Dragon Ball: After the End

[Bakkasama]

Why would we want a rationalist trait, specially as evolution to driven? We vote based on feels half the time!

[x] No. Patriarch Yammar makes good points about his reliability. You don't really know him yet. ("Recruit Sensei Carrick" options are permanently struck from the yearly options and will not reappear in the absence of new information; your co-conspirators will respect your judgment as the one who knows this man most on a matter as delicate as this)

[x] "Passionate." You are alive in a way it seems few other people are. When you look at the world, you see it exploding with amazing things that you want to experience or possess. You can do no less than to burn just as brightly.

 

[KnightDisciple]

I'm still trying to decide if I want to just cast in for "Passionate" (definitely the most fitting and satisfying of the ones from either Poptart or others presented thus far), or make my own. Hm.

 

[Deathbybunnies]

If they're all mechanically identical, then there's no point in thinking mechanically - it's purely a flavour vote.

I like Iron Will as a concept, but I don't want Kakara completely unwilling to compromise - sometimes, going the extra mile to get everything you want costs more than you gain. Getting everything you want is something to strive for, but being able to take a smaller victory, to build on later, is important.
Kakara is already really organised - we wouldn't be able to manage so much if she weren't. I'm unsure of how this would actually change her character, to be honest.
Passionate seems more about always having energy, always reaching for the next goal and always seeing the best in life - essentially, the eternal optimist. I like it, but my concern is that there's such a thing as too much optimism, seeing things as better than they really are. I like the energetic, driven (heh) part of this, but seeing the world as it is and not as you want it to be is really important.
The determined write-in is possibly a little bland, but as a result avoids all of the downsides. Since this is explicitly not the trait's final form, I'm actually pretty okay with this - unless someone comes up with a better write-in, I'm voting for this.

[] "Determined" It doesn't matter what your goal is, through sheer guts, mercy, brains or power you will adapt and will always be able to achieve your goals.
EDIT: Organised was discussed in more detail later on, and I changed my vote accordingly.
[] "Organized." This is not a matter of dramatics. You have your goals. What does it take to achieve them? All else falls away once you have determined that.
DOUBLE EDIT: I'm not a fan of Hopeful, so I'm switching my vote to its' main competition, which I like quite a lot anyway.
[x] "Passionate." You are alive in a way it seems few other people are. When you look at the world, you see it exploding with amazing things that you want to experience or possess. You can do no less than to burn just as brightly.


[x] No. Patriarch Yammar makes good points about his reliability. You don'treally know him yet. ("Recruit Sensei Carrick" options are permanently struck from the yearly options and will not reappear in the absence of new information; your co-conspirators will respect your judgment as the one who knows this man most on a matter as delicate as this)
-[x] however over the course of your lessons mention that you fought against the sealing. He is likely to teach more if he knows we are also against mind control.

I like this write-in! If we weren't already learning mind-link, I'd say we should tell him, but right now telling him doesn't actually help the conspiracy in any way, so even a negligible risk is an infinite risk:reward ratio. Even if the risk is very small, we don't actually get anything from it. Oh, and presumably his brother has a reason for wanting him kept out of the loop.

 

[ElleonXan]

Just a quick note to those voting to keep Sensei out of the conspiracy yet still tell him we fought against the Sealing to gain his favor: that has a massive chance to backfire. By telling him that we've known all along what the right thing to do was, but decided to do the easy thing instead, we are just as likely (if not more so) to lose his respect as to gain it.

Because let's face it... that is what we're seen to be doing. Now maybe if we hadn't told Sensei about Jaffur being awake, we might be able to get away with it. But Sensei knows that Jaffur is awake and imprisoned inside his own head.

Right now, he probably thinks of us as a repentitent child, a guilty girl who made a mistake and recently found out just how badly they screwed up. But if we reveal that we were against the Sealing from the very start? That raises the question of why we went along with the "official story."

And even though we could probably explain that away, that also raises the question of "so what are you doing now that you know?" And discounting the conspiracy, the answer to that is: nothing.

Which is probably not the right answer if you're trying to "earn his respect to get him to teach you new things."

