You're missing the point.

Losing Mirage IS the severe inconvenience.

I don't care necessarily that Doof is clean, it's more about losing Mirage.

Losing Mirage would be horrible for DEI.
And you 2 are operating under the assumption that the situation can be salvaged. It can't. The cat already is out of the bag. Backing dow is enough proof to make edna an enemy. Losing mirage would suck but she can be replaced.

And before you insist No the hipnosis plan is too risky.
 
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And you 2 are operating under the assumption that the situation can be salvaged. It can't. The cat already is out of the bag. Backing dow is enough proof to make edna an enemy. Losing mirage would suck but she can be replaced.
Ah, I see you failed to acknowledge the quote...

both times it was shared with you.

Are you going to continue to do that or am I going to have to break down the sentences word by word with a dictionary so you don't miss it next time?
 
The cat already is out of the bag
Technically it's not out of the bag just yet. The only person who's said anything is the clearly mad super villain losing what's left of her marbles. Clearly the exemplar of a great character witness

The situation isn't completely unsalvageable just yet, but admitting that Mirage was party to Syndrome's scheme at minimum is going to go over terribly with at least two people in this room, let alone move the situation from "possibly deniable" to "absolutely not"
 
Ah, I see you failed to acknowledge the quote...

both times it was shared with you.

Are you going to continue to do that or am I going to have to break down the sentences word by word with a dictionary so you don't miss it next time?
How about you not be an arrogant dick about it? You are the one insisting on the hipnosis plan claiming my point as foolishness in attempt to discredit it
 
[ ] Write-in: The Story of Buddy Pines
-[ ] Screw it. If your story is getting out, you'll tell it your way. Damn the consequences.
-[ ] "You mean my fling with Syndrome? The atrocities we committed together? The blood of hundreds I have on my hands and think of every. Single. Night?"
-[ ] Tell how Buddy Pines was brushed aside by Mr. Incredible, for reasons that made sense; he was a kid playing dress-up, not a hero. He was too full of himself, even then, to see it
-[ ] Tell how Buddy dedicated his life to revenge, to making the word "super" meaningless
-[ ] Tell how he won you over, with his honeyed words and promises, and how you and he led hundreds of desperate souls wanting to help to their deaths
-[ ] Tell how that culminated with his Syndrome Resistance, Mr. Incredible. How he was brought low and broken by you and him... and how he proved to you just how shallow it all was
--[ ] "Release me! NOW!" "Or what?" "I'll crush her." "That sounds a little dark for you... eh, go ahead."
-[ ] Speak of the guilt, the pain, the torture those crimes put you through every night... then look that bitch right in the eyes and say she's no different from Syndrome, because she will never understand what that's like. If anything, she's worse than he'll ever be with what she's done. So she can take her "holier-than-thou" schtick, shove it up her electric ass, and PISS. THE FUCK. OFF

this sounds great!
It doesn't even sound in character.

And I'm not talking about the British terminology.

Losing mirage would suck but she can be replaced.
The quote, from QM, literally says she is nearly indispensable.
 
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I'm kind of annoyed that Eve seemed to just Shrug off Lizzie's crit success.
A nigh triple-crit at that
Because that would destroy the narrative the OP had been working up to; so Evelyn got plot armor, and we now have to deal with this "do or die" choice, instead of the fight being over already.

Don't you just hate it when the OP ignores success in the name of narratives, but applies all failures when it benefits the narraitive?

{edit} It's my biggest reason why I don't vote in this quest. The OP is inconsistent with roll application. Well, less inconsistent, and more, what would create the most drama with the least amount of effort on the OPs part to drum up. But hey, as long as one can ignore the inconsistencies, it's still a moderately okay story that has huge plot holes glaring left right and center. And if it's good enough for Harry Potter, there's no reason it can't work here.

I mean, yeah, it takes some mental gymnastics to ignore said plot holes, and just enjoy the rest of the story... but on the other hand, glaringly obvious plot holes.

