Remove ads

Paths of Civilization

Reader mode
So, what are our priorities for the upcoming turns?
  • Centralization - This dropped pretty low in the last midturn and we could definitely spring for some road expansions to get our cent tolerance increase up.
  • Stallion Tribe integration - This is still an ongoing necessity in order to avoid firer separation and drift.
  • Txolla Influence/Integration - They are pretty loyal at the moment, but they aren't much like us philosophically and culturally. I'm sure, though, that turning the TH/TS into paste really helped. We do, however, need to start eating them.
  • Tech Increase - We learned two things about tech recently. It affects our innovation rolls, so negative values are rather bad and can cause tech loss. It is used quite widely in wildcat innovation rolls actions. This makes it immensely valuable.
  • Metal Innovation - Errbody has iron. We need steel. We're close with case hardening, but not quite there.
  • Defensive Infrastructure - We have expanded a lot recently, and we had some large incursions into one of our peripheral states. We can't do. I have about that, but having strong defenses behind them will allow us to avoid worrying about our core and leave us better able to focus on the outside. War is something we are going to have to really keep an eye on in the near future. Iron has spread widely among our neighboring rivals and they will all be gunning for us now that they can meet us on more equal terms.
  • Northern Trade Post - This is still a major consideration culturally (because big trees) and politically. There are two very valuable trade goods there and an otherwise untapped market. Wealth is more valuable than ever given how we burned through ours in a single turn, and any possibility for innovation that will further our other advantages should be grabbed.
  • Governors Palace - The Western Wall was going to build their own palace for administrative reasons, but it was planned for a pretty out of the way spot as far a step our core territories are concerned. We need to build one somewhere it allows them to use but is close enough to avoid them gaining any more independence or drifting away politically and culturally.
  • Highlanders - I don't actually agree with this. There is some movement towards trying to vassalize the Highlanders and a lot of people do want this. Using our genius general while she's alive is likely a good idea.
  • Any others? I'll keep adding to this list.
 
Last edited:
maximillian said:
But I have a slightly different definition of what our interests are I suspect.

And actually yes I do favour realist view of international relations.

The modern one anyways, the old one became outdated as soon as it was written.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
your initial response as given did not match citino's definition as given, for all that your clarified response did

@Citino imo the distinction between "diplomacy other than vassalization should not be pursued" and "you can only trust other countries to act in their own self-interest" is extremely clear

not that this matters
 
pbluekan said:
So, what are our priorities for the upcoming turns?
  • Centralization - This dropped pretty low in the last midturn and we could definitely spring for some road expansions to get our cent tolerance increase up.
  • Stallion Tribe integration - This is still an ongoing necessity in order to avoid firer separation and drift.
  • Txolla Influence/Integration - They are pretty loyal at the moment, but they aren't much like us philosophically and culturally. I'm sure, though, that turning the TH/TS into paste really helped. We do, however, need to start eating them.
  • Tech Increase - We learned two things about tech recently. It affects our innovation rolls, so negative values are rather bad and can cause tech loss. It is used quite widely in wildcat innovation rolls actions. This makes it immensely valuable.
  • Metal Innovation - Errbody has iron. We need steel. We're close with case hardening, but not quite there.
  • Defensive Infrastructure - We have expanded a lot recently, and we had some large incursions into one of our peripheral states. We can't do. I have about that, but having strong defenses behind them will allow us to avoid worrying about our core and leave us better able to focus on the outside. War is something we are going to have to really keep an eye on in the near future. Iron has spread widely among our neighboring rivals and they will all be gunning for us now that they can meet us on more equal terms.
  • Northern Trade Post - This is still a major consideration culturally (because big trees) and politically. There are two very valuable trade goods there and an otherwise untapped market. Wealth is more valuable than ever given how we burned through ours in a single turn, and any possibility for innovation that will further our other advantages should be grabbed.
  • Any others? I'll keep adding to this list.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I would put eating the Highlanders on that list, as they have tried to sneak up and kill us the past two wars we have fought, and we should put our genius general to good use turning them into paste.
 
