Hey, curious.

What's your off the cuff estimate on when we can exploit the Bleeding Cliffs and get at least some iron?
Greater Metalworking first. Like maybe a couple centuries of metalworking.
Plz stop judging my home. We're better than everywhere else.
I judge you severely because you orange buckets of sand decided to build in a desert and had to pipeline water from hundreds of miles north, worsening the drought that is hitting California >.>
 
Greater Metalworking first. Like maybe a couple centuries of metalworking.

I judge you severely because you orange buckets of sand decided to build in a desert and had to pipeline water from hundreds of miles north, worsening the drought that is hitting California >.>
That's my estimate to. *wistful sigh* It's gonna be something like 20 turns(~400 years in game time). But hey! That is waaaaaaay ahead of the RL timeline and ahead of our neighbors, more importantly.
 
Plus a Marital most likely, and a Diplo Hero to. How else does he charm the ladies? And going by Hangwind's omake we have some very enthusiastic ladies. :ogles:
He'd love it with us with our predilection for population booms.
Actually not so much diplomancy hero as nations would hate him(their people of the feminine side not so much). Personally I see him giving a lot of vanity/hedonism megaprojects such as giant bathhouses, giant statues, mega festival(fair grounds, forming national holidays). Another thing I can see him doing is boosting birth rate and either lead to more gender inequality or more equality(as he places more of his lovers into power). Or even causing health study into sexual acts and discovering something like birth contol.
 
Actually not so much diplomancy hero as nations would hate him(their people of the feminine side not so much). Personally I see him giving a lot of vanity/hedonism megaprojects such as giant bathhouses, giant statues, mega festival(fair grounds, forming national holidays). Another thing I can see him doing is boosting birth rate and either lead to more gender inequality or more equality(as he places more of his lovers into power). Or even causing health study into sexual acts and discovering something like birth contol.
Sheep intestine condoms.

Among many other things that let humans fuck for giggles.
 
Bathhouses are useful in low-water cultures for continuing hygiene practices.

Greater Metalworking first. Like maybe a couple centuries of metalworking.

I judge you severely because you orange buckets of sand decided to build in a desert and had to pipeline water from hundreds of miles north, worsening the drought that is hitting California >.>
The problem isn't that we decided to build here it's that people kept coming. It's perfectly watery enough to suffice for a scattering of small cities, it's just the boom into a giant sprawling stretch of suburbs w/ all their various European plants and non-desert grass lawns that make us use too much water. Arizona is far more criminal.

Also, most of the water consumption is for industrial and agricultural purposes; the city takes up max 10% or so.


Def need better metal. Prolly need better opium, too.

I'm guessing the lowlands explode again.

I mean, it's a safe bet...
that and/or SHP and/or the March and/or we were weirdly successful w/ the Garden.
 
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As the tides
[X] [Main] New Settlement - Southern Shores
[X] [Secondary] Copper Mine
[X] [Secondary] Copper Mine X2
[X] [Kick] The Garden

Provinces - Megaproject x2

Stallion Tribes - [Main] New Settlement, [Sec] Build Walls, [Sec] New Trails

The People had kicked disease in the head before, had pushed back against the demons of the underworld and the lowlands, and had struck major blows against two of their ways of plaguing humanity. As such, was it any surprise that the demons would concoct something new? Something terrible and insidious in its method of killing?

So the demons sent a cough. A painful cough that lingered and lingered, such that it could not be adequately contained by quarantine, not without crashing the economy as everyone stayed isolated from everyone else. It killed adults to be sure, their bodies sometimes wracked with coughs so potent as to break ribs, but as the disease spread through the population, the brunt of the reaping fell upon the most vulnerable, and there seemed to be no way to stop this latest iteration of a killer. Where for generations the shamans had fought to keep three out of six children alive, it was now more like two out of seven or even eight that made it to adulthood. It wasn't always the new cough, just as often it was the old familiar killers, but now there was something new that the People couldn't fight to weaken tiny bodies and leave them susceptible to something else.

