Dragon Ball: After the End

[Doomed Wombat]

[X] "Hopeful" : Above all things, Kakara hopes and believes in making tomorrow better than today. All of the political effort, all the training, everything, it's not just about righting past wrongs, but about making things in the future better. Kakara believes this is possible. She holds onto that hope, uses it as the core of her drive to change herself and others. Not to mold them or force them or beat them down, but to lift them up, to perceive and strive for the hope that anyone can be better. Grandpa Gohan didn't have much hope for Jaffur, but he admitted he was wrong. Maybe what the Exiles need now is some Hope, a vision to be stirred toward.

Tis better than mine and got across what I want. My pick.

 

[Deathbybunnies]

EDIT: That response was unnecessarily hostile. But I'm getting frustrated with you using the most uncharitable lens possible to interpret the things I'm saying.

Click to shrink...

I should point out that we ought to interpret all of these traits in the most uncharitable way possible - people are going to be using them to justify votes for many votes to come, and will be twisting them however best suits their purpose without explicitly contradicting the written definition. It's why I went through all the options and listed possible downsides, even if they weren't what the text necessarily intended. Or at least, I tried to.

 

[KnightDisciple]

I should point out that we ought to interpret all of these traits in the most uncharitable way possible - people are going to be using them to justify votes for many votes to come, and will be twisting them however best suits their purpose without explicitly contradicting the written definition. It's why I went through all the options and listed possible downsides, even if they weren't what the text necessarily intended. Or at least, I tried to.

Click to shrink...

But you did not do so in a way that was demeaning, insulting, or frustrating.

 

[Aranfan]

[x] KnightDisciple

 

[fictionfan]

Spoiler: hope

hōp/
noun

1. 1.
   a feeling of expectation and desire for a certain thing to happen.
   "he looked through her belongings in the hope of coming across some information"
   synonyms: aspiration, desire, wish, expectation, ambition, aim, goal, plan, design;More
   
   
2. 2.
   archaic
   a feeling of trust.

verb

1. 1.
   want something to happen or be the case.
   "he's hoping for an offer of compensation"
   synonyms: expect, anticipate, look for, be hopeful of, pin one's hopes on, want;
   wish for, long for, dream of
   "he's hoping for a medal"

None of these definitions imply motivation or action on the part of the person experiencing hope.

 

[LilyWitch]

[x] Yes. You can trust him with this. ("Recruit Sensei Carrick" option occurs next year; even if you don't take it, somebody will approach him to bring him in)
[x] "Passionate." You are alive in a way it seems few other people are. When you look at the world, you see it exploding with amazing things that you want to experience or possess. You can do no less than to burn just as brightly.

 

[Lailoken]

Considered
Examined
Premeditated
Enduring
Relentless
Unrelenting
Unyielding
Unflinching
Fierce
Implacable
Adamant
Ineluctable
Resolute
Resolved
Staunch
Tenacious
Bold
Unshakable
Intrepid
True
Steadfast
Dedicated
Intent
Steady
Tenacious
Persistent
Stout
Inexorable
Ruthless
Unremitting
Assiduous
Scrupulous
Zealous
Diligent
Industrious
Studious
Sedulous
Indefatigable
Obdurate
Persevering
Pertinacious
Determined
Earnest
Dogged
Purposeful

[X] "Spunky"

 

[KnightDisciple]

Spoiler: hope

hōp/
noun

1. 1.
   a feeling of expectation and desire for a certain thing to happen.
   "he looked through her belongings in the hope of coming across some information"
   synonyms: aspiration, desire, wish, expectation, ambition, aim, goal, plan, design;More
   
   
2. 2.
   archaic
   a feeling of trust.

verb

1. 1.
   want something to happen or be the case.
   "he's hoping for an offer of compensation"
   synonyms: expect, anticipate, look for, be hopeful of, pin one's hopes on, want;
   wish for, long for, dream of
   "he's hoping for a medal"

None of these definitions imply motivation or action on the part of the person experiencing hope.

Click to shrink...

*Facepalm* Oh my gosh and your point is? This isn't a dictionary entry, it's a description of an attitude, a general outlook, an underlying motivation.
Kakara wants something to be the case, and so she's going to work for it.

I really am starting to feel like you're basically trying to say "your vote is bad and wrong and you should feel bad and wrong" without using those specific words. Is that the message you are trying to communicate? Or are you trying to communicate something different?

