Remove ads

Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

Reader mode
Since the theory has been stated in character now, I kinda want to see our relationship with Ami explode.

Go to the second date and start off normally, but then abruptly switch to a robotic monotone voice and say something along the lines of "You have made a severe value misjudgment in your attempt to spare Keiko from the Mori. Specifically you underestimated the impact it would have to have the person Keiko hero worships throw her away. If Keikos happiness or ability to function is a part of your utility function, you should attempt to rectify that before the Goketsu leave Mist." Then continue as if you hadn't said anything. Ask if she's into polyAmiory.
 
Last edited:
Twinnstars said:
Go to the second date and start off normally, but then abruptly switch to a robotic monotone voice and say something along the lines of "You have made a severe value misjudgment in your attempt to spare Keiko from the Mori. Specifically you underestimated the impact it would have to have the person Keiko hero worships throw her away. If Keikos happiness or ability to function is a part of your utility function, you should attempt to rectify that before the Goketsu leave Mist." Then continue as if you hadn't say anything. Ask if she's into polyAmiory.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Ami said:
Abruptly, all trace of levity was gone from her expression. Her spine went ramrod straight, and her eyes narrowed ever so slightly. It made the bouncy, carefree Ami from before seem like a shallow façade.

"You do not require the comfort of arbitrary patterns of interaction? If so, we may continue much more efficiently by relying on a properly structured system. Branching linear structures surpass unconstrained spontaneity for our purpose, and the advantages in terms of managing uncertain power dynamics and adversarial information exchange are too obvious to state.

"Now, time is limited. Shall we proceed?"
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I agree that we should belatedly take that offer.
 
MMKII said:
2) I said a while ago I would do a comprehensive reaction post thingy once the exams are done. We are approaching that time, if not already there, so I suppose I should pony up. I will need to grab a new bottle of whiskey later first. Maybe bourbon....
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That sounds great. Looking forward to it!

Noumero said:
Typo: no opening quotation mark.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Fixed, thanks.

Tua said:
It was 100% meant to be a joke.

I am genuinely baffled by this interpretation, actually. I don't see myself as the type that avoids saying what I want to say and I had thought that came across through my post history, among the fact that I do tend to make posts on the humorous side of things.

Guess I was wrong though.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Really? Because here's what I'm reading.

Tua said:
But that would make me look bad and that just won't stand.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Velorien refuses to accept looking bad.

Tua said:
Therefore I just made them out to be liars instead.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Velorien distorts characterisation in order to avoid looking bad.

Tua said:
I get to be right and I get to gaslight people.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Velorien gaslights people.

If you can give me your "innocent joke" interpretation of those lines, I'm all ears.
 
Is Kagome ever not sweating nervously? He got dragged kicking and screaming (literally) into caring about a bunch of kids who somehow (*cough, Mari, cough*) convinced him to go to Leaf where he's gradually learning to care about people outside of his ingroup.
 
Cariyaga said:
Is Kagome ever not sweating nervously? He got dragged kicking and screaming (literally) into caring about a bunch of kids who somehow (*cough, Mari, cough*) convinced him to go to Leaf where he's gradually learning to care about people outside of his ingroup.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
By the way, on this topic:

We should get him do do more regular teaching stuff at the academy. "Explosives safety with Kagome Gouketsu" once every two weeks or so, for example.

He can get used to dealing with other people in a safe and comfortable environment: yelling about and/or to them about using explosives incorrectly and dangerously, while showing them how to apply explosives correctly and safely, all while being surrounded by the safety blanket provided by the relative density of explosives at his current location.
 
Last edited:
Velorien said:
If you can give me your "innocent joke" interpretation of those lines, I'm all ears.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
If I may give my own interpretation of it (since I did interpret it innocently), my impression was that they were effectively caricaturizing you -- taking the evil QM thing to its extreme for humor's sake.

MMKII said:
By the way, on this topic:

We should get him do do more regular teaching stuff at the academy. "Explosives safety with Kagome Gouketsu" once every two weeks or so, for example.

He can get used to dealing with other people in a safe and comfortable environment: yelling about them about using explosives incorrectly and dangerously, while showing them how to apply explosives correctly and safely, all while being surrounded by the safety blanket provided by the relative density of explosives at his current location.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I literally laughed out loud at the fact that Kagome's comfort zone is yelling at people about explosives and sealing safety. ...It's true, though.
 
