a list of technical truths in faerie-speak in an attempt to avoid him putting together that we're attempting to research weapons
But it's not a bunch of technical half truths? It's a factual accounting of what actually happened? It doesn't matter what we intend or dream about doing. We intend to do multiple things. We've failed miserably at almost all of it. What actually matters is the actions we took and what we actually did. Itachi already knows Hazo plans to Uplift the world, having already refused to defect to Akatsuki, etc. Itachi finding out Hazo's not a fan of Akasuki and doesn't believe in their goals is already known. Hazo not acting toward the best interest of Akatsuki every waking hour should be priced in.

Hazo kept his word and didn't break the deal here. Itachi has no reason to be upset and go nuclear.

Hazou rolls his mediocre Deceit stat and we lose
And Hazo can honestly say "that's a clan secret, or I was ordered not to tell you, so I won't, even on pain of death, but if I were to tell you about it, it would not reveal we were doing dimensionalism seal research." And since Itachi has a cheating eyeball, he can see we're being 100% honest. You can know that someone is holding info from you, and know it's not important toward finding out if they broke promise X.


IMO no it's not a reasonable gamble because the stakes are too high.
"We're the clan of guts, my dear"
 
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What actually matters is the actions we took and what actually happened.
Let me put it this way: If I were Itachi, I'd take Hazō intending (explicitly, in the present, not sometime or as a pipe dream) to research weapons to kill Akatsuki as a threat. We have shown ourselves to be capable of revolutionizing warfare, and if I were Itachi I wouldn't want Hazō to revolutionize it against Akatsuki.
 
But it's not a bunch of technical half truths? It's a factual accounting of what actually happened? It doesn't matter what we intend or dream about doing. We intend to do multiple things. We've failed miserably at almost all of it. What actually matters is the actions we took and what actually happened.

You are literally illustrating how to accomplish a deception via lying by omission. Deception is far more robust than whether or not you are technically telling the truth or some portion of it, the intent does in fact matter.

This isn't going to fly lol.
 
You are literally illustrating how to accomplish a deception via lying by omission. Deception is far more robust than whether or not you are technically telling the truth or some portion of it, the intent does in fact matter.
No. We can be meta-honest. We can truthfully tell Itachi that we're hiding something but that thing is not in scope.


I: What is that.
H: It's a clan secret.
I: You're hiding something from me.
H: Yes, yes I am.
I: Is it important to what we're looking at. (dimensionalism)
H: No. It's not.
I: Okay. Cool (Because I have cheating eyeballs, I can confidently take Hazo at his word)




Hazo never lies or even deceives once. We're wearing the secret on our sleeve. It's known by both parties we're holding information here, and neither is deceived by that.


Let me put it this way: If I were Itachi, I'd take Hazō intending (explicitly, in the present, not sometime or as a pipe dream) to research weapons to kill Akatsuki as a threat.
But this isn't new or out of the ordinary. Hazo researches weapons all the time. Itachi already knows that. The weapons have killed literal Dragons in front of him. Finding out Hazo often spends his free time researching weapons is already known. If Itachi was all that worried, he would have nabbed him long ago.
 
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No. We can be meta-honest. We can truthfully tell Itachi that we're hiding something but that thing is not in scope.


I: What is that.
H: It's a clan secret.
I: You're hiding something from me.
H: Yes, yes I am.
I: Is it important to what we're looking at. (dimensionalism)
H: No. It's not.
I: Okay. Cool (Because I have cheating eyeballs, I can confidently take Hazo at his word)




Hazo never lies or even deceives once. We're wearing the secret on our sleeve. It's known by both parties we're holding information here, and neither is deceived by that.
I don't think that's how it worked out the last time Akatsuki came to ask for Leaf secrets.
 
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I: What is that.
H: It's a clan secret.
I: You're hiding something from me.
H: Yes, yes I am.
I: Is it important to what we're looking at. (dimensionalism)
H: No. It's not.
I: Okay. Cool (Because I have cheating eyeballs, I can confidently take Hazo at his word)
I: Okay. Cool. I'm just gonna yoink it for Akatsuki anyway.

I get that it's not 100% guaranteed to go like this, but I'm not willing to risk runecrafting on this.
 
Hidan is very, very different than Itachi. Even Akatsuki members were surprised by Hidan's actions. Itachi has been shown to be reasonable in the past.
Hidan was impulsive, but Kakuzu didn't seem to back down either when he asked the previous Hokage what the heck he was hiding. It might have been a bluff, but it's not obvious to me that Akatsuki doesn't feel it is within their purview to investigate suspicious secrets.
 
