DoofQuest- a Disney Villains Victorious CK2-Style Quest

MrHobbit · Oct 1, 2020

Cjdavis103 said:
yes he has resilience... that helps him direct an army how?

Martial score is influenced by Generalship and Combat ability. He also has shown an ability to direct armies, both in canon and in his war spanning the multiverse with Phobos. While it is possible that both Phobos and Toffee could bungle their way through that, it would be a serious disservice and be unsatisfactory.

For example, Khan had 40 Martial (could someone correct me on that?) or so before we made the Super Mongolian Serum. That increase (both in combat and brainpower (?)) increased his Martial by 15.

TempestK · Oct 1, 2020

Can we please drop all the screaming about how Toffee is apparently going to crush us underfoot like an ant? All of this stupid fatalism is really making me sick to death of the lot of you.

woweed · Oct 1, 2020

Lab_Accident said:
Wait, there's an actual scale that I can go look at? Also, it feels weird that perfect omniscience would be at 70 in the scale, shouldn't it be at 100? Unless the scale somehow caps at 72 and Xanatos is at Intrigue: Max?

But then, Xanatos' Intrigue ability, while impressibe, could in no way match omniscience, mostly because omniscience also means perfect Intrigue, which should logically be higher than 72. Anyways, that's what I was trying to ilustrate, the scale is weird. Maybe that's to stop some really weird stuff from mechanically happening, I don't know.

Check Informational thrednarks. Unofficial stat guideline, caps out at 70+

QTesseract · Oct 1, 2020

Lab_Accident said:
Doofenshmirtz routinely makes machines that destroy conceptual ideas in a lazy afternoon, and canonically invented both dimensional and time travel, and his Learning is only 38. There isn't much more "up" to go from there, you know? What would somebody with Learning 70 look like, perfect omniscience?

IIRC, motivated Rueben had a 45 learning, but we're really starting to push the upper end of disney science; Jumba has 35, Doof 38, Ludivine 40... I don't think we're going to see anything above 50 learning, unless it's something explicitly temporarily like Rufus getting the brains of all the world's top scientists for a day in Kim Possible or whatever.

MrHobbit said:
A lot of his issues came from the fact that the Butterfly family held a monopoly over magic. Magic is allowed the Mewmans to defeat the monsters. He certainly does suffer from Disney Villain Syndrome. But it has been at least 20 years since that happened and Toffee has shown greater capability since then. Also, while his behavior was rather strange, Toffee grew up his entire life knowing that he was basically immortal. For Moon to permanently sever his finger off would have been shocking for anyone. He's had time to grow and adapt. If you were talking about his second bid, I don't think he had an army of Septarians?

I'm not sure we're going to get anywhere here. Agree to disagree?

MrHobbit said:
Edit: Alright, I am willing to concede triple-digit Martial, but I do not believe that 70 Martial is quite enough to emphasise how experienced he is and what sort of advantages the fact that he is a septarian offers him.

That explains how he lost, but it doesn't explain why. There was no reason for him to even get into a situation where this was a plausible outcome, and the fact that it did was utterly damning of his capabilities as a military leader. Has he probably improved in the 20 years since? Yes. But your initial argument was that he is clearly better than Shego because he has centuries of experience, when that's clearly false; he was already almost as experienced as he is today, timewise, when he proved himself significantly less capable. Even if he took the last 20 years seriously and we can't pattern match to his previous learning curve, well, Shego also has ~20 or so years of experience. At best, we're probably talking mid 40s martial and the ability to use his likely massive occult in combat, or some kind of trait to give the same affect if the way the QMs have choen to model him subsuming mewni's magic isn't high occult. Most likely, he has even less than that, at least for purposes like "make anti-air lazer defeses" or "recruit fighters" that don't involve him fighting, to give two examples of actions Doof has under martial. We have no reason to expect he'd be superhumanly good at these things, and quite a bit of evidence that he would not.

MrHobbit · Oct 1, 2020

TempestK said:
Can we please drop all the screaming about how Toffee is apparently going to crush us underfoot like an ant? All of this stupid fatalism is really making me sick to death of the lot of you.

That isn't what this argument is about, but I'll be willing to take it to PMs if @Cjdavis103 is willing.

Retrueno · Oct 1, 2020

I really hope we study with Feldrake next turn with Janna (or have her read the spooky evil book), it'd be quite useless if we collected Magic Books/Occult Tutors/etc. and didn't use them later on after all. So, since we've got no pressing Occult action or mission I think it'd be a nice turn to do it.

