Why are we still not bringing the pangolins along to party? They deserve to celebrate too, and the probability of kidnapping attempts would drop dramatically.



It feels like every time ((the characters stay in one place for more than ~5 updates) or (a plot arc takes more than ~5 updates)), we start getting comments like this.

It's less being tied in place, and more being tied down without Kagome. Occasional interludes can only help so much with the withdrawal.



This is true.

I propose talking to Ren and calling her out on the all the shit she and the Kurosawa put her sister through, because guilt tripping her would A)Make Hana position more secure B) be fucking cathartic C) give us insight on her thinking and did i mention being fucking cathartic?
("So, how did it betraying mum...sorry, i meant your sister,felt?""She betrayed the clan first" "And made me, sorry for being born, Auntie")
I would love the see her calmly explaining to her why our life was so shitty thanks to the Kurosawa.
That and maybe we can find information on how our dad died, just for closure, unless we already acquired this information and i missed it.
That and talking to Ami.
Maybe trying to meet Ryugamine for shit and giggles.
...
We could plant some rumors on Uplift among the civilians, ideas like "Ninja and non-ninja should help each other" and "Why ninja always fight", to help us in the long term.
We are in Mist, let's do something.

Oh, no, I totally understood your point, I just disagree with it in this scenario.

For starters, if we just picked something interesting [that furthered our goals] and voted for it then we would probably cause an incident of some kind. So the space of things we can do is bounded by "things that we are sufficiently confident won't just create more problems". This rules out things like talking to the oyabun without discussing matters with Jiraiya, talking to diplomats or Ami or the Kage or whoever, or challenging Ren to a duel for the Mizukage hat.

Though it hadn't occurred to me that we could ask for more time, (and that allays a lot of my concerns), the answer to the question "so what?" is "so we might as well have just timeskipped over the time we spent on that task that we couldn't complete".

And finally, there's the matter of actually campaigning to get the thread to do a thing. Personally, I did try on that front. I suggested to the hivemind to get Hazou to subvert Ikeda immediately after her match when she was emotionally drained and would be vulnerable to Hazou's manipulations. Nothing came of it until now and the context of the current plan is very different.

As the person who has probably actively campaigned the loudest to do interesting things I've discovered I to be a waste of time. Ideas are instantly shot down if there is any risk at all. People will constantly say to wait or ask for permission. Which makes sure it never happens. Even when I created a conspiracy to do the absolute minimum to advance a long term goal things are instantly abandoned. I've completely given up doing anything interesting or challenging

I still remember how many weeks of shouting, "Hey, FREE MONEY!", it took to get any traction at all, and even then I had to pull teeth the whole way to get the most watered-down form over the finish line.
 
I don't really understand this line of thought, could you explain why you see it this way?
It's not unreasonable to label "I'll do this, but only if it gets approved in triplicate by Alice, Bob, Carl and Denise." as gatekeeping of a sort.

We are falling into a habit of "Ask Jiraiya if its okay to wipe your ass." levels of asking for permission. We don't necessarily need to do this with every little thing.

Though I think clearing the Ami thing with him might be prudent. As long as we're clear that its just to get a feel for her motives.

Sure is. It's also very straightforward about what we want out of the conversation. The way you 'beat' social specialists is to not engage with them on their level. Be straightforward, to the point, earnest, and do not let them sway you.

(Speaking from experience here. :p)
Yeah but I mean, we don't need to come out the gate with "What can we do to keep you in Keiko's life?" since thats probably a heavy topic for her emotionally.

I'm fine with "Keiko is important to me. You're important to Keiko. So I'd like to get to know you a little bit and vice versa, if thats okay. Here's some of my idealogy about the current world and civilians. What do you think?" or something similar. I dunno.
 
Not MadScientist, but I don't want to talk to Ami because of her status as a Jonin-level prodigy with the Mori bloodline who also happens to be part of a third faction in Mist whose goals are as of yet unknown, not to mention the fact that Jiraiya apparently cannot read her, nor figure out what her (and her faction's) goals are. Keep in mind that Jiraiya is the Hokage, Leaf's premier spymaster, and probably one of the best Konoha-allied social fighters alive. This paints a picture that is terrifying as fuck, and I sure as hell don't want to get involved with that.

Also, Ami managed to get blackmail material on Jiraiya. Blackmail material. On Jiraiya.

