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Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

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Xedornox said:
I wonder if the material's he himself makes from scratch are superior to the material he would get from the shop, atleast for those he has found a way to make. Considering how broken the thing's he makes are it makes me wonder if outside of the thing's he has no way of creating himself if the shop's would bring anything worthwhile for him.
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If you want a concrete example of something Joe can't make himself that the shops can provide, it would have to be the Psych Pins from TWEWY. While he would need to get quite a lot of Mall perks before that can happen, they are an item he specifically cannot create without first becoming a Reaper, turning his back on all the progress he's made in therapy and interacting with the other Forge members.

While his own Pin is an Entanglement Psych, which of the three tethers he has was never mentioned and doesn't make much of a difference in this example, getting access to stores like Darling Designs or Accessory Heaven with more Natural Puppy Pins or other Brands could lead to a better understanding of how they work to recreate them himself.

I myself would love to see what, and how, Joe does with an Angel Magnum after working up from a Happy Beam.
 
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JumpFail200 said:
If you want a concrete example of something Joe can't make himself that the shops can provide, it would have to be the Psych Pins from TWEWY. While he would need to get quite a lot of Mall perks before that can happen, they are an item he specifically cannot create without first becoming a Reaper, turning his back on all the progress he's made in therapy and interacting with the other Forge members.

While his own Pin is an Entanglement Psych, which of the three tethers he has was never mentioned and doesn't make much of a difference in this example, getting access to stores like Darling Designs or Accessory Heaven with more Natural Puppy Pins or other Brands could lead to a better understanding of how they work to recreate them himself.

I myself would love to see what, and how, Joe does with an Angel Magnum after working up from a Happy Beam.
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By that time he would probably be able to fuse them into one item. I think the perk name is self made shopkeeper.
 
Stop: This is not civil.
  • Staff Post
    • this is not civil.
    ExploerTM said:
    You obviously a troll and should be banned. I am just ignoring you from this point on, I have better things to do than try to break through a brick wall.
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    @ExploerTM has been issued 25 points and been threadbanned for three days under Rule 3 - Be Civil.

    If you wish to use the ignore feature, hit the button and move on. Do not parade it around to actively try to discourage participation, or call other users 'trolls'.

    edit: clarification

    Due to time served on previous action via another moderator for the same incident, the threadban has been removed. The points, however, stand - in total, a standard infraction (3 days/25 points).
     
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  • Staff Post
    • Basic logic here.

    Scenario 1: kill the S9 immediately.
    Result: S9 dead, no more victims, perhaps some nervousness, but it would mostly be contained in the PRT about not being able to control him.

    Scenario 2: wait for them to come to you, then 'humiliate them'.
    Result: No panic, PRT mollified, thousands more dead from the massacres the S9 perpetuate in the meanwhile as they close in on Brockton. Questions why the MC didn't deal with them earlier if they are basically omnipotent, especially as their full capabilities are revealed. Blatant PR-move if it's easy.

    The fact of the matter, the MC has proven, time and time again that he believes PR and the appearance of stability trump human lives, even in the face of extinction. He's not that much better than the PRT really, at least on a broad scale. Somewhat hypocritical as a person at least. Between doing what's easy, and what is right, he chooses the former, almost every damn time. Remember, he hasn't shown an iota of being a villain, heroic all the way, maybe neutral. With minimal effort he could get rid of the S-clsss threats like the S9 or Moord Nag, but doesn't, for reasons.

    Similar logic applies to Coil. The MC comes to ever more ridiculous contrived lengths to not actually deal with threats like Coil. I mean, shit, he has no excuse, none at all, for not dealing with them. He's basically god at this point, I can't see him as anything but an imbecile for not, in 1.7 million words, dealing with basically any threat in totality. It's pretty pathetic.
     
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    Cookiesndip said:
    thousands more dead from the massacres the S9 perpetuate in the meanwhile
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    Your just blatantly spreading misinformation, and I can't imagine why either. In recent chapters it was shown that the S9 are being steered away from literally everyone. Anyone they encounter will be a puppet manned by Fleet.
    I'm not even going to address the rest of this post.
     
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    arromdee said:
    And with minimal effore Panacea can cure one more fatal disease.

    And we know where that leads.
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    Xalimur Spud said:
    Right now we are beating it's grave. It's already being buried (answered) and people still dig it up (bring it up) about it.
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    Speaking of DEATH, now that the Celestial Forge is an AFTERLIFE, can Tybalt use necromancy to collect the souls of fallen combatants (assuming he is there when they die) and bring them to the Celestial Forge?

    Once there, can the souls freely wander around the Celestial Forge as ghosts without needing to be contained inside bottles?

