Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

I gotta admit, it's funny how Director Armstrong remarks on Apeiron spacing out, when he himself is taking like 20-40 seconds between every response as his internal dialogue catches up.

Imagine Joe just waiting in confusion as Armstrong stares blankly into nothing, silently monologuing about the intricacies of PRT politics and the implications of universal translators and the global response to the Celestial Forge, before responding to whatever Joe said half a minute ago.
 
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I gotta admit, it's funny how Director Armstrong remarks on Apeiron spacing out, when he himself is taking like 20-40 seconds between every response as his internal dialogue catches up.

Imagine Joe just waiting in confusion as Armstrong stares blankly into nothing, silently monologuing about the intricacies of PRT politics and the implications of universal translators and the global response to the Celestial Forge, before responding to whatever Joe said half a minute ago.
Joe: Is this my people?
 
I gotta admit, it's funny how Director Armstrong remarks on Apeiron spacing out, when he himself is taking like 20-40 seconds between every response as his internal dialogue catches up.

Imagine Joe just waiting in confusion as Armstrong stares blankly into nothing, silently monologuing about the intricacies of PRT politics and the implications of universal translators and the global response to the Celestial Forge, before responding to whatever Joe said half a minute ago.
I agree this is hilarious, but honestly it has more to do with how Lord's writing style. If you look at past interludes every character regardless of background, interest in a situation, education level, etc. pontificates at length about what is currently happening, why it's happening, how it effects them, what might happen next, and how all those elements will effect others on top of anything else on their mind or that could be relevant. Then they will say a sentence, someone will respond to that with a sentence, and they will process that information and repeat the above thought loop.

Looking at characters actions in vs out of interludes (including occasionally the same scene from a different point of view which shows what is happening in real time instead of while they are monologing to the audience) all characters are acting with extreme time acceleration to have necessary time to think about things so Lord can give exposition from every angle to avoid ever having a March situation again where the audience can't understand why things turned out how they did.
 
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I gotta admit, it's funny how Director Armstrong remarks on Apeiron spacing out, when he himself is taking like 20-40 seconds between every response as his internal dialogue catches up.

Imagine Joe just waiting in confusion as Armstrong stares blankly into nothing, silently monologuing about the intricacies of PRT politics and the implications of universal translators and the global response to the Celestial Forge, before responding to whatever Joe said half a minute ago.
There's a reason they immediately labeled Joe's behavior as a strategy trance 😄
 
I agree this is hilarious, but honestly it has more to do with how Lord's writing style. If you look at past interludes every character regardless of background, interest in a situation, education level, etc. pontificates at length about what is currently happening, why it's happening, how it effects them, what might happen next, and how all those elements will effect others on top of anything else on their mind or that could be relevant. Then they will say a sentence, someone will respond to that with a sentence, and they will process that information and repeat the above thought loop.

Looking at characters actions in vs out of interludes (including occasionally the same scene from a different point of view which shows what is happening in real time instead of while they are monologing to the audience) all characters are acting with extreme time acceleration to have necessary time to think about things so Lord can give exposition from every angle to avoid ever having a March situation again where the audience can't understand why things turned out how they did.
Tbh, I wish Lord would just make it a 3rd person narration.

Because it is very weird that everyone all the time is having in depth monologues consisting of thousands of words mid-conversation regardless of personality

And it is not a thing that actually happens when people talk.

I get that Roust needs a medium to convey the exposition on, but it'd be better off making it a detached narration than giving every person mental-superspeed and turning everyone into a philosophical-political deep thinker and expert.

Any pontification should be saved after the conversation is already done
 
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Looking at characters actions in vs out of interludes (including occasionally the same scene from a different point of view which shows what is happening in real time instead of while they are monologing to the audience) all characters are acting with extreme time acceleration to have necessary time to think about things so Lord can give exposition from every angle to avoid ever having a March situation again where the audience can't understand why things turned out how they did.
...I'm scared to go back and check if the writing was different pre the lung fight now
 
Seems like a too mundane a solution for the Forge. Like shoving parking into a car dimension would not be an difficult option. I think a portal system might be going the wrong direction
The issues I mentioned aren't solved by extra-dimensional parking though, they affect anything ressembling a fixed network of limited-capacity roads.
Sure, that assumption doesn't necessarily hold for tech so advanced it may as well be magic, but at that point keeping cars seems very contrived: for instance, if they were teleporting vehicles around, why not teleport passengers and cargo without a car?
(Plus, there are social and psychological reasons why all-car transit is bad for urban communities, from inequal access to travel socialization etc.)