I: Okay. Cool. I'm just gonna yoink it for Akatsuki anyway.


Sure. But than Itachi's explicitly breaking his word. Itachi has been shown to take his word seriously. Itachi has honor. That's what we're gambling on. Yes, Itachi can take all our stuff yadda, yadda, but he's said he wouldn't and hasn't in the past. Why would he now?



Kakuzu didn't seem to back down either when he asked the previous Hokage what the heck he was hiding.
But that's different. You back your comrades even if they do something stupid and try to bail them out. That's what being on a team means.


Yup. I'd say Itachi knows we're dangerous enough that he'll want to know what research had to be done on a research mission.
But he's shown no inclination to do so in the past, and why would he suddently go around breaking into clan secrets now? Hazo didn't break his word, and followed through with what Itachi asked of him. it's possible, but it doesn't make sense. If Itachi wanted tot steal Hazo's research weapons, he would have done so ohhh, a few months back, when he had all the leverage and stole from Leaf at kunai point.

If being technically correct about tangential issues mattered
But it's not tangential! It's the main thing! The question is whether or not Hazo did dimensionalism research! He didn't! That was the only thing Itachi asked and is worried about! He literally didn't do the thing!
 
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But it's not! The question is whether or not Hazo did dimensionalism research! He didn't!
Only on the face of it. The question is whether we're fucking around in a way Itachi and/or Akatsuki would care about. If it really was just dimensionalism then Itachi would have done something other than yoink everything we had that he thought was vaguely related.
 
Sure. But than Itachi's is explicitly breaking his word. Itachi has been shown to take his word seriously. Itachi has honor. That's what we're gambling on. Itachi can just take all our stuff yadda, yadda, but he said he wouldn't. Why would he now?
As I said, I don't like the gamble.

But he's shown no inclination to do so in the past, and why would he suddently go around breaking clan secrets now? Because Hazo didn't break his word, and followed along with Itachi asked him? it's possible, but it doesn't make sense. If Itachi wanted tot steal Hazo's research weapons, he would have done so ohhh, a few months back, when he had all the leverage and stole from Leaf at kunai point.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't he go through our seal notes when he took dimensionalism stuff?

But it's not! The question is whether or not Hazo did dimensionalism research! He didn't!
OK, I'd agree that that's the main question, but I'm saying that talking to Itachi is the risk (because might force us to reveal our secrets).
 
Hidan was impulsive, but Kakuzu didn't seem to back down either when he asked the previous Hokage what the heck he was hiding. It might have been a bluff, but it's not obvious to me that Akatsuki doesn't feel it is within their purview to investigate suspicious secrets.
Kakuzu may have let hidan pressure asuma at first. but when asuma held firm about it being important secrets, kakuzu definitely looked like he was backing down.
 
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Only on the face of it. The question is whether we're fucking around in a way Itachi and/or Akatsuki would care about. If it really was just dimensionalism then Itachi would have done something other than yoink everything we had that he thought was vaguely related.
Itachi literally seconds ago:
"I see. You will require his immediate return so that I may confirm that he has produced no new work on dimensionalism."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't he go through our seal notes when he took dimensionalism stuff?

If Itachi thought like how y'all think he would act, Itachi would have stolen everything, everything of Hazo's and not just what he thought was vaguely related. He would have chopped off Hazo's hands so he couldn't do seal research ever again! Itachi could have and has had the ability to do any number of things to stem Hazo forever! Multiple times!


As I said, I don't like the gamble.
I'm not saying its not a gamble. But I like our odds. We're not lying, we have the moral high ground, and Itachi has shown in the past to keep his word.
 
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More proposed stunts for Noburi
@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped

The following is a transcription of several medical-focused VD stunts that were floated on Discord as possible things Noburi could be learning under Tsunade.

Breath of Life

Noburi floods the chakra system of a recently clinically dead (but not brain dead) ninja with a large amount of chakra. Kickstarting their heart and lungs. The patient must have been dead for no more that VD AB minutes. This is enough for Noburi or another mednin to make yet another roll to attempt to stabilize the patient. QMs discretion on what that roll is.

