did ya really need to come at me like that. Maybe dial back the hate?

I wasn´t really "coming at you"...just pointing out that comparing Doof to the T`au is...a bit off, to say the least.

I don´t really *hate* them like many other 40k fans, but I do find them rather ill-fitting in 40k both mentally and aesthetically.

Also, if you wanna compare Doof to any polity in 40k, then I´d say he fits the Interex the most

 
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If we want to build Dimension-inator this turn we can put Ludivine or Lizzie on it, Wendy on AI and Jumba on personal action. I don't think that hiding on earth will help us, plus it's not a fact that we immediately will drop into middle of Toffee zone. More likely it will take multiple turns to investigate available Metaworld territory so it's better to start early. And it does not matter what Toffee actual martial if we not even meet with his forces.
 
Yes, and Toffee has shown exponentially more capable feats than Khan. Conquering multiple planets over the span of three or so years is a much, much, much greater feat than what Khan did in 41 or so years.
Toffee didn't conquer multiple planets while Genghis Khan didn't because Toffee is personally that much better at conquering than Genghis Khan. Genghis Khan literally couldn't conquer multiple planets because dimensional scissors don't exist in real life, and all his forces were only human. Toffee, between being an embodiment of magic and having monsters on his side that scale up to kaiju, seems to me to be more analogous to a Pacific Island warlord who got his hands on gunpowder before his neighbors. That's still a bad thing because we don't have gunpowder in this analogy, but he isn't (his empire's land area / Mongolian empire's land area) times better at strategy than Genghis Khan.
 
Could be the Dream Queen watching for us picking up the Yang Talisman?
Sadly, we don't even know enough to speculate.
Holy overestimation. Keep in mind, like us, he presumably has hero units to call upon. He wasn't just doing all this shit personally. I mean, even us, Doofenshmirtz, have only 38 Learning, and we make the laws of physics our servant on a daily basis. I'd be surprised if he has over 70.
There does seem to be something wonky in how Martial-Intrigue scale compared to Stewardship-Learning. Not underestimating Shego and Xanatos, because they do have impressive feats, but I'd argue that Glomgolg, the richest Duck in the world, probably the shrewdest busunessperson in the setting, and owning levels of money that are canonically "Yes", rivals them for competence in his chosen field. However, he only has Stewardship in the low 40s, while they are in the 70s range.

Doofenshmirtz routinely makes machines that destroy conceptual ideas in a lazy afternoon, and canonically invented both dimensional and time travel, and his Learning is only 38. There isn't much more "up" to go from there, you know? What would somebody with Learning 70 look like, perfect omniscience?
 
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Huh. From the perspective of a hypothetical Toffee negaverse, the fact that toon-friendly Dr. Doof has in his employ Lord Feldrake, presumably possessing the body of some magic-sensitive girl, would be very believable.
Doof is one if not the nicest king, most of his public actions so far has been to make his territory a better place to live and pro-rights not only for toons but capes as well.

Him looking the other way while Feldrake has taken over some poor girl body as his own would probably look OOC.

On the other hand the Toffee negaverse freaking out about a potential Feldrake possesed Xandra/Star on their way to lead a supernatural army in Mewni sounds like fun.
 
I wasn´t really "coming at you"...just pointing out that comparing Doof to the T`au is...a bit off, to say the least.

I don´t really *hate* them like many other 40k fans, but I do find them rather ill-fitting in 40k both mentally and aesthetically.

Also, if you wanna compare Doof to any polity in 40k, then I´d say he fits the Interex the most


You're missing the point I never compared their policies as the same only the situation I was laying out.