While that's all true, it's still not an actual risk assessment. We hang around really scary people all the time. This thread had been salivating over the prospect of meeting Orochimaru since the start of the quest, and he's objectively at least as scary as Ami.

Like, if the idea had been "propose a political marriage to Ami", I'd have been much more reluctant to even start brainstorming the method. But it's not. To start with, we just want to talk, see what happens. We've literally seen inside the girl's head via a gracious interlude, that must count for some kind of advantage.

Well... unless we go in like "I want my sister to be happy. You are a necessary part of her happiness. What needs to happen for you to feel comfortable being part of her life?"

That is one of the ways we could tackle it, though I expect we'd just get stonewalled. One of the actual benefits of high Deception is that you can't tell whether what you're saying is having any effect on the other person, after all.

One of the more interesting ideas I've heard was to subtly point out to Ami that the special envoy position in Konoha is recently vacant, though...
 
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The way things look to me, a Wakahisa could store all their chakra in a small 0.5L flask but then they would only have one serving of water - whoever they give any water to will get all of the Wakahisa's water and there's no water left for any more replenishing of anything.

So instead, the Wakahisa carry around barrels full of 'enough' servings of water, and whenever they need to replenish someone they put exactly as much as they need in that serving and still have plenty of water and chakra to give to others.
I suppose that makes sense, except for the part about putting the right amount of chakra in a given serving. If they could infuse the water on the fly they wouldn't need a special barrel to keep the chakra from escaping prematurely, any old barrel would do because they only put the chakra in the water right before it's used. They're probably stuck with setting the desired concentration level in the whole barrel, and just alter the water amount drunk to suit the amount a particular person needs to replenish.
 
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I don't really understand this line of thought, could you explain why you see it this way?
Sure. The first thing is that the hivemind is bad at inacting any long term plans. Successfully getting two votes in a row to advance interacting with Ami is a significantly high barrier that the odds greatly go down. Secondly we would be establishing a precedent that we have to check with every NPC before any meaningful interaction which will bog us down further. Lastly @Cariyaga was a player who pre-committed to asking Jiraiya about contacting Orchimaru as soon we got back to leaf. Since they then reneged on that I am predisposed to not believe them when they say conditions must be meet before they will support a course of action
 
NB: We actually have this same blackmail material. We just don't know it yet.

I'm 99% sure its that Mari murdered her own uncle.
Interesting theory. Would it matter if it came out that Mari killed her own abusive civilian uncle? She's a citizen of another country now, and people basically shrug when a ninja kills a civilian in most places. Even if people didn't know about the abusive part they might assume that the guy did something stupid to prompt it.
 
Not MadScientist, but I don't want to talk to Ami because of her status as a Jonin-level prodigy with the Mori bloodline who also happens to be part of a third faction in Mist whose goals are as of yet unknown, not to mention the fact that Jiraiya apparently cannot read her, nor figure out what her (and her faction's) goals are. Keep in mind that Jiraiya is the Hokage, Leaf's premier spymaster, and probably one of the best Konoha-allied social fighters alive. This paints a picture that is terrifying as fuck, and I sure as hell don't want to get involved with that.

Also, Ami managed to get blackmail material on Jiraiya. Blackmail material. On Jiraiya.

Isn't finding out what the third faction wants even more reason to talk to her? We probably won't find out if she doesn't want to tell us or lies to us but not asking is just losing outright. She may actually be open to talk to us. Why?

Specifically because we are no Jiraiya level ninja.

You mentioned all the negatives but didn't consider the positives: We are not someone Ami should inherently see as a threat. We are the people who kept her sister alive and helped her grow while she was cut off from the civilized world. While I don't expect her to necessarily be openly grateful about that, I do expect her to give us a chance to prove ourselves at the least since we earned that much.

Also, her having blackmail material on Jiraiya matters why? If she is that skilled she already has blackmail material on us (and many other people) and talking to her doesn't change that fact. She can try to intimidate or manipulate us (if we want to be pessimistic) but that only works if the plan doesn't have a proper Abort Trigger - and only then until the next update like what happened the last time Hazou talked to Hana: the hivemind assumed direct control and realigned his priorities pretty quickly.

Not speaking to you specifically but sometimes I wonder if people see "Talk to Ami" in a plan and then somehow imagine this:

AMI: Hello, I am Mori Ami. As someone close to my sister I would like to get to know you better.

