Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

Lol. I already answered to it. I think it was in my second message. In short: if S9 get close, there is no guarantee that they will be stopped before they begin.
That not the answer to the question. It's not even close to the answer to the question!

Here's the question:

Why do you think that Joe's strategic plan is to "get the terrorists get into the city, let them spread out, grab hostages, and then engage"?

Here's your "answer":
if S9 get close, there is no guarantee that they will be stopped before they begin.

If you really don't see a problem here, then I question your reading comprehension. Letting S9 to terrorize the BB is a failure of Joe's plan, not a plan itself. In spite of what you were saying in your first post. And I quote it:
I think a shittiest army lieutenant barely worth his pay would come with a better plan than basically "let's get the terrorists get into the city, let them spread out, grab hostages, and then we engage"
 
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Neathbow Colors (Fits Dreia)
"There may be, considering your previous containment protocols." I gave her a confused look. "The suit is apocyan."
For those that dont remember the colours:
Irrigo was one of the more dramatic colors in terms of its effects. In recordings it came across as a pinkish-purple. In reality I had no idea what the color looked like, because I couldn't remember it. It was the color of something forgotten, a shade that couldn't stay in your mind. Looking at it left you functional, but glancing resulted in all memory of that experience being cast to the wind. It was like someone took Aisha's power and distilled it into paint and ink.

Violant was a color that stood as irrigo's opposite, which seemed to be something of a theme with these shades. It appeared as a deep red in recordings, but had an odd tendency to shift to other outlandish shades in certain situations. The color, it was like it burned into your mind. It couldn't be forgotten easily. Even now every casual glance that contained a sliver of the color stuck in memory, rising to the surface of my thoughts with almost no prompting and remaining there for a stubbornly long time.

Cosmogone was a prime example, appearing orangey in photos but being more of a softer hue of nostalgia in real life. It was a color that had a sense of warm memory. Not the stark clarity of recollection created by violant, but instead a comforting idea of times gone by.
Apocyan was as far removed from cosmogone as violant was from irrigo. Cosmogone was soft and sedate while apocyan was sharp and aggressive. The color looked greenish-blue in recordings, but in reality it burned with the promise of the future. Not the warm thoughts of comfortable days, but the beating drive to an ambitious and unknown future.

It was a color that contrasted and complemented with peligin. Though it appeared black in recordings, peligin was much more complex. It was a deep color, one with near literal hidden depths. It was a color of unknown things, of dread in the dark or beyond understanding. A primal emotion bound to ink and paint by the arts of the Prismatic Laboratory.

Viric stood as its opposite. A color that looked bright green in recordings, it was a color that slipped from your mind, though not with the violent energy that caused irrigo to eject itself from a person's recollection. It was the color of willful ignorance, of ignoring a problem, or letting someone else worry about a situation. It contrasted with peligin's inevitable dread through a refusal to be acknowledged.

Then there was gant. Gant looked like an ugly shade of brown in photographs, but was much more than that. Actually, it would be more accurate to say it was much less. Gant was the color left by the absence of all of the above colors. That should have left nothing, but apparently there were worse things than nothing in this place. With normal colors combining all of them resulted in white light. With the Laboratory's pigments removing them left gant.

That fact alone was telling about the nature of these colors. They weren't obtrusions on reality so much as they were aspects of it, sent out of balance to the point where they became visible. If you remove them completely you don't get normal space. You get gant. A color of ends, not the dreaded end of peligin, but the inevitable cessation of all things. An end of self beyond which there will be nothing left. Nothing but gant.
@LordRoustabout can this be in informational? So we dont have to search the colors if we forget about them?
 
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*reads that Apocyan makes you remember*

Mochaccino Magnetite: *wear his catsuit making it look as if he was nothing at all under it. Nothing at all. Nothing at all*

Vista: Stupid Sexy That Guy! He is obviously trying to seduce me with his diabolical evil powers! And that's illigal! What a criminal, we have to arrest him!

Clock: Vista, no.