 

[Karnax626]

[x] No. Patriarch Yammar makes good points about his reliability. You don'treally know him yet. ("Recruit Sensei Carrick" options are permanently struck from the yearly options and will not reappear in the absence of new information; your co-conspirators will respect your judgment as the one who knows this man most on a matter as delicate as this)
-[x] however over the course of your lessons mention that you fought against the sealing. He is likely to teach more if he knows we are also against mind control.
[x] "Passionate." You are alive in a way it seems few other people are. When you look at the world, you see it exploding with amazing things that you want to experience or possess. You can do no less than to burn just as brightly.
EDIT: Changed from Passionate to Hopeful.

 

[PoptartProdigy]

@PoptartProdigy : Does the conspiracy have any idea why Jacob was moved to our school?

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Jaron, actually. But no, nothing concrete. Guesses, yes. It does move her and her family closer to Berra, and thus aid in the event of emergencies, so there's that. Ultimately, though, you aren't certain.

Idea for another action

[]Tell Maya that Jaron also has the potential to learn ki. Ask her if she wants to include him in our lessons. If she says yes action changes to invite Jaron to our training sessions. If no train with him normally.

Dandeer can't really object given her justification for the seal to Dad and considering that we have told Dad what we think of the sealing it would be odd if we don't do something when we are meeting Jaron every day.

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It would be very odd. Maya is a ki mutant (your Dad hasn't checked her to see if she's a secret Sealed saiyan like some people thought, no, so you think of her as a mutant for the moment), and aware of it. Something needed to be done, and you did it. And you made the effort to get her to willingly come forward to boot. Jaron, as far as he knows, is a normal human. While your Dad and Lady Dandeer wouldn't be strictly surprised that you decided to circumvent them that way, you don't have reason enough for them to excuse it, either. In their eyes it would be a transparent attempt to try and break the Seal, or at least undermine it.

But you can always try.

I said I could not think of good writing for a rationalist trait. I am going to try anyway.

[] Rationalist: You face the world headon rejecting comforting lies. You see the world as it is and when it is wrong you work to make it right.

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There's nothing wrong with that one in the text, it's just that full-on rationalism is something that, should you all choose to pursue it, develops from other current or pending traits. A truly rationalist mindset is a very advanced way of looking at the world, and is thus categorized as an end-game trait. So, while the trait as written is fine as a trait, it's early to bring it in.

Denied.

Kakara is already really organised - we wouldn't be able to manage so much if she weren't. I'm unsure of how this would actually change her character, to be honest.

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It represents Kakara shifting to a more clinical or analytical way of viewing the world. She knows what she wants to achieve. Anything in the way of that is simply a problem to be resolved, be that an army, social pressure, or peer pressure. In many ways it's the opposite of "Passionate." An organized Kakara is a Kakara that is vaguely impatient with the "dramatic" emotional trappings many people assign to simple problem solving. Where a passionate Kakara makes a fiery speech about freedom and the will to triumph as she beats the arc villain, an organized Kakara does so with a minimum of fuss, viewing it less as an ideological victory and more as a goal achieved. That's not to say that Kakara experiences a net loss in emotions; she just parses them differently. Organized Kakara is just as satisfied with an obstacle surmounted as passionate Kakara is elated at a victory gained.

 

[fictionfan]

You are right.

[x] Yes. You can trust him with this. ("Recruit Sensei Carrick" option occurs next year; even if you don't take it, somebody will approach him to bring him in)

Also the man is a seer. Better to bring him in then let him find out on his own. I am a bit surprised he has not already watched the sealing happen.

[X] "Organized." This is not a matter of dramatics. You have your goals. What does it take to achieve them? All else falls away once you have determined that.

This does not mean she is less emotional. It means she is sane with them.

 

[Deathbybunnies]

Just a quick note to those voting to keep Sensei out of the conspiracy yet still tell him we fought against the Sealing to gain his favor: that has a massive chance to backfire. By telling him that we've known all along what the right thing to do was, but decided to do the easy thing instead, we are just as likely (if not more so) to lose his respect as to gain it.

Because let's face it... that is what we're seen to be doing. Now maybe if we hadn't told Sensei about Jaffur being awake, we might be able to get away with it. But Sensei knows that Jaffur is awake and imprisoned inside his own head.

Right now, he probably thinks of us as a repentitent child, a guilty girl who made a mistake and recently found out just how badly they screwed up. But if we reveal that we were against the Sealing from the very start? That raises the question of why we went along with the "official story."

