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DoofQuest- a Disney Villains Victorious CK2-Style Quest

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woweed said:
Basically, I highly doubt he's actually completely invincible. He's no cakewalk, but he doesn't have fucking 3 digit Martial, jesus.
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woweed said:
That is true. I really just thought MH was getting a bit overly-hyperbolic. I could see him having an effective 3-digit Occult/Martial, in the same way Xanatos has an effective 3-digit Inrigue.
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We could beat Toffee if a fair amount of Earth's Kings through their resources into the ring and contributed to helping him fuck off. The easiest way to kill Toffee would probably be to purify the Realm of Magic, like in canon. Though I highly doubt that it would go that well.

I never said that Toffee had three-digit Occult, I said that I would not be surprised if he had three-digit Martial. I specifically mentioned more than 72 Occult, in fact. Remember, he is the equal of a guy who treats the boundaries between dimensions as more of a suggestion. That is ludicrously beyond Puck 55 Occult.

In the multiverse, incidents like the Cleaving from SvtFoE finale are fairly common occurrences.

Edit: That last statement is based off of the Phobos KLR from the base Gridlocked game.

Land - Metaworld

With so many worlds to conquer and drain of magical energy, Phobos spread his enchanted bramble to ensnare each new acquisition into a singular, patchwork plane named Metaworld. Centered around the gothic state of Meridian, Metaworld is a disparate realm in which the red canyons of one world end where the purple jungles of another world begin. The omnipresent bramble connected to Phobos' life force bleeds energy from Metaworld and draws it to his castle at the dark and stormy center, lending them a bleached appearance as their life fades to dust. Meridian is the militarized capital of Metaworld, a feudal police state from which Phobos rules on high, unseen. The less developed parts of Metaworld are home to rebels, scoundrels, and monsters, while the outer ring worlds are unstable and easier to access until the bramble covers them completely
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It is possible that MiH didn't use this for DoofQuest, but this should be a good thing to judge how little threat we pose to Toffee and Phobos, no?
 
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MrHobbit said:
We could beat Toffee if a fair amount of Earth's Kings through their resources into the ring and contributed to helping him fuck off. The easiest way to kill Toffee would be to purify the Realm of Magic, like in canon. Though I highly doubt that it would go that well.

I never said that Toffee had three-digit Occult, I said that I would not be surprised if he had three-digit Martial. I specifically mentioned more than 72 Occult, in fact. Remember, he is the equal of a guy who treats the boundaries between dimensions as more of a suggestion. That is ludicrously beyond Puck 55 Occult.

In the multiverse, incidents like the Cleaving from SvtFoE finale are fairly common occurrences.
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I'd bet his Martial's on par with Khan, since that seems to basically be who he was, but with a 72-ish Occult, and the trait Janna has that lets him substitute one for the other. He also probably has a trait similar to what Toons have, that allows him to take dozens of Martial failures unaffected.
 
TempestK said:
Except Demona was here. My guess is that she works for Thailog; or for Phobos. Personally I don't think she's with Toffee.
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Molly is almost certainly working for Toffee, since nobody in the magic community would know or care who Heinz Doofenshmirtz was or what he bought. Demona is probably running on her own, possibly with allies.

TempestK said:
No one is saying he's invincible. We're saying that right now, we do not want to poke the dragon in the eye with a pointy stick.
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Not even pointy. Our stick is dull.
 
Huh. From the perspective of a hypothetical Toffee negaverse, the fact that toon-friendly Dr. Doof has in his employ Lord Feldrake, presumably possessing the body of some magic-sensitive girl, would be very believable.
 
Inserted tally:
Adhoc vote count started by Lord Ultimus on Oct 1, 2020 at 1:06 PM, finished with 258 posts and 77 votes.
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TempestK said:
Okay, this? Don't do this man. Don't make authoritative statements like that when you have no actual evidence to back it up, and especially when you're not the QM or part of his team.
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That's true enough, but there is a fair amount of reason to think that MiH is going with Phobos stitching worlds together in his Metaworld. It's a big thing in the base game KLR and Magica's statement would be strange if it wasn't the case.