    That way, the Celestial Forge isn't limited to Apeiron-worshippers.
     
    drvash said:
    Speaking of DEATH, now that the Celestial Forge is an AFTERLIFE, can Tybalt use necromancy to collect the souls of fallen combatants (assuming he is there when they die) and bring them to the Celestial Forge?

    Once there, can the souls freely wander around the Celestial Forge as ghosts without needing to be contained inside bottles?

    That way, the Celestial Forge isn't limited to Apeiron-worshippers.
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    Tybalt would be the cutest psychopomp. Can the duplicates make him a little robe that hides his face in shadow?
     
    Xalimur Spud said:
    When if Tybalt get souls from the people he killed
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    I thought Tybalt can collect the souls of any slain in combat, not just people he personally killed. It'd give Joe a little flexibility so if Taylor gets herself killed in her anti-Coil crusade, Joe can shove her soul into a handcrafted golem body.

    Joe: (sighs) "Why did you agree to let Tybalt reap your soul?"
    Ghost-Regent: "It was either that or take my chances with the Judeo-Christian afterlife."

    Link: Afterlife
    Link: Petitioner
    Possible shout-out to 2e and 3e Dungeons&Dragon "Forgotten Realms" setting, where devil salesmen can bargain with souls awaiting judgment in the Hall of the Dead. Most souls refuse such an offer, but the wicked and faithless often agree to take a slightly-less-awful afterlife rather than risk eternal punishment from their Patron Deity.
     
    Cookiesndip said:
    Basic logic here.

    Scenario 1: kill the S9 immediately.
    Result: S9 dead, no more victims, perhaps some nervousness, but it would mostly be contained in the PRT about not being able to control him.

    Scenario 2: wait for them to come to you, then 'humiliate them'.
    Result: No panic, PRT mollified, thousands more dead from the massacres the S9 perpetuate in the meanwhile as they close in on Brockton. Questions why the MC didn't deal with them earlier if they are basically omnipotent, especially as their full capabilities are revealed. Blatant PR-move if it's easy.
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    They are murder hobos of the highest order and his power should ping off the fact that they're protected. He only has option one.
     
    Reading comprehension is not so good. Also, anyone that points out the word count is just providing free advertising that they just skim most of
    the story to begin with and like griping about it more than reading it.

    All and all, just Tuesday for Fanfiction criticism. Send out the tiny violin.
     
    B00ki5h said:
    They are murder hobos of the highest order and his power should ping off the fact that they're protected. He only has option one.
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    They are only "protected" in a few limited ways. Cauldron prevents normals from just shooting him and interfere with large-scale manhunts for them. Number Man himself prevents private affairs from doing similarly, because they are old friends. Finally, individual parahumans are blocked by Broadcast's master power. None of these are an issue for a precog-blocked money-independent non-shard tinker like Aperion.
     
    The reasons Lord gives for Joe, are . I think he should . So all in all you(that's right you reading this post) are correct and we should stop talking about it because there is no more to discuss. Why because you're right.
     
    Jordisk said:
    They are only "protected" in a few limited ways. Cauldron prevents normals from just shooting him and interfere with large-scale manhunts for them. Number Man himself prevents private affairs from doing similarly, because they are old friends. Finally, individual parahumans are blocked by Broadcast's master power. None of these are an issue for a precog-blocked money-independent non-shard tinker like Aperion.
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    Somewhat true, Shatterbird is a research subject, Siberian is kept around due to thoughts that they could be useful against Zion, and they're heading towards an area under observation due to the MC actions and the Butcher's presence. At this point it's less precog bullshit and more looking after a new fish tank. As is look in every time you walk past to make sure everything is still alive and running.
     
    Joe & Co; have basically scripted the final days of the S9, are trolling them with fake people for them to kill as to keep them pacified until Joe can be bothered with taking them out.
    "readers": BUT WHY NO S9 DIE YET?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? I am very intelligent!

    In more important news, I think this next chapter will end Monday, which means that soon after we'll enter Tuesday, featuring The Charity Event and The Anti-Teeth Actions kicking off, among some other plot threads mentioned in WoG, namely Bakuda's Deadman Switch being cracked!

    That's gonna be a fun arc, and we'll probably get a couple of alternative views of the battle. Hell, if things escalate enough for Kataclyzien to enter the fray we might even get a Tybalt Interlude! ...Probably not, but y'know, a gal can dream :p
     
    Cookiesndip said:
    Scenario 1: kill the S9 immediately.
    Result: S9 dead, no more victims, perhaps some nervousness, but it would mostly be contained in the PRT about not being able to control him.
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    You are vastly undeselling the reaction of... basically everyone. It wouldn't be "some nervousness from the PRT", it would be "everyone panic and lash out".