And even though we could probably explain that away, that also raises the question of "so what are you doing now that you know?" And discounting the conspiracy, the answer to that is: nothing.

Which is probably not the right answer if you're trying to "earn his respect to get him to teach you new things."

Click to shrink...

What? So, we say that we've always been against the sealing, and in fact tried our best to stop it. What do you think he'll have expected us to do? Because there's two options here I can see - "be stuck doing nothing, because you're only the Scion and can't go against your Lord, you're not strong enough for that" or "begin a grand conspiracy of actual treason". There aren't any other real courses of action I can see, so if we don't admit to one - and it's perfectly reasonable to not have planned out a treasonous conspiracy from the age of 8, doing so is actually really weird - then it's perfectly reasonable for us to have been stuck, not sure of what we actually can do. It doesn't imply a moral failing on our part.

It represents Kakara shifting to a more clinical or analytical way of viewing the world. She knows what she wants to achieve. Anything in the way of that is simply a problem to be resolved, be that an army, social pressure, or peer pressure. In many ways it's the opposite of "Passionate." An organized Kakara is a Kakara that is vaguely impatient with the "dramatic" emotional trappings many people assign to simple problem solving. Where a passionate Kakara makes a fiery speech about freedom and the will to triumph as she beats the arc villain, an organized Kakara does so with a minimum of fuss, viewing it less as an ideological victory and more as a goal achieved. That's not to say that Kakara experiences a net loss in emotions; she just parses them differently. Organized Kakara is just as satisfied with a goal surmounted as passionate Kakara is elated at a victory gained.

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Does that mean we can't make a passionate, fiery speech whilst defeating the arc villain, if only for the benefit of others who might be emboldened and think better of us for it? It would be a shame to lose the great oratory skills that won us the victory with the Faith.

 

[XkaliburRage]

[X] "Passionate."

Full shonen, let's go!

 

[Aranfan]

[x] Yes. You can trust him with this. ("Recruit Sensei Carrick" option occurs next year; even if you don't take it, somebody will approach him to bring him in)
[X]Passionate

 

[fictionfan]

Does that mean we can't make a passionate, fiery speech whilst defeating the arc villain, if only for the benefit of others who might be emboldened and think better of us for it? It would be a shame to lose the great oratory skills that won us the victory with the Faith.

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She can, but instead of talking about friendship she will tell the villain why his ideas or methods are flawed. Or the reasons his goals are incompatible with her own. Still a firey speech, just more organized.

 

[KaintukeeBob]

[X] Yes. You can trust him with this. ("Recruit Sensei Carrick" option occurs next year; even if you don't take it, somebody will approach him to bring him in)
[X]Passionate

 

[Aranfan]

Organized also meshes with oddball a lot worse than passionate does.

 

[PoptartProdigy]

Does that mean we can't make a passionate, fiery speech whilst defeating the arc villain, if only for the benefit of others who might be emboldened and think better of us for it? It would be a shame to lose the great oratory skills that won us the victory with the Faith.

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You absolutely can, for a variety of reasons. It's just not your first inclination.

 

[fictionfan]

Organized also meshes with oddball a lot worse than passionate does.

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Organization does not preclude thinking outside the box. Like how we defused tensions with Radish. That was simply straight forward and cut through the drama.

 

[anailater]

[x] Yes. You can trust him with this. ("Recruit Sensei Carrick" option occurs next year; even if you don't take it, somebody will approach him to bring him in)
[X]Passionate

 

[fictionfan]

I wanted rationalist to get the advantages of both Organized and Passionate.

 

[KnightDisciple]

@PoptartProdigy , let me know if this works.

[] "Hopeful" : Above all things, Kakara hopes and believes in making tomorrow better than today. All of the political effort, all the training, everything, it's not just about righting past wrongs, but about making things in the future better. Kakara believes this is possible. She holds onto that hope, uses it as the core of her drive to change herself and others. Not to mold them or force them or beat them down, but to lift them up, to perceive and strive for the hope that anyone can be better. Grandpa Gohan didn't have much hope for Jaffur, but he admitted he was wrong. Maybe what the Exiles need now is some Hope, a vision to be stirred toward.

 

[Deathbybunnies]

That all makes sense - I'll change my vote to Organised then. I actually think it would have some pretty positive synergy with Oddball - there's nothing more dangerous than someone who can effectively plan and consider the advantages of routes no-one else would think to take.