Made in Heaven said:
While I may not have regular access to the wide wide Metaworld of the multiverse, we do get peculiar items from time to time.
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Regardless, I'll edit the statement to be more precise.

woweed said:
I'd bet his Martial's on par with Khan, since that seems to basically be who he was, but with a 72-ish Occult, and the trait Janna has that lets him substitute one for the other. He also probably has a trait similar to what Toons have, that allows him to take dozens of Martial failures unaffected.
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I, don't think you understand the scale of what I am talking about. Khan died when he was 65 years old and he started his wars around 14 or so. That is 51 years of experience. Khan also a fair amount of the Eurasian continent.

Toffee has decades of experience in warfare, has regeneration to the point that bodily harm is more or less irrelevant, and has conquered a total area that adds up to multiple planets.

They are not in the same weight class, at all.

weredrago2 said:
Nothing about that finale was common. The final episode managed to be so bad nobody left happy and it undermined the entire series.

They had to make a tweet letting people know the laser puppies survived the magic genocide!
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Ahh, the classic There is no Live-action Avatar Movie in Ba Sing Se trick! I approve!
 
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MrHobbit said:
That's true enough, but there is a fair amount of reason to think that MiH is going with Phobos stitching worlds together in his Metaworld. It's a big thing in the base game KLR and Magica's statement would be strange if it wasn't the case.
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That doesn't make it common, it just means that Phobos has committed multiple atrocities. Also doesn't he just suck all the magic out of the worlds?
 
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Lab_Accident said:
Molly is almost certainly working for Toffee, since nobody in the magic community would know or care who Heinz Doofenshmirtz was or what he bought.
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Could be the Dream Queen watching for us picking up the Yang Talisman?
MrHobbit said:
I, don't think you understand the scale of what I am talking about. Khan died when he was 65 years old and he started his wars around 14 or so. That is 51 years of experience. Khan also a fair amount of the Eurasian continent.

Toffee has centuries of experience in warfare, has regeneration to the point that bodily harm is more or less irrelevant, and has conquered a total area that adds up to multiple planets.
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People don't scale linearly like that, though.
 
TheGleeman said:
Do not speak ill of the Discord, for its blessedness is sacrosanct.

Jokings aside, we need to use what we have in terms of quotes.



We are a slavemongering, expansionist empire of faux-Confucianist hypocrites that with their brainwashing, labor camps and forced sterilisations would be the Big Bad of any normal and only count as "Good Guys" in-universe because their opposition is *Even worse*?
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did ya really need to come at me like that. Maybe dial back the hate?
MrHobbit said:
Huh, I didn't think that he said it over here. So here are the thread quotes.





Toffee has absorbed the entirety of the Realm of Magic and is now waging war across the entire multiverse. If we start pushing on a small scale he will simply grind us into oblivion. He has more than the resources to spare for that.

Also, remember how Shego has 68 Martial thanks to years of combat experience and plasma hands? Toffee has hundreds of years of combat experience and complete immortality. Oh, and he absorbed the entirety of the Realm of Magic. I wouldn't be surprised if he had triple digit Martial.

I perfectly understand that you know that we can't take Toffee out. All of the other Kings combined are not equal to a thousand times the might of the US military. Hell, MiH was probably lowballing that.

It is fucking stupid to take it this early. First of all, we don't have any scientists suited for it. Jumba won't be available this turn because of his Hunger for Science. The other Learning option is going to be taken up by AI research. As for LOVEMUFFIN?



Second of all, we don't really need to. We don't have the resources to take advantage of it and we have several Martial options to take before we risk stuff like that.
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So your advice is to not expand not prepare and hope and pray that he doesn't kill us all despite him really wanting to kill us all. That doesn't strike me as a valid long term strategy.

we have to expand we have to be ready to act on their stage otherwise they'll step on us eventually. He already knows we know about him. That shiphas sailed so we need to get our shit in order put on our big bad pants and get to work expanding our power base asquickly as possible. Delaying only increases the odds of being stepped on.