    If Apeiron kill the S9 right now, he would signal he is willing and able to kill villains that are far away from him. It would destroy his image of a reactive force, prove he cannot be precoged (by directly contradicting the precog models), and generally show himself as unpredictable.

    Cue everyone asking themselves "Am I next on his list ?". And shitting their pants.

    I also wish the story could move faster, but killing the S9 now is just stupid.

    Crake said:
    Reading comprehension is not so good. Also, anyone that points out the word count is just providing free advertising that they just skim most of
    the story to begin with and like griping about it more than reading it.
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    *sigh* Hard disagree. You can point out a flaw in a story and still enjoy said story.

    I think the story pacing would benefit a lot from tighter writting. You could probably cut the story wordcount by 30% and still keep all the relevant information for the plot.

    And I've read everything. In fact I can say that because I've read everything.

    As for why I stick to the story despite this flaw... in a way, this is one of the highest compliment I could give to a writer:

    "yeah, the pacing of your story suck, man. But I will still come back next week to get my fix because outside of that, your story is spectacularly well written. I'm willing to ignore what is usually a fatal flaw, a reason for me to drop a story, because you are just. that. good."
     
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    Nimeroni said:
    You are vastly undeselling the reaction of... basically everyone. It wouldn't be "some nervousness from the PRT", it would be "everyone panic and lash out".

    If Apeiron kill the S9 right now, he would signal he is willing and able to kill villains that are far away from him. It would destroy his image of a reactive force, prove he cannot be precoged (by directly contradicting the precog models), and generally show himself as unpredictable.

    Cue everyone asking themselves "Am I next on his list ?". And shitting their pants.

    I also wish the story could move faster, but killing the S9 now is just stupid.



    *sigh* Hard disagree. You can point out a flaw in a story and still enjoy said story.

    I think the story pacing would benefit a lot from tighter writting. You could probably cut the story wordcount by 30% and still keep all the relevant information for the plot.

    And I've read everything. In fact I can say that because I've read everything.

    As for why I stick to the story despite this flaw... in a way, this is one of the highest compliment I could give to a writer:

    "yeah, the pacing of your story suck, man. But I will still come back next week to get my fix because outside of that, your story is spectacularly well written. I'm willing to ignore what is usually a fatal flaw, a reason for me to drop a story, because you are just. that. good."
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    THIS. Right there. I agree.

    While I too would like to see the S9 dealt with, we're probably complaining more about it BECAUSE it they were brought to our attention in story, and the one action taken resembles nothing so much as a way to put it off for later without looking like the MC cares for innocent lives. It seems like a lot of steps to maintain a status quo (S9 keep existing exactly as they have, no confrontation with CF) when a permanent sollution seems easy to do. It's word of God/author that it would end bad doesn't ressonate well with the readers if the story itself doesn't clearly explain or provide too much evidence that the MC is indeed aware of it being a bad idea and why.


    On the other hand, while I love this story you cannot be against all critisism out of hand. And yes, I'm one of the people that is very aware of the pacing of the story and am bothered by it. I cannot help compare it to other stories that have at least as many words per week update, yet progress the story at a far greater pace without sacrificing quality. Every time a new perk is added it is as soon as possible disected and analysed, compared to every other perk and listed in full how everything interacts with each other before, and then again how it will interact with this new perk added. Possibly another paragraph or three of Joe considering how this might change his plans, Joe explaining things to Aisha, her misunderstanding before he goes into further detail, and them concluding that he really is overpowered.

    Possibly the best-paced chapters are those with other characters as the viewpoint character because the new perks don't break the flow. Even if they do rehash past events, just seen from different characters rather than Joe himself. I understand fleshing out the scene, but I have been able to reduce the content of a chapter to ten or so sentences (ignoring the explanations of the perk but not the gaining itself). Of course that would be dry and boring reading, and I like the interactions between everybody, the creativity with the powers etc. That is why I and many others keep coming back. But I do believe that after a certain point, when you've enough power that more just adds a bit of variety to the aesthetics rather than actual effectiveness, you can scale back the points gained by at least half, and drom the repeat explanations of powers already gained.

    I LOVE Brockton's Celestial Forge, it's one of my favorite fanfictions ever. I have mad respect for its author who is so creative and has managed to do an overpowered protagonist justice by giving him dificulties outside of battle, and limiting the actions he can take by societal restrictions that make somewhat sense...by giving him goals that can't just be achieved through mindless combat or power scaling. But take it from someone who has (and still does) struggled with overexplaining, repeating what was just said in a slightly different way etc. It can be worked on.
     
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