The issue is that our Study actions are also massively boosted by Love of Wisdom.
I get that it's boosted, but that's a lot like a sports car being on sale. If you don't need it, it doesn't make buying it a good idea.

We don't really NEED tech advances right now. Admin advances would be more useful frankly. And when we simply don't have enough actions to go around, the right road is to just go for a golden age asap for free innovation rolls.
 
[x] [Main] Great Temple
[x] [Secondary] Improve Annual Festival
[x] [Secondary] Change Policy-Mega Project Support

We can now do the Temple at full effort without anymore religious debates and I want more stab since 1 secondary is 1 main this turn
Fewer religious debates, but more intense ones since they're all crammed into fewer updates. Word of god.
 
[X] [Crow] Spider-Eyed
[X] [Fyth] Fertility

Fertility covers a very broad spread as opposed to the harvest. It covers the fertility of land and people both. This promotes welfare of not just the harvest itself but the forests and land as well as the people that live on it. It is a suitably broad ranging aspect, rather than simply venerating the harvest. We are the Divine Stewards of the land, not just farmers.

[X][Main] Improve Festival
[X][Secondary] Change Policy - Megaproject Support
[X][Secondary] Enforce Justice

Why this: This will firmly put us into a golden age. The enforce justice will take care of the last stability point and will be unlikely to raise our centralization much as we have most of our settlements walled. The golden age will boost our megaproject building and trade good setup. Vineyards are there to simply boost our production there and hopefully get to dominant.
 
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[X] [Crow] Spider-Eyed
[X] [Fyth] Fertility
[X] [Main] Great Temple
[X] [Secondary] Improve Annual Festival
[X] [Secondary] Study Forests
 
If any women get to stay at home and not work, they're incredibly wealthy. That's not a luxury even the Ymaryn can afford on a broad scale, so no reason to fight it.

And 'baby maker'? That's an inevitably important role with high mortality rates and low lifespans. We may be better than average for our time period, but the average woman probably has 8-12 pregnancies. So you CAN'T reasonably fight baby-maker as a primary female role.
Of course baby-maker is going to be incredibly important for women in this time period, but we don't have to emphasize it.

Okay, in time to do a partial analysis, which is nice. Going to do the options first to get a word in sidewise.

First, Shaman riots:
Which aspect of Crow?
[] [Crow] Teacher

Emphasis on passing down wisdom and traditions.
Risks of weakening the discovery element.

[] [Crow] Trickster

Challenging assumptions and preconceptions.
Emphasis on the discovery elements, but also inherently makes challenging social norms acceptable.

[] [Crow] Devourer

Destroyer and devourer. The one who deals with the unclean things. This is the aspect most likely to be demonized over time.

[] [Crow] Spider-Eyed

All of the Above. Focus on Crow as a mystery.

Which aspect of Fythhagyna?
[] [Fyth] Mother

Focus on the role of the mother and childbirth.
The "Be fruitful and multiply" option, which simultaneously enshrines a holy role for women...and also blocks them most heavily from social advancement by focusing on giving birth as the most important thing.

Personally dislike this.

[] [Fyth] Matron

Focus on the role of the Elder, the family head and source of wisdom. Promotes womens' role as Clan leaders, which, if you may recall, we got by matronymics.
Also has some conservativism baked in. Matrons are not known for being openminded and flexible.

[] [Fyth] Harvest

Focus on her role as the Farmer's god and enshrines their cultural importance. This will have some conflicts with cities and their growing non-agricultural importance, while in the iron age, most of the power still stems from the land's productivity.

I personally dislike this as it focuses on "what does nature give you" rather than "what can you do for nature"

[] [Fyth] Fertility

Focus on her role as nature goddess, which has some strong affinity with being in Sacred Forest, where the vitality of nature is strongly evident. This reinforces the Environmentalism aspect of Divine Stewards.

Oh and she's very often naked here, so if that's what you want...

Notable options:

Main Docks increases our trade power, as we can get goods to the trade partners in greater bulk.

It's a VERY efficient way to generate Diplomacy.

We can build even more vineyards, so it might be desirable to max this out before we plant over the rest of the location.

Festival is twice as efficient. This might be a VERY good time to Main Festival while we have the multiplier. We have the Econ for it.

Still marginal, which is needed for connectivity.

SO my vote for now:
[X] [Crow] Spider-Eyed
[X] [Fyth] Fertility
[X] [Main] Great Temple
[X] [Secondary] Improve Annual Festival
[X] [Secondary] Improve Annual Festival x2

We should take advantage of the wine bonus while it's a novel idea, and get double benefit from Festivals. Once people get used to it, it'd decline in power no doubt.
This leaves us 1 Proclaim Glory away from Golden Age trigger.
Double Main Improve Annual Festival doesn't do a ton more for us than a Main Improve Annual Festival; and AN has confirmed that we can do just a Secondary Improve Annual Festival this turn to get the benefits of a Main. So why not go to Megaproject Support and get the Temple finished this turn? We seem to have done all the religious debates by this point.
 