Minimum requirements to learn: VD 50, Mednin 50, Medknow 50

Vampiric Healing

Using his advanced knowledge of medical ninjutsu, medical knowledge and Vampiric Dew Noburi can use tiny amounts of chakra drain and infusion to help wound healing. He can now roll VD level in addition to Mednin and Medknow to treat injuries. On success of both VD and Medknow vs wound TN heal 4x the Mednin shifts instead of 2x.

Minimum requirements to learn: VD 40, Mednin 40, Medknow 40

Medical Vampirism

Using his advanced knowledge of the human chakra system Noburi has learned to drain more effectively. On the Resolve vs VD level roll to drain chakra, Noburi may now also roll Mednin vs Resolve, on success he drains 2x as much chakra as he would otherwise. (VD level + difference between the two rolls) The amount of drain per round using this technique is capped at 4*VD level

Minimum requirements to learn: VD 30, Mednin 30, Medknow 30

Vampiric Touch

Using his advanced understanding of medical techniques and the Vampiric Dew Noburi can project medical chakra through water to a limited extent.

He can project chakra scalpels from the WW and use it to heal / perform surgery etc. Rolls are capped at min [WW, Mednin].

Total range of mednin chakra projection is VD AB meters

Minimum requirements to learn: VD 40, Mednin 40, Medknow 40

Vampiric Assistance

By selectively draining or filling chakra in different areas (cells?), Noburi is able to improve the efficacy and precision of treatments. He receives +Mednin AB to mednin rolls while actively using the VD.

Minimum requirements to learn: VD 20, Mednin 20, Medknow 20

Vampiric Sensing

Noburi can gain an understanding of ninja biology rivaled only by fellow sensor-nin as he has studied and identified every teeny part of a body through internal (on the patient) VD use. Noburi gains +AB to Medknow for rolls on any species that he has mapped out with the Vampiric Dew.

Minimum requirements to learn: VD 20, Mednin 20, Medknow 20

Vampiric Disruption

Using his knowledge of chakra coils and their behavior, Noburi disrupts his enemies chakra systems using an injection of medical chakra mid combat.

Some combination the following occurs: active ninjutsu/genjutsu can't be maintained and disappate, and/or the enemy can't cast nin/genjutsu or chakra boost for the next Round.

This requires he inflict minimum one stress with medical chakra active.

Minimum requirements to learn: VD 50, Mednin 50, Medknow 50

Vampiric Regeneration

By carefully flooding the patient's cells with medical chakra, Noburi can induce gentle regeneration for recent injuries. Generating additional shifts to reduce wound TNs and total shifts, only applies if medical treatment is available <4 hours post injury.

Roll VD level vs Wound TN and add those to the shifts generated by rolling Mednin vs Wound TN.

EDIT: some others too
@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped

We're proposing the good shit from Tsunade right? I guess more generally it's to investigate Vampiric Dew but I'll go ahead and suggest some cool things she may have passed along anyways.

Getting that Chakra-Scalpel-through-Water-Whip tech would be cool since we didn't end up getting it from Oro.

Here are some others in a similar vein:
Paralyzing Palm
Pre-reqs: MedNin 40, MedKnow 40

The user floods a target with specialized medical chakra designed to restrict muscle movement. Tsunade originally invented this one to help restrain flailing patients, but found it was quite effective on the battlefield as well.

Medical use: User makes physical contact with target. Roll (User's MedNin - Target's Physique) against a TN of 0 to paralyze the target for one minute. The user can target specific limbs or more generally. Failing this roll can result in a myriad of problems, including failing to take effect at all, or accidentally paralyzing the patient's heart. Successfully paralyzing limbs can make operating on the patient easier (at QM discretion.) The user can roll against increasingly large TNs to move the paralyzation time up the timeladder. (TN 10 for 10 minutes, TN 20 for 30 minutes, TN 30 for 1 hour, etc.)

Example: Noburi wants to stabilize a jonin delirious from blood loss, so he needs them to stop swinging at him and then drain them unconscious.
48 (Noburi's MedNin) - 44 (Jonin's Physique) = 4.
Noburi successfully paralyzes the target and then drains them unconscious.
TSUNADE: "Close call there. Work on your medicine, dumbass!"

Combat use: This technique is less effective in the midst of a fight due to the fast motion and difficulty of getting a clean application. However, it can still cause muscle spasms even with a glancing blow. First, the user must use a Supplemental to activate Paralyzing Palm. Next, the user must successfully land a Taijutsu attack (or otherwise make physical contact with the target.) After resolving the Taijutsu roll, if the attack lands successfully, roll User's Mednin vs. Target's Physique. For every shift of success, the target's Physical stats are decreased by 2 for one minute. This jutsu is reflexive and can be used on a Counterattack if Taijutsu is declared as the defending skill.

