Something to think about - if we're going to fort up, might we want to fake us failing so that people don't try to surround our location again? Also, do we need to report back to the mission office before the event ends, or after? (and if before, could we do it now so as to make it so Karina is no longer our responsibility and we can spend the rest of the event assassinating rival proctors?)
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
-
- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
- Location
- Galicia,Spain
We can concentrate in attacking now ,if our client stays on a space place we can easilly protect(wich might be an overly optimistic asumption).
Maybe leave two of us protecting the client and send keiko or hazou or pangolins to try to "kill" the proctors of other teams.
Maybe leave two of us protecting the client and send keiko or hazou or pangolins to try to "kill" the proctors of other teams.
- Location
- Potato land
@eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail is there a chance of letting us know Karina's plans for the rest of the event now that her stock is gone? Sounds like our plan will depend on this a lot.
Wanting to report back would be one of the possible next steps of our client, we'll have to see what they decide. I'd expect we'd be forbidden to interact with exam participants after turning in our bandanas, though.
Problem is, we have to find them first. Haven't had much luck thus far.
Wanting to report back would be one of the possible next steps of our client, we'll have to see what they decide. I'd expect we'd be forbidden to interact with exam participants after turning in our bandanas, though.
Problem is, we have to find them first. Haven't had much luck thus far.
- Location
- Yes.
Indeed, we'd probably be DQ'd and locked up in the barracks as the proctors would claim that we removed our bandannas, even if they were done under their orders
- Location
- Snakesden
Is the idea to buy the extra stock with clan Goketsu money, or with Karina's recent revenue? I imagine it has to be the latter. But if so, keep in mind that the within-Mist herb market is probably fairly efficient—it seems highly unlikely one could make more than a couple percent a week buying herbs from one Mist merchant and selling them to a different one. (Unless we do the Yakuza tango again, I guess.)
like, 2% profit a week means 100% profit a year (more with compounding, but you also have to spend money on eating and stuff). That is an insane level of profit. And adding 2% to the amount of money we've made doesn't help us much.
On the other hand, changing currency might take some time, and we're scored on how much Mist ryo our client's amassed—that seems like a better focus to me?
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Normally I'd agree, but we're currently in the unusual circumstance of having yakuza-compliant merchants willing to overpay for Karina's stock. If we knew how much the guy overpaid we could work out whether it's better or worse than spending that time exchanging currency.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Fixed, thanks.
She sold all of her stock and received the amount of money you referenced.
...no comment.
That is an excellent point. I was thinking it was only a couple of conversations, but you're right that it was a full day. Or, to say it differently: *cough* I have no idea what you're talking about. 3 XP/day is perfectly reasonable. *cough*
Great to see so many new names contributing ideas and energy. @Roomba @Briefvoice @Cariyaga , since you guys write most of the plans for vote (sorry if I missed anybody @faflec @1234qwerty @Radvic - still not sure of the social/process structure in our group ), any feedback for the rest of us on how to suggest/frame/organize/write ideas to make it easier for a) everyone to decide and b) you incorporate as appropriate?
BTW I think you've done a great job of collecting the group's consensus accurately and want to make that easier for you.
For example, when floating ideas, is it better to be including an explanation of the reason(s) we think an idea is worth considering? I tend not to do that, you're all really smart, but occasionally feel like I made an OK point but didn't convince due to not including the 'insight' as to why. E.g., I thought we might sell out inventory quickly and wanted Granny to prepare and line up a re-supply. My idea got included, which made me happy, but it turned into an early-retirement snafu dialog without accomplishing the goal. That probably worked in our favor as that would make her now suspicious! And no complaints here, I wouldn't enjoy writing and editing plans. I just want to capitalize on this new energy.
BTW I think you've done a great job of collecting the group's consensus accurately and want to make that easier for you.
For example, when floating ideas, is it better to be including an explanation of the reason(s) we think an idea is worth considering? I tend not to do that, you're all really smart, but occasionally feel like I made an OK point but didn't convince due to not including the 'insight' as to why. E.g., I thought we might sell out inventory quickly and wanted Granny to prepare and line up a re-supply. My idea got included, which made me happy, but it turned into an early-retirement snafu dialog without accomplishing the goal. That probably worked in our favor as that would make her now suspicious! And no complaints here, I wouldn't enjoy writing and editing plans. I just want to capitalize on this new energy.
Jello_Raptor
(Confirmed Jelly)
- Location
- Left of Center
So, for slightly longer term musings.
