often enough in our own western society. How is this different? All we are is the biological father. And that doesn't mean more than what we make it mean, provided the children in question still end up with 2+ loving adults to raise them as their own.
That said, to make this ethical, each member of our harem should have the right to leave it and/or get adopted back into the Uchiha whenever they so desire. Give the Uchiha the right to make us adopt a replacement if necessary, but forcing a woman to become pregnant 5 times without her being enthusiastically in favor of the idea is, among other horrible things, rape.
In general, the pregnant every year for five years is a major sticking point to me. Pregnancy is a major health impact and mothering five children when you feel like X<5 is already more than you can handle isn't okay either. Even disregarding ethical concerns, what if one of the girls just doesn't get pregnant for whatever reason? Can the Uchiha treat that as a breach of contract?
I expect the actual contract to solve most practicality concerns and probably also protect both parties from any obvious loopholes and exploits. I don't expect Mari and her negotiating partner to have given the agency of the women in question sufficiently enough concern, so we will have to make sure that's amended.
Lastly, while I don't think there are too many rational reasons to be icked out and horrified, we do have to make sure we don't majorly disgust any of our allies with this. I have no idea what views Leaf clan ninja have on average regarding this. The Nara seem relatively egalitarian and fair minded, but as long as we protect the agency of everyone involved at least to a certain level they should understand. But what about, well, everyone else that could matter in any way?
And most importantly, what would Naruto think of this?
I noticeably left out the Bloodline subject. That's because I am still very undecided. Pros and cons come to mind, but it will require some thought.
To recap my opinion:
I am okay with whoring Hazou out in a few years. I am not okay with any form of rape. I am not okay with socially shunning women or ninja who don't want to participate, be it now or at any time in the future. I am concerned about image impact, due to having no clue on local morality regarding this. Naruto not signing off on this would be a deal breaker to me. I am very undecided when it comes to selling the Kurosawa Bloodline to the Uchiha.
Especially the fact that Hazou proved in story that his actions are aligned with his words, and even underlined it with a nascent KI. Or should it be Saving Intent?
And so much happened. And so much got done. It's great, really.
This reccuring comment type on the other hand I do not get. Men having sex with consenting women for the sole purpose of creating a child is a thing that gets done often enough in our own western society. How is this different? All we are is the biological father. And that doesn't mean more than what we make it mean, provided the children in question still end up with 2+ loving adults to raise them as their own.
That said, to make this ethical, each member of our harem should have the right to leave it and/or get adopted back into the Uchiha whenever they so desire. Give the Uchiha the right to make us adopt a replacement if necessary, but forcing a woman to become pregnant 5 times without her being enthusiastically in favor of the idea is, among other horrible things, rape.
In general, the pregnant every year for five years is a major sticking point to me. Pregnancy is a major health impact and mothering five children when you feel like X<5 is already more than you can handle isn't okay either. Even disregarding ethical concerns, what if one of the girls just doesn't get pregnant for whatever reason? Can the Uchiha treat that as a breach of contract?
I expect the actual contract to solve most practicality concerns and probably also protect both parties from any obvious loopholes and exploits. I don't expect Mari and her negotiating partner to have given the agency of the women in question sufficiently enough concern, so we will have to make sure that's amended.
Lastly, while I don't think there are too many rational reasons to be icked out and horrified, we do have to make sure we don't majorly disgust any of our allies with this. I have no idea what views Leaf clan ninja have on average regarding this. The Nara seem relatively egalitarian and fair minded, but as long as we protect the agency of everyone involved at least to a certain level they should understand. But what about, well, everyone else that could matter in any way?
And most importantly, what would Naruto think of this?
I noticeably left out the Bloodline subject. That's because I am still very undecided. Pros and cons come to mind, but it will require some thought.
To recap my opinion:
I am okay with whoring Hazou out in a few years. I am not okay with any form of rape. I am not okay with socially shunning women or ninja who don't want to participate, be it now or at any time in the future. I am concerned about image impact, due to having no clue on local morality regarding this. Naruto not signing off on this would be a deal breaker to me. I am very undecided when it comes to selling the Kurosawa Bloodline to the Uchiha.
TaliesinSkye
Occasional Editor
- Location
- Northeast Ohio, United States
I wonder if the anti-Hiashi coalition clans would be willing to offer the Uchiha some non-bloodline ninja marrying in for their abstention on the hat? That would create the new generation of ninja the Uchiha needed.
While I'm thinking on the topic, there's something I would really like to ask the Uchiha. Why do they want the Iron Nerve so badly? I feel like maybe there's something they know that we don't. Like, maybe an Uchiha blooded civilian and Iron Nerve bloodline holder will reliably produce sharingan children, or something?
While I'm thinking on the topic, there's something I would really like to ask the Uchiha. Why do they want the Iron Nerve so badly? I feel like maybe there's something they know that we don't. Like, maybe an Uchiha blooded civilian and Iron Nerve bloodline holder will reliably produce sharingan children, or something?