Paths of Civilization

Are people planning to go Golden Age next turn?

Because I really want to.

Shard said:

Heroic Admin hasn't ever failed for us yet.

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Inspirit said:

Our Administrator Heroes are awesome, Genius ones must be epic and that would be fascinating to see.

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That is only true when they are king though.

Remember that our next King is stated to be the second place heir from our last choice
[] [Heir] A strong general is needed in these times (Mediocre Admin and Diplo, Excellent Martial)

So just like we got a malus now in war, despite having an Excellent and Genius Martial Hero, we would have a malus next turn despite having a Genius Admin.

Better to have a Heroic Heir instead. That still gives us a good chance at Heroic admin without any maluses.

Guys why are you choosing stallions? Gulvally is begging us to integrate them and there are nomads on the horizon.

Inserted tally

[X] [Mystic] Get assistance from a temple (-1 Mystic)
[X] [Hero] The smiths working overtime produced a prodigy (Heroic to Genius level artisan)
[X] [Prov] Integrate Stallions (-6 Diplo, +5 Econ, +5 Econ Expansion, +8 Mysticism, +4 Culture, +2 Tech, +10 Martial, new core province)
[X] [React] Megaproject - The Games
-[X] [React] Kick Megaproject
[x] [Policy] Innovation (Extra innovation roll each turn)
[X] [Policy] Special: Forestry (+1 Sustainable Forest and -1 Econ Expansion/2 turns)
[X] [Bonus] Gain a random value slot

Some modifications to my vote.

Quest said:

This is misinformation. It explicitly doubles only one passive policy or one active policy action. You can check the update we got it in.

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I thought that originally as well but this quote suggests otherwise.

Academia Nut said:

If you choose the Active Infrastructure Policy, you get 1 action doubled from Copper Age Law, and another 1 doubled from the Iron Age Law. Passive Infrastructure Policy, when chosen by the players, gives +2 progress/turn for each selection rather than +1/turn.

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"Each selection" implies no cap of 1 passive doubling.

...wait a minute.

Kings Do Not Kneel has a three attached to end of it. I think this means that it was unlocked through The King Still Stands triggering three times. Kings Do Not Kneel is probably the legacy we get at three(!) triggers.

What happens when we get two more?

[X] [Mystic] Search the entire kingdom for someone who might understand her and put her at ease (-1 Mystic, -1 Econ, -1 Wealth, -1 Culture)
[X] [Hero] The next heir was forged in this war (Guaranteed Heroic heir in the next main turn)
[X] [Prov] Integrate Gulvalley (-4 Diplo, +3 Econ, +8 Econ Expansion, +2 Mysticism, +3 Culture, +1 Tech, new core province)
[X] [Policy] Trade (+1 Wealth/turn)
[X] [Policy] Special: Vassal Support (+1 Subordinate while active, increases Loyalty while active at less than full subordinates)
[X] [React] Main Plant Poppies
[X] [Bonus] Upgrade a random value

Tempted to go for the genius artisan, but we need a heroic heir for when we conquer the HK. As some others have pointed out, planting poppies will provide diplo bonuses with the Khemetri. I am also choosing Trade policy so we will trade more with the Khemetri and avoid future wars. We will have to raise martial some other way next turn and hopefully found a new mercenary company.

Also, I highly recommend the Vassal Support policy so we can avoid civil wars.

Academia Nut said:

At the banquet in the evening, the king came up to the delegates from the People and asked if perhaps the commander at the Battle of Bloodvalley was among those present in the delegation. When informed that she was not, the king paused in contemplation before he said something that his translator had to ask if he actually wanted passed along. After confirming it so, the translator passed along the statement, "I am frightened, but aroused."

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Dude. Dude. One bro to another: Don't stick your dick in crazy.

Especially if they're hot.

Quest said:

This is misinformation. It explicitly doubles only one passive policy or one active policy action. You can check the update we got it in.

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Nope. edit: blackbird'd

Academia Nut said:

Passive Infrastructure Policy, when chosen by the players, gives +2 progress/turn for each selection rather than +1/turn.

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Hangwind said:

Dude. Dude. One bro to another: Don't stick your dick in crazy.

Especially if they're hot.

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Wellll he hasn't checked her out on the Hot-Crazy bell curve yet, so we can't quite make that decision yet.

maximillian said:

Guys why are you choosing stallions? Gulvally is begging us to integrate them and there are nomads on the horizon.

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This, and the fact that we have another 7 martial coming in from veterancy bonus, plus the 10 from the ST, plus the 3 we have right now, plus the 4 from WHR gives us a grand total of 24 martial at the start of next turn. Which would need, what, two mercenary companies to drain?

Like, can the people voting ST explain how they plan to get around that?