HAZOU: I INVENTED SKYWALKERS, IT LET'S US WALK ON AIR, ALSO SOMETIMES I TIE UP KEIKO WITH ROPE HAHA! YOU WANNA SEE MY SEALS COLLECTION?!

AMI: ...

<scene ends with Hazou signing over his life to Ami>

The courageous enter dark caves alone. The clever send in the courageous first. The cleverest wait behind the clever.
 
Sure. The first thing is that the hivemind is bad at inacting any long term plans. Successfully getting two votes in a row to advance interacting with Ami is a significantly high barrier that the odds greatly go down. Secondly we would be establishing a precedent that we have to check with every NPC before any meaningful interaction which will bog us down further. Lastly @Cariyaga was a player who pre-committed to asking Jiraiya about contacting Orchimaru as soon we got back to leaf. Since they then reneged on that I am predisposed to not believe them when they say conditions must be meet before they will support a course of action
When did I do that? I don't recall that and I think I'd probably feel quite bad about having done so if I did. What were the circumstances?

e: That said, I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't assume you know what's going on in my head better than I do regardless.
 
Isn't finding out what the third faction wants even more reason to talk to her? We probably won't find out if she doesn't want to tell us or lies to us but not asking is just losing outright. She may actually be open to talk to us. Why?

Specifically because we are no Jiraiya level ninja.

You mentioned all the negatives but didn't consider the positives: We are not someone Ami should inherently see as a threat. We are the people who kept her sister alive and helped her grow while she was cut off from the civilized world. While I don't expect her to necessarily be openly grateful about that, I do expect her to give us a chance to prove ourselves at the least since we earned that much.

Also, her having blackmail material on Jiraiya matters why? If she is that skilled she already has blackmail material on us (and many other people) and talking to her doesn't change that fact. She can try to intimidate or manipulate us (if we want to be pessimistic) but that only works if the plan doesn't have a proper Abort Trigger - and only then until the next update like what happened the last time Hazou talked to Hana: the hivemind assumed direct control and realigned his priorities pretty quickly.

Not speaking to you specifically but sometimes I wonder if people see "Talk to Ami" in a plan and then somehow imagine this:

AMI: Hello, I am Mori Ami. As someone close to my sister I would like to get to know you better.

HAZOU: I INVENTED SKYWALKERS, IT LET'S US WALK ON AIR, ALSO SOMETIMES I TIE UP KEIKO WITH ROPE HAHA! YOU WANNA SEE MY SEALS COLLECTION?!

AMI: ...

<scene ends with Hazou signing over his life to Ami>

The courageous enter dark caves alone. The clever send in the courageous first. The cleverest wait behind the clever.
Joking aside, I expect we'd also earn points with her for telling her about Keiko's 'I'm just a tool for others to use' problem and asking her for her honest advice on how best to support Keiko with that and her other issues.
 
Joking aside, I expect we'd also earn points with her for telling her about Keiko's 'I'm just a tool for others to use' problem and asking her for her honest advice on how best to support Keiko with that and her other issues.
And lose orders of magnitude more points since our mental model of her should be as an enemy.

Seriously, our only in-character knowledge of her is when she rejected Keiko and the information Jiraiya gave us.
 
And lose orders of magnitude more points since our mental model of her should be as an enemy.

Seriously, our only in-character knowledge of her is when she rejected Keiko and the information Jiraiya gave us.
We also know that Keiko loves the hell out of her, and couldn't give a damn about all the other people she's related to. That tells us she's probably a decent person, at least where Keiko is concerned.
 
And lose orders of magnitude more points since our mental model of her should be as an enemy.

Seriously, our only in-character knowledge of her is when she rejected Keiko and the information Jiraiya gave us.
Well, we also know that she means a lot to Keiko, and based on what Mari said -- and she was in position to have learned of her -- cares about her greatly.
 
And lose orders of magnitude more points since our mental model of her should be as an enemy.

Seriously, our only in-character knowledge of her is when she rejected Keiko and the information Jiraiya gave us.
She's no more Hazou's enemy than Noburi's little sisters are though.

Is she a potential threat? Yeah. An enemy? No.

I would prefer we get knowledge on a Known Unknown before it bites us in the ass later.
 

Hazō was most of the way through his hot chocolate when Noburi returned. The other boy had lagged behind as Hazō went home after the match and had remained absent for the two hours since. The expression on his face suggested that part of his absence might have been due to getting his feelings under control.