{Edit2} Well, unless the math that was shown, isn't the math that was used...
Oh. It was. I assume the halved Marcnificent Few bonus didn't apply because Mirage had removed herself from the field?
So, that may have negated the triple crit down to merely a single crit... and then we just didn't see the save will roll on Evelyn's part. But... until told otherwise, kinda have to assume that the shown math is appropriate, and thus was promptly ignored in favor of the narrative flow, thus granting Evelyn plot armor for that contest.
 
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-[] Write-In: Don't You Know Anything About SCIENCE?
--[] Come out of hiding to offer Evelyn another option. She's been turned into something she hates, but it's not too late to change that. Mention that Mirage let herself become something terrible in the past as well (without offering specifics obviously). Offer DEI's unmatched scientific prowess to reverse the process Sinatron forced on her if she'll step down. Suggest that the powers have made her hurt somebody she loves already, and if she doesn't take this chance to fix herself she's going to destroy everything she ever built or cared about.
--[] If Evelyn is unwilling to see reason, try to goad her into attacking by bringing accusing her of not caring about the possibly dead Winston (better than Evelyn standing and monologuing about Mirage's crimes) - if she takes a shot at anybody, the martials jump her and take her down as fast as possible.
--[] If she won't be reasoned with or goaded, go for the hypnosis.
 
The situation isn't completely unsalvageable just yet, but admitting that Mirage was party to Syndrome's scheme at minimum is going to go over terribly with at least two people in this room, let alone move the situation from "possibly deniable" to "absolutely not"
This is why we shouldn't back down. Edna will take as confirmation. Hipilnosis is a huge risk to DEI, so fighting on may be the best chance to convince the present POI to not becoming a enemy.
 
How about you not be an arrogant dick about it? You are the one insisting on the hipnosis plan claiming my point as foolishness in attempt to discredit it
Are you going to acknowledge the quote that was provided to you? Twice?

Now, let's see what Nystical and I actually said.

The best case scenario is that we lose Mirage if we fight but DEI's bodyguards are able to subdue Evelyn.

This is mass murder she would be implicated in. The cameras are rolling and having that spill would be horrible for DEI.

This is foolishness.
Here is my response to the idea of fighting. No where did I mention hypnosis- and you haven't even given any reason to believe that hypnosis is more risky than letting Evelyn tell the world that Mirage participated in genocide.

Hypnosis or pretend are the options we have for minimizing the damage to DEI.
Here I mentioned my preferred options because they minimized the risk to DEI. Using hypnosis is not my preferred option, but it is one I would rather pick than the guarantee of losing Mirage. Pretend, like Hypnosis minimizes the amount of people who will hear the confession.

Nystical has said very similar things. I would like it if you acknowledged that.
 
This is why we shouldn't back down. Edna will take as confirmation. Hipilnosis is a huge risk to DEI, so fighting on may be the best chance to convince the present POI to not becoming a enemy.
Fighting on is exposing it, damn the consequences. Said admittance is to assisting Syndrome, something the QM's already commented on as very serious. I don't want to lose Mirage, and Pretending to Agree is probably the option that at least gives us a chance to sucker punch her before she can say anything possibly incriminating that we can't deny.
 
Please do not break out the "this person is dumb" shade. For all intents and purposes We cannot get out of this..

Way too late for me to be making arguments... But this is a case of assumption now. Like a poison it will ruin Mirage's interpersonal relationships. Unless it gets lanced. But we can't stop the accusations at this point unless she dies, Edna Mode dies, and Hego dies. (The latter cause he is a hero at the end of the day, and so many dead does not paint a convincing picture of innocence.)
 
Because that would destroy the narrative the OP had been working up to; so Evelyn got plot armor, and we now have to deal with this "do or die" choice, instead of the fight being over already.

Don't you just hate it when the OP ignores success in the name of narratives, but applies all failures when it benefits the narraitive?