NewAgeOfPower said:

Snails are used for Dye, feeding our export economy. Right now we want Military, Tech, and Stability, so we can crush the local backstabbers in time to eat the Nomads for breakfast.

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I heard from a while back snail cultivation fosters sea-based industry like aqua farming and pearl growing. So another venue of food and wealth; and we almost never vote it in, like expand forest.

[X] [Mystic] Search the entire kingdom for someone who might understand her and put her at ease (-1 Mystic, -1 Econ, -1 Wealth, -1 Culture)

[X] [Prov] Integrate Gulvalley (-4 Diplo, +3 Econ, +8 Econ Expansion, +2 Mysticism, +3 Culture, +1 Tech, new core province)

[X] [Hero] One of the negotiators truly shone among the Khemetri (Heroic to Genius level diplomat)
[X] [Hero] Organizing all of this was hell, but one clerk refused to buckle (Heroic to Genius level administrator)


[X] [React] Megaproject - The Games
-[React] Kick Megaproject


[X] [Policy] Defence (+1 significant walls/turn) x1
[] [Policy] Special: Forestry (+1 Sustainable Forest and -1 Econ Expansion/2 turns)
[X] [Policy] Special: Vassal Support (+1 Subordinate while active, increases Loyalty while active at less than full subordinates)



[X] [Bonus] Free Main Proclaim Glory
[X] [Bonus] Free Main Build Theatre
[X] [Bonus] At least two technology upgrades (exploding rolls)

>That moment when you're starting a new analysis post and AN ninjas you with a new update

Hello and welcome to another episode of "zamin over analyses everything". I'm going to be looking at the last post (Epic Age VII - Fin) and not the one before it because I don't really have time to do a double analysis right now.

So...


Offer tribute (-5 Prestige, -10 Wealth, keeps King of the Hill, chance of +1 Stability)

When it came down to it, the offer of exchanging tribute for keeping their land and people and stopping the fighting was not terribly controversial. There were many who were passionate and angry at the prospect of rewarding those who had killed so many of their best and brightest, but ultimately the objective of the war was to get the Khemetri to back off, and if this did it, then this did it. Even if they were as treacherous as the Highlanders, it would give the People at least a generation to weep their tears and recover from their losses.

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Well, it looks like everyone's finally willing to back off and stop fighting. We only had to lose a hundred thousand people for it to happen.

Thus it was that the People gathered together the greatest diplomatic mission in their history, loading up a fleet of longships with all the finest goods they have to offer. Sailing them down the River Hat, they were then hauled across the passes and into Gulvalley, where they set sail down the River Gul, into Khemetri territory. At the end of the River Gul lay a great sea, one said to be endless, and they sailed along the coast south, hopping from town to town until they reached the mouth of another great river and sailed inward.

What a land they beheld! Endless leagues of desert on either side of what was perhaps the greatest river in the world, but every last scrap of fertile land upon the banks of the river was either under cultivation or housed a great city. None perhaps as great as even Redshore, but as they sailed for days on end in the endless water road, the diplomats of the People knew that even though they had their own great works back home, the Khemetri were at least their peers and both sides could have simply kept throwing bodies at each other and made little headway past their respective colonies. Especially since they both had river or sea access from their core territories but the territory in between was rugged hills with only a few controllable passes, which meant that both would have been hard pressed to strike the core territories of the other. At best they would have been able to peel of a colony or two or humiliate the opposition, but actually bringing them to their knees would have been nearly impossible.

And then the mountains came into view. At first the sailors and diplomats could not believe their eyes, but sitting upon a stony plateau in the midst of the great city that was the capital of the Khemetri there were a trio of dazzling white triangles, each of their tips blazing like beacons under the hot southern sun. Clearly made by the hands of man, the mind faintly boggled at the sheer scale of the monstrously huge things. They looked more like the creations of gods than men, and with the royal palace complex sitting in the shadow of these works, it was easy to see how kings might think that they could take on any foe with little effort.

The diplomats were lead into a massive complex - part palace, part temple, part small city - where they were lead into buildings of smoothly cut and polished sandstone and limestone covered in carvings, no doubt telling the deeds of past kings and gods. Stone pillars taller than trees reached for the heavens - indeed, in one part of the complex this was almost literal, for the roof was black painted plaster with gemstones pressed into the ceiling in the positions of the great stars in the sky - and the pure scale of it all left the delegates of the People feeling very, very small. Finally they arrived at an enormous courtyard of white stone pillars and tiles surrounding a pool of clear water, that through some architectural magic seemed to sustain a bubble of cool air in the ferocious desert heat. Courtiers in fine white linens and cotton watched in interest, while the way forward was flanked by rows of hard faced warriors in gleaming bronze. Sitting upon a massive throne of stone decorated in blue gemstones and surrounded by servants and exotic animals was the King of the Khemetri.