"Noburi!" Hazō said, abanding his chocolate in favor of meeting his sibling at the door. "You're back!"

"Welcome home," Keiko said from the kitchen table. "We were starting to get worried."

"Had a thing. That's done, so on to more important stuff! Great job on that fight, Hazō," Noburi said, clapping Hazō on the back with only slightly too much force while wearing a smile that was at least partially sincere. "I got worried when those clones tagged yoUUUUUU—!"

The gasp/scream at the end was, of course, due to Hazō grabbing his brother and squeezing the entire life out of him in a hug that did indeed owe something to his grappling training under Shiomi-sensei back at the Academy. (Momma, of course, preferred keeping her enemies at an appropriate distance to be carved into giblets, so she had never spent much time working with him on grappling. Mari-sensei had repeatedly and loudly expressed her feeling that grappling was a sweaty, dirty, unbecoming art form practiced only by people who couldn't manage to fight standing up and that her dislike of it had nothing to do with being at least half a foot shorter and up to a hundred pounds lighter than many potential opponents. Shiomi-sensei had grunted his contempt for those who dismissed the art and thrown Hazō to the ground, showing him the merits of a properly-applied side control and how easily it led into a devastating armbar.)

"Thank you," Hazō said, releasing a gasping Noburi. "The way you got the crowd on my side was great. I really appreciate it."

"It was nothing," Noburi grunted, bent over and trying desperately to inhale.

"Seriously, it was a lot," Hazō said. "I think I pushed a little too hard with the explosive banter and the judges might actually have disqualified me if you hadn't gotten the crowd going."

Hazō decided to interpret Noburi's smile as pleasure at having been useful instead of at the thought of Hazō being disqualified.

"Anyway, we've been waiting for you. Jiraiya told me two things: First, that I just gave away the fact that we have an armor jutsu—"

Noburi facepalmed.

"—and, second, that we should go out and party because it's the expected thing. So what do you say? Want to grab Ino-Shika-Chō and that Sand team, go get loaded, hit on girls, and tear up the town?"

Noburi pulled his hand away from his face, peering at Hazō suspiciously. "'Get loaded, hit on girls, and tear up the town'?" He cocked his head in thought, then punched Hazō in the chest, hard.

"Ow!" Hazō said. "What was that for?"

"I was checking for...dunno. It seemed like a good idea at the time. Anyway, are you quoting Jiraiya or something?"

Hazō rubbed his neck in embarrassment. "No, I was just trying to be fun." He reached into a pocket and handed Noburi a paper. "Would you mind taking a post-interaction survey to grade the success of my 'fun'ness and specify precisely where it could be improved?"

Noburi snorted and tucked the paper away. "Maybe later. Someone promised me booze, girls, and tearing. Keiko, you coming?"

"No. The crowds have no appeal. You boys enjoy yourselves. Don't stay out too late."

Hazō turned to face his sister so that he and Noburi could both stare in shock.

"Do not even dream of punching me," Keiko hissed.

"Uh...no, of course not," Hazō stammered. "Just...that isn't really the kind of thing I would expect you to say."

"Hmph. I was attempting to model Mari-sensei's humor." She cocked her head. "Perhaps it would have worked better had I added 'Don't do anything I wouldn't do'?"

The boys snorted.

"We'll see you later," Hazō said. "Try not to scare anyone into a heart attack."

"I make no promises."

o-o-o-o​

"Why, exactly, am I being offered a sweaty and filthy shirt?" asked Inuzuka Mayu, tucking her hands behind herself to make it clear that should not be accepting the offending garment.

"Your sanity will likely suffer less damage if you do not insist on an explanation," Nara said.

"That's one of my training shirts," Hazō explained, blithely ignoring the comment. "Jiraiya said that we could go out on the town to celebrate, but to watch out for kidnap attempts since this many clan heirs in one place could be a tempting target. I figured I should give you something with my scent on it to make it easier for you to track us if there's a problem."

Inuzuka eyed him in amusement. "Kid, we spent two days on the trail together getting here. Akabunto and I know your stink perfectly well without needing to stick our faces in a refugee from the rag bin." Her nin dog, currently leaning against her leg with sufficient force that she had to brace against it, barked agreement and lolled his tongue in a doggie-grin that held just as much amusement as his two-leg partner's.

"Oh," Hazō said. "Right. Sorry."

Inuzuka shrugged, amused. "No worries. At least you're the type who thinks ahead. Better than I can say about some." She gave Kiba a speaking look.