I really want to make our next major project civilian usable storage seals with some additional seal secrecy tech. They're probably going to be an important transitional income source for Goketsu finances and will provide a solid, and plausibly unthreatening way to undermine the political stability of other nations.
So the exact terms would be up for debate but I want to let Goketsu sell the seals in Leaf, and allow the Mist and other non-leaf Yakuza to have a temporary monopoly on local distribution of seals.
The goal is to normalize the usage of these seals, get established parties to actually manage local sales, and generally allow for their wide distribution. This should help provide a quick income for the Goketsu clan, as well Yakuza based "patent protection" for a limited period. We also get to sneakily boost everyone else's economies, reducing the pressure on Leaf's own growth. The fun part is that the boost undermines the governments of the other nations by making their civilians more capable without boosting the capabilities of their ninja. Also, Leaf will be able to sell more luxury items and surplus food.
Here's a quick draft of an agreement:
Edit: The seal secrecy tech basically amounts to dipping sealing paper in non-chakra ink, letting it dry, then writing the seal in a chakra infused version of the same ink. Alternately just scribe seals with Nobby water.
[] Partial Action Plan : Pyramidal Scheme
For use after this event ends. I want to make sure we run the broad idea past Jiraiya early, so that he can get to it at his leisure and give us commentary. Also I think he finds our 'creativity' amusing, so I suspect he'll enjoy reading the idea as a break.
I really want to make our next major project civilian usable storage seals with some additional seal secrecy tech. They're probably going to be an important transitional income source for Goketsu finances and will provide a solid, and plausibly unthreatening way to undermine the political stability of other nations.
So the exact terms would be up for debate but I want to let Goketsu sell the seals in Leaf, and allow the Mist and other non-leaf Yakuza to have a temporary monopoly on local distribution of seals.
The goal is to normalize the usage of these seals, get established parties to actually manage local sales, and generally allow for their wide distribution. This should help provide a quick income for the Goketsu clan, as well Yakuza based "patent protection" for a limited period. We also get to sneakily boost everyone else's economies, reducing the pressure on Leaf's own growth. The fun part is that the boost undermines the governments of the other nations by making their civilians more capable without boosting the capabilities of their ninja. Also, Leaf will be able to sell more luxury items and surplus food.
Here's a quick draft of an agreement:
- We offer the Mist a 2-4 year agreement that we will not distribute storage seals in Mist to any other parties, in return for a few things.
- We want to make sure they have an incentive to distribute these seals, and a temporary monopoly is a great way for them to get cash. It's a powerful incentive.
- They must sell at least 1/2 of the seals to independent parties, as individual units. In particular making them available at a price that merchants, businesses, and other individuals can afford them.
- Yes, this is mostly an honor system clause, but it emphasizes we want to get these into the hands of people directly. And makes it a lot less threatening for any authorities.
- For the remainder, they are free to use them as they wish. Though we encourage renting some of the remainder or providing storage as a service.
- Again, our goal here is to help normalize the civvy usable scrolls. Making them rentable gives people who couldn't buy them access to them, even if it's a bit limited.
- The yakuza should not punish those who purchased seals directly from them and attempt to resell them in Mist.
- Again threats don't make for great normalization, and the yakuza already got their cut once.
- The Yakuza should deliver a warning to anyone importing these seals into Mist for resale or producing similar products of their own, before harming them in retribution. This warning should come with an option for the importer or sealsmith to pay restitution for any seals sold before the warning was delivered.
- We need the yaks to be able to save face, and keep a hold on their monopoly, but we also want to minimize harm to standard commerce.
- Requiring them to punish other creators of similar seals gives us back door patent protection as long as the competing seal smith isn't A rank or above.
- We also don't want to give them to pick fights they can't win.
- They must not hinder or punish the use of these seals, and only respond to their resale.
- At the end of their monopoly period, the Yakuza must cease punishing import and resale of these seals. They can choose to interact with local producers of similar seals however they wish.
- So we don't much care about how they deal with local producers. If they want to cultivate other sources of civilian usable seals that's great, we have more unwitting minions helping us with uplift. If they want to suppress them, then we get a longer "patent" term.
- Prices and quantities of storage seals can be negotiated independent of this agreement, which only provides for the local monopoly and rules on resealed.
- We have limited time, and we definitely want some flexibility as our needs change.
- Not to mention the Yakuza will want this too. Say their Kage bans these seals, they can just choose not to buy.
- If they choose, the Mist Yakuza can make introduce the Yakuza of other nations to us in order to sign a materially similar deal. If they do, 5% of the revenue of any sales with the inducted party, will be applied as a discount to future purchases. In addition 2% of the sales of any further parties their inductee introduces will also be applied as a discount.
