Loop in just Kei and Snow
I would recommend including Mari into the Superchiller loop; she's another viewpoint that is (less) biased against EM Nukes FMPOV, and really I can't think of a reason to not include her.
  • Kei, apologies, but our other ideas didn't pan out and we need to know if this is viable. We don't plan to inform anyone or complete research unless things are truely desperate.
I'd rather we say that "we're feeling pessimistic on our options" rather than saying that "our other ideas didn't pan out"; the latter implies if we don't do this then we are fucked which is really alarming from Hazou-the-local-optimist.
Can you brainstorm ways to disguise the effect?
I would like to ask how badly Orochimaru/Naruto/etc. will react to us having access to nuclear weapons, if that's a thing you feel we should ask. I would like to figure out risk mitigation for Orochimaru finding out that we have EM Nuke Runes and immediately killing us to prevent them from ever being used against us/us developing other nukes that would disturb his research.

(if you need word space lmk and I can do something about it)
 
@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped

Given that we still can't summon Cannai, the exact end date of ACE matters a lot. It's looking like we're going to need to get bioseals from Oro if we can't increase CR more. Any chance the start date discrepancy will be resolved soon?
Situation unclear, most optimistic estimate 3 days away, less optimistic 15 days, realistic/pessimistic multiple months away.
Is there anything to resolve? My understanding is that @Paperclipped figured out what the date was and announced it. I didn't think there was anything left to discuss.


If Hazō were to ask Cannai whether Kakashi had ever summoned him, what would Cannai say? (The intent of this question is to gain more information on Cannai's CP requirement.)
Cannai would say that this isn't a Raymond Smullyan riddle and he doesn't speak in hypothetical scenarios, so this should probably go in a plan or at least be rephrased. :p
 
or at least be rephrased. :p
Hmm. That's my go-to phrasing for quickly answerable questions for characters that Hazō has easy access to, which you guys sometimes will answer between updates.

Changing to something that would be answerable form of an "HDK" or "Hazō heard…."

In his numerous offscreen interactions with Cannai, has Hazō ever learned anything that would indicate whether or not Kakashi had summoned Cannai to the Human Path?
 
Is there anything to resolve? My understanding is that @Paperclipped figured out what the date was and announced it. I didn't think there was anything left to discuss.
In the announcement, Paper asked if any other information about the date that ACE training started on could be found:

...
I would appreciate if anyone could find a more accurate date for when ACE training actually started, so I can set a final answer on this.

In the absence of such a date, my default answer would be to take the midpoint of the two known dates
...

We started looking for specifics on the ACE training date and a bit after the announcement, @ProperAttorney found some material that he asked to be posted on his behalf since IRL circumstances suddenly came up at the time. Quoting the post below and omitting the bits where I originally contextualized the quoted material and where I pinged the QMs for redundancy:

I think I may have found it. We were voting to have Noburi learn ACE for chapter 373, this training plan but voting was never properly closed and then a new cycle happened. People generally assumed it was implemented, since you have to pay the XP on the front end? Which I don't know if it ever happens because of how the sheets are set up. That date was August 6th. Ohhhh, I think that's the problem. We initially were told, or assumed since that's how all the other stunts work? That you had to do the year training before buying the stunt, but that voting cycle is when we were told that we had to pay the XP ahead of time so we immediately voted it in. I think we also tried to vote it in 359 and had a similar conversation where EJ wasn't set either way. I think there was quite a lot of uncertainty early on.

...

I have some recollection of the QMs deciding to have mercy on us with regards to Noburi's initial date because 1) ACE was added to the contest results after the fact and 2) there was some initial confusion as to the ooc mechanics of buying ACE.

If none of it changes the decision in Paper's announcement then so it goes, we'll work around it, but in light of Paper explicitly requesting specifics on the date it seems relevant.
 