As such, while the completion of the new changes to Upper Valleyhome was met with much praise over how it definitely improved things, it was ultimately still a bittersweet moment as many were left to weep at tiny graves. For Magwyna, the newest and most vigorous Artisan Chief, the opening of the gates and the flowing of water was marred by the taste of ash in her mouth from the loss of her two youngest, a rambunctious girl of seven and a bright boy of four. Her face was stone for she had already cried out her tears and needed to focus on the project that had first brought her to prominence in the first place. Work had begun when she was a child and her father a stonemason - now an elder enjoying his retirement whittling and telling new stonemasons what to do - and she had discovered a talent for organizing and directing the work. She had simply been able to see the patterns of movement among the workers, the rhythm to it all and where things got snarled and how they could be smoothed. Then she had precociously charmed her father and the other workers into following her advice, and after they started to recognize that she had good advice they had realized that they had a born administrator on their hands.

By the time of her being declared a woman she had an assignment from the Artisan Chief with royal backing to travel to the Green Hill and apprentice under the clerks and chiefs doing the process of expanding the quarry into a mine and smelting site, transforming the coloured stones into shining copper and poisonous wastes. She had thrived there and got the mine up and running early, and had also met her husband Yldod, a potter, there, and had soon found herself sent on to the new Southshore settlement, where they not only needed a skilled admin but someone who could handle the fact that there were people from the Southern Hill Tribes - now being called the Hathatyn after the city that seemed dominant in the overall region, Hathaya - who were also starting to settle the region. Through adroit diplomacy she had managed to keep the fighting to a minimum; mostly just interpersonal things that would have happened regardless of language or beliefs, but she kept it from spiraling out of control into anything larger conflicts, for the time being.

And then she had returned to the place of her birth to see the project coming to fruition, and for the new disease to begin its outbreak. If only the gardens could help with the coughing plague, but as it was they "merely" helped prevent other infections and gave people a greater chance of fighting it off without picking up something else along the way. It was a remarkable piece of work too, consisting of both an elevated ramp and watertight sections of brickwork that allowed the water to move uphill. The outflow was at the top of the hill, and then it cascaded down through more canals to water the whole city, including large areas with trees and bushes to provide shade and bring healthy spirits of nature into the city. Waste water was also carried away with a section of the outflow, taking it to fields where lined pits and specially selected plants slowed down, collected, and filtered the waste. Upper Valleyhome would create less black soil the traditional way, but the farms and forests throughout the province rarely needed a fresh infusion, and burning off winter top cover before planting seemed to adequately renew it anyway.

Megaproject Completed!
The Garden
Through the careful channeling of water, the People have created a garden within a city, a well watered domain of pleasant shade and efficient sewage disposal. Unlocks the aqueduct extended project, provides an aqueduct for the city (increasing available living space). Opens up the True City status

Local Copper Supply Acquired!
Econ cost of all megaprojects and extended projects reduced. Opens up new innovation possibilities.

Select a bonus
[] Random Admin tech upgrade
[] Random Construction tech upgrade
[] Free holy site expansion (+2 Mysticism)
[] Reassure the People of their safety and prosperity (+1 Stability)

Unfortunately, while no one quite knew what had caused the coughing plague - most of their sedentary neighbours were also suffering from it, although no one could be sure who had it first - many people were quite convinced that they knew what it was: the mine. Many were now convinced that the superior qualities of metal was because it was the remains of the weapons of the gods, slung across the sky and buried in the ground ages ago. Since gods fought with the primal forces of the world like thunder, storms, the unsteadiness of the earth, and of course the unleashing of demons of plague. The People knew that metals and their wastes could make people sick, but many were now convinced that playing with the weapons of spirits and gods was fundamentally unsound, and while none could deny the utility of having metal tools, many were now against anything to do with the production of those tools.

Baby Boom Ended!
Due to an increase in infant mortality from new diseases, growth rates have stabilized back to near equilibrium levels. -1 Stability due to these new mortality rates not being considered normal

Debilitating Belief Gained!
Weapons of the Gods
Metal and things that come from the heavens are cursed! While the People will use that which is already present or trade, metal mining and open study now costs Stability.