pbluekan said:
So, what are our priorities for the upcoming turns?
  • Centralization - This dropped pretty low in the last midturn and we could definitely spring for some road expansions to get our cent tolerance increase up.
  • Stallion Tribe integration - This is still an ongoing necessity in order to avoid firer separation and drift.
  • Txolla Influence/Integration - They are pretty loyal at the moment, but they aren't much like us philosophically and culturally. I'm sure, though, that turning the TH/TS into paste really helped. We do, however, need to start eating them.
  • Tech Increase - We learned two things about tech recently. It affects our innovation rolls, so negative values are rather bad and can cause tech loss. It is used quite widely in wildcat innovation rolls actions. This makes it immensely valuable.
  • Metal Innovation - Errbody has iron. We need steel. We're close with case hardening, but not quite there.
  • Defensive Infrastructure - We have expanded a lot recently, and we had some large incursions into one of our peripheral states. We can't do. I have about that, but having strong defenses behind them will allow us to avoid worrying about our core and leave us better able to focus on the outside. War is something we are going to have to really keep an eye on in the near future. Iron has spread widely among our neighboring rivals and they will all be gunning for us now that they can meet us on more equal terms.
  • Northern Trade Post - This is still a major consideration culturally (because big trees) and politically. There are two very valuable trade goods there and an otherwise untapped market. Wealth is more valuable than ever given how we burned through ours in a single turn, and any possibility for innovation that will further our other advantages should be grabbed.
  • Any others? I'll keep adding to this list.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The Governor's Palace needed in Western Wall that was mentioned before the Khemetri War. They want to build it in isolated mountains, while we had said that we needed to build it somewhere more accessible to prevent too much independence and autonomy within them.
 
bluefur87 said:
Still on the rapid update pace, I see.

I really am curious as to how the pharaoh will view our religion if he learns about it, our Yenyna if he learns about who she is and how she directed the fights.

That would do things to their religion and views on us, and I kinda want to see it happen @Academia Nut .

Pwease?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I personally want to see his reaction when he realizes that the pale lady at the meeting was the Demon!

Just how utterly rocked his world would be to realize that he was fought to a stand still by such a strange looking lady

@Academia Nut please do not have it as Reshemhetari already been married please? ;_;
 
Umi-san said:
@Citino imo the distinction between "diplomacy other than vassalization should not be pursued" and "you can only trust other countries to act in their own self-interest" is extremely clear
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
A country that is a vassal is one that is bound to your own. Thus, their interest can be easily gauged, as well as made to fall in line with your own.

Thus, seeking to make all countries your vassal is a legit foreign policy based in realism, as it presumes that all attempts at diplomacy will inevitably end in war. As such, defeating and vassalizing all others before they can initiate a war themselves is a possible foreign policy.

A silly one, but a legitimate one nonetheless.
 
Last edited:
Umi-san said:
the map of irl egypt -> anatolia or whatever is smaller than the map of all the land around the black sea

they were 23 behind us and didn't defeat 2 other polities. They're not gaining prestige from this tribute, or else they wouldn't need the wealth. Or at least that's how I read AN's comment.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
But we don't even know if those relative sizes are close to the sizes in not!earth, or how extensively they've conquered or settled other areas farther from us. Add in that to my knowledge the nile makes their homeland one of hte best breadbaskets in the world, if the Not!Nile is anything like the real one... I dont think its at all safe to assume they're smaller than us. As for prestige...we got 4 prestige for barely losing that giant battle. They almost certainly got at least 6. They probably still have less prestige, yes, especially if the acknowledge superiority option was the same as teh back down one (would have then at 25 less than us), but a couple subordinates isn't that big a deal, especially since its almost certain they have the colonies legacy, and quite probably have a political system with good subordinate limits. More importantly, even if they didn't capture any of oru blacksmiths, they almost certainly captured a hell of a lot of iron tools, and now know that its possible to smelt it in large numbers...they almost certainly have the manpower and skilled smiths needed to work that out by the next time we fight. That's why i really want us to study metal this midturn if we can, before our mystic hero goes away...and its why i'm sad we didn't get the Genius Alchemist, even though we'd have lost without Yenyna, because that would have been a much longer term benefit, where Yenyna is likely to die before we can fight the HK again, and will be at best almost useless during peace and at worst might lead our troops off on her own adventures like having too much martial does :/
 
My thoughts are this.