My point was more, those are systemic issues we already know very well, and that do not require silly tech to solve; what I think makes them relevant in-story, aside from the city needing a great deal of (re)construction, is that it's a sort of problem which the forge's powers give a great deal of insight into and would enable solving through technically-mundane means (beyond gram's blessing of administration)

Granted, I'd still expect them to come up with some silly tech to build into buildings etc. but it's not (directly) affecting most of those problems.
 
...I'm scared to go back and check if the writing was different pre the lung fight now
The difference isn't how people speak, like I said Lord just writes like that. The difference is in the explanations, we used to have days pass by quicker in story. Now Joe needs to consider 20 factions worth of responses and each evening we need 1-5 interludes which cover what the PRT/Protectorate/Wards ENE, Chicago Wards, National Protectorate, New Wave, Elite, Balato, E88, Butcher etc. because otherwise when one side of a conflict make an action the viewers wouldn't understand why it's happening. (Notably before the ungodly hour there wasn't a PRT or Protectorate interlude nor an ABB one, so no one knew why the heroes weren't helping Joe or why Lung was going nuts due to March's manipulation) So in order to prevent that several dozen factions in the story needs constant check ins. We were supposed to have a Saint interlude several times already due to how important the "Dragon being mastered" plot is, but Lord can't bring himself to write from his PoV.
 
Does it have to be Saint? He might be able to get away with his teammates. I think Lord might have already given one of them an interlude.
It's not just saint for example there was going to be another crystal one after the charity event where she finished catching Amy up. These ones get cut tho because of the delays and things ballooning so they get dropped to avoid dragging things out any further for the day. Ironically things are actually speeding up because aside from the point gain being slower there are fewer events per day at the moment compared to around the rock where every day had over a dozen known when they started and at least half that for the following day which then rose up to it's own dozen while now it's a lot less.
 
Armstrong blinked. I took a moment for the words to fully register with him. "Excuse me?" He looked from the Matrix to Apeiron, but the tinker just smiled and looked to his teammate. "A bid for…"
The proud smile of fatherhood.

"My little baby undercutting his competition and scaring his customers with value. I am so proud."

The issues I mentioned aren't solved by extra-dimensional parking though, they affect anything ressembling a fixed network of limited-capacity roads.
Sure, that assumption doesn't necessarily hold for tech so advanced it may as well be magic, but at that point keeping cars seems very contrived: for instance, if they were teleporting vehicles around, why not teleport passengers and cargo without a car?
(Plus, there are social and psychological reasons why all-car transit is bad for urban communities, from inequal access to travel socialization etc.)

My point was more, those are systemic issues we already know very well, and that do not require silly tech to solve; what I think makes them relevant in-story, aside from the city needing a great deal of (re)construction, is that it's a sort of problem which the forge's powers give a great deal of insight into and would enable solving through technically-mundane means (beyond gram's blessing of administration)

Granted, I'd still expect them to come up with some silly tech to build into buildings etc. but it's not (directly) affecting most of those problems.
I mean shove all the cars into a car dimension that people would teleport back and forth from, as for keeping the cars that was mostly because I don't think people would want to get rid of them not because they would be relevant.

If the choice for decision makers is to have a hard social and political discussion with voters to deal the car centric nature of the United States or pay Apeiron pocket change to come up with a tech solution/ work of art that solves the issue in an excessive fashion for hundreds of years of no maintenence, the choice is clear.
 
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I'm curious what Joe gained memory wise from the Fallout perk. He understands prewar science, so presumably the "him" from Fallout would be a prewar scientist or something. So, did he gain memories of 2077 culturally 1950s America?
 
I'm curious what Joe gained memory wise from the Fallout perk. He understands prewar science, so presumably the "him" from Fallout would be a prewar scientist or something. So, did he gain memories of 2077 culturally 1950s America?

he has knowledge of ALL fallout tech,so he has to be alive also post nuke
scientist turned ghoul that spent the following centuries wandering and gathering knowledge?
 
he has knowledge of ALL fallout tech,so he has to be alive also post nuke
scientist turned ghoul that spent the following centuries wandering and gathering knowledge?
Ah, even more memories over extremely long time periods. Also probably traumatizing, maybe he could be like one of the guys from Big MT where he was a brain in a jar. Or he could pull a House. Also I just realized that Joe should have the implants from Fallout New Vegas, meaning he has non-invasive cybernetics that can do stuff like make you literally smarter.
 