If you prefer I can use the rebels and the Galactic Empire as a similar example that isn't linked to any moral concerns .

my point had nothing to do with Policy but strategy.explaining why a on paper much larger empire cannot crush a far weaker empire.

to use this new metaphor The Empire is also fighting the Vong. They could absolutely crush the Rebels. But doing so would leave many worlds free to rebel and weaken their efforts against the Vong. So they have to content themselves with using small scale formations (for them) . Which allows the Rebels with some luck to Grow and find weak spots to strike for massive damage.

which is why I have an issue with people saying we shouldn't expand.

in this metaphor that's like only having a single dissenting planet sure you can fortify it but that doesn't increase your chances of an actual Victory
 
Alright, so what do people think we should look for in Stewardship hires? Should we look for someone like a qualified architect of villain lairs, a wannabe-CEO, maybe a professional investor? We have a nice range of Martial and Learning heroes, so it might be a good idea to.think about what's we're looking for in Stewardship ones.
 
Alright, so what do people think we should look for in Stewardship hires? Should we look for someone like a qualified architect of villain lairs, a wannabe-CEO, maybe a professional investor? We have a nice range of Martial and Learning heroes, so it might be a good idea to.think about what's we're looking for in Stewardship ones.
You should check the latest turn results. That's exactly what we did.
 
Holy overestimation. Keep in mind, like us, he presumably has hero units to call upon. I'd be surprised if he has over 70.
Of course he has hero units to call upon. I don't believe that 70 Martial portrays how far above he is than Shego in combat and warfare. Shego has 68 Martial and is decidedly mortal.

Toffee isn't bound by petty rules like dying when plasma touches your brain matter. Toffee has just shown better capability for me to believe that he as just two more Martial than Shego.

Hobbit, bear in mind that this is the guy who somehow failed to take over a medieval fantasy kingdoms with an army of immortal regenerating supersoldiers. This is basically death note level of "how do you lose an unlosable matchup," and it happened solely due to his poor decisions as a commander; to press them with no hope of surrender but not immediately eliminate them, allowing the queen both the time and the incentive to go and pick up forbidden magics, and then, uh, everything that came after. It's a good story beat, yes, but not good strategy. Occam's Razor suggests, then, that it probably wasn't superior tactical and strategic genius that put him in the position he is to today, but rather something like taking his overwhelming personal power and then snowballing over a bunch of irrelevant worlds like the 7D until he has the forces to crack harder nuts.
A lot of his issues came from the fact that the Butterfly family held a monopoly over magic. Magic is allowed the Mewmans to defeat the monsters. He certainly does suffer from Disney Villain Syndrome. But it has been at least 20 years since that happened and Toffee has shown greater capability since then. Also, while his behavior was rather strange, Toffee grew up his entire life knowing that he was basically immortal. For Moon to permanently sever his finger off would have been shocking for anyone. He's had time to grow and adapt. If you were talking about his second bid, I don't think he had an army of Septarians?

I'm not sure we're going to get anywhere here. Agree to disagree?
 
Sadly, we don't even know enough to speculate.

There does seem to be something wonky in how Martial-Intrigue scale compared to Stewardship-Learning. Not underestimating Shego and Xanatos, because they do have impressive feats, but I'd argue that Glomgolg, the richest Duck in the world, probably the shrewdest busunessperson in the setting, and owning levels of money that are canonically "Yes", rivals them for competence in his chosen field. However, he only has Stewardship in the low 40s, while they are in the 70s range.

Doofenshmirtz routinely makes machines that destroy conceptual ideas in a lazy afternoon, and canonically invented both dimensional and time travel, and his Learning is only 38. There isn't much more "up" to go from there, you know? What would somebody with Learning 70 look like, perfect omniscience?
I mean, yes. That is on the scale. 70 is "basically omniscient".
 
You should check the latest turn results. That's exactly what we did.
well yes, but I read through the quest and the first time we did a major recruitment push we wound up being given 6 options we had to choose between and Technor. I'm thinking we should maybe try to figure out what we want and what we're willing to work with in case something like that happens again.
 
If we want to build Dimension-inator this turn we can put Ludivine or Lizzie on it, Wendy on AI and Jumba on personal action. I don't think that hiding on earth will help us, plus it's not a fact that we immediately will drop into middle of Toffee zone. More likely it will take multiple turns to investigate available Metaworld territory so it's better to start early. And it does not matter what Toffee actual martial if we not even meet with his forces.
Ludivine's probably our best bet, Wendy with AI and maybe have Lizzie and Jumba work together for super-ants?

