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Dragon Ball: After the End

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In general, all traits currently under discussion are moral-neutral. This is very specifically about Kakara's drive to succeed, which is very personal and quite divorced from ethics.

KnightDisciple said:
@PoptartProdigy , let me know if this works.

[] "Hopeful" : Above all things, Kakara hopes and believes in making tomorrow better than today. All of the political effort, all the training, everything, it's not just about righting past wrongs, but about making things in the future better. Kakara believes this is possible. She holds onto that hope, uses it as the core of her drive to change herself and others. Not to mold them or force them or beat them down, but to lift them up, to perceive and strive for the hope that anyone can be better. Grandpa Gohan didn't have much hope for Jaffur, but he admitted he was wrong. Maybe what the Exiles need now is some Hope, a vision to be stirred toward.
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Indicates a specific mindset and explicitly lays out how that might be used to generate the drive to succeed. Very nice.

Approved.

Langevin said:
[] "Ad Astra". Your ideal--of peace and happiness for the people around you, for Garenhuld, maybe even for the galaxy as a whole--isn't yet within your grasp. It's more like a distant star, burning so far away you can't feel its warmth. But you can still see it. And until you get there, you'll keep moving towards that guiding light.
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Specific, detailed, and focused. An excellent trait. That being said, in this case I have to shoot it down. It is specific enough that it shares the same trait-space as "A Cause" -- namely, it's a specific ambition towards which Kakara can drive herself. I keep those to a "one at a time" dynamic to avoid bloat or split focus. I will definitely keep the text of this one in mind, once "A Cause" is discharged, one way or the other, as something that may crop up.

Denied.
 
KnightDisciple said:
I could probably have written it at twice the length, if I didn't think Poptart would nix it at that point.

My ultimate aim, I am going to confess, is to go for a collection of traits that might evoke the personality of Optimus Prime, perhaps echoes of Gohan, Tavi Calderon (of Codex Alera), Luke Skywalker, perhaps even Jean-Luc Picard.
In short, someone who wishes for peaces, believes in building and working for a better tomorrow, believes in and hopes for the good in others...
But after a certain point, has no qualms fighting, albeit seeking the minimal death toll where possible, and the shortest overall fight time possible.
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Huh, we have pretty similar goals then. I basically want that, except with a willingness/ability to look and plan further ahead - and if making a slightly-dubious decision earlier avoids very nasty situations later on, be willing to do so.

fictionfan said:
I would expect traits to influence each other all the time.
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You might be right! I only bring it up because this was explicitly an action to develop Driven, and we aren't allowed to deliberately develop pacifist through actions - it has to come through story, apparently.
 
In that possible plan for next year I wrote up before I put alot of focus on ki control. However with the alien scouts on the planet I think we should instead focus on ki sensing. It would be cool if we could find the aliens first.
 
[x] Yes. You can trust him with this. ("Recruit Sensei Carrick" option occurs next year; even if you don't take it, somebody will approach him to bring him in)
[X] "Hopeful" : Above all things, Kakara hopes and believes in making tomorrow better than today. All of the political effort, all the training, everything, it's not just about righting past wrongs, but about making things in the future better. Kakara believes this is possible. She holds onto that hope, uses it as the core of her drive to change herself and others. Not to mold them or force them or beat them down, but to lift them up, to perceive and strive for the hope that anyone can be better. Grandpa Gohan didn't have much hope for Jaffur, but he admitted he was wrong. Maybe what the Exiles need now is some Hope, a vision to be stirred toward.

Because what else embodies "hope" than saying our sensei can be trusted with this?
 
[X] "Hopeful" : Above all things, Kakara hopes and believes in making tomorrow better than today. All of the political effort, all the training, everything, it's not just about righting past wrongs, but about making things in the future better. Kakara believes this is possible. She holds onto that hope, uses it as the core of her drive to change herself and others. Not to mold them or force them or beat them down, but to lift them up, to perceive and strive for the hope that anyone can be better. Grandpa Gohan didn't have much hope for Jaffur, but he admitted he was wrong. Maybe what the Exiles need now is some Hope, a vision to be stirred toward.

Excelent idea KnightDisciple!

Edit:
fictionfan said:
That sort of thinking is exactly why I am not voting for hopeful.
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I am pretty sure that being hopeful does not mean being naive (is that the right word?). It means striving for a better future, I believe, not being blindly optimistic.
 
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fictionfan said:
That sort of thinking is exactly why I am not voting for hopeful.
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fictionfan said:
You might as well call the trait Wishful thinking.
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Whilst I happen to feel the same way - it's the exact trap of excessive optimism I was worried about - if he's voting for Hopeful (and being the creator, it would be odd if he didn't) it is IC to be making decisions using it as a basis, and he's perfectly entitled to vote how he wants the character to develop, even if you disagree.
 
[x] Yes. You can trust him with this. ("Recruit Sensei Carrick" option occurs next year; even if you don't take it, somebody will approach him to bring him in)
[X] "Hopeful" : Above all things, Kakara hopes and believes in making tomorrow better than today. All of the political effort, all the training, everything, it's not just about righting past wrongs, but about making things in the future better. Kakara believes this is possible. She holds onto that hope, uses it as the core of her drive to change herself and others. Not to mold them or force them or beat them down, but to lift them up, to perceive and strive for the hope that anyone can be better. Grandpa Gohan didn't have much hope for Jaffur, but he admitted he was wrong. Maybe what the Exiles need now is some Hope, a vision to be stirred toward.