Aren't Words of God by design really not adding anything to a story and, though no one admits it, fanfic fodder

Depends upon how much you like Death of the Author. If you want to stick to purely your interpretation of the written literature, sure, it doesn't add much. But if you like to know some behind-the-scenes information provided by the author who built the setting, WoG can be fun.

Of course, your mileage may vary depending upon the author. Some author's WoG can be really, really shitty. For the most part, I'd say Wildbow's WoG is cool, though a not so insignificant chunk of it can be depressing.
 
Depends upon how much you like Death of the Author. If you want to stick to purely your interpretation of the written literature, sure, it doesn't add much. But if you like to know some behind-the-scenes information provided by the author who built the setting, WoG can be fun.

Of course, your mileage may vary depending upon the author. Some author's WoG can be really, really shitty. For the most part, I'd say Wildbow's WoG is cool, though a not so insignificant chunk of it can be depressing.
Wildbow was also known to go through a couple of phases for his WoG. He had a my universe will be the strongest phase for example, so supposedly entities are able to do shit like fight high tier cultivators. When I say high tier I mean multiversal destroying reality warpers and shit btw. He also has some wog that seems to have been made just to fuck with people specifically. Some of it's good though.
 
Wildbow was also known to go through a couple of phases for his WoG. He had a my universe will be the strongest phase for example, so supposedly entities are able to do shit like fight high tier cultivators. When I say high tier I mean multiversal destroying reality warpers and shit btw. He also has some wog that seems to have been made just to fuck with people specifically. Some of it's good though.

Yeah he even went back on earlier wog that said the justice league could handle endbringers easily to say they win tho of course he did so by setting up a stupidly unfair scenario. It had the endbringers all appear on the league's earth and Ziz is given something like a year to study the world and set up Ziz bombs while hovering over a city but no-one from dc does any investigating of them or prep before Ziz gets to start the fight. He also has some that clearly are made to mess with people such as given the mathematican's answer of yes when people ask something like does this work like this or like that and one where h outright gives 4 possible answers to someone and then says the canon one is whichever they like the least.
 
Yeah, pretty much any WoG about an Endbringer is going to be depressing. Partly because of the seemingly versus debate mentality, (Endbringers have the mass of an entire galaxy, if you throw them into the sun it'll just make things worse, etc.) but it seems that according to the thematic writing Wildbow wants from the Endbringers, getting a solid win against them in a story is akin to writing them wrong from his view point.

It's... frustrating.

Wildbow even wrote about how if Superman ended up in the Wormverse, Superman would totally trigger from being disconnected from Lois and his family eventually, Scion would stop being depressed and feel motivated again since there's an alien to defend the cycle from, and Eidolon would feel so threatened by Clark, the next Endbringers would be specifically designed to perfectly counter Clark but also let Eidolon get pity wins.

Scion would also be able to try and convince the world that Clark is another Endbringer somehow?

Wildbow said:
Q by dlaudghks: Superman arrives in brockton bay when leviathan hits. How does worm change?

I'll stress that I don't know enough about Superman continuity to remark too much on the Rebirth version specifically, will just assume comic version with a high baseline strength.

Standard superman could probably drive Leviathan into submission. Maybe not kill, and hurling Leviathan is harder than one might imagine with the water echo materializing matter between the grip and the giant, variably hyperdense scaled beast, but for all intents and purposes the end result is the same: the fight might go worse initially, especially if Superman tries frost breath, but Leviathan is down and out, Brockton Bay doesn't take a fraction of the damage it did in-story.

And, as happened in-story, Scion is liable to show up further into the fight. Instead of delivering a look of disgust to Eidolon, he gives a great deal of attention to Superman.

Short term consequence: Brockton Bay is saved.

Medium-term consequence: the shard network begins producing Endbringers that Superman can't stop that Eidolon could. Superman is forced to work with the top heroes to understand what's going on, there's mass panic, and things might even go more smoothly, in the medium run. Eidolon gets to be more of a hero with worthy opponents (but the power drain starts accelerating). This may lean to Eidolon being forced to tap into the real power source and start draining capes. Cue some back and forth on morality and whether it's right, even when Eidolon limits himself to taking the lives and power reserves of capes who are already dying (maybe at first when they've given consent in advance, but throw in edge cases and Superman believing he can rescue people, and ramping pressure from the new Endbringers...), cue a few Eidolon vs. Superman conflicts. Eidolon's powers give him the strength he needs to match and even beat Superman - a worthy opponent without needing an Endbringer.