Vista: To the Vista Mobile! *teleports while making car noises*

EDIT: Well, reading what Apocyan actually does killed the joke :D
 
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Since being a Star Trek nerds were brought up in the last chapter, do you think that Bet Star Trek has parahumans for other races or do the writers assume it's a human only phenomenon?
 
Ok. You know what, I giving up on you. I well aware how these kinds of system works. Joe CAN deal with them, he HAS methods. If there's some sort of trigger S9 have to routinely activate Joe WILL find out one way or another. That trigger logically must be all time be in their hands otherwise its not DMS, its just fucking ticking time bomb, a whole different beast. Logically, its some sort of technology, like, ughhhh, mail. Introducing, Survey who can hack their tech with divine authority. Done.
Imagine there was a bomb. One that explodes without you having to send it any signal at all. It has a 24h countdown timer. If a program of this bomb gets a message - the countdown is reset. If it does not, it is not reset. It goes boom. That's a dead hand system. It's embarrassing to explain because you'r too lazy to google it.

And it is not hackable. Each day it would check a different email, and only the group who programmed it would know where to send the next message. Each message is also a unique code, obviously. Jack dies? Well, the message wasn't sent. Jack gets captured? Wasn't sent. Hack all you want, if there was such a doomsday device, it's over. Compared to this anything Bonesaw can do to her body is small potatoes.

Thats just not how things work at all. Pebble analogy at this level falls apart. Shards wont live some chemical marker (or if will it will be anything but discreet marker; they NEED to know what and when activate for fucks sake! And not to mix it up with some other shard's chemical marker, it HAS to be unique or IT JUST WONT WORK), its more likely be some sort of energy signature WHICH JOE IS PERFECTLY ABLE TO DETECT
Sure thing. You are a pro on what Bonesaw can improvise. Won't even argue any more about this.

I still waiting on quote
Wdym?
 
Imagine there was a bomb. One that explodes without you having to send it any signal at all. It has a 24h countdown timer. If a program of this bomb gets a message - the countdown is reset. If it does not, it is not reset. It goes boom. That's a dead hand system. It's embarrassing to explain because you'r too lazy to google it.

And it is not hackable. Each day it would check a different email, and only the group who programmed it would know where to send the next message. Each message is also a unique code, obviously. Jack dies? Well, the message wasn't sent. Jack gets captured? Wasn't sent. Hack all you want, if there was such a doomsday device, it's over. Compared to this anything Bonesaw can do to her body is small potatoes.

It seems like you're arguing that Joe should not haste into impromptu attack and should instead spy some in S9, to check if thy have some dead man's mechanisms. Or else he kills them without thinking, and kills everything else.

Pretty sure he asks for where you get the idea on how tinkertech works in Worm canon. WoG from WildBow or quote from the work itself. Because you're spewing some hard to believe bullshit on the matter. And trying to use it as argument. You're failing.
 
If you really don't see a problem here, then I question your reading comprehension. Letting S9 to terrorize the BB is a failure of Joe's plan, not a plan itself. In spite of what you were saying in your first post. And I quote it:

Huh, actually you are right. I didn't express myself properly. Well, sometimes I do skip some steps, forgetting to write them down. But I'm pretty sure since then we established what I meant, so what's the point of this avenue of discussion?
 
It make Garment moist.

It's an Eldritch color that make you remember, which I find fairly stupid for a cat-suit.



HAHAHA NO. Should I remember you the word of the passenger, assuming the full Forge unlock ?



And it make sense, really. The Entities are big and used to fight. They use bullshit abilities like Sting. They have their own dimension (so without dimension tech, forget about it really). They were only defeated in Worm because Taylor bullied Scion to death, so we don't exactly know how powerful they are, but Scion trivially erased a country at the start of the fight.

Also, even if Joe can win against Scion, there's the question of defeating him without annihilating the rest of the human population in the process.
Ha as far as I can tell the Passenger has no clue of what the Forge is capable of.
 
Huh, actually you are right. I didn't express myself properly. Well, sometimes I do skip some steps, forgetting to write them down. But I'm pretty sure since then we established what I meant, so what's the point of this avenue of discussion?
The point is - why do you think that Joe should attempt a plan that he thinks have fewer chances of success, when you don't think he will succeed with a plan that he 100% sure of?