Magwyna was obviously opposed to this belief, but she felt that was because it didn't make sense to her given that the metal barren Xohyssiri seemed to suffer from more plagues than the metal rich people to the far west. Unfortunately, given that she very much had an involvement in setting up the mine, pretty much everyone assumed that she wanted to downplay things for political reasons, which was frustrating given that she was already having problems on the council relating to her relative youth and gender. While the chiefs of Valleyhome and Southshore personally knew and liked her from before her appointment as Artisan Chief, the chiefs of Northshore, Stonepen, and the Stallion Tribes seemed to have a grudge out for her, probably because Attrikwyn, the chief of the Stallion Tribes seemed to have a bug up his ass about her. He liked to cast her ways of being charming, personable, and persuasive as being 'seductive' and challenged the legitimacy of her advice and achievements. Everyone else on the council seemed to have more complex and mixed feelings, but it made getting her points across harder. Some accused her of going after the kingship, and while originally she hadn't, she was now tempted to do so just to clean the situation up. It would be a hard struggle though, especially since Attrikwyn seemed set on the kingship himself and was frankly also a good candidate.

Choose the next heir
[] Magwyna (-1 Stability, other effects, [Poor Martial, Heroic Admin and Diplo])
[] Attrikwyn ([Good Admin, Diplo, and Martial])
[] Someone else (Standard)

Choose a midturn project
[] Grand Sacrifice (-3 Econ, +2 Stability)
[] Study Metal (-2 Mysticism, -1 Econ, -1 Stability, chance of new discoveries)
[] Study Health (-1 Econ, greater chance of new discoveries)
[] New Trails (-1 Econ, +1 Diplo, +1 Centralization, other effects)
[] Focus on Growth (+2 Econ)

And, of course, with a new disease on the scene - and the Thunder Speakers and Xohyssiri getting their faces kicked in by the Eastern Thunder Horse - the lowlands were in chaos. The Highlander king's attempt to unify their laws and bring about changes had also annoyed some of his chiefs, who had taken the coughing plague as a sign of displeasure by the spirits. While it wasn't a complete rupture of order, an group roughly equivalent to a province was trying to break off, resulting in just one more bit of chaos in their southern neighbours.

Refugee policy
[] Take in some (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[] Let it be known that you have room (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, +4-5 Econ)
[] You have lots of room (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, +6-8 Econ, chance of further effects)
[] Encourage people to come to a safe place (-3 Stability, chance of further loss, +8-11 Econ, further effects)
[] Everyone can come on in! (-4 Stability, chance of further loss, +11-15 Econ, further effects, chance of over crowding, Upper Valleyhome attains True City status)
 
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Weapons of the Gods
Metal and things that come from the heavens are cursed! While the People will use that which is already present or trade, metal mining and open study now costs Stability
Damn. So we're at 2 Stab right now, and it's time for who wants to destabilize a country? (grand saccing is probably a really good idea)
 
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
 
For Magwyna, the newest and most vigorous Artisan Chief, the opening of the gates and the flowing of water was marred by the taste of ash in her mouth from the loss of her two youngest, a rambunctious girl of seven and a bright boy of four. Her face was stone for she had already cried out her tears and needed to focus on the project that had first brought her to prominence in the first place. Work had begun when she was a child and her father a stonemason - now an elder enjoying his retirement whittling and telling new stonemasons what to do - and she had discovered a talent for organizing and directing the work. She had simply been able to see the patterns of movement among the workers, the rhythm to it all and where things got snarled and how they could be smoothed. Then she had precociously charmed her father and the other workers into following her advice, and after they started to recognize that she had good advice they had realized that they had a born administrator on their hands.
So, bad news, we have to fight (What i think is) whooping cough. Good news, we get to fight the patriarchy! woo! :p
Baby Boom Ended!
Due to an increase in infant mortality from new diseases, growth rates have stabilized back to near equilibrium levels. -1 Stability due to these new mortality rates not being considered normal

Debilitating Belief Gained!
Weapons of the Gods
Metal and things that come from the heavens are cursed! While the People will use that which is already present or trade, metal mining and open study now costs Stability.
Fuckkkkkk
especially since Attrikwyn seemed set on the .
Line cut off too early here.
Choose the next heir
[] Magwyna (-1 Stability, other effects, [Poor Martial, Heroic Admin and Diplo])
[] Attrikwyn ([Good Admin, Diplo, and Martial])
[] Someone else (Standard)
Fight the patriarchy! :mad:
Choose a midturn project
[] Grand Sacrifice (-3 Econ, +2 Stability)
[] Study Metal (-2 Mysticism, -1 Econ, -1 Stability, chance of new discoveries)
[] New Trails (-1 Econ, +1 Diplo, +1 Centralization, other effects)
[] Focus on Growth (+2 Econ)
I'm surprised study health isn't an option...
 