 

[Deathbybunnies]

Spoiler: Vote Tally

Vote Tally : Sci-Fi - Dragon Ball: After the End | Page 337 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.9
[x] Yes. You can trust him with this. ("Recruit Sensei Carrick" option occurs next year; even if you don't take it, somebody will approach him to bring him in)
No. of Votes: 9
ElleonXan
anailater
Aranfan
Bilbo Baggins
fictionfan
KaintukeeBob
KnightDisciple
pianoman
Terrabrand
[X] "Passionate." You are alive in a way it seems few other people are. When you look at the world, you see it exploding with amazing things that you want to experience or possess. You can do no less than to burn just as brightly.
No. of Votes: 7
ChildishChimera
anailater
Bakkasama
Deathbybunnies
ElleonXan
KaintukeeBob
XkaliburRage
[X] "Hopeful" : Above all things, Kakara hopes and believes in making tomorrow better than today. All of the political effort, all the training, everything, it's not just about righting past wrongs, but about making things in the future better. Kakara believes this is possible. She holds onto that hope, uses it as the core of her drive to change herself and others. Not to mold them or force them or beat them down, but to lift them up, to perceive and strive for the hope that anyone can be better. Grandpa Gohan didn't have much hope for Jaffur, but he admitted he was wrong. Maybe what the Exiles need now is some Hope, a vision to be stirred toward.
No. of Votes: 7
KnightDisciple
Alex pears
Aranfan
Enerael
Karnax626
pianoman
Terrabrand
[X] No. Patriarch Yammar makes good points about his reliability. You don't really know him yet. ("Recruit Sensei Carrick" options are permanently struck from the yearly options and will not reappear in the absence of new information; your co-conspirators will respect your judgment as the one who knows this man most on a matter as delicate as this)
No. of Votes: 5
ChildishChimera
Bakkasama
Deathbybunnies
Karnax626
MoonBunny
-[x] however over the course of your lessons mention that you fought against the sealing. He is likely to teach more if he knows we are also against mind control.
No. of Votes: 3
MoonBunny
Deathbybunnies
Karnax626
[X] "Organized." This is not a matter of dramatics. You have your goals. What does it take to achieve them? All else falls away once you have determined that.
No. of Votes: 3
MoonBunny
Bilbo Baggins
fictionfan
Total No. of Voters: 17

Yes has pulled well-ahead of No, in the less hotly-debated voting choice. I suspect it's due the Hopeful voters voting based on how our character would act if "Hopeful" wins!

And It seems Passionate and Hopeful are now neck-and-neck! I personally switched my vote to Passionate on the basis that it has the positive aspects of optimism that I liked about Hopeful, whilst toning down the possible flaws of such optimism.

EDIT THAT ISN'T REALLY AN EDIT BECAUSE I'M STILL TYPING THIS: Passionate is now ahead by one!

*Facepalm* Oh my gosh and your point is? This isn't a dictionary entry, it's a description of an attitude, a general outlook, an underlying motivation.
Kakara wants something to be the case, and so she's going to work for it.

Click to shrink...

I think maybe you just described the main disconnect pretty well, actually. Your write-in "Hopeful" and its description are intended as being hopeful for the future, but the name makes it very easy to instead interpret it as "assuming risks will always pay off" - and I'm pretty sure it will be interpreted as such in future votes, at least by some voters. Just spit-balling here, but maybe if you kept the description and changed the name...?

 

[KnightDisciple]

Spoiler: Vote Tally

Vote Tally : Sci-Fi - Dragon Ball: After the End | Page 337 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.9
[x] Yes. You can trust him with this. ("Recruit Sensei Carrick" option occurs next year; even if you don't take it, somebody will approach him to bring him in)
No. of Votes: 9
ElleonXan
anailater
Aranfan
Bilbo Baggins
fictionfan
KaintukeeBob
KnightDisciple
pianoman
Terrabrand
[X] "Passionate." You are alive in a way it seems few other people are. When you look at the world, you see it exploding with amazing things that you want to experience or possess. You can do no less than to burn just as brightly.
No. of Votes: 7
ChildishChimera
anailater
Bakkasama
Deathbybunnies
ElleonXan
KaintukeeBob
XkaliburRage
[X] "Hopeful" : Above all things, Kakara hopes and believes in making tomorrow better than today. All of the political effort, all the training, everything, it's not just about righting past wrongs, but about making things in the future better. Kakara believes this is possible. She holds onto that hope, uses it as the core of her drive to change herself and others. Not to mold them or force them or beat them down, but to lift them up, to perceive and strive for the hope that anyone can be better. Grandpa Gohan didn't have much hope for Jaffur, but he admitted he was wrong. Maybe what the Exiles need now is some Hope, a vision to be stirred toward.
No. of Votes: 7
KnightDisciple
Alex pears
Aranfan
Enerael
Karnax626
pianoman
Terrabrand
[X] No. Patriarch Yammar makes good points about his reliability. You don't really know him yet. ("Recruit Sensei Carrick" options are permanently struck from the yearly options and will not reappear in the absence of new information; your co-conspirators will respect your judgment as the one who knows this man most on a matter as delicate as this)
No. of Votes: 5
ChildishChimera
Bakkasama
Deathbybunnies
Karnax626
MoonBunny
-[x] however over the course of your lessons mention that you fought against the sealing. He is likely to teach more if he knows we are also against mind control.
No. of Votes: 3
MoonBunny
Deathbybunnies
Karnax626
[X] "Organized." This is not a matter of dramatics. You have your goals. What does it take to achieve them? All else falls away once you have determined that.
No. of Votes: 3
MoonBunny
Bilbo Baggins
fictionfan
Total No. of Voters: 17