I wanted rationalist to get the advantages of both Organized and Passionate.

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Given that it's an endgame trait on a different tree, there's every chance it does.

 

[fictionfan]

Also Inquisitive, Decisive, Driven, Inquisitive, Level-Headed and Mature.

To me all those traits scream Rationalist. I hope that Organised can develop into it.

 

[Deathbybunnies]

@PoptartProdigy , let me know if this works.

[] "Hopeful" : Above all things, Kakara hopes and believes in making tomorrow better than today. All of the political effort, all the training, everything, it's not just about righting past wrongs, but about making things in the future better. Kakara believes this is possible. She holds onto that hope, uses it as the core of her drive to change herself and others. Not to mold them or force them or beat them down, but to lift them up, to perceive and strive for the hope that anyone can be better. Grandpa Gohan didn't have much hope for Jaffur, but he admitted he was wrong. Maybe what the Exiles need now is some Hope, a vision to be stirred toward.

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It's a good write-in, and an excellent description of what a Hopeful trait might accomplish. I'm not personally going to vote for it though - it has even more of what I see as the "excessively optimistic" drawbacks Passionate has (which makes sense, that's the focus of the trait!) with less of the energy. Obviously, since this is a "flavour" vote, it's a matter of personal preference.

 

[Langevin]

Great chapter. Surprised I hadn't thought about Yammar entering the conspiracy--it is obvious in retrospect. In-universe he's probably right to play it safe with Sensei, but his casual dismissal seems like such a narrative setup for Sensei turning out to be really useful. Going in-universe again, it could get him to give us extra Mind Projection training, advice for the breakout, random vision info--but I don't think those are actually worth the risk of busting the conspiracy.

I like Organized a fair bit, but I wish it had a little more color to it.

Kakara being passionate about her ideals is great, but as written the trait sounds pretty self-centered. It's not even indirectly tied to being a good person like Organized is, it's straight up "things that you want to experience or possess". More stuff like the Garenhuld II speech would be great, though.

@PoptartProdigy, how about:
[] "Ad Astra". Your ideal--of peace and happiness for the people around you, for Garenhuld, maybe even for the galaxy as a whole--isn't yet within your grasp. It's more like a distant star, burning so far away you can't feel its warmth. But you can still see it. And until you get there, you'll keep moving towards that guiding light.

Driven and a little coldly focused, but towards this specific ideal.

 

[fictionfan]

That all makes sense - I'll change my vote to Organised then. I actually think it would have some pretty positive synergy with Oddball - there's nothing more dangerous than someone who can effectively plan and consider the advantages of routes no-one else would think to take.

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Also consider how we got the oddball trait. The reasons for our actions made sense. We were happy for Jaffer becoming a super Saiyan. We were also hungry both of those things had synergy so we attempted to organize a fest.

 

[Deathbybunnies]

[] "Ad Astra". Your ideal--of peace and happiness for the people around you, for Garenhuld, maybe even for the galaxy as a whole--isn't yet within your grasp. It's more like a distant star, burning so far away you can't feel its warmth. But you can still see it. And until you get there, you'll keep moving towards that guiding light.

Driven and a little coldly focused, but towards this specific ideal.

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I like this one, but it seems more like what you'd get if you crossed Pacifist and Driven, rather than a pure Driven development?

 

[KnightDisciple]

It's a good write-in, and an excellent description of what a Hopeful trait might accomplish. I'm not personally going to vote for it though - it has even more of what I see as the "excessively optimistic" drawbacks Passionate has (which makes sense, that's the focus of the trait!) with less of the energy. Obviously, since this is a "flavour" vote, it's a matter of personal preference.

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I could probably have written it at twice the length, if I didn't think Poptart would nix it at that point.

My ultimate aim, I am going to confess, is to go for a collection of traits that might evoke the personality of Optimus Prime, perhaps echoes of Gohan, Tavi Calderon (of Codex Alera), Luke Skywalker, perhaps even Jean-Luc Picard.
In short, someone who wishes for peaces, believes in building and working for a better tomorrow, believes in and hopes for the good in others...
But after a certain point, has no qualms fighting, albeit seeking the minimal death toll where possible, and the shortest overall fight time possible.