On the whole @Velorien is evil joke, maybe as a thread we should avoid the term gaslighting? Because thats a very serious issue that is normally present in abusive relationships.


I don't know about you guys, but I really don't think we should be equating mixing up timelines with purposefully destroying someone's sense of reality. No bueno.
 
Twinnstars said:
On the whole @Velorien is evil joke
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I will say that I personally find the "MEANWHILE IN QM CHAT, EACH QM IS ONCE AGAIN CURRENTLY A ONE DIMENSIONAL CARICATURE OF THEIR MEME-D UP THREAD PERSONAS" style jokes to be a bit presumptuous and ... potentially in bad taste. It's quite easy to go too far with these and hurt someone's feelings.( They're also getting a bit stale, by my reckoning, but thats a bit tangential to that.)
 
Last edited:
Cariyaga said:
If I may give my own interpretation of it (since I did interpret it innocently), my impression was that they were effectively caricaturizing you -- taking the evil QM thing to its extreme for humor's sake.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Evil QM is "bwahahahaha, I will now inflict terrible suffering on the players for my own twisted amusement." A QM who distorts someone else's characterisation to avoid looking bad isn't evil. He's contemptible. I find it implausible that someone of @Tua's intellect and writing ability couldn't tell the difference.
 
Okay, let's do this.

Velorien said:
Noburi nodded. "Can this clan not go one day without drama?"
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

VOICES IN HAZOU'S HEAD: at least it's not the romcom gods this time

Velorien said:
"The truth is, I didn't want to tell Keiko about her sister because I thought there might still be a chance of getting them to reconcile before we left Mist. That wasn't something I could say to Keiko. She'd either be furious that I was meddling or heartbroken if it didn't work out."

"And instead you made her feel both."

"I was going to tell her!" Hazō exclaimed. "But then the letter came, and come on, how was anyone supposed to predict that?"

"Fair," Noburi said. "Though based on what you've told us, Mori's completely unpredictable. So looking at it another way, you should've planned for something to go wrong and told the two of us straight away."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Fair. That was definitely a mistake.

Velorien said:
"Yeah," Hazō said. "I messed up. And I messed up by not telling you in advance. I just thought it wouldn't be fair to make you keep a secret from Keiko too. At least this way, I was only putting myself in the line of fire."

Noburi raised an eyebrow. "So you know that 'not making people's decisions for them' thing people keep talking about?"
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Well, technically, we'd be making a decision for Noburi in that case as well - to figuratively put him in the line of fire. He'd get to choose where he wanted to stand on said line, but wouldn't have the option to step off it.

Velorien said:
"Just thinking. This came so completely out of left field for Keiko. She worshipped her sister. You'd think she'd know her better than that. You and I both knew what kind of reaction we'd get when we came back, but Keiko? It was like her world had turned upside down."

Noburi nodded. "I've been wondering about that myself. Twice as much now I've heard your report. I can't remember exactly what Keiko said, but it sounded like Mori did one of her switching things out of nowhere. One second, she was all sisterly, then Keiko told her she wasn't coming back for real and that was that. After what you've said, does Mori sound like such a hardcore clan loyalist that she'd throw away her sister the instant she found out Keiko had left the clan for good?"

"Right," Noburi said. "Keiko's valuable now. She's a summoner, she's the Hokage's daughter, she's going to be the Nara consort whether Lord Nara wants it or not… and let's be honest, she's not the hardest person in the world to manipulate if you know where her weak points are and are happy to exploit them. After the way they've treated Keiko in the past, at least from the hints she's dropped, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they went for it."

"Mori could have done that," Hazō said slowly. He recalled the sheer pain radiating from Keiko after her rejection. Imagined Mori being able to turn that on and off at will. Imagined that cunning, manipulative woman turning Keiko into a willing slave, making her beg to be given something to do that would earn her sister's approval. The wave of horror hit him worse than any jōnin aura.

"But she didn't!" Noburi said quickly. "Stay with me here, Hazō. Stay with me."

"Right," Hazō said. "Right. Sorry."

"Just imagining it makes me shiver," Noburi said. "Let's not do that ever again."