The key is we expand enough to make us if not a theart then more trouble then we are worth. Again Like the Tau. The Imperium could crush the Tau easily... if they weren't already super busy and the Tau can punch well above their weight class ( a lot like we can)

We're not poking the lizard we are fashioning a big enough stick to poke the lizard so that he thinks twice before trying to step on us risking an injury that lets his foe hit him a lot harder.
 
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TempestK said:
That doesn't make it common, it just means that Phobos has committed multiple atrocities. Also doesn't he just suck all the magic out of the worlds?
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He does suck all the magic out of the worlds, but he breaks down dimensional barriers to make it easier.

Land - Metaworld

With so many worlds to conquer and drain of magical energy, Phobos spread his enchanted bramble to ensnare each new acquisition into a singular, patchwork plane named Metaworld. Centered around the gothic state of Meridian, Metaworld is a disparate realm in which the red canyons of one world end where the purple jungles of another world begin. The omnipresent bramble connected to Phobos' life force bleeds energy from Metaworld and draws it to his castle at the dark and stormy center, lending them a bleached appearance as their life fades to dust. Meridian is the militarized capital of Metaworld, a feudal police state from which Phobos rules on high, unseen. The less developed parts of Metaworld are home to rebels, scoundrels, and monsters, while the outer ring worlds are unstable and easier to access until the bramble covers them completely
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Torgamous said:
People don't scale linearly like that, though.
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Yes, and Toffee has shown exponentially more capable feats than Khan. Conquering multiple planets over the span of three or so years is a much, much, much greater feat than what Khan did in 41 or so years.

weredrago2 said:
Excuse me? I was just talking about how catastrophic the S4 finale was.
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Is this a continuation of the joke? As in refusing to acknowledge it's existence? I was using the Cleaving to describe how Phobos sucks up all the magic from his territories as described in his KLR, which may or may not be canon for this particular quest.
 
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MrHobbit said:
That's true enough, but there is a fair amount of reason to think that MiH is going with Phobos stitching worlds together in his Metaworld. It's a big thing in the base game KLR and Magica's statement would be strange if it wasn't the case.


Regardless, I'll edit the statement to be more precise.


I, don't think you understand the scale of what I am talking about. Khan died when he was 65 years old and he started his wars around 14 or so. That is 51 years of experience. Khan also a fair amount of the Eurasian continent.

Toffee has centuries of experience in warfare, has regeneration to the point that bodily harm is more or less irrelevant, and has conquered a total area that adds up to multiple planets.

They are not in the same weight class, at all.


Ahh, the classic There is no Live-action Avatar Movie in Ba Sing Se trick! I approve!
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OK, where are you getting "centuries" from? He was a general/prince at the time he killed Star's grandmother and started his crusade, and appears to have been a teenager, judging by the time-travel we saw in a later episode. I mean, yes, he has experience in interdimensional warfare, now, but I don't think it's centuries. I doubt it's been decades. Hell, I doubt it's been DECADE.
 
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woweed said:
OK, where are you getting "centuries" from? He was a general/prince at the time he killed Star's grandmother and started his crusade, and appears to have been a teenager, judging by the time-travel we saw in a later episode. I mean, yes, he has experience in interdimensional warfare, now, but I don't think it's centuries. I doubt it's been decades. Hell, I doubt it's been DECADE.
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Hmm, I think it may have been the whole time travel lesson where Glossaryck was teaching Meteora magic, which provoked Toffee into hating magic? I think I conflated the Mewman colonization and the Toffee magic hating lesson.

I'll edit that part out.
 