All internal relationships are based purely on self interest. However duo to the fact that the world economy is utterly Interconnected, and public perception and standing are a calculable currency, that means that the self interest of states became Interconnected as well.

What this means is all acts that are seen and talked about as charity, good well, relief, building bridges... Etc. Are nothing more than calculated self interest. For example, You give aid to a country experiencing natural disaster to have them in your debt, to make yourself look good, to sell them stuff.

What that means is that everything states do is self interest, and so one must make plans based on that, on only that, to succeed diplomatically. For self interest can be calculated, ideals cannot, and they are meaningless when uncoupled from self-interest.
 
Last edited:
Abby Normal said:
But we don't even know if those relative sizes are close to the sizes in not!earth, or how extensively they've conquered or settled other areas farther from us. Add in that to my knowledge the nile makes their homeland one of hte best breadbaskets in the world, if the Not!Nile is anything like the real one... I dont think its at all safe to assume they're smaller than us. As for prestige...we got 4 prestige for barely losing that giant battle. They almost certainly got at least 6. They probably still have less prestige, yes, especially if the acknowledge superiority option was the same as teh back down one (would have then at 25 less than us), but a couple subordinates isn't that big a deal, especially since its almost certain they have the colonies legacy, and quite probably have a political system with good subordinate limits. More importantly, even if they didn't capture any of oru blacksmiths, they almost certainly captured a hell of a lot of iron tools, and now know that its possible to smelt it in large numbers...they almost certainly have the manpower and skilled smiths needed to work that out by the next time we fight. That's why i really want us to study metal this midturn if we can, before our mystic hero goes away...and its why i'm sad we didn't get the Genius Alchemist, even though we'd have lost without Yenyna, because that would have been a much longer term benefit, where Yenyna is likely to die before we can fight the HK again, and will be at best almost useless during peace and at worst might lead our troops off on her own adventures like having too much martial does :/
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

My hope is that founding a mercenary company while Yenyna is still alive will work to preserve some of the insights and skill she's brought us.
 
pbluekan said:
So, what are our priorities for the upcoming turns?
  • Centralization - This dropped pretty low in the last midturn and we could definitely spring for some road expansions to get our cent tolerance increase up.
  • Stallion Tribe integration - This is still an ongoing necessity in order to avoid firer separation and drift.
  • Txolla Influence/Integration - They are pretty loyal at the moment, but they aren't much like us philosophically and culturally. I'm sure, though, that turning the TH/TS into paste really helped. We do, however, need to start eating them.
  • Tech Increase - We learned two things about tech recently. It affects our innovation rolls, so negative values are rather bad and can cause tech loss. It is used quite widely in wildcat innovation rolls actions. This makes it immensely valuable.
  • Metal Innovation - Errbody has iron. We need steel. We're close with case hardening, but not quite there.
  • Defensive Infrastructure - We have expanded a lot recently, and we had some large incursions into one of our peripheral states. We can't do. I have about that, but having strong defenses behind them will allow us to avoid worrying about our core and leave us better able to focus on the outside. War is something we are going to have to really keep an eye on in the near future. Iron has spread widely among our neighboring rivals and they will all be gunning for us now that they can meet us on more equal terms.
  • Northern Trade Post - This is still a major consideration culturally (because big trees) and politically. There are two very valuable trade goods there and an otherwise untapped market. Wealth is more valuable than ever given how we burned through ours in a single turn, and any possibility for innovation that will further our other advantages should be grabbed.
  • Any others? I'll keep adding to this list.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Priorities for Next Turn
Set up Passive Policies
-Defense
-Infrastructure or Forest
Build New Trails
Found Mercenary Company
Regen Wealth via Poppies which will kind of hurt the Khem
Establish a Khem TP if available

Priorities for the Turn After
Vassalize the HK
Influence the Txolla

ST Integration is a low priority until the heroic nomad son is dead.
Tech regain is kind of important, but ~ making the HK not hurt us is more so
NTP would be nice but must wait until we are no longer at risk of war

I'd suggest a Study Health just because having more recovery would be nice.
I'd suggest integrating the WW because it's easy and we want to prevent them from founding a governor's palace and declaring their independence. And because it would be cool to eventually establish a new March further along the steppes.
 