"Right," Hazō repeated.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

IC, that's a very strong argument in favor of Ami still caring about Keiko in some form. If she truly didn't care, she could've easily manipulated Keiko to further either her own goals or the Mori's. That she didn't, is meaningful.

Velorien said:
"She didn't," Noburi repeated. "That could just mean Mori isn't totally consumed by evil. It could mean that she's using up the last of her sibling love so she doesn't owe Keiko anything else—don't ask me how that works, but I can see it from a woman obsessed with favours. It could mean Mori feels so betrayed that she just doesn't want to ever interact with Keiko again, though then it doesn't make much sense of how she's getting so involved with our clan. It could be Step One for that thing we're never going to think about again, because even the ancestors can't fathom what's going through that woman's head. Frankly, I think trying to read her is a waste of our time."

"But there's still a chance," Hazō said. "There's still a chance that she's pushing Keiko away in order to protect her from everyone else. If Keiko loses Mori, she's got nothing left to anchor her to the rest of the clan after the way they've treated her."

"There's still a chance," Noburi echoed. "I don't see how you spending time with Mori could make things worse, unless she turns you into a tool to use against Keiko or something. But again, it would have been easier to do it herself.

"The idea of bringing the two of them back together, though," Noburi he said contemplatively. "Can you imagine how much it would fix? How much of Keiko's soul it would make right in a way we never could?"

"Tell me it isn't worth the risk," Hazō said.

"Just keep me in the loop this time. The world doesn't revolve around you, and just because Jiraiya's picked you as our point of contact doesn't mean there's nothing I can do."

Hazō clapped Noburi on the shoulder. "I'll be counting on you."

"Against my better judgement, I'll be counting on you too."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Noburi is in. Time to get this ball rolling again. Ami won't know what hit her.

Velorien said:
Hazō knocked on Noburi's door. The moment hadn't felt right last night
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Hazou using his own initiative in a social context to improve our plan? Next plan has to start with checking ears for Lupchanz.

Velorien said:
"Oh, Hazō, perfect timing. Check out what I set up yesterday and didn't bother to tell you."

Noburi stepped back to open the door all the way, revealing two small figures: one athletic-looking in an improbable orange outfit just a shade more formal than ordinary training gear, the other in a contrastingly subdued black kimono with the Wakahisa clan symbol.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Noburi is the best. Why doesn't Jiraiya want him to be the heir? He'd do a much better job than Hazou, as he is right now.

Wait a minute...

Velorien said:
Noburi stepped back to open the door all the way, revealing two small figures: one athletic-looking in an improbable orange outfit just a shade more formal than ordinary training gear, the other in a contrastingly subdued black kimono with the Wakahisa clan symbol.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Velorien said:
one athletic-looking in an improbable orange outfit just a shade more formal than ordinary training gear.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Velorien said:
improbable orange outfit
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I don't know what this means, but my heart desperately wants to vote for the Armageddon Initiative to fix the problem.

Velorien said:
"I'm nearly top of the class," Aya said perkily. "All I have to do is take down that Kurosawa slimeface."

The shorter girl gave a meaningful cough.

"Oh, no offence, sir."

"None taken," Hazō said, completely honestly. "I'll be cheering you on."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Just a casual reminder that if we want Hazou to conduct any kind of diplomacy with the Kurosawa involved, we're going to need to put in some amount of work. Hazou has very little chill when it comes to his former clan.

Velorien said:
Noburi took a few steps back, leaving the girls between them.

"Gōketsu Hazō, meet my twin sisters," Noburi said with a mischievous grin neither girl could see.

"We are not twins!" the taller one snapped.

"It's a filthy lie," the shorter one agreed.

"All right," Noburi said, "meet my sisters who used to claim they were twins back when they were younger and cuter and not a pair of little hellions."

The girls seemed to accept this as a reasonable compromise.

"This,"—Noburi pointed to the taller one on his left"—is Aya. She's ten and specialises in taijutsu."

"I'm nearly top of the class," Aya said perkily. "All I have to do is take down that Kurosawa slimeface."

The shorter girl gave a meaningful cough.

"Oh, no offence, sir."

"None taken," Hazō said, completely honestly. "I'll be cheering you on."

"This," Noburi pointed to the shorter girl with a smirk, "is Saya. She's eight and doesn't have a specialisation yet."