Also since we have a really low Occult score improving the base Occult of our hero units seems like the best (or at least the most reliable) way to start getting difficult Occult actions done.

kfrar · Oct 1, 2020

Made in Heaven said:
The Marcnificent Few.

Oh hey, this is either masterful bait, or promising news in terms of hiring Marco (and sending him to raid tombs with Janna).

Ashen Cross said:
I meant this...
We have new hero units to be recruited in an upcoming interlude. They have a focus in stewardship and learning.

That is what he's talking about, yes. Last time we crit a general recruitment action, we got to hire one of a selection of supervillains (with a bonus TECHNOR).

This time we've crit a general recruitment action, we may get to hire one of a selection of Stewardship/Learning heroes (with potential bonuses). If so, discussing what we're looking for in a Stewardship hero could be useful.

woweed · Oct 1, 2020

kfrar said:
Oh hey, this is either masterful bait, or promising news in terms of hiring Marco (and sending him to raid tombs with Janna).

That is what he's talking about, yes. Last time we crit a general recruitment action, we got to hire one of a selection of supervillains (with a bonus TECHNOR).

This time we've crit a general recruitment action, we may get to hire one of a selection of Stewardship/Learning heroes (with potential bonuses). If so, discussing what we're looking for in a Stewardship hero could be useful.

High Stewardship. Learning's nice but we kinda have enough, so I say we prioritize Stewardship, as it's probably our weakest area.

Kiden · Oct 1, 2020

Cjdavis103 said:
Ludvine is on a Power armor. Doof is doing the heavy lifting on the Inator project.

My reply about Ludvine there was a response to Alex Sol's opinion of having either her or Lizzie on the Dimension-Inator to get that started up earlier. Obviously having the Doof give his personal attention makes it even better.

While I personally don't see power armor being very useful/fitting for Doofenshmirtz currently, beyond making it out of Toon-materials to take advantage of the narrative weight of putting the Doof on the front lines when he's not the most Martial of people, getting some more personal defenses is certainly important for the Supreme Ruler of the Tri-State Area. Making some for Temujin would be great, on the other hand.

The earlier we can get a toehold on a decent extra-dimensional expansion, though, the sooner we can really maximize production. Especially with an AI managing a facility there, but more importantly it gives us a place to try making the really risky things (like Jumba's experiments added with ACME tech, or even Jumba making his own Toon) that we wouldn't want to experiment with in or near populated areas.

AProcrastinator · Oct 1, 2020

...wait a second.

Waaaaaiiiiit a second.

Hold on. Men in Black is a documentary, thinly veiled as fiction, in this universe. As pointed out here:

Made in Heaven said:
The headlight of the motorcycle begins to whine and shift, blinding you with an acrid blue light. As the emerald lightning arcs forwards, the vehicle chirps loudly just before a blinding beam of energy shot out to meet it.

"Hey… wait a second." Janna says in between moves. "That sounds exactly like the Noisy Cricket!"

Russ sighs. "Why did we let them make that documentary?"

So earlier, when Xanatos was talking to us re: the magical masquerade, that wasn't just the GMs making a reference. He was actually quoting something, in-universe.

Made in Heaven said:
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, stupid animals, and we both know it."

Russ frowns.

Did

Did Xanatos just use his teaching moment while talking to us in earshot of our employees to quote MiB on purpose in a situation in which it wouldn't be suspicious order to needle Russ? Let him know that he knew without actually saying anything to blow our secret agent's cover?

Because like

Holy cow, I know we meme up Xanatos a lot, but that was actually really smart and multilayered

stuckunderwater · Oct 1, 2020

Retrueno said:
I really hope we study with Feldrake next turn with Janna (or have her read the spooky evil book), it'd be quite useless if we collected Magic Books/Occult Tutors/etc. and didn't use them later on after all. So, since we've got no pressing Occult action or mission I think it'd be a nice turn to do it.

Also since we have a really low Occult score improving the base Occult of our hero units seems like the best (or at least the most reliable) way to start getting difficult Occult actions done.

I agree, I think it's important to have her start studying (especially since currently she relies on Feldrake to cast spells- I'd like to make it so she can cast without him present). If we get the glooms we can use them and Tobe to do low level occult national actions so Janna can focus on stat maxing and quests.

MrHobbit · Oct 1, 2020

QTesseract said:
That explains how he lost, but it doesn't explain why. There was no reason for him to even get into a situation where this was a plausible outcome, and the fact that it did was utterly damning of his capabilities as a military leader.