Yes has pulled well-ahead of No, in the less hotly-debated voting choice. I suspect it's due the Hopeful voters voting based on how our character would act if "Hopeful" wins!

And It seems Passionate and Hopeful are now neck-and-neck! I personally switched my vote to Passionate on the basis that it has the positive aspects of optimism that I liked about Hopeful, whilst toning down the possible flaws of such optimism.

EDIT THAT ISN'T REALLY AN EDIT BECAUSE I'M STILL TYPING THIS: Passionate is now ahead by one!


I think maybe you just described the main disconnect pretty well, actually. Your write-in "Hopeful" and its description are intended as being hopeful for the future, but the name makes it very easy to instead interpret it as "seeing things as better than they are" - and I'm pretty sure it will be interpreted as such in future votes, at least by some voters. Just spit-balling here, but maybe if you kept the description and changed the name...?

Click to shrink...

Or I could keep my vote the same. Giving it a different name seems silly, it's still the same concept.

 

[Deathbybunnies]

Or I could keep my vote the same. Giving it a different name seems silly, it's still the same concept.

Click to shrink...

Hey, I'm just throwing ideas around - the whole argument is basically "it's intended as this, but it can (and will) be interpreted as this instead by some".

 

[KnightDisciple]

Hey, I'm just throwing ideas around - the whole argument is basically "it's intended as this, but it can (and will) be interpreted as this instead by some".

Click to shrink...

Put a different way: I appreciate the gesture's intended purpose, but at this point it's a matter of principle.

 

[codeRR]

[X] "Hopeful" : Above all things, Kakara hopes and believes in making tomorrow better than today. All of the political effort, all the training, everything, it's not just about righting past wrongs, but about making things in the future better. Kakara believes this is possible. She holds onto that hope, uses it as the core of her drive to change herself and others. Not to mold them or force them or beat them down, but to lift them up, to perceive and strive for the hope that anyone can be better. Grandpa Gohan didn't have much hope for Jaffur, but he admitted he was wrong. Maybe what the Exiles need now is some Hope, a vision to be stirred toward.

 

[PoptartProdigy]

There's a really easy way to settle this.
@PoptartProdigy , as written, would the "Hopeful" trait make Kakara "not see the present clearly"? Putting aside vote choices that might somehow specifically produce that result, mind.

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Nope. That's a possible interpretation of "hopeful" if you take only that word to be the whole of the trait, but the text of your write-in clearly specifies it as a sense of idealism for the future. Can't hope that things get better without acknowledging that they're fucked in the now.

 

[KaintukeeBob]

Not changing my vote - I like Passionate.

But I won't be sad to see Hopeful win.

 

[fictionfan]

*Facepalm* Oh my gosh and your point is? This isn't a dictionary entry, it's a description of an attitude, a general outlook, an underlying motivation.
Kakara wants something to be the case, and so she's going to work for it.

I really am starting to feel like you're basically trying to say "your vote is bad and wrong and you should feel bad and wrong" without using those specific words. Is that the message you are trying to communicate? Or are you trying to communicate something different?

Click to shrink...

I am now starting to feel annoyed. I have been criticizing your idea well as you have been criticizing me. There is a difference between the two.

 

[fictionfan]

Nope. That's a possible interpretation of "hopeful" if you take only that word to be the whole of the trait, but the text of your write-in clearly specifies it as a sense of idealism for the future. Can't hope that things get better without acknowledging that they're fucked in the now.

Click to shrink...

This does make me feel better.

 

[Deathbybunnies]

Nope. That's a possible interpretation of "hopeful" if you take only that word to be the whole of the trait, but the text of your write-in clearly specifies it as a sense of idealism for the future. Can't hope that things get better without acknowledging that they're fucked in the now.

Click to shrink...

That makes me feel better too. I'm sticking with Passionate for clarity's sake, but now we have an explicit WOG to quote when people misinterpret Hopeful.

 

[KnightDisciple]

I am now starting to feel annoyed. I have been criticizing your idea well as you have been criticizing me. There is a difference between the two.

Click to shrink...