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Yowza. That's a lot of ships to be delivering our tribute. And it looks like the Khemetri have been doing some wonder spamming of their own.

Also, we've just realized that there's basically no way either of us could have truly defeated the other due to the sheer distance involved. If we'd kept fighting, we might have been able to take a colony or two, but honestly it would have just turned into a bloody, painful clusterfuck all around.

Lord Djebipt, Master of All, the Sun Made Flesh, He Who Makes the Waters Flow.

Reshemhetari.

Through translators the groups greeted each other, and the young prince turned king was saddened to say that his father had passed away unexpectedly shortly after he had arrived home with the news of the negotiated truce, but that this also made his acceptance of their tribute all the simpler. For one, he required no convincing that they had earned their place in attendance in his court. While not superior to the Khemetri, the People were to be acknowledged of as peers and, if they would have it, brothers as well. While his own children were not yet of age to marry, the king had many sisters who would make a fine wife or concubine for the king of the People.

What then followed was something of an explanation of the People's politics, much to the obvious confusion of everyone in attendance, before Reshemhetari answered rather candidly -and was translated with some confusion-, "I have many sisters, but I shall work to ensure the issue is compensated for as well as possible for the next generation."

From the happy looks on a few noble's faces, it was suspected that a few families were about to get a female voice very close to the ear of the king

It seemed that when told that there was no single royal family for the Khemtri king to marry into, the obvious solution was to marry into all of the People's noble families. The diplomats suspected incoming shenanigans that would be popularized by pottery artists and playwrights lacking in dignity. In any case, as the tribute was piled up for the king, they all noticed the way that one of his eyes was twitching slightly. While they were all pretty obviously amazed by the works of his people, for the man who had commanded one half of the Battle of Bloodvalley to see his former enemies piling up several hundred ox-weights of silver, salt, dye, tin, glass jars with mercury, and a few sets of gilded scale - militarily inconsequential but an obvious show of wealth and prestige - and he knew that if he sailed north he would find a kingdom that was peer to his own.

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Nice to be acknowledged as peers, though I'm a little amused about his attempt to stick his relatives into our royal family - namely because we don't have one. Of course, then he realizes that he could just marry into all of our noble families at once, which is probably going to lead to shenanigans in the future.

Edit: Ooh. I think I see what he's doing. By tying his royal family to ours, it becomes less likely that the Khemetri would pick a fight with us in the future because from their point of view we'll have divine kings as well.

And it seems that by coming over to show off our bling, we've managed to convince them that we really aren't worth messing with.

At the banquet in the evening, the king came up to the delegates from the People and asked if perhaps the commander at the Battle of Bloodvalley was among those present in the delegation. When informed that she was not, the king paused in contemplation before he said something that his translator had to ask if he actually wanted passed along. After confirming it so, the translator passed along the statement, "I am frightened, but aroused."

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top kek.

I know the feeling, buddy.

Legacy Gained
Kings Do Not Kneel (Three): Gain +1 Martial every phase during a Take the Crown or Great Power war
Gain +2 Diplo -> Overflows to +2 Culture

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*Cackles evilly*

Wow, so now we're becoming even more suited to long, drawn out wars. Next time some lesser power tries to backstab and white peace us I'm probably going to vote to just keep going and grind their faces into the dirt.

Far away, not knowing the developments his diplomats were getting up to, King Desdydyn was sitting with Yenyna, quietly observing her. While he felt distinctly bad for her, it was impossible to say that her affliction had not been of tremendous good for the kingdom. There were even a few who were whispering that perhaps they should see to breeding her like a sacred cow or war horse. The idea repelled Desdydyn, a man who had grown up surrounded by similar people to the Dragon General and who knew how damaging trying to impose things upon those who had suffered spiritual damage of some sort could be. However, there was a fascinated flicker within him that disgusted him of the fact that it would be absolutely fascinating to see if her spiritual skills could be passed down to her children. Although, he suspected that what the poor girl really needed was someone who could be her companion and truly understand her. That sort of search could be... interesting, to say the least. The kingdom owed her a significant debt though, so it might be worth it.

Especially if, as the guilty part of his mind kept whispering to him, they found a nice man she could understand and their babies had some of her genius.

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Heroic Mystic King looking over a spiritually damaged Genius Martial, what might that do?
[] [Mystic] Study her condition only slightly
[] [Mystic] Get assistance from a temple (-1 Mystic)
[] [Mystic] Search the entire kingdom for someone who might understand her and put her at ease (-1 Mystic, -1 Econ, -1 Wealth, -1 Culture)

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Ah, this is definitely a bit of a sensitive subject.