[X] Random Admin tech upgrade
Choose the next heir

[X] Magwyna (-1 Stability, other effects, [Poor Martial, Heroic Admin and Diplo])

Choose a midturn project
[X] Grand Sacrifice (-3 Econ, +2 Stability)

Refugee policy
[X] Take in some (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
 
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[X] Random Admin tech upgrade
[X] Magwyna (-1 Stability, other effects, [Poor Martial, Heroic Admin and Diplo])
[X] Grand Sacrifice (-3 Econ, +2 Stability)
[X] Everyone can come on in! (-4 Stability, chance of further loss, +11-15 Econ, further effects, chance of over crowding, Upper Valleyhome attains True City status.

First city!
 
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Yo, if you're new vote [] notgreat. The plan is to do GS, vote in the female Hero, take an admin tech, and take the max # of people. The female hero's heroic admin will make sure we don't hit -4 stability, because it actually affects the role, WoG. Her heroic diplo will help make sure the refugees don't cause excess chaos. Together they make Restoration of Order and Festival extremely potent. We'll do Change Policy: Restoration next turn to buff our stability while we ourselves do stuff like getting a new province and starting an aqueduct that will meld the Stallions w/ us.

First Impression: Wow, fuck my ass.

Select a bonus
[] Random Admin tech upgrade
[] Random Construction tech upgrade
[] Free holy site expansion (+2 Mysticism)
[] Reassure the People of their safety and prosperity (+1 Stability)
Deeply interested in the first two; somewhat interested in the last depending on plan.

Baby Boom Ended!
Due to an increase in infant mortality from new diseases, growth rates have stabilized back to near equilibrium levels. -1 Stability due to these new mortality rates not being considered normal

Debilitating Belief Gained!
Weapons of the Gods
Metal and things that come from the heavens are cursed! While the People will use that which is already present or trade, metal mining and open study now costs Stability.
*hisses* Fuuuukk....
Choose the next heir
[] Magwyna (-1 Stability, other effects, [Poor Martial, Heroic Admin and Diplo])
[] Attrikwyn ([Good Admin, Diplo, and Martial])
[] Someone else (Standard)

Choose a midturn project
[] Grand Sacrifice (-3 Econ, +2 Stability)
[] Study Metal (-2 Mysticism, -1 Econ, -1 Stability, chance of new discoveries)
[] New Trails (-1 Econ, +1 Diplo, +1 Centralization, other effects)
[] Focus on Growth (+2 Econ)
Ughhhh Definitely Magwyn, Attrikwyn can burn in hell.

Refugee policy
[] Take in some (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[] Let it be known that you have room (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, +4-5 Econ)
[] You have lots of room (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, +6-8 Econ, chance of further effects)
[] Encourage people to come to a safe place (-3 Stability, chance of further loss, +8-11 Econ, further effects)
[] Everyone can come on in! (-4 Stability, chance of further loss, +11-15 Econ, further effects, chance of over crowding, Upper Valleyhome attains True City status)
Yes-ish to #1, maybe/probably to #2, flat no to the rest of them tbh.

[X] Random Admin tech upgrade
[X] Magwyna (-1 Stability, other effects, [Poor Martial, Heroic Admin and Diplo])
[X] Grand Sacrifice (-3 Econ, +2 Stability)
[X] Take in some (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)

This is a judicious choice that gets us back to +3 Stability but costs a net 1 Econ.
We can do Trails next turn. We can do other stuff too.

@notgreat Is this bad enough that you would no longer support The Dam or...?
 
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[] Random Admin tech upgrade
[] Magwyna (-1 Stability, other effects, [Poor Martial, Heroic Admin and Diplo])
Is the first combo I spot to hopefully resolve our centralization issues

[] Everyone can come on in! (-4 Stability, chance of further loss, +11-15 Econ, further effects, chance of over crowding, Upper Valleyhome attains True City status)

Is the bolded part a good thing or a bad thing?
 
It seems Pestilence wasn't happy with us kicking its arse. Thank goodness for The Gardens as a disease limiter though. Also, True City status. That seems like it could be a good thing.
 
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