If we can get a Dimension-inator up and running to somewhere unimportant but with plenty of space, we could just throw Normbots and ants at the goal of terraforming/building the area up for a hidden base of operations.

Honestly, getting Jumba into the occult would help a lot for dealing with Toffee, given how many of his experiments are meant for large-scale chaos and evil. Let him try his hand at a magical monstrosity, see where that goes, then dump even more of them out into Toffee's realms.
 
Alright, so what do people think we should look for in Stewardship hires? Should we look for someone like a qualified architect of villain lairs, a wannabe-CEO, maybe a professional investor? We have a nice range of Martial and Learning heroes, so it might be a good idea to.think about what's we're looking for in Stewardship ones.
Let's see what's available first.

I've looked into disney businessmen and haven't found anything THAT impressive, aside from a Kim Possible villain-adjacent businessman that outsourced henchmen and lairs to villains as his business model, so I really don't even know who to wish for.

That said, I'm sure the QM squad will get us some suitably impressive options, so we'll just have to wait and see.
 
Of course he has hero units to call upon. I don't believe that 70 Martial portrays how far above he is than Shego in combat and warfare. Shego has 68 Martial and is decidedly mortal.

Toffee isn't bound by petty rules like dying when plasma touches your brain matter. Toffee has just shown better capability for me to believe that he as just two more Martial than Shego.


A lot of his issues came from the fact that the Butterfly family held a monopoly over magic. Magic is allowed the Mewmans to defeat the monsters. He certainly does suffer from Disney Villain Syndrome. But it has been at least 20 years since that happened and Toffee has shown greater capability since then. Also, while his behavior was rather strange, Toffee grew up his entire life knowing that he was basically immortal. For Moon to permanently sever his finger off would have been shocking for anyone. He's had time to grow and adapt. If you were talking about his second bid, I don't think he had an army of Septarians?

I'm not sure we're going to get anywhere here. Agree to disagree?

Neither is Max Whom has the same level of " a fucking Star could go off in my face and I'd be mildly inconvienced" and yet Max has a Martial of fucking 8.

being magically powerful does not make one a milatary genius
 
Ludivine's probably our best bet, Wendy with AI and maybe have Lizzie and Jumba work together for super-ants?

If we can get a Dimension-inator up and running to somewhere unimportant but with plenty of space, we could just throw Normbots and ants at the goal of terraforming/building the area up for a hidden base of operations.

Honestly, getting Jumba into the occult would help a lot for dealing with Toffee, given how many of his experiments are meant for large-scale chaos and evil. Let him try his hand at a magical monstrosity, see where that goes, then dump even more of them out into Toffee's realms.
Ludvine is on a Power armor. Doof is doing the heavy lifting on the Inator project.
 
Neither is Dennis. That's trait material, not stat material.
Why wouldn't invulnerability play a role in every toon's Martial stat? Hell, it's directly mentioned in two of our Toon hero's stats!

Martial: 21 (Goofy has a powerful but well concealed temper, and being a Toon means he can take incredible amounts of punishment and come back swinging. Just don't put him in too many fights or he might get upset. He's a big softie at heart.)

Martial: 17 (Thanks to Temujin's training, Dennis has greatly improved his combat efficiency! He's developed a style called 'Kung Fool' that uses a Toon's inborn resiliency to great effect.)

Neither is Max Whom has the same level of " a fucking Star could go off in my face and I'd be mildly inconvienced" and yet Max has a Martial of fucking 8.

being magically powerful does not make one a milatary genius
I mean, I doubt that Toffee would be all that inconvenienced by a star, unless good ol' ROB forced the situation. Unless you are talking about Star Butterfly, you did capitalize the s, so it is hard to tell.

Also, Max does not have much martial experience at all. Him not having high Martial makes a ton of sense. Toffee has both resilience and experience and fuck you magic to back him up.
Martial: 8 (Max has some degree of resiliency from technically being a toon, but he shuns most Toon-y mannerisms and has never had combat training.)
Oh, look. Another Martial stat where resilience is mentioned as a reason for it being that number!