On one hand, I really want her to have a chance to be happy. On the other, I do share Desdydyn's wariness of setting up some kind of weird breeding program. Finding her a companion should be fine. While personally I doubt we can find someone who can overlook her... issues, the fact that we're at least trying to make her happy would definitely set a good precedent.

The Trials of an Age are ending, but the cauldron still boils with the spark of genius. Pick another hero
[] [Hero] The next heir was forged in this war (Guaranteed Heroic heir in the next main turn)
[] [Hero] The smiths working overtime produced a prodigy (Heroic to Genius level artisan)
[] [Hero] The battlefield created a peerless medic (Heroic to Genius level medical mystic)
[] [Hero] One of the negotiators truly shone among the Khemetri (Heroic to Genius level diplomat)
[] [Hero] Organizing all of this was hell, but one clerk refused to buckle (Heroic to Genius level administrator)
AN: Incidentally, guess what the Khemetri used this turn's hero bonus on?

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EEEEEEE!!!

So. Many. Good. Choices.

Not just Heroes. We have a chance to get Genius level people now. I just hope that aren't all as... eccentric as Beserker-Dragon-chan. I'm personally kinda torn between Diplomat, Artisan and Administrator. Diplomat could cement our friendship with the Khemetri, Artisan could let us crack into steel, and Administrator... well, Administrators are always good for us. I'm kinda intrigued by what a medical mystic hero would be like, but these three are at the top of my list.

As for the Khemetri, I'm gonna guess that they grabbed an Admin or Diplo hero to try to stabilize their nation and keep it from falling apart. Leaning towards Diplo due to all the marriage shenanigans that they're trying this turn.

Beyond those concerns, there was also a question about reconstruction efforts. Gulvalley had been utterly ravaged, and while supplies were being directed in, the governor was rather desperate for further assistance, and was willing to surrender a number of rights in order to get that. Many clerks also noted that between the Trelli colony and the Khemetri colony, Gulvalley was going to be rather limited in how much it could expand anyway. Revoking its charter as a colony and integrating it as a province proper could solve a number of problems. Then again, the concentrated forces of the Stallions could be reworked across the territory of the People, replenishing the depleted ranks of warriors of the People. They could potentially also tap some of the warriors in the colonies in a mass resettlement.

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I can see why the regional governor is feeling stressed. Not only was he ground zero for the biggest battle in history, he's now stuck between Khemetri on one side and Trelli on the other, which makes it hard for him to expand anywhere.

Reorganize provinces?
[] [Prov] Integrate Gulvalley (-4 Diplo, +3 Econ, +8 Econ Expansion, +2 Mysticism, +3 Culture, +1 Tech, new core province)
[] [Prov] Integrate Stallions (-6 Diplo, +5 Econ, +5 Econ Expansion, +8 Mysticism, +4 Culture, +2 Tech, +10 Martial, new core province)
[] [Prov] Draw on Provinces (-4 Diplo, -8 Econ Expansion, transfers a total of 8 Martial and 8 Econ from periphery states into the core)
[] [Prov] Rebuild Army first (Main Raise Army)
[] [Prov] Leave the situation be for the moment

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Hmm... Gulvalley would probably be better as a province, but we've been putting aside the Stallions for a long time now. I'm a little torn, honestly.

Then there was the question of what to do with all of the economic activity that had been freed up recently, and where to direct expansion. The paying out of the Khemetri and the final pay for the Trelli mercenaries before they had left back for their home after being reduced to about a third of their original strength had left coffers throughout the kingdom on the low side, and many patricians were rather annoyed about that. There were definite grumblings about improving that situation, although for quite a few patricians it wasn't just about the money. There was a push for Redshore to receive extra funds for completing the aqueduct they were working on, with another patrician group looking for getting the experts after to work on a site in Redhills where they wanted the aqueduct for both irrigation purposes and to drive mills for the iron mines in the region. The blacksmiths were also apparently starting to cook up something and needed both the iron mines and the mills in close proximity to each other.

However, there was also some commentary about how the People had suffered so much in the last war because they had not been to war for some time and had thus not gone to battle with the best. While war was obviously bad and they shouldn't pick fights just to stay in shape, there was some suggestion that if perhaps the trained more extensively, maybe had some fake wars, maybe that would help keep them in top fighting shape? And with all of the fresh veterans available right now, perhaps they could make these games the best they could be?

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Oh man. I kinda feel bad for the Trelli now. Then I remember that they're a bunch of slaving assholes and I just get a little smug.

"Wait, we lost how much Martial?! What the hell happened? It was barely even half a turn!"

"Oh, and here's your pay. 3 whole Wealth. Enjoy."