I've been getting frustrated and flustered by how you've critiqued my idea. Notice how my reaction to @Deathbybunnies has not been the same? Despite him offering some critique? Perhaps it's because he wasn't taking such an aggressive and negative attitude and tone toward me, my write-in, and my subsequent explanations.

 

[Lailoken]

Is there more than just the ship we discovered? Because if we set an ambush (removing the engine just in case), we could capture the scouts fairly easily.

On Carrick, I am tempted to trust him. He's been fairly reasonable and Jaffur's treatment doesn't seem to be something he approves of. I also sorta suspect that he does or will know about at least the cliff notes of our activities. Fucking precogs man.

As for the other, oh boy do we need to make this perfect. I like Determination, currently trying to think of something better than that. I don't really like Iron Will, stubbornness can be equally as erroneous as passivity.

Click to shrink...

It's a matter of need-to-know. We don't need him, and every additional conspirator is an additional point of failure. His brother is in on the conspiracy, and has decided to leave him out of it despite knowing him far, far better than Kakara ever will. Yammar has the right of it here. When you're plotting capital insurrection you can't afford not to be ruthless.

I sort of want to tell Sensei Carrick just so he knows we fought against the sealing. I did not like that look.

Right now he is just a Acquaintance [Positive]. I would like to bring that up.

Click to shrink...

While nice, that's a dangerous reason to put the whole objective and everyone's lives at risk.

If we wanted internal conflict and Angst, we'd be playing Jaffur right now!

(or at least that type of angst)

I'd prefer not DETERMINED and AMBITIOUS. We are the nice pacifist!

Click to shrink...

I don't know about the write ins. Determined sounds a bit like achieving results/results matters regardless the method while Determination sounds a bit like she thinks the fate of her people is tied to hers and that she must carry that burden. Passionate sounds like the world is full of wonderfull things and she wants to live her life to the fullest. Like she wants to do all the things to the best of her abilities and invest herself on them. That seems like a nice outlook in life, ya know? Happier at least.

Click to shrink...

I know that I want to use the "Moxie" for a write-in, but I don't know how I want to describe it.

Click to shrink...

This is honestly why I like Passionate the most right now. It feels, in some ways, both the most lively, and the most flexible. I'm leery of choosing one that makes Kakara too intractable and unbending. That might lead to bad decisions down the road.

Click to shrink...

This is one of the main reasons I like it as well.
The other is that it's downsides feel the most like Kakara. She may get things wrong, if she follows her heart, and does what she thinks is right. But that won't make her regret her original decision, just her methods/how she goes about achieving her goal.

Click to shrink...

[X] "Determined" It doesn't matter what your goal is, through sheer guts, mercy, brains or power you will adapt and will always be able to achieve your goals.

I'd rather not limit ourselves to this mind set at this age and remember people we're still what 12/13.

This isn't really the age for this despite our extraordinary circumstances.

Click to shrink...

"Spunky". Gregarious Spunky Oddball. Why so serious?

 

[Lunaryon]

That is another word I would gladly jump behind.

 

[fictionfan]

That is another word I would gladly jump behind.

Click to shrink...

Yes nicely generic as she is, but more.

 

[Deathbybunnies]

On an entirely different topic:

And it doesn't surprise you at all when the engineer your Dad brings in tells you that the spacecraft has an active cloaking device, and an armor alloy that blocks ki signatures up to a maximum of ten million.

Click to shrink...

Would examining the cloaking device and/or the armour alloy be useful in developing our own ki stealth abilities (invisibility, preventing ki from leaking to be detected by enemies, etc.) or are the differences between mechanical solutions and ki solutions too different? I'm not expecting them to give us the answer, but we might be able to mimic some of the principles used.

 

[ChronOblivion]

It's a matter of need-to-know. We don't need him, and every additional conspirator is an additional point of failure. His brother is in on the conspiracy, and has decided to leave him out of it despite knowing him far, far better than Kakara ever will. Yammar has the right of it here. When you're plotting capital insurrection you can't afford not to be ruthless.

Click to shrink...

Alright, I'm convinced now. Keep it a secret, if he finds out (fucking precogs) he shouldn't hold it against us.

 

[CaesriusPolybius]

[X] "Hopeful" : Above all things, Kakara hopes and believes in making tomorrow better than today. All of the political effort, all the training, everything, it's not just about righting past wrongs, but about making things in the future better. Kakara believes this is possible. She holds onto that hope, uses it as the core of her drive to change herself and others. Not to mold them or force them or beat them down, but to lift them up, to perceive and strive for the hope that anyone can be better. Grandpa Gohan didn't have much hope for Jaffur, but he admitted he was wrong. Maybe what the Exiles need now is some Hope, a vision to be stirred toward.