{edit} It's my biggest reason why I don't vote in this quest. The OP is inconsistent with roll application. Well, less inconsistent, and more, what would create the most drama with the least amount of effort on the OPs part to drum up. But hey, as long as one can ignore the inconsistencies, it's still a moderately okay story that has huge plot holes glaring left right and center. And if it's good enough for Harry Potter, there's no reason it can't work here.

I mean, yeah, it takes some mental gymnastics to ignore said plot holes, and just enjoy the rest of the story... but on the other hand, glaringly obvious plot holes.
What fucking...What plot holes?

And, uh, so we're clear guys, fighting on is exposing it. We'd need to do the sucker punch or hypnosis to keep this up without her saying shit.
 
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The quote, from QM, literally says she is nearly indispensable.
But its her job as an executive that is indispensable we can get other stewards.
I dim need to justify why hipnosis is a bad idea because people already did it for me, but in case you missed.
Failing on hypnosis may gave evelyn an out of it because she can verry well aledgely that she was being controlled and harming her brother shook her out of it. This would be a agravated disaster. Hipnosis is verrly much the high risk high reward option but is also is a suckers bet.

Pretending to retreat is atractive at first but if we end up subduing evelyn she would spill the beans anyways so the risk to mirage is the same, and since right now our martial score is like to be higher intrigue score in relation to her. Chosing to bite bullet is both narratively appropriate and the safest way to minimize the damage evelyn can do to the DEI.
 
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What fucking...What plot holes?

And, uh, so we're clear guys, fighting on is exposing it. We'd need to do the sucker punch or hypnosis to keep this up without her saying shit.
Hrm... then what term would be appropriate for describing the audience being aware of roll results not matching narrative causality? Because, we are talking about the inconsistency of roll results being applied depending on what the OP envisions the narrative of the moment to convey. Roll results that we, the audience are aware of, see first hand, and then promptly watch as said roll results get ignored for the sake of the narrative the OP has built. The only term I can think of to describe this phenomenon is "Plot Hole." Is there another?
 
-[] Write-In: Don't You Know Anything About SCIENCE?
--[] Come out of hiding to offer Evelyn another option. She's been turned into something she hates, but it's not too late to change that. Mention that Mirage let herself become something terrible in the past as well (without offering specifics obviously). Offer DEI's unmatched scientific prowess to reverse the process Sinatron forced on her if she'll step down. Suggest that the powers have made her hurt somebody she loves already, and if she doesn't take this chance to fix herself she's going to destroy everything she ever built or cared about.
--[] If Evelyn is unwilling to see reason, try to goad her into attacking by bringing accusing her of not caring about the possibly dead Winston (better than Evelyn standing and monologuing about Mirage's crimes) - if she takes a shot at anybody, the martials jump her and take her down as fast as possible.
--[] If she won't be reasoned with or goaded, go for the hypnosis.
Something like this might be doable with improvements.
 
Hrm... then what term would be appropriate for describing the audience being aware of roll results not matching narrative causality? Because, we are talking about the inconsistency of roll results being applied depending on what the OP envisions the narrative of the moment to convey. Roll results that we, the audience are aware of, see first hand, and then promptly watch as said roll results get ignored for the sake of the narrative the OP has built. The only term I can think of to describe this phenomenon is "Plot Hole." Is there another?
I mean...I don't think they're ignoring the roll results here. Evelyn is a King, she's not gonna go down easy.
 
Hrm... then what term would be appropriate for describing the audience being aware of roll results not matching narrative causality? Because, we are talking about the inconsistency of roll results being applied depending on what the OP envisions the narrative of the moment to convey. Roll results that we, the audience are aware of, see first hand, and then promptly watch as said roll results get ignored for the sake of the narrative the OP has built. The only term I can think of to describe this phenomenon is "Plot Hole." Is there another?
Mechanical-narrative discongruity? But I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to. If you mean Evelyn staying up so long, it's because she is a King. The system DVV normally runs on has kings literally be able to take more damage than non-Kings, regardless of any physical powers, because that's how they are. That's been carried over to here, and applies fairly uniformly.
 