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Is there anything to resolve? My understanding is that @Paperclipped figured out what the date was and announced it. I didn't think there was anything left to discuss
Paper went looking for the original date of April 16 and found a message from @Cariyaga dated 01/17/2022 claiming April 16 as the start date.
Where does the April 16 date come from, then? Well, after researching it, the only source for it that I found is this quote in the discord, which @eaglejarl then used as the refresh date.

However the original source of that April date was a post you made on 12/16/2021 in Discord (a month before Cari) that says in response to someone asking when Noburi is done with ACE, "April" and linking the Player timeline (IMO implying he started right when the contest ended)

I think the source of the is confusion is that ACE was added to the contest retroactively, so we couldn't have Noburi start learning it right away. And then when we did AFAIK relatively soon after it became available, it was backdated (by the QMs, not the players) to the end of the contest.

Now feel free to have the retroactive date start whenever, but the April date was first said by a QM (to the best of my knowledge) and the retroactive timeline weirdness is cuz it wasn't added until months after the contest was over.
 
Is there anything to resolve? My understanding is that @Paperclipped figured out what the date was and announced it. I didn't think there was anything left to discuss.

We started looking for specifics on the ACE training date and a bit after the announcement, @ProperAttorney found some material that he asked to be posted on his behalf since IRL circumstances suddenly came up at the time. Quoting the post below and omitting the bits where I originally contextualized the quoted material and where I pinged the QMs for redundancy:

I think this date has already been chosen before that. Here is a message from EJ mid-December that states Nob's ACE would be done in April.
discord.com

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Discord is great for playing games and chilling with friends, or even building a worldwide community. Customize your own space to talk, play, and hang out.
Stompy beat me to the punch, but yeah EJ's discord comment about the date in December (before Cari's linked comment in Paper's post) is likely the more important piece of information.
 
The issue of when ACE started is made more complicated by the following facts:
  • Players asked for ACE
  • It was retconned into existence in July (link), but IC it'd been available for us for months.
  • There was confusion over when we should be paying for it (start of the training time ? end of the training time ?)
  • It's unclear exactly which plan implemented the XP expenditure.
Therefore the start date of ACE has always been a little fuzzy. Did we buy it as soon as it became available IC because it was explicitly something we really wanted ? Did we buy it once it became available OOC ? Did we buy it at some later date due to confusion about plans and this stunt's specific purchase rules ?

EDIT: Sir Stompy, your plan repeatedly says "Rift Assualt" instead of "Rift Assault".

There are several plans right now. I'll vote for whichever one asks for biosealed CR increases.
 
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Loop in just Kei and Snow
I would recommend including Mari into the Superchiller loop; she's another viewpoint that is (less) biased against EM Nukes FMPOV, and really I can't think of a reason to not include her.
  • Kei, apologies, but our other ideas didn't pan out and we need to know if this is viable. We don't plan to inform anyone or complete research unless things are truely desperate.
I'd rather we say that "we're feeling pessimistic on our options" rather than saying that "our other ideas didn't pan out"; the latter implies if we don't do this then we are fucked which is really alarming from Hazou-the-local-optimist.
Can you brainstorm ways to disguise the effect?
I would like to ask how badly Orochimaru/Naruto/etc. will react to us having access to nuclear weapons, if that's a thing you feel we should ask. I would like to figure out risk mitigation for Orochimaru finding out that we have EM Nuke Runes and immediately killing us to prevent them from ever being used against us/us developing other nukes that would disturb his research.

(if you need word space lmk and I can do something about it)
@Sir Stompy in case you missed my post
 
[X] Action Plan: Desperate Measures

My only reason for not including Mari is that she doesn't know EM Nukes are easily replicable with runes.
OpSec about that is going to get far less relevant once we start researching it. I'd prefer to put her in the loop now if possible, as a low-cost sign of trust + potential conversational shift.

I'm also not convinced that the existential risk of "the concept of WMDs" is still real. We've just invented some incredibly good defensive tech, after all. Every village a Force Sphere !
 
Pinging also @Velorien @Paperclipped

Emphasis mine, if you look at the rolls for the chapter following this announcement you can see that we are not getting a free Invoke on the cycle following the prep day per the rules change, we are however getting the prep days.

