- Location
- Can’t say. I know my momentum.
Orochimaru says these guys (and Itachi in particular) are paranoid. This is in a society where paranoia-by-our-standards is the norm. He will be suspicious.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- Tags
- naruto rational rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
Itachi might not even conceive of any possibilities hazou could oppose akatsuki aside from dimensionalism. And therefore not ask the general question. He considered that hazou was arrogant about his sealing. he probably doesn't think hazou would be able to crack 3D sealing. Trying to defeat akatsuki in combat is such an out there idea that tsunade thought naruto was crazy (or had some similar reaction) for mentioning it. so he might not consider that hazou would try to use weapons of all things to kill akatsuki, especially if he doesn't know about runes.
Letter broad strokes:
I'm liking the letter idea. It's a costless gamble. And could lead to maybe some great returns.
Here's an example of something that shouldn't be taken too seriously but is the broad strokes.
To Itachi,
I'd love to comply and come back and demonstrate that I haven't broken the ban on dimensionalism. (That was the agreement, was it not? If not, please tell me the exact agreement, so I can more readily comply with any and all evidence you'll need)
It's a real busy research trip, so the rest of my company will continue without me. (Can't have Leaf Operations ground to a halt whenever you decide to check up on me, can we?)
I'd like some promises and rules on how you're gonna determine whether or not I've been doing dimensionalism research. I do a lot of seal research, and the agreement didn't mean Akasuki gets to read through the entirety of Goketsu's clan secrets every few months to check in on if "I'm complying" or not, correct?
You have a cheating eyeball that can tell if I'm lying to you or not. (Mari and others can attest to what a terrible liar I am.)
This lets me say, truthfully, this is a clan secret, this has nothing to do with dimensionalism, this can't (yet) harm you, and for you to see I'm telling the truth. (I will only be able to say (yet) as I come up with lots of crazy ideas from simple things! Skywalkers! Skyslicers being another! You saw how it killed those dragons. Basic seals that turn out later to be crazy dangerous! Otherwise I could be lying! I wouldn't want to do that!
In those cases where I'm being truthful, do you promise not to delve deeper? I know what your crazy eyes can do! It's impossible for you to read something and it to not immediately leak!
I have a lot of clan secrets and do a lot of mind numbingly terrifying seal research. You have to remember a lot of it is dangerous and can be perceived as a threat to people's interests. (Including your own.) Can you promise not to freak out if I hint or say I'm looking at some crazy cool seal research theory or ideas and not tell you what it is or what I've discovered? And for you to be okay with that?
If I can say these three things: I haven't broken the ban on dimensionalism. I've haven't researched anything that can very directly threaten your interest (yet, who know what I could accidentally think up? Or put together? It's not my fault okay? I was born this way. Blame the gods.) and it's a clan secret outside of the scope of our agreement meaning I won't be sharing the details with you. Would that be acceptable with you?
Hearts and kisses,
The Mad Clan Lord.
Hazo
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- Location
- Can’t say. I know my momentum.
Yeah, might. Come on. If it were you, wouldn't you ask the crazily-creative sealmaster if he was researching anti-Akatsuki weapons?
It's what the letters for. We get to see where his head is at. Might is good enough to send the letter. Is he's solely focused on dimensionalism or other things as well? Then we'll go from there.
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Noumero
Omit Needless Words
Nah, I'm just admiring the audacity. I'd previously complained that Itachi was bullshitting about the Leaf/Rain agreement regarding forbidding Leaf from researching dimensionalism, saying it was a Hazou/Akatsuki agreement instead. But it wasn't even that! Just one-sided barbaric threats.
The nerve to then come in and claim it was some sort of civilized contract.
- Location
- Can’t say. I know my momentum.
This could be a good starting point. Thanks. I'm still 100% sure that we are not going to Leaf even if he promises what we want.
- Location
- Yes.
NB: Hazou is a crazily-creative sealmaster who has already killed 2 Akatsuki members with his inventions.
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Indirectly, he has killed all of Akatsuki with his inventions. He is now into his second round.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
I like these! Thanks for the contribution.
I'd be more likely to ask the general question of if hazou is opposing akatsuki than the specific weapons question. I might ask either one. Hard to model more specifically than that when I know the answer, it depends on my frame of mind and suspicions, and it depends on the context of how much of me is replacing itachi (history, motivations, etc.)
He kicked down the door just moments ago about dimensionalism. So we'll see.
I'm sorta assuming that Itachi can trivially see whether or not we're lying or telling the truth due to his eyeballs.
Can we simply set up this interrogation in the 7th path? Put it on neutral or prepared ground? Build a rune/seal that can dispel us/protect us, in case it goes tits up? He can just as easily tell if we're lying or being 100% honest in the 7th path as in Leaf. And it allows us to not return home from the research trip we're on. (or that would be the rationale on why we ask for the 7th path)
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I am firmly against any in-person interaction (regardless of 7P) with Itachi while all of our people are within his grasp. You correctly but fairy-speak-ly say that "He can just as easily tell if we're lying [or not, whether we are in person in 7P or HP]", but this just blurs the previously established point that Itachi will know that we are lying. There is no "if", no fairy speak or lying by omission (in fact, we explicitly violated our "agreement") or clever wording that gets us through that.