"FUUUUUU-"

Closer to home, the Mega-Corps Guilds are grumbling a bit because our treasury is a little low. But the interesting bit is that everyone's discussing what we need to do next.

Pick a Reaction Project
[] [React] Build more aqueducts (-2 & -3 Econ to complete aqueducts in Redshore and Redhills)
[] [React] Main Build Glassworks
[] [React] Main Expand Econ
[] [React] Main Expand Snail Cultivation
[] [React] Main Expand Vineyard
[] [React] Main Plant Poppies
[] [React] Megaproject - The Games
-[React] Kick Megaproject

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So to sum up, we can...

Build Aqueducts. Start churning out cities.

Build Economy/Weath stuff to produce more shiny.

Get to work on The Games. We're getting hints that now's a good time to do it.

Hmm... tough call. I'm leaning towards Games, but I know that's because I love them Mega-Projects. Whatever happens, I do want to finish it soon while we still have a lot of veterans hanging around.

Pick Two Passive Policies (Infrastructure x1 + Defence x1 already active
[] [Policy] Agriculture (+1 Econ and -1 Econ Expansion/turn)
[] [Policy] Diplomacy (+1 Diplo/turn)
[] [Policy] Trade (+1 Wealth/turn)
[] [Policy] Armament (+1 Martial/turn)
[] [Policy] Patronage (+1 Culture/turn)
[] [Policy] Mysticism (+1 Mysticism/turn)
[] [Policy] Industry (+1 Tech/turn)
[] [Policy] City Support (2 True Cities have their maintenance paid for each turn)
[] [Policy] Expansion (So long as there is land to expand into, +1 Econ Expansion/turn, reduces threshold to produce new provinces the longer active)
[] [Policy] Innovation (Extra innovation roll each turn)
[] [Policy] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn) x1
[] [Policy] Defence (+1 significant walls/turn) x1
[] [Policy] Special: Forestry (+1 Sustainable Forest and -1 Econ Expansion/2 turns)
[] [Policy] Special: Vassal Support (+1 Subordinate while active, increases Loyalty while active at less than full subordinates)

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Once we get more Cities, City Support will be good. Right now I'm kinda leaning towards Innovation, Infrastructure, Defense or Forests.

Pick a bonus for retaining King of the Hill in a Great Power War
[] [Bonus] Gain a random value slot
[] [Bonus] Upgrade a random value
[] [Bonus] Free Main Proclaim Glory
[] [Bonus] Free Main Build Theatre
[] [Bonus] At least two technology upgrades (exploding rolls)

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Yowza. Nice bonuses. It's good to be King.

Right now our Stability is at 2, so I'm not so concerned about the Proclaim Glory. The chance to gain or upgrade a value is just way more valuable. The tech upgrades are also intriguing, but it's a bit more dependent on the dice rolls.

Before I vote:


Huh. People are actually going for the Games? Alright, cool. I won't feel guilty for voting for it after all.

My votes:

[X] [Mystic] Search the entire kingdom for someone who might understand her and put her at ease (-1 Mystic, -1 Econ, -1 Wealth, -1 Culture)
[X] [Hero] The smiths working overtime produced a prodigy (Heroic to Genius level artisan)
[X] [Prov] Integrate Stallions (-6 Diplo, +5 Econ, +5 Econ Expansion, +8 Mysticism, +4 Culture, +2 Tech, +10 Martial, new core province)
[X] [React] Megaproject - The Games
-[X] [React] Kick Megaproject
[X] [Policy] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn) x1
[X] [Policy] Special: Forestry (+1 Sustainable Forest and -1 Econ Expansion/2 turns)
[X] [Bonus] Upgrade a random value

Reasoning:
- Berserker-Dragon-chan helped us out a lot. I'd feel really bad if we didn't try our best to make her happy
- I think getting a Genius Artisan right after building the Arsenal would let us finally unlock steel. Getting an Admin guy would be good too, though
- The Stallions have been allowed to run wild for long enough. It's time we brought them back into the fold. Also, they give us more stuff then Gulvalley.
- Shiny? Shiny. When has a Mega-Project ever let us down? We can finish it by the end of the turn. I'm amused at the possible Khemetri reaction when they get a "The Ymaryn have just completed a Mega-Project" pop up. Also, we're getting hints that now's a good time for it anyway, so...
- Need to get more stuff built up. Infrastructure lets us build up faster, while picking Forestry would allow us to finally start the Grand Docks sooner rather then later
- Was kinda tempted by the new value slot, but upgraded values are better then base values.

Golden Eyed King said:

Next time though actually post some info instead of being condescending with just 3+7=10

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a shitton of people had been arguing that we need to increase the martial earlier, apparently unaware of the +7 from veteran. I had assumed that you were one of those people. Sorry.