"Hey!"

"Don't worry about it," the jōnin said. "Go have a good time. At least two of us will be keeping a discreet eye on you. You won't see us, but we'll see you."

"Right," Hazō said, his tone decidedly ambivalent. "Okay, thanks."

o-o-o-o​

"Come dance!" Hazō said, dragging Ikeda out of her seat and towards the dance floor. The Sand team had been surprised to get the invite and had checked with their jōnin-sensei before agreeing. Said jōnin-sensei was currently two tables over, being remarkably undiscreet about watching the celebrating genin.

Ikeda resisted for only a moment, then changed her mind and went along. The floor was crowded with civilians, but wherever the ninja moved there was at least a full body-length of empty space on all sides of them.

Neither Hazō nor Ikeda knew any actual dance steps, but that was all right. The band was shatteringly loud, the drum beat was so deep that it was impossible to miss (mostly because it rattled the bones), and they were both young, flexible, and physically coordinated. Their arms-length energetic bouncing was at least as good as most of the civilians who surrounded them.

"I see you're also a fan of bombing your own position!" Hazō shouted, leaning close so the girl could hear him over the sounds of a steel-string zither screaming at the hands of a talented and clearly insane master.

"It gets the job done!"

"Cool! We should get together tomorrow sometime, grab a drink!"

Ikeda laughed and twirled away, then back. "Looks to me like you've already had a few!"

Hazō had, in fact, emptied half a dozen large mugs of strong sake already. About half of one—just enough to give his cheeks a bit of a flush—had gone in his mouth, two had been spilled after just a sip, and the rest had had enough fruit soaking in them that there wasn't actually much room for booze. The girls from Sand had been far more moderate, but Akimichi had been matching him drink for drink and seemed utterly unaffected. Nara had politely held a mug all evening but Hazō hadn't seen it actually touch his lips. Ino had spent most of the night drinking fruit juice and trying to get Hazō to slow down. Noburi, aware of the plan, had been running interference for him, loudly declaiming Hazō's inalienable right to make poor choices.

"I'm celebrating!" he said, allowing the Iron Nerve to replay the slight slurring he'd experienced when Jiraiya took them out partying after the fifth event. He had a limited drunken vocabulary and nothing at all in his bloodline's library of motions for convincingly looking drunk while dancing, but he was doing his best to fake it. (Note to self, he thought. Get drunk in safe circumstances and perform various actions so as to have them in the Iron Nerve.)

"You were amazing!" he continued. "Boom! Skoosh!" He flung his arms out dramatically. "Gian' pillar of fire!"

She danced closer, running her hands up through her hair (newly shortened and styled to cover up the fact that half of it had been burned off in the aforementioned giant pillar of fire). She gave him a wicked smile as she turned and pressed her back into him, her hips moving in time with his own. She tilted her head so she could speak into his ear at a volume less than a shout. "You weren't so bad yourself. I thought he had you."

"Nah," he said, waving dismissively and deliberately losing track of the beat for a moment as she made contact. He put his hands on her hips and 'recovered' his step, desperately trying not to let her heat distract him. Had he actually been as drunk as he was pretending, all OPSEC would have fallen away at this point, so it was a good opportunity to seed the misinformation he'd been angling for when he invited her in the first place. "M'uncle always says that explosives solve everything. Boom! Squish!" He released her so that he could gesture wildly again, then put his hands back.

"Well, you sure are tough to walk it off like that. You can still smell the smoke in my hair." She looked down and to the side, putting her neck and hair almost under his nose.

"Dunno," he mumbled, nuzzling her a little. It was, on the one hand, very appealing; she was lithe, attractive, and muscular in a way that was making his breathing stutter and his pulse race. On the other, it reminded him of Akane and what they could perhaps have had if only he had been more aware or she had been more communicative. The thought instantly killed his body's interest and he desperately started channeling the Iron Nerve's recollection of his own movements from thirty seconds ago in order to not blow his cover.

"I don' smell any smoke," he said, making himself nip her neck in a way that he'd seen Jiraiya do to make Mari-sensei squeal. (The memory served to strangle to death any trace of lust that might have somehow squeezed past his thoughts of Akane.) "An' it wasn't that hard."

"Yeah?" she said, looking over her shoulder at him and reaching back so she could trail one hand down his cheek while grinding into him. "You're tougher than you look."