Edit: Also, the point of my original post to you was, because I was confused where do you get that Joe's plan THIS stupid. With you admitting that you just forgot to say that you think that Joe will fail at his actual plan, my confusion was gone. Actually, I think I'm done here. You think that Joe will fail (reasonable, he has a bad track record), I think he will succeed (That first time he actually PREPARES for something. If he fails again, I will have to admit that he is an idiot with very bad luck and Lord is a sadist), let's leave it at that.
 
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Joe's position makes sense, he doesn't know what he doesn't know after all.

He can't guarantee an early strike will get everyone, Bonesaw or Siberian being left alive to go berserk somewhere else would kill far more than waiting for the whole lot to get into position for an effective ambush.

Joe also isn't really in the mindset to put an entire state under a panopticon in order to hunt down criminals.

I approve of his caution here, given what he's aware of and what he isn't.
As long as he can catch them at the outskirts he'll be grand.
 
It seems like you're arguing that Joe should not haste into impromptu attack and should instead spy some in S9, to check if thy have some dead man's mechanisms. Or else he kills them without thinking, and kills everything else.
The opposite really. It will never be possible to eliminate this possibility, unless MC gets convinced to throw his moral boundaries and get into mind reading. Which is not a thing he wants to do either way. And given that potential dead hand system is a major factor to why Jack shouldn't be touched from a point of view of a person without metaknowledge, if MC is planning to hold himself from mind control and such, then it matters not when he will off Jack.

Pretty sure he asks for where you get the idea on how tinkertech works in Worm canon
Wait a second, you think that all the bullshit someone like Squealer or Leet made out of garbage is legit technology? To me it's being anything real is simply far less believable. On one hand you have to get a shard to both transmute things, know and fully comprehend actual tech. On other, you just have it to grant some pre-prepared effects to random tech-like objects. Second relies on far less assumptions, thus it is more likely.

That is an opinion. I never said it was canon. I said more canon-like. Because it's far more likely.

The point is - why do you think that Joe should attempt a plan that he thinks have fewer chances of success, when you don't think he will succeed with a plan that he 100% sure of?
My point is that there is no 100% success when you run on incomplete information. And the only way to gain information is to confront s9. If he can scan them? He should scan him asap. If it fails, he would have more time to fix his scanner. When all scans are done, why wait and not attack, if you are sure you can get them? No point waiting for them to get closer then. Even when you are 100% sure, there is always a chance of something unexpected. Third party intervention, for example. Plan all you like, but if butcher gets to them before you that will create complications. So attacking them far from any possible complications is pretty sensible.
 
It can happen. In fact, it should happen. Because tinkertech is very literally bullshit. It's effects are mostly applied directly thru shard 'magic'. So you can scan some black box all you want, and you will understand nothing, because there is nothing to understand. But when it somehow triggers, the shard that made it would apply some effect to a wide area around the box.

Because it's the shard that does it, the box is just a target.
Analysis sensors are fiat backed, so they CAN'T fail
 
Damn S9 coming interupt our precious techgasm rom-com fic with their grimderp.

Don't they understand that we have tech to talk about and be existential about?! We don't need more diversions!
 
Wow. That's a lot of time in the spiritron computer. Alright so one and a half year inside would be a couple hours outside.
I shrugged. "I did promise both Tetra and Aisha, and this is going to be important for Tetra's procedure. Losing a couple of hours of real time isn't going to make a difference at this point."
The definition for a couple is often two or some more. Then Joe says to Survey.
"You can take two hours for yourself, and everyone else is going to be involved. It's important to have you there."
So we can be reasonable sure that it will take 2 hours to cover one and a half year materials.
Alright so my math tells me. Assuming its correct calculated...
365/2 = 182.5
182.5+365 = 547.5 days
547.5÷2 = 273.75
So its acceleration inside is 273.75 days per hour outside. That's crazy!
So its 6570 times faster than normal time.