Wow, a lot happened right after I went to bed.

Academia Nut said:

You could probably swing it as a degree of "They have acknowledged our superiority, but we have deigned to let them 'buy' up the land we already claimed. Wasn't very useful anyway so we obviously get so much more with this nice tribute. What, yes, I know that they seem quite impressive, but even though we totally would have won if we had kept going it really wasn't worth it. Now, check out the cool shit they gave me like this vial of mercury! Isn't it awesome?"

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The polite fiction that greases the interaction of great empires.
Both sides had to learn this thing because unlike fights at smaller scales, war to the knife simply wasn't going to happen.

I'm quite pleased at the end state here. Look at the possible outcomes of the war:
-We lose Hatvalley and Gulvalley. Divine Stewards goes apeshit.
-We win and take their colony. This gives us a giant unfortified border
--If the Khemtri shatter as a result, the Mediterranean suffers a bronze age cascade failure. We can expect this colony, being likely coastal, to suffer endless waves.
--If the Khemtri don't shatter, they're going to be back on a Reclaimation CB later on

Or the current lead:
-We lose 2 turns of passive wealth income/1 turn of active income. We maintain our current borders. The next Khemtri clash will still be in the easy to defend valley system. We have the time to either break the Highlanders, or at least secure a more defensible border. The Khemtri gives us greater access to the spice trade than we could squeeze through the Trelli.

Academia Nut said:

The companies folded into each other due to depletion. They are likely to abandon this campaign at the first opportunity.

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Trelli Mercs: "This was a mistake."

DakkaMania said:

If the Khemetri are anything like Egypt, they will have tremendous trouble getting the fuel to forge all that iron.

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Uh...Egypt was pretty verdant. You might want to look at their massed archers. That's not something produced by a wood poor civilization.

Azel said:

Mind you, he will try to overthrow his father. There is no guarantee that he will succeed in that.

He might fail and we get the whole Khemetri army shoved at us, because their crazy belief system converts the whole debacle into us bewitching his beloved son and heir with our vile demon magic.
He might succeed and everything is dandy.
He might succeed at killing daddy, but fail at stabilizing the realm.

I'm hoping for the third to be honest.

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There's no bad outcome here:
-He kills his father and we have a relatively friendly Khemri god-king in charge who'd be rebuilding legitimacy.
-He fails to kill his father, which triggers succession because their King just lost his Heroic heir and woo~

Rakuhn said:

A piece of bronze equipment is superior to a piece of iron equipment. They had enough bronze that they could equip their entire army with it. Switching to iron would make them less dangerous.

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Not true actually. They had enough bronze to give everyone a bronze weapon, but metal armor was reserved for their elites, while our entire force had metal weapons and armor.

Alectai said:

To be fair, Yenya is... Uh, kind of bugfuck crazy. Her magic is obscenely powerful, but I'm not entirely sure if she's even capable of reproducing.

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Do not stick it in the crazy?

Rakuhn said:

First and foremost: Why use a main action for the integration instead of a secondary action? Using a main just accelerates the action by half of a turn.

Secondly, I seem to remember AN saying that the North would not appreciate either of our marches being integrated whenever we are under threat by a nomad waaaagh.

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Depends. If we form a Mercenary company next turn and deploy it to the North they'd be mollified. They'd object if we just stripped their defenders of course.

Citino said:

@Academia Nut how are the Trelli likely to react to losing 2/3rd of their mercenaries?

Actually, does anyone know if we paid for them upfront? Or was that supposed to take effect once a full turn passed?

Because it would be hilarious if we hired 3 of their companies, got 2 of them killed, and then only had to pay for one. :lol

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IIRC historically mercenary companies weren't paid if they died. The contract was directly with the company, not their sponsor state
That's why most companies were very careful about what wars they engaged in, and tended to run away if they start losing.

notgreat said:

Not only that- a massive percentage of the Trelli trade wealth was from acting as a middleman between us and the Khemetri.

We don't need that anymore now that we've directly met.

The Trelli are definitely the losers of this war, especially if we set up that trade post.

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Big time.
They lost 2/3 of their mercenary armies that made them the premier slaving power of the region.
Their two biggest trade partners have a direct portage route to each other.

SpeckofStardust said:

:lol
I am fairly confident that the Trell are not going to hit us if only because they are likely the only other power that can likely piece together just how massive the fight was.
I doubt they can even field the numbers = to the number that we lost much less the amount we could field and they likely know those numbers.

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We've already learned the Trelli can't hit us. Waging war against us would destroy them economically whether they win or lose.