"Nah," he said, flashing her the pleased grin he'd worn the first time that Kagome-sensei commented that Hazō's seal blank was 'not entirely awful'. "Normal Kurosawa stuff, that's all." He jolted, his steps stuttering as his eyes went wide to exactly the degree they had done when Jiraiya told him about the OPSEC implications of demonstrating armor jutsu. "I mean, I used him as a meatshield. He had this defensive blood construct that he was using. I grabbed him and swung him between me and the tags. His armor...shield...whatever it was, it soaked most of the blast and then he took the rest of it." He stepped back from her. "Let's take a break. I could use another drink."

Ikeda wasn't nearly good enough to keep the smile completely off her face, but she did her best.

"Sounds good," she purred. "I'll buy this time."

The Kurosawa clan had nothing (that he was aware of) that would let you tank an explosion to the face, but it was extremely good at ensuring that you didn't give away your satisfaction of a lie well planted.





XP AWARD: 1 + (1 for brevity)

Vote time! What to do now?

Voting ends on Wednesday, January 9, 2019, at 12pm London time.

Hmm.... I actually really liked this chapter. I'm moderately surprised. Mostly, I guess it's really nice to see Hazou capable of performing a con when he's prepared for it and has ideas. Towards this, I'm quite comfortable being proactive in Mist for the remainder of our stay. Things which I think would be useful:

  • Make foreign connections for merchants
  • Ask around for what sorts of random material needs different countries have -- after all, the basis of trade is that somebody's got a need. Gotta know what other people's needs are for us to benefit from it.
  • Determine if civilian needs are the same across different lands
  • Make contacts whom we can send letters or something to for casual assume-this-is-compromised-but-still-communication
  • Solidify our relationship with the Yakuza
  • Lay misinformation campaigns or stubs for later (whether it's a misinformation campaign or a plan stub for later largely depends on the success of the interaction)
    • Ask around about the idea of a civilian village with ninja protectors from each country
    • Ask about expanding into new land -- possibly joint training exercises killing chakra beasts?
    • Ask around about idea of significantly increasing trade -- find out what people are proud of about their country, ask if there's a way we could sample it at all
    • Ask about chakra beasts in lands, trying to figure out what sort of materials would be useful -- offer trades on stuff that sounds useful -- e.g. nice smelling scents from chakra beasts, really tasty stuff, stuff that makes construction easier (surely somebody's got a chakra beast that shoots out fast setting concrete?), super caffine, durable wool for clothing, etc. Obviously if somebody's willing to trade weapons grade stuff, we'll go for it, but we want to express interest in things which *aren't* military hazards
    • Ask about civilian conditions -- spread the idea of Till 'n fill missions to other countries, especially if they can get civilians to stay alive and process chakra beast stuff for us
  • Other than that, it'd be reasonable to try to get a profile on the jounin who are around
I would like to take a moment to highlight something thats come up the last 20 chapters or so.

We need to be a bit more proactive in moving game pieces into position.


  • Didn't immediately run around apologizing to people for Orgy Night, and had nothing in place to deal with the rumors.
    • Result: This was not really cleared up at all. Not really a bad thing but its still a learning experience.
  • Express ordering some custom made outfits for the CHAOS suits.
    • Result: We found a tailor, it got done in time.
  • Waited until we were in Mist to approach the Yaks about gambling.
    • Result: Less gains than we could have had comparatively.
  • Last minute Hail Mary throw to plant some disinfo about this.
    • Result: This worked out okay, from what I can tell.

Some of this is context dependent and obviously situational, but I can't imagine that having more options available (and with less red tape)at any given point in time is a bad thing.

Not saying that we need to be ridiculous about it, but expanding our contacts list a bit and being more proactive in setting things up for potential moves later is good practice.

Instances where I think we've done this well (that I can think of):

  • Red Team One folks. We sent them letters and stuff to keep up good relations.
  • Having Noburi work/bribe the crowd beforehand. That worked out quite well.
  • Told the nice ANBU lady where we were going, and gave her some dirty laundry to sniff in case we got kidnapped.
    • Gross.
  • Bullshat around with some merchants a few chapters ago. We should follow up on this some more.
  • Sand Genin had a good time, and we invited them for a drink tomorrow. Cool.
    • Let's not get Ino too jealous though.


Lets do some more of this please.

I'd agree with this. I won't have time to put any of the above ideas which I wrote up into an action plan, but I'll totally vote for a plan which I'm tagged in which includes one or more of the ideas.
 