...Now I imagine Tats using her power on him and get:
Negotiator: He's keen on new updates as its a long ago since last time.
Lisa: Huh, but I called him yesterday. *Checks.*
Negotiator: Body language and facial expression suggest its has been at least a year....
Lisa: Give me a break. >.< I'm trying to save Earth Bet here, can't I get some of that time?!
*Collapses.*
 
Joe no.....Just no. Use your goddamned drones or build a fucking sattelite, find them, then drop a black hole bomb on them while they are passing between towns-A nuke even, you can't tell me he's unable to make a radiationless nuke. It doesn't even really matter if you do irradiate an area, once people find out you offed the 9 they'll be cheering your name from the rooftops.

Now, don't get me wrong Joe pulling all of the restrictions and giving his team free reign was badass, possible the most hype thing in the story so far given what we know they have at their disposal. That doesn't mean that he hasn't once again chosen the hard and needlessly dangerous way
Sadly the best solution rarely a good story makes.
Tactically, it's the difference between a strike and an ambush - it's not inherently less effective to choose to ambush.

Practically, Joe only gets more able to handle them the longer he waits. But he said he's planning to fight before Bonesaw has a chance to scatter plagues, with the tools to contain them. Shatterbird? Unnatural Skill Music means he can simply countersong her power even if he doesn't have another preventative measure in place.
The difference is the collateral damage.
Attacking the S9 while they are on the road in their van will lead to (probably) miles of surrounded burned, irradiated or otherwise destroyed land.
Fighting the S9 in the middle of BB when they deign showing themselves, after Bonesaw made all her disease cocktails and Mannequin puts in place all his traps and other deadman-switches is probably going to end up with about the same effect on the surroundings, but inflicted on a dense populated city rather than mostly empty forest or farm-land.

The upside, as stated previously is mostly political. It's better to be seen using overwhelming force in response to a direct attack than you randomly nuking some random place all of a sudden for apparently no reason (as I doubt protag's black hole bomb or whatever would leave any identifiable bodies behind...).

Personally? i'd say the upside VERY much is NOT worth the MASSIVE loss of life his current plan will result in. All we can hope for is that protag's weekly visit to the therapist will somehow unscrew his head out off his arse and back on straight...

And if a certain unnoticed van is not in the range of the black hole bomb?

Or what if they, quite reasonably, are spread out as they move with individuals taking different routes in varying amounts? Routes that could involve say, traveling on a train or the like?

And as he has noted, he doesn't understand their powers fully. What if one of them, like a new one he didn't know about, had something to let them slip through his attack?

He's aware they're incoming, has a direction, now he's stepping up preparations for them while they got no idea what he's truly capable of. Laying groundwork for a strike to hit them all at once, with them noticed the moment they come into range.

Also, putting up highly advanced satellites next to a certain someone up there before you're ready to deal with all that is a concern that is reasonable.
Then he'll have to face the Slaughterhouse six, or three, instead. Which is still a marked improvement.
Also ballistic missiles are a thing, or just using any of the myriad of portal tech he now has, there's no actual need to poke at Ziz with orbit killsats.
 
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Wow. That's a lot of time in the spiritron computer. Alright so one and a half year inside would be a couple hours outside.

The definition for a couple is often two or some more. Then Joe says to Survey.

So we can be reasonable sure that it will take 2 hours to cover one and a half year materials.
Alright so my math tells me. Assuming its correct calculated...
365/2 = 182.5
182.5+365 = 547.5 days
547.5÷2 = 273.75
So its acceleration inside is 273.75 days per hour outside. That's crazy!
So its 6570 times faster than normal time.

...Now I imagine Tats using her power on him and get:
Negotiator: He's keen on new updates as its a long ago since last time.
Lisa: Huh, but I called him yesterday. *Checks.*
Negotiator: Body language and facial expression suggest its has been at least a year....
Lisa: Give me a break. >.< I'm trying to save Earth Bet here, can't I get some of that time?!
*Collapses.*


The boy is out here conjuring years out of hours like it's nothing. So it's 3 days until the s9 get here? what's that? 50 years and change?