Citino said:

? Yes it is. I mean, pure realism is usually considered mostly unworkable in the modern day, I believe, but the idea that nations only act for their own interest, and as such idealistic acts such as trying to achieve good will or friendship between nations does not work actually is a valid one.

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However, while it's true, acting like it's true simply leaves you fighting everyone at once. The illusion of possible peace makes you more able to defend your interests in turn.

Lasting friendships between nations are possible, mainly if their heartlands are far from each other. Oceans are great for that.

pbluekan said:

[*]Defensive Infrastructure - We have expanded a lot recently, and we had some large incursions into one of our peripheral states. We can't do. I have about that, but having strong defenses behind them will allow us to avoid worrying about our core and leave us better able to focus on the outside. War is something we are going to have to really keep an eye on in the near future. Iron has spread widely among our neighboring rivals and they will all be gunning for us now that they can meet us on more equal terms.

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Further clarification on this matter:
-Our border states have universal Minor walls and decent Significant walls. This is enough in the bronze age, but we want universal Significant walls and Massive walls at strategic targets before someone with Siegecraft tries to have a go at us.
-Our border states have very poor Watchtower coverage, which means that our reaction ability to incursions will suffer, as we've seen in the recent war. Enemies can't necessary breach cities, but without the early warning towers provide our countryside assets cannot be protected.

Just to clear up the whole thing with both sides of defense claims.

[*]Governors Palace - The Western Wall was going to build their own palace for administrative reasons, but it was planned for a pretty out of the way spot as far a step our core territories are concerned. We need to build one somewhere it allows them to use but is close enough to avoid them gaining any more independence or drifting away politically and culturally.

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I don't believe we can actually prevent this, because it's actually a very logical place to put it, with so much of the Western Wall exposed to Nomads. Putting your administrative center in the mountains instead of depending on leadership that can be cut off by a horde is critical.

[*]Highlanders - I don't actually agree with this. There is some movement towards trying to vassalize the Highlanders and a lot of people do want this. Using our genius general while she's alive is likely a good idea.

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I'd note the practical side of this is that it's one of the only landgrabs which shrink the length and improves the defensibility of our borders.

And also we've had it up to here with that last stunt.

Abby Normal said:

More importantly, even if they didn't capture any of oru blacksmiths, they almost certainly captured a hell of a lot of iron tools, and now know that its possible to smelt it in large numbers...they almost certainly have the manpower and skilled smiths needed to work that out by the next time we fight.

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Ironworking doesn't spread that way. Recall that it took 6-10 turns of dedicated research to break through to Iron from Iron Samples, even for the dedicated metallurgists in the Metalworkers.

Smelting iron is not simple. The key steps are:
-Identifying the ore <- Captured iron tools can do this
-Building a refractory furnace. Trial and error only.
-Attaining sufficient furnace heat. Requires a lot of fuel and furnace tech.
-That moment when you discover that simply heating the ore until it melts(which is done for Silver, Lead, Copper and Bronze) gives you uselessly hard and unworkable metal.

The thing with a bronze tech base is that you didn't really need that much heat to work it.
If you capture raw iron, if you dedicated your effort and had highly intellectual traits, you could pull it off in the 6-10 turn scale.
If you capture live smiths, you could cut this down to 3-5 turn scale because you already know the dead end at the very end and the ore identification problem at the front.
You have to capture smelters to actually get anywhere.

Citino said:

You know, one good part of this war?

It made clear to all our periphery states why the kingdom is necessary. Even the Txolla are maxed loyalty. Only the HH aren't, and they still are sitting at a cool 4 loyalty.

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"Sure, you can deal with things on your own most of the time, but when GODzilla shows up, you want the ability to summon a Dragon by combining all your powers."

Sivantic said:

Yes, as Tryar said, Academia has stated that the two are not connected. Misty River is too small and tumultuous to use properly. The Canal itself is not connection either.

Article:

The canal links the hills above Valleyhome to the Snake River, the one that connects to Redshore and the Not!Blacksea. It does not connect the rivers.

You can also see how it works in the post of Common Turn,

IIRC the Misty river is so called precisely because it runs over a lot of rough water, making the titular mist.

Umi-san said:

@Sivantic IIRC he said we *can* connect them by improving the canal when we get enough tech to do so and are willing to throw bodies/dynamite in order to do so

though whether we would want the perturbations in the river that would result from making the canal and having water drawn out via a lock system is debatable, imo.

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The disruption would probably not be too bad unless the lock system fails. Then !!Fun!! ensues.

Malevolo said:

Anyway, people, i had a random thought, and i think that the Forestry and Charcoal Guild are within the most powerful within the kingdom, because every high quality guild needs them.

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I hope they count Expand Forest as a Guild Action in that case.
@Academia Nut?