That is a good point, alright, I'll concede on that.

But that does bring up a question for me; who are Toffee's heroes? We know about Kalabar, so that is probably the theme that his heroes have. It is rather hard to imagine him with scientists, but he is bound to have some equivalent laying around somewhere.

His starting heroes were probably monsters, with the list expanding as he expanded his empire. How willing would he be to stretch out and hire different kinds of people?

Arathnorn · Oct 1, 2020

Lab_Accident said:
Wait, there's an actual scale that I can go look at? Also, it feels weird that perfect omniscience would be at 70 in the scale, shouldn't it be at 100? Unless the scale somehow caps at 72 and Xanatos is at Intrigue: Max?

But then, Xanatos' Intrigue ability, while impressibe, could in no way match omniscience, mostly because omniscience also means perfect Intrigue, which should logically be higher than 72. Anyways, that's what I was trying to ilustrate, the scale is weird. Maybe that's to stop some really weird stuff from mechanically happening, I don't know.

DoofQuest- a Disney Villains Victorious CK2-Style Quest Crossover

What are you going to do today?

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kfrar · Oct 1, 2020

woweed said:
High Stewardship. Learning's nice but we kinda have enough, so I say we prioritize Stewardship, as it's probably our weakest area.

Yeeeees, but I'm guessing you skipped the start of the conversation:

ReaperofInterest said:
Alright, so what do people think we should look for in Stewardship hires? Should we look for someone like a qualified architect of villain lairs, a wannabe-CEO, maybe a professional investor? We have a nice range of Martial and Learning heroes, so it might be a good idea to.think about what's we're looking for in Stewardship ones.

Obviously we're doing Stewardship, but Doof, Lee, Wile E., Frugal Lucre, Mirage, and Phineas and Ferb are all Stewards of varying qualities and I wouldn't consider them interchangeable. So what kind of Steward would we be looking for? We could go for a corporate focus, a financial fellow, an engineer, a software specialist... There's options, and the question was what would benefit us the most.

Personally, I'd be most interested in an engineer or someone with experience in agriculture, really lean into the whole breadbasket of America thing, but I could see taking something else depending on what the interlude actually gets us. Assuming it offers us a choice at all, of course.

Arathnorn · Oct 1, 2020

AProcrastinator said:
...wait a second.

Waaaaaiiiiit a second.

Hold on. Men in Black is a documentary, thinly veiled as fiction, in this universe. As pointed out here:

So earlier, when Xanatos was talking to us re: the magical masquerade, that wasn't just the GMs making a reference. He was actually quoting something, in-universe.

Did

Did Xanatos just use his teaching moment while talking to us in earshot of our employees to quote MiB on purpose in a situation in which it wouldn't be suspicious order to needle Russ? Let him know that he knew without actually saying anything to blow our secret agent's cover?

Because like

Holy cow, I know we meme up Xanatos a lot, but that was actually really smart and multilayered

Jesus christ you are the smartest person here, I didn't think *anyone* would catch that

Rozencrantz · Oct 1, 2020

kfrar said:
Yeeeees, but I'm guessing you skipped the start of the conversation:

Obviously we're doing Stewardship, but Doof, Lee, Wile E., Frugal Lucre, Mirage, and Phineas and Ferb are all Stewards of varying qualities and I wouldn't consider them interchangeable. So what kind of Steward would we be looking for? We could go for a corporate focus, a financial fellow, an engineer, a software specialist... There's options, and the question was what would benefit us the most.

Personally, I'd be most interested in an engineer or someone with experience in agriculture, really lean into the whole breadbasket of America thing, but I could see taking something else depending on what the interlude actually gets us. Assuming it offers us a choice at all, of course.

A finance specialist would probably unlock some actions that increase income via efficiency and let us spend extra income to boost actions, and generally bring a level of business savvy we currently lack.
Another engineer would be fantastic for all our applied mad science actions, and play to our existing strengths.
A logistics specialist might be useful for a lot of things, but won't bring much to the table otherwise.

Ultimately though, I'll be looking at growth potential, plot hooks, and numbers first.

gracnieumierac · Oct 1, 2020

[x] "You're wrong, and I'll prove it to you."
[x] Yoink the Book (Moderate Intrigue Check to avoid anyone seeing you take it)

Shame on all who didn't pick this. You spit on the goo- I mean evil name of Dr Doofinshmirts. What sort of EVIL GENIUS obeys society! Except the IRS even were not crazy enough to mess with them.