The effect can be cleared faster by rolling MedNin against the original MedNin roll.

Example: Kabuto successfully strikes Arikada, and uses Paralyzing palm.
Kabuto (MedNin) = 60 + 3 (dice) = 63
Arikada (Physique) = ??? + ? + 6 (dice) = 47
63 - 47 = 6 shifts. Arikada's physical skills are decreased by 12 for one minute.

Paralyzing Pool
Pre-reqs: Paralyzing Palm, VD 40

After studying his bloodline abilities, Tsunade has successfully developed a way for Noburi to utilize Paralyzing Palm through the VD. However, it is weaker, and less effective the further the target is from Noburi. These shortcomings will have to be improved by Noburi himself in time.

When an enemy is touching a water source connected to Noburi (including ninjutsu such as Water Whip, Great Lake Formation, etc.), Noburi may use a Reflexive supplemental to cast Paralyzing Pool (up to once per turn). Roll [MIN (Medical Ninjutsu, Vampiric Dew)] vs. target Physique. For every shift of success, the target's physical skills are decreased by 1 for one minute.

Noburi's roll is decreased by 5 if in melee range but not in physical contact. Noburi's roll is decreased by 10 if the target is in the same zone but not in physical contact. For the purposes of Water Whip, Noburi is considered to be in physical contact if he is close enough for enemies to counterattack him, but if using WW without risk of counterattack, recevies the -5 malus.

Example: Noburi casts Great Lake Formation, and immediately uses a reflexive Supplemental to use Paralyzing Pool on Hazou. Hazou is in melee with Noburi but Noburi did not make physical contact.
Noburi: Minimum of VD and MedNin is MedNin.
Noburi: 48 (MedNin) + 0 (dice) - 5 (in melee but no physical contact.) = 43
Hazou: 37 (Physique) + 3 (dice) = 40
43 - 40 = 1 shift. Hazou's physical skills are decreased by 1 for one minute.
TSUNADE: "Is that all you've got? Work on your medicine, dumbass!"

Purified Rebirth
Pre-reqs: MedNin 40, MedKnow 40, CR 40

A less impressive form of Tsunade's Mitochondrial Healing Technique and about as expensive. Impractical for most medics due to the high chakra cost associated with the technique, as most people don't have a forehead seal full of chakra or a giant barrel full of it on their back.

Up to once per turn, the user spends a Supplemental Action to clear away accrued Physical Stress by flooding their system with medical chakra, aiming for quantity over quality to brute force healing quickly and doing their best to direct the flood to damaged areas. Roll MedNin vs. a fixed TN. The TN is equal to (20 * # of stress boxes the user wants to heal.) The price of the technique is 200 CP per stress box healed, but as this is an internal effect, it is not triple cost for Noburi. Failing the roll heals nothing and costs the full price of chakra.

Example: Noburi is pretty roughed up in his training with Tsunade, having taken 3 stress already even with her holding back. He decides to use a Supplemental action to heal up before she 'accidentally' breaks something.
Noburi decides to heal 2 stress boxes.
Noburi: 48 (MedNin) - 6 (dice) = 42
Noburi successfully heals 2 stress boxes, for the price of 400 CP, a fifth of his total reserves.
TSUNADE: "Tch. If you improved your medicine, you could've healed yourself completely."

Blazing Ram
Pre-reqs: MedNin 40, MedKnow 40

Once this stunt is purchased, it is always available to use. The user increases the output of muscles and chakra coils by forcing them to work harder with medical chakra. You may increase your Chakra Boost cap by up to (MedNin AB), paying 5 CP per point as usual. If you choose to do so for that round, you take one physical stress.

Blazing Dew
Pre-reqs: Blazing Ram, VD 40

Once this stunt is purchased, it is always available to use. The user forces their chakra system into overdrive. When draining with Vampiric Dew, Noburi can double the amount of chakra drained from the target, but he takes one physical stress if he does so. Noburi must choose to use this before knowing the outcome of the VD roll.

Tenketsu Shredder
Pre-reqs: MedNin 40, MedKnow 50

Tsunade invented this one for more easily detaining enemy forces, but it sees its use in a fight as well.