[] Plan Part: Ami Means Friend
  • Tell Jiraiya that you'd like to meet with Mori Ami. We'll keep OPSEC as much as possible and would appreciate any advice.
  • If Jiraiya doesn't object, go to the Mori Clan compound and speak to any of their administrative staff.
    • We would like to have a friendly meeting with Mori Ami, sister of our teammate Keiko.
    • If asked why, focus on positives. Keiko has said good things about Ami, who seems like a loving sister. We care about Keiko, so we care about the people she cares about.
This seems fairly low risk, and depending on response, we can call off the meeting or proceed forward as needed, but this at least gives us the option of meeting in the future.
 
Is it time for bad decisions? Yes it is.

[] Proto Plan: The A(m)I Box Experiment
  • Schedule an appointment to speak to Ami.
    • Consult with Jiraiya beforehand so as to minimise the possibility of Bad Things.
    • Do not attempt any manipulations. They will not work.
    • Assume that Ami is fully capable of manipulating you any way she wants. Do not make any agreements with her, and if prompted to do so, respond that you will consider matters and return with an answer before you leave Mist. DO NOT buckle under pressure here. DO NOT be swayed to give a more minor agreement as a concession. NO EXCEPTIONS.
    • Nothing Ami says is evidence that should be immediately updated upon. Merely filed away for later examination. There is no way for you to distinguish between Ami saying something and believing it and Ami saying something to manipulate you. Treat her as a potentially-hostile clone of Mari with Kei's intellect.
    • Constantly remind yourself that the woman in front of you plays at the same level as (or even higher than) Jiraiya.
  • The agenda for the meeting:
    • We both know that Kei loves her more than anything else in the world, and Ami is fully capable of controlling her reactions beyond Kei's ability to see through. Therefore Ami wanted to distance herself from Kei, either upon hearing that Kei had not intended to return to Mist, or since before then.
    • If the former, it is possible that this was a spur of the moment reaction that she now regrets, and if the latter, it is possible that this decision was made for Kei's benefit because associating with Ami would be somehow deleterious to her. In either case, it is possible that Ami would prefer to mend bridges with Kei if some obstacle were overcome.
    • If such an obstacle were to exist, is there anything Ami suspects that Hazou may be in a position to do to help her remove it?
      • If it does not exist, and Ami simply no longer wishes to be a sister to Kei, then she may feel free to request some other activity that serves her purposes. Whatever the case, this request will of course be scrutinised by Jiraiya, and may yet be denied, but there is no guarantee that he will be able to catch self-serving requests, and thus making one has some positive utility for self-serving!Ami. The fact that self-serving!Ami would still make a request allows sisterly!Ami to make a request without exposing herself to those who she wishes to disguise herself as self-serving!Ami to. In this manner, either hypothetical version of Ami, sisterly or self-serving, should still seek to make a request, so as to best optimise for their respective preferred outcomes.
    • Is there anything else that Ami would like to discuss?
 
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It's probably not viable without modern medical tech, but another fun storage seals inside the body for ninja idea occurred to me. You start by putting your own blood, collected gradually over time, into a small waterproofed storage seal with some special programming. Then you surgically implant the seal, probably against an arterial wall. (With care taken to ensure the waterproof coating isn't a substance that'll be rejected or trigger clotting.) The special programming is for the seal, once activated right before implantation, to pay attention to outside pressure and release a steady stream of the blood inside whenever pressure drops below a safe level, generally because someone is busy bleeding out. It's like an automatic emergency blood transfusion. It'd keep a person alive longer in a trauma situation, and possibly even functional enough to escape or fight back when they otherwise wouldn't be able to.

Bonus points to anyone who can figure out a way to make it work with ninja magic. Maybe we could suggest the idea as 'unfinished, but maybe it has promise for saving ninja in the field, especially when there aren't mednin around' to Sunny.

It'd probably be easier to figure out a way to use storage seals to do blood transfusions with the user's own blood from outside the person as a form of emergency medicine. It wouldn't be automatic, but I think it'd be doable. Back in the day blood transfusions weren't viable because they didn't know about blood types, but being able to store a person's own blood in a seal indefinitely without it going bad is a good way around that problem.
 
When did I do that? I don't recall that and I think I'd probably feel quite bad about having done so if I did. What were the circumstances?

e: That said, I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't assume you know what's going on in my head better than I do regardless.