I'm not asking you to revisit this research, but moving forward it should be incorporated.
Thank you for pointing this out. For each FP spent in this way:
  • Rift-unanchoring: I didn't actually charge this FP as it turns out, so let's call the lack of bonus a mulligan. This also keeps Hazou from having <3 FP on Day 23 when he rolls 3x -9 in a row, evading a potential runic failure.
  • Explosiver Rune: This wouldn't change the finish date.
  • Remote Explosive Rune 2.0: This wouldn't change the finish date.
  • Rift-kicking Rune: I'll edit this into the chapter -- this adds a little bit of extra progress for Hazou. Since this doesn't change finish dates or update timeline, this is cheap for me to do.
  • High-Capacity Storage Seal: This wasn't rolled.
Hopefully this is a reasonable way to resolve the issue. I'll try harder to remember the free Invoke in the future.

I don't think this FP buy makes mathematical sense. Hazou is at 2 FP to start with here, so he should be spending 10 XP and he then then refreshes to 3 and not 4, so I think this XP wasn't spent.


Should be 30 XP due to aforementioned spending error.
After discussing this, it turns out that the 50 XP spent is correct. I just didn't keep the tally correctly throughout the chapter. I will correct it.

As a thanks for being diligent, I'll award you +1 XP to a character of your choice (chosen by 1d3 among the PCs if you don't pick within 24 hours).
 
Cultivation Planning Session

It was widely understood around the leaf village that the Goketsu clan were weirdos. Not like, creepy weirdos or anything, that wouldn't be allowed on this platform. No, if you were to ask the average ninja on the on-goings of the clan and their specific objectives, the answers you'd get would range from a shrug or a weird luck, all the way down to a diatribe about how they've seen the supposed clan lord painted in green trying to 'train his sneakiness' by camouflaging on a wall on plain sight. In the middle of the day. The wall wasn't even green for the love of god Hazou would yo-

I digress.

So yeah, the Goketsu and their leader were kinda weird. This time though, things were getting out of control.

Inside the most insidy part of the Goketsu grounds, hidden from the world by several different barriers of seals and other transdimensionally aligned stuff, the highest echelons of the Goketsu Clan came together to hold a meeting. Everyone from the so-called Team Uplift, minus the weirdo-number-one and professional arms-manufacturer. The room was as bare as could be, just a sterile space with white walls, some candles on the walls for a proper atmosphere and a set of chairs with a table.

"And so we give opening to Meeting #4 Category B Rating:F3"1 of Team Uplift." Intoned Keiko from her chair, with all the magnitude and severity in her voice as she was able to direct.

Everyone looked at her for a moment, before Noburi raised his hand. "So…" he started, looking around the room a little. "Why exactly are we meeting? I thought we had already had our sub-sub-sub meeting yesterday about the way we're screwing the Hagoromo? And also, where is Hazou? Is he coming later?"

Mari shrugged. "I'm sure there is an absolutely valid reason for Hazou to not be here. And well, since when have we ever not gotten in an extra meeting on a good day? Perish the thought we actually do something interesting,"

Kei coughed on her hand. "This meeting is actually about Hazou."

"Yeah, what about him? Does he need help or anything?" Noburi asked. "You can help him with all this planning stuff, I'm not really that good at it."

"It's not that!" Kei grumbled, before sighing. "We have to make an intervention, something is wrong with Hazou lately."

"Kei dear, I'm sorry for saying this, but when isn't there something wrong with Hazou?" Mari said clearly amused.

"Please, don't tell me you haven't seen it." Kei asked imploringly.

From the other side of the table, Kagome tapped the table with his finger. "So you finally see it, huh?"

"Uhm.." Noburi mumbled slightly. "See what, exactly?"

"The ever changing moods? The ideas that come from nowhere? How he bounces from place to place as if there was something injecting thoughts into his brain?!" Kagome asked, increasing the level of his voice by the second.

Mari just sighed. "Yes, yes, we all know Hazou. I myself have learned how to deal with his…peculiarities, since this whole thing started."