I dim need to justify why hipnosis is a bad idea because people already did it for me, but in case you missed.
Failing on hypnosis may gave evelyn an out of it because she can verry well aledgely that she was being controlled and harming her brother shook her out of it. This would be a agravated disaster. Hipnosis is verrly much the high risk high reward option but is also is a suckers bet.

Pretending to retreat is atractive at first but if we end up subduing evelyn she would spill the beans anyways so the risk to mirage is the same, and since right now our martial score is like to be higher intrigue score in relation to her. Chosing to bite bullet is both narratively appropriate and the safest way to minimize the damage evelyn can do to the DEI.
We would be able to disprove that notion. Evelyn's labs would intact and Mezmerella is both a tech-cape and a hypnosis-super would know how to disprove it.

The point is making sure that her confession is out of this current field of battle. The longer we put it off the safer we are. The point in the trick is to subdue her before she can talk, and given the double critical failure she just ate that is something we can do.

There is nothing that you have said that is an effective argument for fighting. It's all nonsubstantial.
 
To the ones saying that it would be better to take control of the narrative inorder to spin it off as a redemption arc, how do you actually intend on doing so when the narrative at hand is Mirage having direct involvement in what essentially is a superhuman massacre, and in a nation that is on the cusp of repealing one of the greatest restrictions ever placed on Superhumans and Heroes no less?

Because, right now, from what I see the best case scenario is that we just lose Mirage, one of our best units, as she is either imprisoned or forced into hiding. Atleast then, most people won't target DEI for her employment.

However...A while back, I want to remind everyone that we have one enemy that could use even Mirage's employment as ammunition against us and even make it the worst case scenario: DEI essentially becomes an enemy to all good Supers and their allies. Inbetween, it becomes a stain on DEI and Supers in general will be far more reluctant to work or cooperate with us.

Who is that? Judge Doom.

Doom absolutely despises us for making our territory Toon-friendly, but for the duration of this quest he has also taken a considerable amount of attention in supporting the Repeal of the Act, even reached out to us to cooperate in that task...which we rejected for obvious reasons, but still technically a slight in Doom's eyes. In terms of the NPC Kings, I think Doom was the one who committed the most to the repeal (or atleast had the most crits in that field), and more importantly is someone the Super community would listen to. A few examples along are below:

Judge Doom:

[ ] Lobby[ing] against the SRA
DC 90
97+35+28+26+4=190
Critical Success

Cloverleaf Industries announced its public condemnation of the Superhero Registration Act to absolutely astonishing public approval. With Kronos Corporation gone and the new Olympia Corp poised for a wind change, politicians across the West came out and declared their intentions to repeal the act, something which will undoubtedly become a divisive issue in the upcoming election. This effort has set off a wave across the country among metahuman individuals, hero and villain alike, who publicly decried the act which had singlehandedly put a stop to the Golden Age.

[ ] Posthumously ruin Oliver Sansweet
DC 50
29+26+30+30(???)+6=116
Critical Success

Judge Doom has begun an extremely successful posthumous smear campaign on one Oliver Sansweet, said by many to be the man single-handedly responsible for ending the Golden Age and ushering in the SRA. Sansweet has been out of the public eye for decades now, but the recent defamation campaign has brought him back in the public consciousness as nothing more than a sniveling ambulance chaser and probably communist who should never have been saved from his attempted suicide by Mr. Incredible. This scathing rhetoric had the side effect of making Judge Doom look all the better in the eyes of superhero supporters.

and here's his original offer aswell as his response after not receiving a response:

[ ] Commend Doofenshmirtz for his pro-Super actions
DC 70
81+28+26+4=139
Spectacular Success

Judge Doom held a press conference in which he praised you for your pro-Super actions, commending you for finally seeing the light in the current political climate. "I am… pleased to see that Dr. Doofenshmirtz has come around to what truly matters in this day and age. The antiquated policies of the SRA will trouble us no longer, if our representatives in Washington are sympathetic to our plight. The… discrimination against superheroes will soon be an issue of the past. Given Doktor Doofenshmirtz's commendable efforts, I would therefore like to..."