Wait... Why is toffe playing ball if he is so deadly? Is he playing the world lije he did with ludo?
Toffee has to deal with Phobos. Xanay mentioned it a while back. Also there was the Interlude where Toffee discovered the source of Mewmans and he mentioned that King Phobos had directly attacked him. The reason why he is on Earth is that Star Butterfly has the potential to be an issue and he knows that Star is on Earth, or she has at least been on Earth.

"Ah." Xanatos replies. "Yes. The majority of Toffee's current attention is taken up by another despot fighting across the planes, one who seems diametrically opposed to him. We should be thankful; there are entire planets' worth of resources currently not being marshalled against us primarily due to greater concerns."

Edit: Alright, I am willing to concede triple-digit Martial, but I do not believe that 70 Martial is quite enough to emphasise how experienced he is and what sort of advantages the fact that he is a septarian offers him.
 
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Why wouldn't invulnerability play a role in every toon's Martial stat? Hell, it's directly mentioned in two of our Toon hero's stats!




I mean, I doubt that Toffee would be all that inconvenienced by a star, unless good ol' ROB forced the situation. Unless you are talking about Star Butterfly, you did capitalize the s, so it is hard to tell.

Also, Max does not have much martial experience at all. He doesn't know

Oh, look. Another Martial stat where resilience is mentioned as a reason for it being that number!


Toffee has to deal with Phobos. Xanay mentioned it a while back. Also there was the Interlude where Toffee discovered the source of Mewmans and he mentioned that King Phobos had directly attacked him. The reason why he is on Earth is that Star Butterfly has the potential to be an issue and he knows that Star is on Earth, or she has at least been on Earth.



Edit: Alright, I am willing to concede triple-digit Martial, but I do not believe that 70 Martial is quite enough to emphasise how good he is and what sort of advantages the fact that he is a septarian offers him.

yes he has resilience... that helps him direct an army how?
 
I mean, yes. That is on the scale. 70 is "basically omniscient".
Wait, there's an actual scale that I can go look at? Also, it feels weird that perfect omniscience would be at 70 in the scale, shouldn't it be at 100? Unless the scale somehow caps at 72 and Xanatos is at Intrigue: Max?

But then, Xanatos' Intrigue ability, while impressibe, could in no way match omniscience, mostly because omniscience also means perfect Intrigue, which should logically be higher than 72. Anyways, that's what I was trying to ilustrate, the scale is weird. Maybe that's to stop some really weird stuff from mechanically happening, I don't know.
 
So we are playing Sun Tzu with toffe?, Because the guy is practiacally here Now, and he is just waiting for the right chance to finish us?

Then we shall prepare more, i say we should make Some Xanathos gambits without Xanatos, in case we lose territory and we need to run somewhere... I don't like to say this but space is looking more beatiful any second.... I mean its going to come with its problems, but hey we can hope the dimensional conquerors destroy themselves fighting the space conquerors. Of course as Plan Z
 
So we are playing Sun Tzu with toffe?, Because the guy is practiacally here Now, and he is just waiting for the right chance to finish us?

Then we shall prepare more, i say we should make Some Xanathos gambits without Xanatos, in case we lose territory and we need to run somewhere... I don't like to say this but space is looking more beatiful any second.... I mean its going to come with its problems, but hey we can hope the dimensional conquerors destroy themselves fighting the space conquerors. Of course as Plan Z
Running from Toffee is kinda useless, he can teleport anywhere. Our two options are "keep our heads low until we are ready to fight", or "stand and fight or be destroyed".
 
well yes, but I read through the quest and the first time we did a major recruitment push we wound up being given 6 options we had to choose between and Technor. I'm thinking we should maybe try to figure out what we want and what we're willing to work with in case something like that happens again.
I meant this...
Recruit New Employees (Wile+SAU)
DC 55 (Reduced by XP)
92+17+24+22+4+5=164
Critical Success
We have new hero units to be recruited in an upcoming interlude. They have a focus in stewardship and learning.
 
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