"I find myself somewhat troubled to be saying this, Mari, but haven't you seen it getting worse lately?" Kei said while looking down at the table. "Just last week he was mumbling to himself all day until he went to sleep, something about 'armageddon initiative' and 'narrative tropes'. Shortly afterwards he disappeared for two hours just to come back with a twelve thousand, nine hundred and seventy three pages manifesto on strength maximizing and why increasing combat 'stats' is useless."

"That's just Hazou thought." Noburi argued. "I'm still not seeing your point."

"Noburi, yesterday he was laughing himself hoarse after seeing a green jumpsuit. He then went to a store and screamed about whales and eagles." Kei then executed sigh #23-b, also known as 'im-so-done-with-this-bullshit'. "Kagome, please help me here."

"I'm surprised it took you this long, honestly." The sealmaster said simply. "I thought that you would get it when he got into a fight with a ninja from lightning country some months ago over a shiny rock, saying it could create a 'gun of rail'."

Mari looked at him weird. "There is no lightning country in the elemental nations, Kagome."

Kagome shrugged. "Oh there was, it just disappeared one day after someone made a thousand dollar donation to the writer's paypal." Kagome looked around, and grumbled to himself seeing everyone's eyes glaze over. "Fucking stinkers."

"What?" Noburi was clearly confused at this non-sequitur.

"What I meant to say was," Kagome just continued, disappointed at seeing that they were still held by the matrix of narrative conventions. "He has started doing this kind of stuff since the rift got stolen by Orochimaru and we came back."

"The question is why, though?" Mari said, deciding to just follow along. "He has been relatively normal when speaking with me."

"Oh, he somehow becomes twenty percent more talented when doing interesting stuff on fixed two day periods, don't ask me how." Kagome shrugged. "I saw him once practicing, and after he finished harassing an anbu ninja his sealing had an immediate marked improvement."

"This sounds a little outlandish, you know that right?" Noburi was just weirded out at this point. "What, does he get rewards when he…entertains…the au-" Noburi suddenly blanched, his mind screeching at the thought.

Everything stopped.

He tried to continue speaking, but his mouth wouldn't answer.

He tried to protect himself, but his body wouldn't move.

He tried to think of a solution, but his mind wouldn't think.

What was he thinking anyway? Who was he? Why was he here? Oh, that was such a funny wall. A thin funny wall, red, purple, bluegreenyellowgold. Those eyes looked weird. Why was that whale looking at him? It was kinda big. Soooooo cute. The tentacles on the 'whale' were so funny! Hey, don't touch me, that's rood! Wait why does it have eyes? Oh it makes sense. Wait does it make sense? It makes no sense. NoooooOo waititsuredoes. W4it 5very!hing is fine! EEE5Everyth!84ueg fine. Oh look, more eyes! So pretty! OH they're approaching! Hey don't touch my face! Why do you wanna touch my brain? Oh yeah it's alright just go ahead. Where was eye? Oh right.

"-and by that focusing your efforts on the Water Flying Salamander Technique I think you can maximize your Qi usage to get the best out of your affinity while we get better cultivation materials for your next session of meditation." Hazou reasoned from his position on the podium of the Inner Sect's meeting room.

"Huh?" Noburi mumbled into himself, after having lost himself for a moment thinking about something else. Eagle northern tribal leader, what the hell was that?.

"Oh you're back." Kagome said, while vaguely scribbling cultivation notes on his notebook. "You normally take a bit longer to come back after touching that."

Noburi didn't even want to deal with that statement. "Don't you feel that things are getting weird lately?"

Kagome sighed. "The writers sold out and started posting on Royalroad. Sadly the readers over there prefer either cultivation or litrpg, and one fitted this quest better than the other."

Seeing Noburi's eyes get immediately glazed over, Kagome just sighed. "No, everything's fine. Just focus on the session and try to get help visualizing your meridians."

Noburi nodded and looked back at Hazou. Everything was fine.
Thank you for the omake! Threadmarked, and take +1 XP for your contribution.
 