[ ] Invite Doofenshmirtz to a collaboration
DC 80
62+28+26+4=120
Great Success

"Given that our views on the subject align, I am certain that the eccentric Dr. Doofenshmirtz would be more than willing to collaborate with Cloverleaf Industries on a series of projects to remind people of the glory of the Golden Age. I eagerly look forward to his response." Doom mentioned at a press conference, while staring unblinkingly into the camera the entire time.

[ ] Establish Indestructible Inc.
DC 120
1d100+36+27+4+20 (Cloverleaf Backing)=143
Decent Success

Judge Doom, utilizing a portion of Cloverleaf's pre-existing public works infrastructure, has established an organization dedicated to damage control and cleaning up after metahuman fights, in the interest of taking financial burdens off of superheroes. While the gesture is expected to cut into his bottom line, it has also engendered a good deal of respect from the metahuman community and its supporters. Doom said in a prepared and archetypically creepy press conference that "It pains me that the fickle Dr. Doofenshmirtz couldn't find it in his heart to assist in a charitable endeavor such as this. Alas, it seems as if the superhero community has moved… outside of his interests."

If this comes out, I am almost certain Doom will jump in on this to slander DEI and turn public opinion against us...and I also don't think he'll be the only one, but he's by far the one who can do the most damage.

If we want to prevent a truly disastrous PR scandal, we need to make sure Evelyn doesn't talk at all, because this doesn't seem to be something we can spin without losing a whole lot.
 
We would be able to disprove that notion. Evelyn's labs would intact and Mezmerella is both a tech-cape and a hypnosis-super would know how to disprove it.
How? The hipnosis faluire scenario implying in Evelyn winning, this. Failing so hard that gives her an out and a way to hurt the DEI. If we pull it off great ,but the cost of fucking it up is why i called it too risky since the chances aren't in our favor because circuit breaker is OP as hell.
 
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I mean...I don't think they're ignoring the roll results here. Evelyn is a King, she's not gonna go down easy.
Mechanical-narrative discongruity? But I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to. If you mean Evelyn staying up so long, it's because she is a King. The system DVV normally runs on has kings literally be able to take more damage than non-Kings, regardless of any physical powers, because that's how they are. That's been carried over to here, and applies fairly uniformly.
Ah, and that would be where I, and a few others here apparently, were left confused. Personally, I know exactly jack and {feces} about DVV, so would not have had any knowledge about this King system. As those of us that aren't familiar with DVV have had no prior inkling to its presence, that I can discern at least; and as such neither I, nor at least two others, knew why Evelyn managed to just tank a triple crit and basically flatulated in Lizzy's direction to swipe away her attack with a "begone piss ant peasant."

*sighs* of course, this now means either just assuming all "ineffectual success rolls" are "DVV required knowledge. LOL!" or putting up with trying to figure out a campaign system from its source material... (ugh, Table Top RPGs... mad props to those with patience, I aren't one of ya.)
 
How? The hipnosis faluire scenario implying in Evelyn winning, this. Failing so hard that gives her an out and a way to hurt the DEI. If we pull it off great ,but the cost of fucking it up is why i called it too risky.
Evelyn has her own lab dedicated to the Screenslaver project. It is something that would come up in an investigation. Mezmerella had developed her hypnosis on her own and would be able to prove it.

The fact that she'd immediately begun to skim some money off the top for a 'side project', a bit of standard-grade embezzlement her sweet know-nothing of a brother didn't pick up on...

She really shouldn't have relied on those 'Screenslavers' so heavily when setting up her 'off the books' lab. You can't hypnotize circuits.
I notice that this is not an argument against trying to trick her, are you conceding on that or not?
 
Evelyn has her own lab dedicated to the Screenslaver project. It is something that would come up in an investigation. Mezmerella had developed her hypnosis on her own and would be able to prove it.
Again the hipnosis faliure scenario have evelyn winning, her screeslaver tech off the books, first thing she would do would be burn the secret stash of evidence.
 
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