I'm all for either hopeful or passionate
 
KnightDisciple said:
The trait isn't about just sitting around doing nothing. It's about having a goal, working to achieve the goal, but not sticking so rigidly to it that you can't change. Hope is the fundamental motivation behind the actions.
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Whilst I don't agree with him making the comment (and he's put it pretty harshly) making decisions based on how you want the world to be instead of how it actually is is a known flaw that's already deeply ingrained into human psychology (seriously, just google "optimism human nature"). I'd prefer not to ramp that up to 11 if we can help it.
 
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Enerael said:
I am pretty sure that being hopeful does not mean being naive (is that the right word?). It means striving for a better future, I believe, not being blindly optimistic.
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All of the possibile traits strive for a better future. This is the only one that involves not seeing the present clearly.
 
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Deathbybunnies said:
Whilst I don't agree with him making the comment (and he's put it pretty harshly) making decisions based on how you want the world to be instead of how it actually is is a known flaw that's already deeply ingrained into human psychology (seriously, just google "optimism human nature"). I'd prefer not to ramp that up to 11 if we can help it.
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Well, look to the examples I gave that I hope us to emulate. They certainly are optimistic, but they can be pragmatic if necessary. Just not to the point that it's all Hard Decisions and all that. There's always a better way, and if there isn't, then you make the better way.
 
Changing my vote to Hopeful.

[x] No. Patriarch Yammar makes good points about his reliability. You don'treally know him yet. ("Recruit Sensei Carrick" options are permanently struck from the yearly options and will not reappear in the absence of new information; your co-conspirators will respect your judgment as the one who knows this man most on a matter as delicate as this)
-[x] however over the course of your lessons mention that you fought against the sealing. He is likely to teach more if he knows we are also against mind control.
[X] "Hopeful" : Above all things, Kakara hopes and believes in making tomorrow better than today. All of the political effort, all the training, everything, it's not just about righting past wrongs, but about making things in the future better. Kakara believes this is possible. She holds onto that hope, uses it as the core of her drive to change herself and others. Not to mold them or force them or beat them down, but to lift them up, to perceive and strive for the hope that anyone can be better. Grandpa Gohan didn't have much hope for Jaffur, but he admitted he was wrong. Maybe what the Exiles need now is some Hope, a vision to be stirred toward.
 
KnightDisciple said:
Well, look to the examples I gave that I hope us to emulate. They certainly are optimistic, but they can be pragmatic if necessary. Just not to the point that it's all Hard Decisions and all that. There's always a better way, and if there isn't, then you make the better way.
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Fair enough! I mostly agree with the spirit of the trait, I just don't want us to have it as an actual hardwired trait, because it's something that I think it's very easy to go overboard on even without having it as an explicit trait influencing our actions. But hey, that's what votes are for!
 
[x] Yes. You can trust him with this. ("Recruit Sensei Carrick" option occurs next year; even if you don't take it, somebody will approach him to bring him in)

[X] "Organized." This is not a matter of dramatics. You have your goals. What does it take to achieve them? All else falls away once you have determined that.
 
KnightDisciple said:
Well, look to the examples I gave that I hope us to emulate. They certainly are optimistic, but they can be pragmatic if necessary. Just not to the point that it's all Hard Decisions and all that. There's always a better way, and if there isn't, then you make the better way.
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The examples are good. However they can be applied to every other trait mentioned which don't encourage risky action in the faith that "everything will turn out all right".
 
Deathbybunnies said:
Fair enough! I mostly agree with the spirit of the trait, I just don't want us to have it as an actual hardwired trait, because it's something that I think it's very easy to go overboard on even without having it as an explicit trait influencing our actions. But hey, that's what votes are for!
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And I'm not particularly a fan of explicitly driving toward a "Rationalist" trait. DEMOCRACY!

fictionfan said:
The examples are good. However they can be applied to every other trait mentioned which don't encourage risky action in the faith that "everything will turn out all right".
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EDIT: That response was unnecessarily hostile. But I'm getting frustrated with you using the most uncharitable lens possible to interpret the things I'm saying.
 
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fictionfan said:
All of the possibile traits strive for a better future. This is the only one that involves not seeing the present clearly.
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I do not agree with this. How can you forge a better future while blind to the present? You must know what is to be able to improve it. Kakara is pretty inteligent, I do believe she realizes this. If you were correct it would be a significant flaw and therefore mentioned when it was approved I am certain.
 
Enerael said:
I do not agree with this. How can you forge a better future while blind to the present? You must know what is to be able to improve it. Kakara is pretty inteligent, I do believe she realizes this. If you were correct it would be a significant flaw and therefore mentioned when it was approved I am certain.
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There's a really easy way to settle this.
@PoptartProdigy , as written, would the "Hopeful" trait make Kakara "not see the present clearly"? Putting aside vote choices that might somehow specifically produce that result, mind.
 
KnightDisciple said:
Because what else embodies "hope" than saying our sensei can be trusted with this?
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In other words not telling sensi because it is good idea (which it is) or because of soild reasoning, but because you want to live in world where you can trust sensi so you act like you already live in that world. That is not striving for a better future. It is being overly optimistic about the present.

KnightDisciple said:
Thanks for interpreting my ideas in the most simplistic and childish way possible while side-steppin
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fictionfan said:
In other words not telling sensi because it is good idea (which it is) or because of soild reasoning, but because you want to live in world where you can trust sensi so you act like you already live in that world. That is not striving for a better future. It is being overly optimistic about the present.
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No, it's me saying that, based on all things observed thus far, Carrick Balor can be trusted to be brought in on The Plan. Because it's a good idea to do so, because it's the right thing to do, because our knowledge of his personality, behavior, and opinions informs this, and because we trust him, have faith in him, and have hope he'll have the best possible reaction.
It's almost like none of these views are mutually exclusive?

I'm growing increasingly frustrated with how negatively you're reacting to my posts and presented viewpoints. It's hampering calm debate in this thread and I've striven not to do the same to you.
 
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