"Yes, I do!" Saya objected. "I'm going to be a seduction specialist!"

Hazō blinked twice, then gave Noburi a quizzical look. Noburi motioned for him to carry on the conversation, the traitor.

"How did you make that… decision?" Hazō asked carefully.

"You get to lie all day and sleep all night," Saya explained. "I don't know why anyone would ever specialise in anything else."

"Well," Hazō said, "I suppose Mari-sensei is always talking about how she needs her beauty sleep."

"We have yet to introduce ourselves formally," Saya said in a worryingly familiar tone of voice. She bowed deep. "My name is Wakahisa Saya. It is an honour to meet you. I humbly apologise for my sister's uncouth ways, and you have my gratitude for taking care of my inept brother during his time away."

Oh, no. Noburi had his own Hanabi.

"Pleased to meet you too. Do you, uh, always speak like that?" Maybe she'd rehearsed the lines and was really just a normal eight-year-old. There was always a chance.

"Oh, she was born with her nose in a scroll," Aya said matter-of-factly. "It was a very difficult delivery."

"I was not!" Saya tried to shove Aya, but the latter smoothly stepped out of the way, leading Saya to stumble. Saya glared.

"What actually happened was that Mother looked at Aya and realised that—"

"—she couldn't afford to create such a monster a second time/she was never going to top someone like me—"

"...and applied an unconventional child-rearing methodology. She began to read to me while I was still in the womb, and did not stop until I had the visual acuity to take over, and also persuaded older clan members to allow me to sit in on their discussions."

"Except Mum being the way she is," Aya added, "it was all history and philosophy and other heavy stuff I wouldn't touch with a barge pole. This one time, Dad said she should drop it and start reading Saya age-appropriate materials—you know, like 'Little Jimi Exposes the Traitor'—and Mum said that if he started trying to tell her how to raise her daughter, she'd make sure he could never have children again. With anyone."

"Our parents have an excellent relationship," Saya said proudly. "Their arguments never last long."

"But enough about the scroll-eating larva," Aya said. "I am Wakahisa Aya, and it's a pleasure to meet you." She bowed, but only briefly. "That thing you did with the tags? Totally awesome. I've been waiting forever to ask you how you did that, only Dad didn't want us talking to your clan, but—"

"Shut up, Aya," Saya interrupted. "We were explicitly instructed not to discuss politics during this visit."

"But you already admitted," Noburi said," that the elders overruled Dad because of our exam performance and whatever it is the Hokage's doing in the negotiations."

"I never admitted that!" Aya exclaimed.

"She did not," Saya confirmed. "It was merely implied. As an expert, I can tell you there's a world of difference."

"So there!" Aya said. "And you were only guessing anyway. Elder Katsuji could have been talking to him about anything."

Saya nodded triumphantly.

"Oh!" she brightened up. "Even if we're not allowed to discuss politics, Father said nothing about discussing philosophy!"

Aya groaned. "Do we have to?"

"Yes, we have to. We're here as semi-formal representatives of the clan, so we have to impress Mr Gōketsu, and we know he likes philosophy because of his ran—nalysis during his match.

"Now," Saya went on, "I should probably preface any discussion with by saying that the Will of Fire is a perfectly internally consistent and rational ideology, and that it does not lead its believers to become physically degenerate, mentally and emotionally stunted, and spiritually impoverished. If we grant that premise—"

Aya's fist came down on the top of Saya's head. Saya ducked under it, and retreated to hide behind Noburi.

"What was that for?!"

"I'm not a philosopher," Aya said, "but even I know that you're about to do that comparative thingy, and that's definitely politics if you're doing it with a foreigner."

"Is not!"

"Is too!"

"Is not!"

"Is too!"

"Noburi!" Saya appealed. "Tell her I'm allowed to do comparative ideological analysis!"

"Don't listen to her! She doesn't even know what half those words mean!"

"Do too!"

"Do not!"

Aya gave Hazō a quick bow. "Would you excuse me for a second?"

Then she turned around and attempted to grab Saya, who spun so as to keep Noburi between her and her sister. Aya moved to continue the pursuit. Saya continued fleeing.

"This is unrepresentative!" she cried before ducking under Aya's grasping hands.