MrHobbit said:
Yes, and Toffee has shown exponentially more capable feats than Khan. Conquering multiple planets over the span of three or so years is a much, much, much greater feat than what Khan did in 41 or so years.
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No? He has more resources to do so. It's like how Great Britain conquering 1/3 of the world isn't considered as impressive as Khan doing it, despite them having more territory; he pulled it all off from nothing, and in an astonishingly small amount of time, in an era where just traveling the distances he conquered was a struggle. It's the same failure of comparison that would lead you to think Paul Tibbets was some super soldier for "singlehandedly" destroying a city. Don't get me wrong, Toffee is dangerous, but I think your threat categorization is fundamentally wrong in type.
 
QTesseract said:
No? He has more resources to do so. It's like how Great Britain conquering 1/3 of the world isn't considered as impressive as Khan doing it, despite them having more territory; he pulled it all off from nothing, and in an astonishingly small amount of time, in an era where just traveling the distances he conquered was a struggle. It's the same failure of comparison that would lead you to think Paul Tibets was some super Soldier for "singlehandedly" destroying a city. Don't get me wrong, Toffee is dangerous, but I think your threat categorization is fundamentally wrong in type.
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Hence my assumption that he has Martial on par with Khan, plus a trait like Toons have that lets him survive Martial failures with minimal damage, and a trait like Janna has that lets him substitute his 72+ Occult for Martial.

MrHobbit said:
Hmm, I think it may have been the whole time travel lesson where Glossaryck was teaching Meteora magic, which provoked Toffee into hating magic? I think I conflated the Mewman colonization and the Toffee magic hating lesson.

I'll edit that part out.
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Yeah, those were two separate incidents. One where we're shown Mewni being founded, and, then, later in the timestream, we see Toffee solidifying his plans of destruction while appearing to be a teenager. Assuming this was shortly before he rebelled, IE killed Star's grandmother, he's fairly young. I mean, he still does have combat experience: He rallied an army around himself, presumably with his talents, and got all the way up to the castle before Moon stopped him, and especially now that he's been traveling dimensions, but not centuries of it.
 
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MrHobbit said:
Is this a continuation of the joke? As in refusing to acknowledge it's existence? I was using the Cleaving to describe how Phobos sucks up all the magic from his territories as described in his KLR, which may or may not be canon for this particular quest.
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I was at no point joking when trying to explain Cleaving-level fuckery is uncommon. Phobos fusing worlds together is violent and destructive, but nowhere near as bad as torching all magic in the universe.

I interjected at an awkward part in the conversation to say that.

EDIT - For context, I wrote the article you are citing.
 
QTesseract said:
No? He has more resources to do so. It's like how Great Britain conquering 1/3 of the world isn't considered as impressive as Khan doing it, despite them having more territory; he pulled it all off from nothing, and in an astonishingly small amount of time, in an era where just traveling the distances he conquered was a struggle. It's the same failure of comparison that would lead you to think Paul Tibbets was some super soldier for "singlehandedly" destroying a city. Don't get me wrong, Toffee is dangerous, but I think your threat categorization is fundamentally wrong in type.
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Great Britain did it over the span of several centuries. Toffee went from ruling one planet whose people barely understand agriculture to ruling much much much more within three or so years. All the while fighting King Phobos, who is his equal.

Khan did not have an equal along the lines of Phobos when he broke out of Mongolia. There wasn't a rival world conqueror who could attack him directly.

For Toffee's minimum Martial, I would say 80. The max I could see him having would be 110. It is probably closer to 95.


weredrago2 said:
I was at no point joking when trying to explain Cleaving-level fuckery is uncommon. Phobos fusing worlds together is violent and destructive, but nowhere near as bad as torching all magic in the universe.

I interjected at an awkward part in the conversation to say that.
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I wasn't trying to talk about the destroy all magic thing, I was trying to compare the actual Merge of Earth and Mewni to what Phobos does. He doubtedly cares much less than blatant deus ex machina for his conquests.

I apologize if I haven't conveyed it very well.
 
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MrHobbit said:
Great Britain did it over the span of several centuries. Toffee went from ruling one planet whose people barely understand agriculture to ruling much much much more within three or so years. All the while fighting King Phobos, who is his equal.