I got a promise from you @Inferno Vulpix and several other people on discord that they would immediately campaign to talk to Jiraiya about contacting Orchimaru as soon as we got back to Leaf. I was unable to participate for a while do to a suicide attempt and time in the hospital. But since no one decided to act on there promise I updated my belief on there ability to follow through on there precommitments
 
And lose orders of magnitude more points since our mental model of her should be as an enemy.

OK, see this makes no sense to me.

What does us modeling her as an enemy change about the fact that we ask her about her opinion on how to fix the "I'm just a tool for others" problem Keiko has? We would still do it because we - the players - could evaluate whatever Ami said on its own merits. And if she manages to fool all of us, then good for her, she deserves the win. (As unlikely as she is to try to deceive us about this particular problem anyway.)

But more importantly: you said Ami is so good that she has blackmail material on Jiraiya earlier so what are the chances she doesn't know about Keiko's issue? Pretty much zilch so we aren't telling her anything new.

At worst she will tell us this is something we have to fix on our own but it still earns us points because she sees that Hazou cares genuinely for her sister and since Ami cannot do so openly herself she has motivation to use us as proxy to help improve Keiko's lot in life.
 
If we hope to maintain good relations with Ino we might want to table the Ami stuff for the following night.

But we should be proactive and schedule it now.

Remember, these people don't just free up their schedules to do stuff we vote in at the drop of a hat. C'mon! :p
 
Is it time for bad decisions? Yes it is.

[] Proto Plan: The A(m)I Box Experiment
  • Schedule an appointment to speak to Ami.
    • Consult with Jiraiya beforehand so as to minimise the possibility of Bad Things.
    • Do not attempt any manipulations. They will not work.
    • Assume that Ami is fully capable of manipulating you any way she wants. Do not make any agreements with her, and if prompted to do so, respond that you will consider matters and return with an answer before you leave Mist. DO NOT buckle under pressure here. DO NOT be swayed to give a more minor agreement as a concession. NO EXCEPTIONS.
    • Nothing Ami says is evidence that should be immediately updated upon. Merely filed away for later examination. There is no way for you to distinguish between Ami saying something and believing it and Ami saying something to manipulate you. Treat her as a potentially-hostile clone of Mari with Kei's intellect.
    • Constantly remind yourself that the woman in front of you plays at the same level as (or even higher than) Jiraiya.
  • The agenda for the meeting:
    • We both know that Kei loves her more than anything else in the world, and Ami is fully capable of controlling her reactions beyond Kei's ability to see through. Therefore Ami wanted to distance herself from Kei, either upon hearing that Kei had not intended to return to Mist, or since before then.
    • If the former, it is possible that this was a spur of the moment reaction that she now regrets, and if the latter, it is possible that this decision was made for Kei's benefit because associating with Ami would be somehow deleterious to her. In either case, it is possible that Ami would prefer to mend bridges with Kei if some obstacle were overcome.
    • If such an obstacle were to exist, is there anything Ami suspects that Hazou may be in a position to do to help her remove it?
      • If it does not exist, and Ami simply no longer wishes to be a sister to Kei, then she may feel free to request some other activity that serves her purposes. Whatever the case, this request will of course be scrutinised by Jiraiya, and may yet be denied, but there is no guarantee that he will be able to catch self-serving requests, and thus making one has some positive utility for self-serving!Ami. The fact that self-serving!Ami would still make a request allows sisterly!Ami to make a request without exposing herself to those who she wishes to disguise herself as self-serving!Ami to. In this manner, either hypothetical version of Ami, sisterly or self-serving, should still seek to make a request, so as to best optimise for their respective preferred outcomes.
    • Is there anything else that Ami would like to discuss?
Suggestions:

This is metagaming, but we know that Ami doesn't want the other Mori having anything to do with Keiko to keep Keiko safe, so we should meet her away from home somewhere where her family can't overhear. Otherwise her responses will be very limited and probably unhelpful. We could send her a message asking her to come find us or whatever.

We could mention that Leaf has an open ambassador position. If we find out that the problem is being with Keiko without her family getting sucked into it, then that could be a good workaround, either as the actual ambassador or as 'staff'. Or we could try to see about getting her an invitation to Leaf when she wants to visit, but she'd need to handle the Mist end of things.

I'd like to find out what Ami wants for the future of the alliance and the world, and if she's interested in the uplift concept.
 
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