So Itachi now knows that Hazou is either currently working on or working towards anti-Akatsuki super weapons, dimensionalism, and an exponentially greater paradigm of superweapons.
And you want to give him that knowledge while he has all our people there? Did I get all that correctly?
As Velorien jokingly said, Hazou is on round two of inventing all of Akatsuki to death, and making progress! What do you think Itachi will do with all this information?
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- Location
- Omniverse #1345
Stupid NG+ increased difficulty
Dude. Come on. Let me try to cook.
I've been banging the drum with regards to the hostage situation much longer than you have (and predicted it correctly, before it even happened I might add.)
I'm trying to brainstorm here.
I'm trying to operate off a key assumption right now. (It could be wrong, but it might not be, and I'm trying to explore what to do in that scenario)
1. We can't extract any Team Uplift members from Leaf. Itachi and company (where's Itachi's partner when Naruto's talking with Itachi rn?) are expecting us to do exactly that. Itachi is in Leaf (basically) holding our family hostage and they can't escape.
With the rationale being explained here:
So in my mind, its either run around in the woods with only Kei, Kagmone and Hazo without Noburi chakra, FOOM, or any support, hoping somehow seal research saves us, or find some alternative (like roll the dice on Itachi.)
As you've correctly pointed out, we don't really have a bunch of good alternatives under that assumption. But noting we might only have bad solutions, is not a solution in itself.
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brainstorming idea. distract itachi from asking questions with an outrageous idea.
go in person. tell itachi we aren't doing dimensionalism. instead we cracked 3d sealing, you skeptic, and are getting better at it. now that hazou has much more sealing value to offer, what does akatsuki think about a joint venture with leaf? in return for working together on the rift, leaf can revive any of their non s-rankers. pain will at least listen to the advice and concerns and discuss ideas with leaf before doing another big ritual. itachi isn't pain but he, and preferably the summoners of akatsuki, will swear with their summoner boss that they will do everything in their power to pressure pain to adhere to this agreement.
even if itachi rejects this agreement it might distract him from asking whether hazou opposes akatsuki. although we still need to deal with leaking 3d sealing.
if itachi accepts this agreement we can present it as a fait accompli to naruto and weather his rage. what is he gonna do. confront and tell itachi, who he has trauma over, that he rejects the agreement?
the main issue with this is that itachi could detect hazou is hiding something (that hazou wants to distract itachi). we gotta either find an acceptable implied explanation for what he's hiding. or distract hazou so much he doesn't remember that he's hiding something. don't even tell hazou that this is a distraction. make him think this is his best chance at uplift, to work together with akatsuki now that things have come to this. let that be the sole thing that occupies his mind. if itachi detects nervousness, let hazou truthfully say it is because he is afraid what pain will do if revived. that's why he is so nervous and hopes so much akatsuki will accept so leaf can work together and talk with pain to make sure pain is aligned. pain who is already almost completely aligned with uplift and we just need to make those last few steps to make sure we are in agreement.
go in person. tell itachi we aren't doing dimensionalism. instead we cracked 3d sealing, you skeptic, and are getting better at it. now that hazou has much more sealing value to offer, what does akatsuki think about a joint venture with leaf? in return for working together on the rift, leaf can revive any of their non s-rankers. pain will at least listen to the advice and concerns and discuss ideas with leaf before doing another big ritual. itachi isn't pain but he, and preferably the summoners of akatsuki, will swear with their summoner boss that they will do everything in their power to pressure pain to adhere to this agreement.
even if itachi rejects this agreement it might distract him from asking whether hazou opposes akatsuki. although we still need to deal with leaking 3d sealing.
if itachi accepts this agreement we can present it as a fait accompli to naruto and weather his rage. what is he gonna do. confront and tell itachi, who he has trauma over, that he rejects the agreement?
the main issue with this is that itachi could detect hazou is hiding something (that hazou wants to distract itachi). we gotta either find an acceptable implied explanation for what he's hiding. or distract hazou so much he doesn't remember that he's hiding something. don't even tell hazou that this is a distraction. make him think this is his best chance at uplift, to work together with akatsuki now that things have come to this. let that be the sole thing that occupies his mind. if itachi detects nervousness, let hazou truthfully say it is because he is afraid what pain will do if revived. that's why he is so nervous and hopes so much akatsuki will accept so leaf can work together and talk with pain to make sure pain is aligned. pain who is already almost completely aligned with uplift and we just need to make those last few steps to make sure we are in agreement.