First the user must spend a Supplemental to activate Tenketsu Shredder. Next, they must make a successful Taijutsu attack against their target (or otherwise make physical contact.) Upon a successful Taijutsu roll, the target loses CP equal to (shifts of stress inflicted x 10) immediately, and again at the start of each of the target's turns.

Example: Kabuto successfully strikes Arikada, inflicting Tenketsu shredder on Arikada.
Kabuto (Taijutsu) = ??? + ? + ? + 0 (dice) = 83
Arikada (Athletics) = ??? + ? + ? + 3 (dice) = 80
Kabuto deals (1 + 3 =) 4 shifts of stress to Arikada, filling up his stress track and inflicting a mild consequence.
Tenketsu shredder activates, immediately taking away 40 chakra from Arikada.

At the start of Arikada's turn, he loses another 40 chakra.

Tenketsu Leech Strike
Pre-reqs: Tenketsu Shredder, VD 50

Tsunade managed to get the Tenketsu Shredder technique working for Noburi through Water Whip. First, Noburi must use a Supplemental to activate Tenketsu Leech Strike. Upon a successful Water Whip attack, the target loses CP equal to (shifts of stress inflicted x 10) immediately, and again at the start of each of the target's turns.

Example: Noburi is brawling with the Neck Ninja.
Noburi (Water Whip) = 50 + 9 (RRB) + 7 (HM) + 8 (Boost) + 9 (dice) = 83
Kishigami (Melee Weapons) = ??? + ?? + ? - 6 (dice) = 75
Noburi deals 3 shifts of stress. Kishigami loses 30 CP.

At the start of Kishigami's next turn, he loses an additional 30 CP.
 
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Itachi already knows that we're working on 3D sealing for the Great Rune. We brought in every sealmaster in leaf to consult, and they all blabed to their clans/friends. Someone(Tsunade?) mentioned that anyone with a spy network knows what we're trying, but might not take it seriously.

We turned down Itachi's recruitment on the grounds that we needed to 100% focus on the Great Rune.

If we roll up to Itachi like "Hi, I haven't done dimensionalism, I've been to busy with a different giant secret that I refuse to tell you.", he already knows the big thing we're working on is 3D sealing.

He'll figure it out instantly.
 
He'll figure it out instantly.
And? We're a seal researcher doing seal research. It's what we do.

Itachi: Is this related to dimensionalism
Hazo: No
Itachi: Okay, tell me about it.
Hazo: That's an actual clan secret.
Itachi: So?
Hazo: That part wasn't part of the deal. The "Don't do dimensionalism research" deal is not an agreement to have an Akatsuki browse through all of Leaf's clan secrets every couple few months whenever Akatsuki wants to. Wouldn't you agree?
Itachi: [Does he stick with his honor or steal anyway? Find out next chapter in MFD!]
 
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And? We're a seal researcher doing seal research. It's what we do.

I: Is this related to dimensionalism
H: No
I: Okay, tell me about it.
H: That's an actual clan secret.
I: So?
H: That part wasn't part of the deal. The "Don't do dimensionalism research" deal is not an agreement to have an Akatsuki browse through all of Leaf's clan secrets every couple few months whenever Akatsuki wants to. Wouldn't you agree?
I: [Does he stick with his honor or steal anyway? Find out next chapter in MFD!]
The next chapter:
"Itachi Steals Hazou's Stuff Again"
 
And? We're a seal researcher doing seal research. It's what we do.

I: Is this related to dimensionalism
H: No
I: Okay, tell me about it.
H: That's an actual clan secret.
I: So?
H: That part wasn't part of the deal. The "Don't do dimensionalism research" deal is not an agreement to have an Akatsuki browse through all of Leaf's clan secrets every couple few months whenever Akatsuki wants to. Wouldn't you agree?
I: [Does he stick with his honor or steal anyway? Find out next chapter in MFD!]
I: *turns to Kagome* Is he working on dimensionalism?

K: Of course not! He's not researching dimensionalism or a way to kill all you stinkers at all! He's definitely not doing anything related to runecrafting either!

I: ...

H: *sigh*

I: Wow.
 
I: *turns to Kagome* Is he working on dimensionalism?

K: Of course not! He's not researching dimensionalism or a way to kill all you stinkers at all! He's definitely not doing anything related to runecrafting either!
Kagmone is still on the research trip. Just because you randomly pop in here every once in a while is no reason to drop everything we're doing around here in Leaf, you know?
 
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