[X] [Crow] Spider-Eyed
[X] [Fyth] Fertility
[X] [Main] Great Temple
[X] [Secondary] Improve Annual Festival
[X] [Secondary] Study Forests
 
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Okay, in time to do a partial analysis, which is nice. Going to do the options first to get a word in sidewise.

First, Shaman riots:
Which aspect of Crow?
[] [Crow] Teacher

Emphasis on passing down wisdom and traditions.
Risks of weakening the discovery element.

[] [Crow] Trickster

Challenging assumptions and preconceptions.
Emphasis on the discovery elements, but also inherently makes challenging social norms acceptable.

[] [Crow] Devourer

Destroyer and devourer. The one who deals with the unclean things. This is the aspect most likely to be demonized over time.

[] [Crow] Spider-Eyed

All of the Above. Focus on Crow as a mystery.

Which aspect of Fythhagyna?
[] [Fyth] Mother

Focus on the role of the mother and childbirth.
The "Be fruitful and multiply" option, which simultaneously enshrines a holy role for women...and also blocks them most heavily from social advancement by focusing on giving birth as the most important thing.

Personally dislike this.

[] [Fyth] Matron

Focus on the role of the Elder, the family head and source of wisdom. Promotes womens' role as Clan leaders, which, if you may recall, we got by matronymics.
Also has some conservativism baked in. Matrons are not known for being openminded and flexible.

[] [Fyth] Harvest

Focus on her role as the Farmer's god and enshrines their cultural importance. This will have some conflicts with cities and their growing non-agricultural importance, while in the iron age, most of the power still stems from the land's productivity.

I personally dislike this as it focuses on "what does nature give you" rather than "what can you do for nature"

[] [Fyth] Fertility

Focus on her role as nature goddess, which has some strong affinity with being in Sacred Forest, where the vitality of nature is strongly evident. This reinforces the Environmentalism aspect of Divine Stewards.

Oh and she's very often naked here, so if that's what you want...

Notable options:

Main Docks increases our trade power, as we can get goods to the trade partners in greater bulk.

It's a VERY efficient way to generate Diplomacy.

We can build even more vineyards, so it might be desirable to max this out before we plant over the rest of the location.

Festival is twice as efficient. This might be a VERY good time to Main Festival while we have the multiplier. We have the Econ for it.

Still marginal, which is needed for connectivity.

SO my vote for now:
[X] [Crow] Spider-Eyed
[X] [Fyth] Fertility
[X] [Main] Great Temple
[X] [Secondary] Improve Annual Festival
[X] [Secondary] Improve Annual Festival x2

We should take advantage of the wine bonus while it's a novel idea, and get double benefit from Festivals. Once people get used to it, it'd decline in power no doubt.
This leaves us 1 Proclaim Glory away from Golden Age trigger.
A festival gives a cap of 2 we're alrdy at 1.
 
[X] [Crow] Spider-Eyed
[X] [Fyth] Fertility

Fertility covers a very broad spread as opposed to the harvest. It covers the fertility of land and people both. This promotes welfare of not just the harvest itself but the forests and land as well as the people that live on it. It is a suitably broad ranging aspect, rather than simply venerating the harvest. We are the Divine Stewards of the land, not just farmers.

[X][Main] Improve Festival
[X][Secondary] Change Policy - Megaproject Support
[X][Secondary] Expand Vineyard

Why this: This will firmly put us into a golden age. The golden age will boost our megaproject building and trade good setup. Vineyards are there to simply boost our production there and hopefully get to dominant.
Burns stats needed to hit golden age. Waiting a turn is better.
 
Fewer religious debates, but more intense ones since they're all crammed into fewer updates. Word of god.
But the main religious debate is already finished the update said so in this
"Good. The design of the central statue can be finalized later, but with everything else ready we can begin construction in earnest while you guys figure out what designs you want for Crow and Fythhagyna," the king said, slowly cooling himself off as he walked.
We can now begin the building of the temple in earnest so I think it now safe to rush the building now that all but the most minor details has already been decided
 
[X] [Crow] Spider-Eyed
[X] [Fyth] Fertility
[X] [Main] Great Temple
[X] [Secondary] Improve Annual Festival
[X] [Secondary] Study Forests
 
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[X] [Crow] Spider-Eyed
[X] [Fyth] Harvest
[X] [Main] Great Temple
[X] [Secondary] Improve Annual Festival
[X] [Secondary] Study Forests
 
What does "(in)" mean on the tin trade good listing?

It means that they are trading for it, but they don't pass it on but instead consume it locally.

Which variation is most popular among the female shamans and why?

It's distributed geographically about the same as the male shamans.

I don't know if it's been confirmed before, but what exactly does Spider-Eyed mean? Is it all seeing/all knowing?

Spider-Eyed is the most alien and primordial version.
 