Khan did not have an equal along the lines of Phobos when he broke out of Mongolia. There wasn't a rival world conqueror who could attack him directly.

For Toffee's minimum Martial, I would say 80. The max I could see him having would be 110. It is probably closer to 95.
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Holy overestimation. Keep in mind, like us, he presumably has hero units to call upon. He wasn't just doing all this shit personally. I mean, even us, Doofenshmirtz, have only 38 Learning, and we make the laws of physics our servant on a daily basis. I'd be surprised if he has over 70.
 
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Y'know, for Book Plans...
We're in NYC still.

Surely there's a place open with a photocopier? Yoink the Tome, leg it to the nearest Staples/Costco/Walgreens/etc, then return the book for Diplomacy rewards. Maybe even just taking phone pictures of the pages could work.

Heck, we already came through an entrance in an office building, they should have printers. The only question is how quickly could we get the book scanned/copied before someone starts doing some magical searching to track it down again. You can add a lot of pages to the queue while it's still printing them all off, so we could send two so one could run the tome back while the other waits for the copies to print.

This is just an idea for something less "Yoink" and more...
Jack Sparrow: Borrowed! Borrowed, without permission- but with every intention of bringing it back!
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Also I could just see Doofenshmirtz here running into a 24-hour store late on Halloween night to photocopy a magic tome before giving it back to a wizard.
 
Kiden said:
Y'know, for Book Plans...
We're in NYC still.

Surely there's a place open with a photocopier? Yoink the Tome, leg it to the nearest Staples/Costco/Walgreens/etc, then return the book for Diplomacy rewards. Maybe even just taking phone pictures of the pages could work.

Heck, we already came through an entrance in an office building, they should have printers. The only question is how quickly could we get the book scanned/copied before someone starts doing some magical searching to track it down again. You can add a lot of pages to the queue while it's still printing them all off, so we could send two so one could run the tome back while the other waits for the copies to print.

This is just an idea for something less "Yoink" and more...


Also I could just see Doofenshmirtz here running into a 24-hour store late on Halloween night to photocopy a magic tome before giving it back to a wizard.
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Copying magic books isn't that easy, this has come up.
 
MrHobbit said:
Great Britain did it over the span of several centuries. Toffee went from ruling one planet whose people barely understand agriculture to ruling much much much more within three or so years. All the while fighting King Phobos, who is his equal.

Khan did not have an equal along the lines of Phobos when he broke out of Mongolia. There wasn't a rival world conqueror who could attack him directly.

For Toffee's minimum Martial, I would say 80. The max I could see him having would be 110. It is probably closer to 95.



I wasn't trying to talk about the destroy all magic thing, I was trying to compare the actual Merge of Earth and Mewni to what Phobos does. He doubtedly cares much less than blatant deus ex machina for his conquests.
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Hobbit, bear in mind that this is the guy who somehow failed to take over a medieval fantasy kingdoms with an army of immortal regenerating supersoldiers. This is basically death note level of "how do you lose an unlosable matchup," and it happened solely due to his poor decisions as a commander; to press them with no hope of surrender but not immediately eliminate them, allowing the queen both the time and the incentive to go and pick up forbidden magics, and then, uh, everything that came after. It's a good story beat, yes, but not good strategy. Occam's Razor suggests, then, that it probably wasn't superior tactical and strategic genius that put him in the position he is to today, but rather something like taking his overwhelming personal power and then snowballing over a bunch of irrelevant worlds like the 7D until he has the forces to crack harder nuts.
 
I wonder what this event would have looked like without that RER a few turns ago. Less risk, but the risk mostly turned out OK, we probably wouldn't have had the opportunity to snag the evil book, Janna wouldn't have been to be so impressive (and thus would have gotten fewer boosts probably), and we wouldn't have gotten to see Puck, but on the other hand Diseased Maniac would have likely reduced less, Xanatos probably wouldn't need to spend a reaction action(that I think he will), and the report to Probably Toffee would have been less.
 
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