I do know that Rebirth Superman supposedly heavily emphasizes family and being a leader. Being cut off from Lois and his kids while also facing a world that's in pretty dire straits may strain and test him a lot on levels that have nothing to do with super strength.

Cauldron is liable to intervene on some level, if Superman is honest about his origins, and try to tap him as a resource, but he's also a reporter and in trying to figure everything out, he might start to zero in on the fact that Cauldron is sketchy.

Jack Slash gets stomped, Siberian gets found out and stopped, the worst major players get handled.

Long term consequences: Gold Morning doesn't happen in 2013.

At the end of the day, the very reason the entities have a Warrior and a Thinker is that they exist to forestall unknown factors. In the absence of the Thinker Eden, Cauldron did arise and while their end goals are different their ultimate functionality is very similar to Eden.

Eden exists to forestall those scenarios where people might figure out what's going on, band together, and work around the problem (as happened in story, more or less). We see her doing this in the alternate history where Eden is around. She also does the finer tuning of processes and adjusting of experiment/shard-host interactions as required to manage everything.

Scion exists to handle unexpected variables along the lines of weapons the people might produce that somehow get past the thinker, shard interactions that scale beyond the test, or... aliens from another world. Yeah, Scion exists specifically to combat and manage forces like Superman. In the medium and even the long term, dropping a Superman into the picture means that Scion has a reason to exist, one that goes to his core functioning, core purpose, where the lack thereof is his biggest weakness. Superman as an unknown variable is a valuable variable, and any attempts to get home may be forestalled - Tinker makes a gate, uses Superman's signatures or whatever to key a way home, and Scion shows up to Still it.

Depending, they may ultimately fight (and a less dejected Scion with a purpose reinforced by thousands of cycles is no slouch), or Scion may employ other mechanisms, using the broader cycle. Having Superman trigger and getting into his head & biology is definitely in the cards (especially when Supes is a family man that's potentially gone months or years without his family), and Scion as a trusted force calling Superman an Endbringer or going on the hard offense vs. Superman could in itself leave Superman with very few people willing to work with him. The trigger works if Scion needs that measure of control to manage this very powerful alien that's stampeding around the broader experiment, as is drawing more on the forces of the setting, like actively using the shard network with a hand on the rudder.

But in the end, Scion wants the cycle to continue and escalate, he wants to turn Superman into a caged beast that can contribute to the experiment, and he's equipped pretty much as a guard/management feature against superman isekais, with a fair few tools to handle even someone as strong as Superman. Invincibility penetrating shots (if he even deigns to shoot and doesn't just radiate that damaging influence in every direction, disintegrating any cover), back-end tools with the shard network, ability to step into other dimensions.

So Gold Morning doesn't happen because Scion doesn't throw a tantrum. His lack of motivation and vulnerable, undeveloped humanity are his biggest weaknesses and the introduction of Superman to the setting counteracts those. Scion as an Eden-less entity as a mirror to a family-less Superman should get the input and reference points he needs to develop more as a human being and figure out how to manage being bullied to death, and having a Superman around gives him a job to do.

Even being super generous to Superman, I think it'd be unfair to give him the win vs. Scion, given what Scion is. I wouldn't say it's impossible, but it's not a test of strength. It's a test of Superman being able to come to grips with the setting, Cauldron, getting past the various obstacles and come to terms with the morally grey and political aspects of the setting (Dragon's fetus pilots, seen with X-ray vision, the PRT as a managing force). At this point, though, you run aground on the 'narratively satisfying for a superman story' part and the fact that even with all that Scion is supposed to be able to handle superman isekais, even without the thinker.

Except if it's a comic. Then there's a solid chance the writers change at the midpoint or the last leg of the story, key character elements like Scion being what he is get thrown out the window, we get a rushed resolution, something about the entities being responsible for Krypton exploding, Superman gets angry, kills Scion, goes home, vaguely unsatisfying ending.

(Fuck, I'm still so frustrated over that happening with some of my favorite comic runs.)

I feel like Wildbow isn't satisfied unless things are written always in the style "And then things got worse."
 
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