[X] [Crow] Teacher
[X] [Fyth] Fertility

IDOL WHEN?

[X] [Main] Great Temple
[X] [Secondary] Expand Forests
[X] [Secondary] Study Metal

Dat forrestry tho.
 
Also, my snail-folk, doesn't it make more sense to aim for Salt now, then do a Main on Snails later?
That way we have a solution if we accidentally breed NON-immortal hyper intelligent poison snails. :D

Also, don't really care. Salt is slightly better I think?

Okay, in time to do a partial analysis, which is nice. Going to do the options first to get a word in sidewise.

First, Shaman riots:
Which aspect of Crow?
[] [Crow] Teacher

Emphasis on passing down wisdom and traditions.
Risks of weakening the discovery element.

[] [Crow] Trickster

Challenging assumptions and preconceptions.
Emphasis on the discovery elements, but also inherently makes challenging social norms acceptable.

[] [Crow] Devourer

Destroyer and devourer. The one who deals with the unclean things. This is the aspect most likely to be demonized over time.

[] [Crow] Spider-Eyed

All of the Above. Focus on Crow as a mystery.

Which aspect of Fythhagyna?
[] [Fyth] Mother

Focus on the role of the mother and childbirth.
The "Be fruitful and multiply" option, which simultaneously enshrines a holy role for women...and also blocks them most heavily from social advancement by focusing on giving birth as the most important thing.

Personally dislike this.

[] [Fyth] Matron

Focus on the role of the Elder, the family head and source of wisdom. Promotes womens' role as Clan leaders, which, if you may recall, we got by matronymics.
Also has some conservativism baked in. Matrons are not known for being openminded and flexible.

[] [Fyth] Harvest

Focus on her role as the Farmer's god and enshrines their cultural importance. This will have some conflicts with cities and their growing non-agricultural importance, while in the iron age, most of the power still stems from the land's productivity.

I personally dislike this as it focuses on "what does nature give you" rather than "what can you do for nature"

[] [Fyth] Fertility

Focus on her role as nature goddess, which has some strong affinity with being in Sacred Forest, where the vitality of nature is strongly evident. This reinforces the Environmentalism aspect of Divine Stewards.

Oh and she's very often naked here, so if that's what you want...

Notable options:

Main Docks increases our trade power, as we can get goods to the trade partners in greater bulk.

It's a VERY efficient way to generate Diplomacy.

We can build even more vineyards, so it might be desirable to max this out before we plant over the rest of the location.

Festival is twice as efficient. This might be a VERY good time to Main Festival while we have the multiplier. We have the Econ for it.

Still marginal, which is needed for connectivity.

SO my vote for now:
[X] [Crow] Spider-Eyed
[X] [Fyth] Fertility
[X] [Main] Great Temple
[X] [Secondary] Improve Annual Festival
[X] [Secondary] Improve Annual Festival x2

We should take advantage of the wine bonus while it's a novel idea, and get double benefit from Festivals. Once people get used to it, it'd decline in power no doubt.
This leaves us 1 Proclaim Glory away from Golden Age trigger.

Yay, we're off admin issues and I can loosely support the veekie train! :p

Seriously, this is something I would be fine with winning, though I would prefer a secondary +Trade option instead of main festival.
[X] [Crow] Spider-Eyed
[X] [Fyth] Fertility
[X] [Main] Great Temple
[X] [Secondary] Improve Annual Festival
[X] [Secondary] Saltern - Southshore Saltern
 
Alright boys and girls, here's an argument for the Fertility aspect of Fythhagyna.

Fertility is the aspect of Fythhagyna that is the overarching aspect that governs all things:
  • Health
  • Harvest
  • Mothers/Children
What is the harvest? Primarily it is the bounty of the land, what the land provides, and what The People can pull from the land to ensure the growth of the people.

What is fertility? Primarily it is the capacity of both the world and The People for growth and good health. This is similar to the spider-eyed aspect of Crow. It covers all bases. Fertility covers the fertility of the soil and the forests, prayers there will be directed to both the farmland and the forests. Fertility covers The People themselves, ensuring that their children are plentiful, born healthy and survive. Furthermore, as @veekie said, it merges well with the environmentalism present in our civ and with the temple's place in the sacred forest.
 
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[X] [Crow] Spider-Eyed
[X] [Fyth] Harvest

[X] [Main] Great Temple
[X] [Secondary] Expand Vineyard
[X] [Secondary] Expand Vineyard x2

We need proper vines, not the American quality crap we're likely producing atm.


Edit :tactical voting
 
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... We'd spend an action and an econ for two art.

We're not short on art.
In defense of the vote, it also would presumably have much stronger narrative effects. I still prefer my vote (obviously), but its got merit.
It means that they are trading for it, but they don't pass it on but instead consume it locally.



It's distributed geographically about the same as the male shamans.



Spider-Eyed is the most alien and primordial version.

Ooh, cool, that makes sense; we do not yet know where our dealer gets tin :p
 
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