- Pyramid scheme is a go. This gives Mist and other Yakuza groups a strong incentive to seek out and introduce us to the yakuza of other nations, and generally helps us get deeper ties all over the place.
- The additional revenue is nice, but we're basically building up the start of a merchant/spy network.
Edit: The seal secrecy tech basically amounts to dipping sealing paper in non-chakra ink, letting it dry, then writing the seal in a chakra infused version of the same ink. Alternately just scribe seals with Nobby water.
[] Partial Action Plan : Pyramidal Scheme
For use after this event ends. I want to make sure we run the broad idea past Jiraiya early, so that he can get to it at his leisure and give us commentary. Also I think he finds our 'creativity' amusing, so I suspect he'll enjoy reading the idea as a break.
- Drop a description of the above idea into a letter to Jiraiya. Mark it with the following:
- #NotUrgent
- #ForEyesOnly
- #ReadInSecureLocation
- #JustHazouIdeas
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I suggest that we spend some time thinking about ways this could go wrong (or be abused by a malicious party) and how to mitigate damage that arises from such. We don't want Shikaku going off at us again.
- Location
- Yes.
OK, so does this mean that we have to go to some banking institution to exchange currency? And will this count as a "trade" for the sake of the Exams (i.e., will we get the 300k worth of points from "selling" foreign currency/gold for Mist ryo)?
Stupid box proliferation. Putting seals in civilian hand increases the number of people handling the seals, which increases the number of maniacs and idiots handling the seals. Since you can't tell what is in a storage seal at a glance, suicide bombers gain an extremely effective tool.
Edit: Also, civilians might be seen as more disposable than ninja, so we don't just have to worry about the crazies.
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Heh, heh, heh.
Steal it.
She knows what the other teams are trading, and has a financial incentive to continue. Convince her to spill the beans and then go acquire some more goods to trade.
Jello_Raptor
(Confirmed Jelly)
- Location
- Left of Center
Yup, which is why the plan is "tell Jiraiya about the idea" not do it. I just want to get it to a thing we have actually though about in game, rather than just in the thread.
Edit:
I'm not sure the cost benefit works out in our favor. We have a strong position now, and we risk losing that. If our proctor still hates us, this is the perfect chance to get their pile of money while fucking us over.
Unrelatedly, I'm pretty chuffed my plan for stacking the deck in our favor just happened. Other parties saw it as valuable too, and just did it.
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@eaglejarl, @Velorien, @OliWhail - questions about the event given our situation here...
1. What are the end conditions for a successful completion of our mission? Just have the proctor 'survive' for five days, or return her to the mission office at some point before the five days are up?
2. If the latter, is there a specific window in which we are allowed to do it (say at any point on day 5, or the second half of that day, etc.) or could we bring her back and absolve ourselves of our responsibility for her at any time.
3. If the latter of the second question, are we finished with the event and unable to interfere further, or are we still in and able to focus on either giving allied teams assistance or assassination of proctors for rival teams?
The latter path could be interesting if allowed, as it opens up different strategies - some teams may cash in early in order to focus on assassination (though the proctor has to be convinced, since they've got a monetary motivation to keep going), versus other teams that want to keep going to maximize their point gains. Edit - also, actual escort missions can finish early, so it might add to the realism of this being a simulated mission.
1. What are the end conditions for a successful completion of our mission? Just have the proctor 'survive' for five days, or return her to the mission office at some point before the five days are up?
2. If the latter, is there a specific window in which we are allowed to do it (say at any point on day 5, or the second half of that day, etc.) or could we bring her back and absolve ourselves of our responsibility for her at any time.
3. If the latter of the second question, are we finished with the event and unable to interfere further, or are we still in and able to focus on either giving allied teams assistance or assassination of proctors for rival teams?
The latter path could be interesting if allowed, as it opens up different strategies - some teams may cash in early in order to focus on assassination (though the proctor has to be convinced, since they've got a monetary motivation to keep going), versus other teams that want to keep going to maximize their point gains. Edit - also, actual escort missions can finish early, so it might add to the realism of this being a simulated mission.
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- Location
- Yes.
@eaglejarl: "You don't know."
- Location
- Potato land
It's a bit awkward for me to talk about this, as I've only ever written two plans for this quest. But since you tagged me, I'll bite.
Generally speaking, I'd like to encourage everyone to take existing plans and edit them to their own preference. It's a more healthy process that doesn't put too much pressure on the plan author.