No more expansion. War, maybe, but no conquest, no subjugation, no expansion. Our civilisation is geared towards building tall and every time we expand we become more vulnerable, more brittle.
 
Academia Nut said:
Temporary Econ, the war actually exceeded your new tolerance for that.

Expect to see more of it!

Also, since it is now obvious

[X] Offer tribute (-5 Prestige, -10 Wealth, keeps King of the Hill, chance of +1 Stability)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Wait...so this means that there's a completely different value for actual econ damage from climate issues? Also it makes other civ's survival make more sense...if most of the damage they've taken was temporary, its enough to cause starvation, but then it comes back...next turn? and so they didn't permanently lose it...
 
Blargh! I'm pretty wiped at this point, but given the rapid fire updates today if I go to sleep now I'll likely miss another update entirely! What do?!
 
maximillian said:
My thoughts are this.

All internal relationships are based purely on self interest. However duo to the fact that the world economy is utterly Interconnected, and public perception and standing are a calculable currency, that means that the self interest of states became Interconnected as well.

What this means is all acts that are seen and talked about as charity, good well, relief, building bridges... Etc. Are nothing more than calculated self interest. For example, You give aid to a country experiencing natural disaster to have them in your debt, to make yourself look good, to sell them stuff.

What that means is that everything states do is self interest, and so one must make plans based on that on only that to succeed diplomatically. For self interest can be calculated, ideal cannot, and they are meaningless in when uncoupled from self-interest.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...


Of course we are in the bronze age, so this is meaningless.

In pre industrial eras. A states interest is ruling the world. Everything else should be adjusted accordingly.
 
Last edited:
pbluekan said:
So, what are our priorities for the upcoming turns?
  • Centralization - This dropped pretty low in the last midturn and we could definitely spring for some road expansions to get our cent tolerance increase up.
  • Stallion Tribe integration - This is still an ongoing necessity in order to avoid firer separation and drift.
  • Txolla Influence/Integration - They are pretty loyal at the moment, but they aren't much like us philosophically and culturally. I'm sure, though, that turning the TH/TS into paste really helped. We do, however, need to start eating them.
  • Tech Increase - We learned two things about tech recently. It affects our innovation rolls, so negative values are rather bad and can cause tech loss. It is used quite widely in wildcat innovation rolls actions. This makes it immensely valuable.
  • Metal Innovation - Errbody has iron. We need steel. We're close with case hardening, but not quite there.
  • Defensive Infrastructure - We have expanded a lot recently, and we had some large incursions into one of our peripheral states. We can't do. I have about that, but having strong defenses behind them will allow us to avoid worrying about our core and leave us better able to focus on the outside. War is something we are going to have to really keep an eye on in the near future. Iron has spread widely among our neighboring rivals and they will all be gunning for us now that they can meet us on more equal terms.
  • Northern Trade Post - This is still a major consideration culturally (because big trees) and politically. There are two very valuable trade goods there and an otherwise untapped market. Wealth is more valuable than ever given how we burned through ours in a single turn, and any possibility for innovation that will further our other advantages should be grabbed.
  • Governors Palace - The Western Wall was going to build their own palace for administrative reasons, but it was planned for a pretty out of the way spot as far a step our core territories are concerned. We need to build one somewhere it allows them to use but is close enough to avoid them gaining any more independence or drifting away politically and culturally.
  • Highlanders - I don't actually agree with this. There is some movement towards trying to vassalize the Highlanders, but we have never explicitly gone on an offensive war for no other reason than conquest. I don't like the precedent, and I think we have other priorities.
  • Any others? I'll keep adding to this list.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...


Distribute lands
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top