Nix's Warden · Oct 1, 2020

AProcrastinator said:
um

well

AProcrastinator said:
...wait a second.

Waaaaaiiiiit a second.

Hold on. Men in Black is a documentary, thinly veiled as fiction, in this universe. As pointed out here:

So earlier, when Xanatos was talking to us re: the magical masquerade, that wasn't just the GMs making a reference. He was actually quoting something, in-universe.

Did

Did Xanatos just use his teaching moment while talking to us in earshot of our employees to quote MiB on purpose in a situation in which it wouldn't be suspicious order to needle Russ? Let him know that he knew without actually saying anything to blow our secret agent's cover?

Because like

Holy cow, I know we meme up Xanatos a lot, but that was actually really smart and multilayered

Arathnorn said:
Jesus christ you are the smartest person here, I didn't think *anyone* would catch that

Looks like the correct answer was 'Yes'.

Tumach · Oct 1, 2020

[X] "All right, I get it. I'll keep things on the down low for now."
[X] Yoink the Book

So, on keeping up vs smashing the masquerade: I feel like, given the overall attitude towards magic Doof grew up around in Drusselstein, he'd have a pretty good idea of how badly breaking the masquerade could go. That said, it sounds like we may not have a choice on the veil coming down, so we really should be preparing for that either way.

As for the book, I think just giving it back to Pandarus might actually decrease his opinion of us. After all, what self respecting dark wizard just hands over a magical tome like that? Pretty sure he wouldn't, and if we immediately give it back, he'd probably think we're up to something. And he knows that Janna pulled one over on the witches already, so.... Basically, even if we plan on giving it back, we may as well at least borrow it for a bit first, because he'd likely be suspicious of anything less. And that's assuming we decide to give it back at all.

KitRougard · Oct 1, 2020

[X] "All right, I get it. I'll keep things on the down low for now."
[X] Yoink the Book

Because I'd rather assist intrigue than fight with Janna in Diplomacy.

DragonGrimoire · Oct 1, 2020

can anyone link me that fake forum post tool? working on a couple omakes, one for this quest and one for another, that'd benefit from it. i'm also working on another omake for this quest that won't benefit from it at all but that's less relevant.

Shade31415 · Oct 1, 2020

DragonGrimoire said:
can anyone link me that fake forum post tool? working on a couple omakes, one for this quest and one for another, that'd benefit from it. i'm also working on another omake for this quest that won't benefit from it at all but that's less relevant.

If you're talking about the negaverse omakes, just do

FakePoster said:
Quote=FakePosterName in brackets to get this

Rah13 · Oct 1, 2020

[X] "All right, I get it. I'll keep things on the down low for now."
[X] Yoink the Book

General_Urist · Oct 1, 2020

AProcrastinator said:
Did

Did Xanatos just use his teaching moment while talking to us in earshot of our employees to quote MiB on purpose in a situation in which it wouldn't be suspicious order to needle Russ? Let him know that he knew without actually saying anything to blow our secret agent's cover?

Because like

Holy cow, I know we meme up Xanatos a lot, but that was actually really smart and multilayered

Holy shit that's an utter genius move. And I have to give @Made in Heaven credit for being able to capture Xanatos's subtle mastermindery so effectively.

AProcrastinator · Oct 1, 2020

Arathnorn said:
Jesus christ you are the smartest person here, I didn't think *anyone* would catch that

ADHD is my superpower, and attempting anything like an actual social life is my kryptonite

I've thought it over for a while, and seeing the positives and negatives of both approaches, mechanically, masquerade-wise, I... I've come to the conclusion that the only way I can really vote is by advancing what I believe to be Doctor Doofenschmirtz's true character.

And Doofenschmirtz is a crackpot, a kook, a weirdo sundae with whipped evil on top. He's a grand idea man, a visionary, one who refuses to bend or compromise in his vision. He's a menace, in many ways, and a savior in others, because he refuses compromising what he feels the world should be. If there's a Masquerade out there, he's absolutely the type to rip the mask off.

...but Heinz, for all that alternate dimensions or dark futures shape him into a true terror, is also a fundamentally good person. He doesn't want innocent people to get hurt.

So. Which of these conflicting ideals do I feel is more true to Doof's character?

[X] "All right, I get it. I'll keep things on the down low for now."
[X] Yoink the Book

DoofQuest- a Disney Villains Victorious CK2-Style Quest

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