Hazō gave Noburi a questioning look as the boy became the eye of an accelerating whirlwind.

Noburi shrugged. "So now you know why I'm so chilled-out. It was either that or go insane. Don't worry, in a few minutes they'll remember you're still here and panic, and it'll be hilarious to watch."

"You know," Hazō said, "maybe we got the right Wakahisa after all."

"Gee, thanks. You're marginally more useful than your relatives too, Mr Mew."

"Watch it or I might change my mind, Barrel Boy."

Perfect silence. Aya and Saya stopped in mid-chase.

Ah, crap.

"Which as we all know," Hazō went on smoothly, "is just an old codename to trick our enemies for when Noburi wasn't wearing his barrel."

Aya and Saya's cold looks did not get any warmer.

He glanced at Noburi pleadingly.

"Don't worry," Noburi said, "it was my idea. He tried arguing against it because it was demeaning, but I told him I wasn't so petty that I'd refuse a little humiliation for the good of the team."

Hazō relaxed.

"Of course, it was only fair for him to pay me back after everything I had to go through. That's why these days, he calls me Master."

"Really?" Saya said sceptically.

"Go on, Hazō." Noburi smirked.

"Yes, Master," Hazō said through gritted teeth.

"You have a message!" one of the ANBU called out from downstairs.

"Well, that's just great," Noburi said. "Now shoo, girls. Hazō and I have important things to talk about."

"But Noburi!" the sisters objected in unison.

Noburi said two words. "Leaf sweets."

Aya and Saya gave Hazō deep bows and were gone before he could respond.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

This whole part is simply precious. Why does everyone else get cute minions, while Hazou gets left alone in the cold? We must rectify this injustice!

Velorien said:
Can't wait to watch to see A trying to flex his muscles at Ren and Ren laughing her head off behind her Iron Nerve mask.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I feel like my model of how the Kage negotiations go was just summarily invalidated.

Velorien said:
It was only a couple of minutes after he left that Hazō began to get a very bad feeling. "Wait, you told him about the Keiko running away thing, right?"

"He came back after I went to bed, and then my sisters turned up first thing in the morning. I thought you were going to tell him because you'd be up making seals until late anyway so it wouldn't cut into your sleep."

"I thought you were going to tell him because I'd be up making seals all until late and needed to concentrate."

"This could be a problem," Noburi concluded.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Whoops. It's just one thing after another for Jiraiya, isn't it? On one hand, we're undoubtedly successful in a lot of important ways as his adopted children. On the other, we're definitely high-maintenance. A lesser man would've been exhausted handling Hazou by himself.

Hmm, does anyone object to seriously arguing to Jiraiya that Noburi should be the heir?
 
MadScientist said:
And yet we find ourselves in a timeline where multiple players (myself included) interpreted Tua's comment to be exactly that joke.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Does anyone remember a poster called Kian? He once posted this masterwork of trolling, a post so magnificent that most of the player base was taken in, myself included. Fortunately, I eventually snapped out of it and wrote this analysis, and the "I'm sure he didn't mean it that way" interpretation died once and for all.

That in itself is not an accusation of trolling. It's a reminder that large numbers of players can easily be wrong.
 
Everyone makes social misjudgements sometimes. I find it entirely believable that Tua could make one, regardless of his intellect or writing skill, regarding how his attempt at a joke would have been taken. That said, I don't think this line of discussion is especially productive at this point.

e: Also, I acknowledge that as a person I am significantly more inclined to give benefit of the doubt than the median person is.
 
Last edited:
Roomba said:
Hmm, does anyone object to seriously arguing to Jiraiya that Noburi should be the heir?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yes.

Noburi is not actually ruthless enough for the job. He's extremely socially perceptive, but he lacks the ruthlessness or creativity to pursue nonstandard or potentially cutthroat options.

Naruto can get by without all that by virtue of being a demigod, but I don't think Noburi could.
 
MMKII said:
Yes.

Noburi is not actually ruthless enough for the job. He's extremely socially perceptive, but he lacks the ruthlessness or creativity to pursue nonstandard or potentially cutthroat options.

Naruto can get by without all that by virtue of being a demigod, but I don't think Noburi could.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Meanwhile, we get by on, uh, actually, what do we get by on again? :V
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top