With that said, a good suggestion in my opinion should go through a basic sanity check. Think about what you want the team to do and visualize it in steps, see if you notice any problems. A lot of clever-seeming ideas have some kind of snag that often isn't so easy to resolve. I know @Kurkistan is going to admonish me for being unreasonable, but I honestly found myself doing a lot of "Can this even work?" thinking while reading suggestions.
If you're not sure if your idea is viable, just post it in the thread, you'll get feedback one way or another. MfD is pretty dense and it's hard to keep track of all the important contextual information, but the optimizer cabal is pretty friendly and won't bite even if your plan is to assassinate the Mizukage and blame it on Orochimaru.
- Location
- Under a Rock
I don't think we need more points. The winners of the last event got 120 points? We just got 500 each. Maybe the gold and non mist Ryo aren't worth points. Then we got only 300, I think we will live. Our only concern is keeping the client alive. And knocking out teams we think are scary.
If we keep the client alive, we don't even need to show up to the other events. Is there some super well guarded luxury hotel? Some place guarded by mist ANBU? We can park Karina there, check in occasionally, and spend the rest of the event making Team Trap sorry they ever laid eyes on team Goketsu.
If we keep the client alive, we don't even need to show up to the other events. Is there some super well guarded luxury hotel? Some place guarded by mist ANBU? We can park Karina there, check in occasionally, and spend the rest of the event making Team Trap sorry they ever laid eyes on team Goketsu.
What is our proctor thinking? What are they planning? They are the single greatest threat to us right now, and we should anticipate their agency.
To start, let's assume two potential proctors: Fair Proctor and Malicious Proctor.
Fair Proctor won't move against us if they think we've been acting within the rules, but they must be considering the idea that we haven't. What if we bribed that shopkeep? Is that not giving her money indirectly? It looks like the shopkeep might have been threatened. Did we do that? Fair Proctor may decide to press for DQ given the suspicious encounter today, in which case we have to be able to defend ourselves.
Malicious Proctor is looking to screw us over any way she can, and now that we've gotten a ton of points she's getting desperate. She will certainly argue that we somehow broke the rules, or even pop her own henge and say a kunai hit her when we weren't paying attention.
To start, let's assume two potential proctors: Fair Proctor and Malicious Proctor.
Fair Proctor won't move against us if they think we've been acting within the rules, but they must be considering the idea that we haven't. What if we bribed that shopkeep? Is that not giving her money indirectly? It looks like the shopkeep might have been threatened. Did we do that? Fair Proctor may decide to press for DQ given the suspicious encounter today, in which case we have to be able to defend ourselves.
Malicious Proctor is looking to screw us over any way she can, and now that we've gotten a ton of points she's getting desperate. She will certainly argue that we somehow broke the rules, or even pop her own henge and say a kunai hit her when we weren't paying attention.
- Location
- Yes.
We should kill the proctor, that way they can't press for DQ, or break their Henge!
I am confused where you think the answers to these questions are coming from. We got the full text of the instructions we were given and no questions were allowed. If you want information beyond that, who is Hazou supposed to be asking for it? You know Granny will just laugh and not say shit.
- Location
- Somewhere over the rainbow
How do you kill someone without breaking their henge?
- Location
- Yes.
Teach them the perma-Henge!
Vecht
Self-Requested Ban
- Location
- Snarksville, Snarkland
Haven't been able to keep up with discussion in-depth, but surely it merits taking time to get our client to transfer all funds to Mist ryo, just to head off any potential issues. We're talking a possible difference of 200-300 points if they don't accept other money. This is easily the action with the highest ROI available to us at present, and IMO should be our immediate next priority, followed by turtling til' the event is over. Let's not overreach and risk losing everything.
- Location
- Under a Rock
Maximally Malicious proctor thankfully has some evidence against it. Most proctors malicious enough to pop their own henge would have simply turned the deal down, citing a vague unease. Or they would have done so while Team Trap was attacking.
But your broader point is correct. Karina is now our only failure point. She needs to be kept in the dark, prevented from digging into the suspicious deal until the end of the event. Actually, we could keep her literally in the dark. -20 points means nothing now, we could just insist she stay in a Kagome approved hole in the ground.
This might run afoul of the local merchant councils, who are there to prevent ninja from driving civilians out of the market, and are quite good at it. This could be fixed by giving the monopoly to the merchant council, instead of to the Yakuza. The merchant councils already have mechanisms for punishing defectors, so they will be perfectly capable of enforcing their monopoly.
EDIT: I am behind you 100% on this being our next big thing. I also agree with whoever it was that said we really, really, need to think carefully before just releasing this into the world.
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