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Update on this idea for maximum success:
Include references to the existence of an SSR Nagato. Do not include an SSR Nagato.
if itachi finds hazou too much of a threat. he could kidnap or kill hazou. but then he needs to deal with an angry leaf. so he would need to nuke leaf. but that goes against Pain's ideals he is trying to follow. So our leverage is that Itachi gets what he wants without needing to go against his idol Pain's ideals and use violence. And he isn't actually giving that much up. Non s-rankers aren't a threat (if he starts quibbling over jonin we've got him hooked already). And getting pain to talk, heck pain probably loves to talk and would be delighted. And we aren't even asking Pain to never do a ritual, not like we could force him. So Itachi is giving very little up, aside from whenever you give a 7path oath you want to be careful about that.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
As you know, Interlude votes are always requests and it is the QM's option to write the top action plan instead.
I mention this because the winning vote is for "[X] Interlude: Disciple of the Beyond", with @Left-Hand Mutant
's "[X] Action Plan: Take The Fam And Go" as the top action plan. First, let me say that I quite like the sea-shanty reference. Well done, LHM.
It is every QM's purpose and delight to induce panic and stress in the players. On the other hand, the world has been so goddamn on fire for so many years now that I'm not doing that.
Tomorrow will indeed be the interlude and will consist only of the diegetic elements of Hazō replacing his Summoning Scroll Acolyte stunt with the new Disciple of the Beyond stunt. Nothing plot significant will happen outside of those parameters. Happy weekend, everyone. I hope you are all in a good place.
I mention this because the winning vote is for "[X] Interlude: Disciple of the Beyond", with @Left-Hand Mutant
's "[X] Action Plan: Take The Fam And Go" as the top action plan. First, let me say that I quite like the sea-shanty reference. Well done, LHM.
It is every QM's purpose and delight to induce panic and stress in the players. On the other hand, the world has been so goddamn on fire for so many years now that I'm not doing that.
Tomorrow will indeed be the interlude and will consist only of the diegetic elements of Hazō replacing his Summoning Scroll Acolyte stunt with the new Disciple of the Beyond stunt. Nothing plot significant will happen outside of those parameters. Happy weekend, everyone. I hope you are all in a good place.
EJ please..... that was the opening for a supervillain monologue. My heart can't take this
- Location
- France
Will we also get the research still pending from last update ?
Fucking around with letters and being evasive and trying to extract promises, ect, ect, is super sus.
We want him to be "OK, goketsu is compliant and will be back in two weeks, I'll check in then" so we can easily exfiltrate from Leaf.
The more sus/weird/noncompliant we act, the more attention he'll pay to us and to the other Goketsu.
If he gets unsure, he's much more likely to hang around to keep an eye on the estate, implant commands in Noburi, increase surveillance on the Goketsu, percomit to holding Leaf responsible for an AMITY violation if Hazou doesn't show, drag Noburi around as collateral, ect.
TLDR: raising Itachi's alert level, or making him think any harder about "how do I ensure Hazou shows up and is compliant?" is super costly.
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Not really no. Replying with a "Yes. Absolutely right away." and then dropping contact is much more suspicious. It's Hazo we're talking about here. Has he ever in his life just agreed to something without a billion subpoints or tangents? He's the guy known for flowcharts and planning out conversations on charts.
Example:
Person A: I have a party on Saturday, you plan on coming?
Person B: Yeah. Sure.
Person C: I'm thinking about bringing an appetizer. What is everyone else bringing so I can plan ahead?
Who do you think is more likely to show up? B or C?
Itachi's probably already doing that, tbh. By sending the letter, having real reasonable questions (how do I comply without you stealing all my clan secrets) and extracting some reasonable promises/guarantees (I won't be killed because I did seal research and seal research often creates dangerous weapons/things I don't want to talk about with you) with some extra tangents sprinkled in, is exactly inline with Hazo's past actions and expected behavior. And it shows Hazo is actually thinking through what happens when he returns to Leaf. Which is a positive sign that he actually plans to return to Leaf.
Example:
Person A: I have a party on Saturday, you plan on coming?
Person B: Yeah. Sure.
Person C: I'm thinking about bringing an appetizer. What is everyone else bringing so I can plan ahead?
Who do you think is more likely to show up? B or C?
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You know. We told Naruto multiple times and pretty specifically that without Noburi we can't win and we're sh*t outta luck. If, hypothetically, Naruto's cooking up a plan to extract Noburi, asap, what would that look like? Could he make something happen/do something unique that we haven't been thinking about?
Also, who's Itachi with? It's been shown that Akasuki travel in packs?
Also, who's Itachi with? It's been shown that Akasuki travel in packs?
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Fuck around with letters after exfiltration.
- Declare we went missing.
- Accuse Akatsuki of planting the blood on Asuma as cassus belli unless they find Akane's real killers.
- Call Akatsuki insane to demand life long surveillance of our research and insane if they plan to follow though on destroying Leaf when 99% of their demands have been met.
- Bounties on Akatsuki's heads. Name your project, world's best living sealmaster will research it.