Still, historically the 'raw material' guilds didn't tend to do very well on inter-guild standings. They employed a lot of people, but they produced bulk, cheap materials, which often had the price controlled by the state to keep the economy going.

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Ghostdevil said:

Wellll he hasn't checked her out on the Hot-Crazy bell curve yet, so we can't quite make that decision yet.

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She is an inexplicably pale waifish beauty in the Levant/Middle East. She's pretty far up there on the Hot scale. ;P

maximillian said:

Guys why are you choosing stallions? Gulvally is begging us to integrate them and there are nomads on the horizon.

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Citino said:

This, and the fact that we have another 7 martial coming in from veterancy bonus, plus the 10 from the ST, plus the 3 we have right now, plus the 4 from WHR gives us a grand total of 24 martial at the start of next turn. Which would need, what, two mercenary companies to drain?

Like, can the people voting ST explain how they plan to get around that?

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This, this, and this. We don't even -care- about integrating those guys right now, Heaven's Hawks are the March that are actually at risk of causing problems and need to be brought to heel, the Stallions have been perfectly loyal/reasonable over the past however many turns. There's some value drift but they have damn well come through for us when we needed them to. We do not need to integrate them at all unless things drastically change.

[X] [Mystic] Search the entire kingdom for someone who might understand her and put her at ease (-1 Mystic, -1 Econ, -1 Wealth, -1 Culture)
[X] [Hero] The smiths working overtime produced a prodigy (Heroic to Genius level artisan)
[X] [Prov] Integrate Stallions (-6 Diplo, +5 Econ, +5 Econ Expansion, +8 Mysticism, +4 Culture, +2 Tech, +10 Martial, new core province)
[X] [React] Megaproject - The Games
[X] [Policy] Special: Forestry (+1 Sustainable Forest and -1 Econ Expansion/2 turns)
[X] [Bonus] Upgrade a random value

maximillian said:

Guys why are you choosing stallions? Gulvally is begging us to integrate them and there are nomads on the horizon.

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Because Gulvally is far & not directly connected to core and wiped out in economic and industry, so i'm supporting them with policy to get them on the recovery path.

Eating them now is distracting from preparing against possible nomads. We can use ST resources more effectively than ST can use their resources.

Spectrum said:

She is an inexplicably pale waifish beauty in the Levant/Middle East. She's pretty far up there on the Hot scale. ;P

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But shes sees crows and shit so shes ALSO quite far on the Crazy scale...

[X] [Mystic] Search the entire kingdom for someone who might understand her and put her at ease (-1 Mystic, -1 Econ, -1 Wealth, -1 Culture)

Happy ending? Well we can try at least.

[x][Hero] Organizing all of this was hell, but one clerk refused to buckle (Heroic to Genius level administrator)

Our strength is building our core. We can overrun the little shits with sheer martial might and mercenaries. I'd rather our center stayed strong and kept growing even during the war over a quicker or more bloodless victory.

[X] [Prov] Integrate Gulvalley (-4 Diplo, +3 Econ, +8 Econ Expansion, +2 Mysticism, +3 Culture, +1 Tech, new core province)

I'm assuming we can't integrate both, otherwise I'd like both integrations. Still, it seems better to live up to our side of the agreement immediately and to best effect now. The Stallions are still a useful bulwark against nomads even we can't integrate them.

[X] [React] Megaproject - The Games
-[X] [React] Kick Megaproject

Frankly, I'd rather plant poppies. But I understand the concept, and if it's going to be so distracting better to get it out of the way now so we can get down to real work next turn.

[X] [Policy] Defence (+1 significant walls/turn) x1
[X] [Policy] Special: Forestry (+1 Sustainable Forest and -1 Econ Expansion/2 turns)

Defence is necessary to fortify our core and the integrated Gulvalley. Our ability to face tank enemy armies has been one of our main strengths, better to grow it. Forestry is preparation for steel and frankly, I think forests just tend to work with us.

[X] [Bonus] Upgrade a random value

A bit more ambivalent here, but strong values are more than just large gains. They tie our culture together and give us direction. At least that's my opinion.

@notgreat
"with another patrician group looking for getting the experts after to work on a site in Redhills where they wanted the aqueduct for both irrigation purposes and to drive mills for the iron mines in the region. The blacksmiths were also apparently starting to cook up something and needed both the iron mines and the mills in close proximity to each other."
we maybe should wait on the poppies

zamin said:

"Oh, and here's your pay. 3 whole Wealth. Enjoy."

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Better.

1 whole wealth.

Only one company survived.

Hangwind said:

Dude. Dude. One bro to another: Don't stick your dick in crazy.

Especially if they're hot.

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Ehh as long you know you'll never see them again you can do it once.