[X] Action Plan: Desperate Measures
Word Count <399
Intended Duration: ~1 day
  • Discuss the Orochimaru situation with the team, including Snowflake.
    • Hazou thinks that it's likely Orochimaru fled Leaf for the same reason we did -- to research in peace.
    • Hazou doesn't think that Orochimaru is likely to betray us at this point (prior to the Rift Assault)
    • However, it makes sense to take some precautions. We'll go to the meeting with SCs only to minimize exposure to a potentially hostile Orochimaru. Unless there are objections.
      • Should we split the team to get into contact with Leaf sooner? Hazou favors Noburi (for runic preparations) and Yuno with him, and Mari to make contact with Leaf but composition is flexible.
      • Should Mari come with Hazou to detect if Orochimaru is being deceitful?
    • Hazou also thinks it would be prudent to prepare a couple deadman switches giving Leaf/TU resources to learn Runecrafting in case Orochimaru decides to eliminate his only runecrafting peer.
      • He favors giving one to Kei/Kagome and setting up one in Dog. It's necessary they be sufficiently hardened to resist Orochimaru torturing Hazou into compliance.
      • Should we consider informing Akatsuki of Orochimaru's attack as another potential dead man's switch?
    • All of our Rift Assault strategies require extra chakra from Leaf, how likely is it that Orochimaru is attempting this without drawing on them for support?
    • Kei, how likely do you think Orochimaru betraying us is? Both before we assault the Rift and afterwards. Does the assessment change if he doesn't want to involve Leaf?
    • Noburi, can you ask the Toad Sages and Gamabunta if they'd be willing to avenge Jiriaya?
  • Research
    • About Project Twilight (Superchillers), loop in Kei and Snow, (unless they strongly oobject) include Mari too -- she's familiar with the destructive power of runes.
      • Intent: Asking for harm mitigation, not permission.
      • Kei, apologies, We're feeling pessimistic about our options. We don't plan to tell anyone or complete research unless things are truely desperate.
      • Can you brainstorm ways to disguise the effect?
      • What do you two think Orochimaru's reaction would be to learning Hazou can make WMDs with runes? Would he get violent?
    • Spend one day no-prep yes-DoB researching Superchillers (codename Project Twilight) and Kagome's Tears
      • Have Noburi use Pain Supression for the research rolls
      • Fully enclose the AoE of the prototype Superchiller with a minimum size Force Dome to prevent a storm from forming.
      • Bury the rune afterwards
  • Misc
    • Set up the Dead Man's switches discussed above.
Plan updated, @faflec @Left-Hand Mutant this hopefully addresses your concerns. I'm too busy to WC optimize this tonight (cooking) but if someone else wants to try @FaintlySorcerous already got a good headstart. Otherwise we'll take the 1XP loss, no biggie.
 