*Steps out of computer* "wuuuhh, what's that young whippa snaps? the 9? oh, forgot all about that, now onto about that 29th multiverse we're planning to colonise entirely with sentient mushrooms. Honestly, not sure where Aisia got the idea but sounds fun."

*Tattletale eyes roll so far they cross the horizon and back*
 
There's also the fact that Blank II as per the document prevents all types of spying for anything Joe has a hand in creating, so, assuming that he did decide to build a killsat Ziz would be blind to it unless they rammed that bitch into her face lol.

-Blank II (Essential Body Modification Supplement) (200CP)

Abilities which gather information about your past, present, or future do not work on you. This includes scrying, divination, mind reading, and even cold reading and lie detection. This ability not only affects your immediate person but also provides a degree of protection to items and people around you, making it difficult to predict the past, present, or future of any group you move with or vessel you travel on. If you have the Essential Mutuality perk, your affected companions gain the full benefit of your Blank perk even if they are acting independently.

I: You are immune to all supernatural and technological abilities and devices which perform the functions described above. You simply do not register to such abilities, though your own abilities function normally. Purely mundane skills at cold reading or lie detection will be less effective, but still function to some degree.

II: Even mundane versions of the above items do not function against you. Furthermore, you are able to detect when someone is actively attempting to discern such information through supernatural or technological abilities or devices and feed them false information of the type they expect. Thus, you can feed an image of yourself asleep in bed to a scrying spell while you're secretly across town beating up thugs or you can have a truth detection spell return 'truth' when you are telling a lie. Note that this does not protect you from compulsions to tell the truth or share information directly. Additionally, any items which you create have a measure of this protection, making it difficult to predict actions directly relying on those items and making it impossible to detect the items themselves with most supernatural abilities.
I'm afraid you're looking at the wrong Jumpdoc. Not only Joe never rolled Blank, Essential Body Modification Supplement not even part of Celestial Forge Lord using.
 
I'm afraid you're looking at the wrong Jumpdoc. Not only Joe never rolled Blank, Essential Body Modification Supplement not even part of Celestial Forge Lord using.
Oops, I stand corrected. Oh well, I guess he'll have to rely on all the other stealth tech he has lol.

Edit: Ah, It was OCP (Free) that I was thinking of that nullifies all forms of Shard Precog. Specifically Ziz and Contessa.
 
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The rationale behind letting the S9 show up sounds like bullshit to me.

I mean, he's concerned that looking at them with drones might tip them off and cause some of them to flee, but that remains true at all points in this endeavor.

If they're so good that they can pierce even his best stealth protection and rabbit before he can catch them despite Apeiron and the forge specifically preparing to stalk and attack them then why can't they do the same thing on the approach to the bay?

As to the whole freaking people out thing, the issue is predictability. He literally has a website for this, and a contact in the form of Weld.

Joe could do anything from giving a back channel warning to the PRT to posting that he's accepted an out of state contract (without any details on precisely what it is) on his website a day or so before he leaves. I mean, being able to deflect blame and give believable motives was the whole point of that charade wasn't it? Warning and motive make things feel less random to observers.

Joe may say the lives the S9 take between now and their arrival aren't his responsibility, but if he's unwilling to act because making vague public statements or shooting a text over to someone in his debt is less comfortable than waiting until the problem comes to him then he in part owns the results of that.

Wasn't he excited about mental fortress specifically because it'd ding him if he acted like a doormat again? Cause all I'm seeing is him doormatting with more vigor here.
 
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The boy is out here conjuring years out of hours like it's nothing. So it's 3 days until the s9 get here? what's that? 50 years and change?

*Steps out of computer* "wuuuhh, what's that young whippa snaps? the 9? oh, forgot all about that, now onto about that 29th multiverse we're planning to colonise entirely with sentient mushrooms. Honestly, not sure where Aisia got the idea but sounds fun."

*Tattletale eyes roll so far they cross the horizon and back*
Yeah. Its just its gone up light in my eyes when I saw that they were talking about one and a half year material to cover while in two hours. Before it was like picture on a wall. Now, I see that what they actually DO that.
 
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