[X] Action Plan: Desperate Measures

@Sir Stompy Edits I made were on the last line and a spelling correction (object, not oobject). One thing I would note -but have not corrected- is that we shouldn't just ask Kei about Orochimaru betraying us - she's not uniquely suited to figuring that out.
[X] Action Plan: Desperate Measures
Word Count 399
Intended Duration: ~1 day
  • Discuss the Orochimaru situation with the team, including Snowflake.
    • Hazou thinks that it's likely Orochimaru fled Leaf for the same reason we did -- to research in peace.
    • Hazou doesn't think that Orochimaru is likely to betray us at this point (prior to the Rift Assault)
    • However, it makes sense to take some precautions. We'll go to the meeting with SCs only to minimize exposure to a potentially hostile Orochimaru. Unless there are objections.
      • Should we split the team to get into contact with Leaf sooner? Hazou favors Noburi (for runic preparations) and Yuno with him, and Mari to make contact with Leaf but composition is flexible.
      • Should Mari come with Hazou to detect if Orochimaru is being deceitful?
    • Hazou also thinks it would be prudent to prepare a couple deadman switches giving Leaf/TU resources to learn Runecrafting in case Orochimaru decides to eliminate his only runecrafting peer.
      • He favors giving one to Kei/Kagome and setting up one in Dog. It's necessary they be sufficiently hardened to resist Orochimaru torturing Hazou into compliance.
      • Should we consider informing Akatsuki of Orochimaru's attack as another potential dead man's switch?
    • All of our Rift Assault strategies require extra chakra from Leaf, how likely is it that Orochimaru is attempting this without drawing on them for support?
    • Kei, how likely do you think Orochimaru betraying us is? Both before we assault the Rift and afterwards. Does the assessment change if he doesn't want to involve Leaf?
    • Noburi, can you ask the Toad Sages and Gamabunta if they'd be willing to avenge Jiriaya?
  • Research
    • About Project Twilight (Superchillers), loop in Kei and Snow, (unless they strongly object) include Mari too -- she's familiar with the destructive power of runes.
      • Intent: Asking for harm mitigation, not permission.
      • Kei, apologies, We're feeling pessimistic about our options. We don't plan to tell anyone or complete research unless things are truely desperate.
      • Can you brainstorm ways to disguise the effect?
      • What do you two think Orochimaru's reaction would be to learning Hazou can make WMDs with runes? Would he get violent?
    • Spend one day no-prep yes-DoB researching Superchillers (codename Project Twilight) and Kagome's Tears
      • Have Noburi use Pain Supression for the research rolls
      • Fully enclose the AoE of the prototype Superchiller with a minimum size Force Dome to prevent a storm from forming.
      • Bury the rune afterwards
  • Misc
    • Set up approved Dead Man's switches.
 
Plan updated, @faflec @Left-Hand Mutant this hopefully addresses your concerns. I'm too busy to WC optimize this tonight (cooking) but if someone else wants to try @FaintlySorcerous already got a good headstart. Otherwise we'll take the 1XP loss, no biggie.

[X] Action Plan: Desperate Measures
Nice, thanks.

Are we able to bury the Force Dome rune after Superchiller research?
I'd thought the active dome would prevent that, but it sounds like you know something I missed.

I recommend researching a "superheater" instead of a superchiller. Hazopilot previously suggested it as a better research path, and it gets much better OPSEC by not being identical to the EM "sealing failure" Hazou is known to be responsible for.

It's probably worth asking Mari to sanity check the barging position on "we'll only help you if Leaf is involved(unless you have a good reason to exclude Leaf). otherwise, we'll let you go first and try for ourselves if you fail". It seems like a great approach, but if there's something wrong with that position, It'll help enormously to hear it from Mari before we vote on how to approach Oro.
 
Are we able to bury the Force Dome rune after Superchiller research?
I'd thought the active dome would prevent that, but it sounds like you know something I missed
To the best of my knowledge they are toggleable

EDIT
In a stroke of luck, Hazō completes the Force Dome Rune! TENTATIVE mechanics: Forms over around a minute, AoE limits are twice that of Air Dome, immovable while active, unbreakable and undamageable by any force Hazou or the team is able to bring to bear

Pinging also @eaglejarl @Velorien

Emphasis mine, I took the bold to mean that Force Domes are toggleable, but it's ambiguous. However, they were invented to defend Leaf and they're not much good if they permanently bottle up the city for 6 months. So I think 'pilot designing them to be toggleable is reasonable.

Also do we know how long they last?

I recommend researching a "superheater" instead of a superchiller. Hazopilot previously suggested it as a better research path, and it gets much better OPSEC by not being identical to the EM "sealing failure" Hazou is known to be responsible for.
Do you have a quote here? I don't recall this.

I'm not changing tracks last minute anyway
 
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To the best of my knowledge they are toggleable
That's not in the Known Seals doc, or in the text as far as I can find. I was under the impression that the non-toggleability was a major drawback.

Do you have a quote here? I don't recall this.
Hazou's rant during "We got this".
He cocked his head in thought. "Actually, probably better to do it the other way. Instead of making it cold, make it hot. I turn the rune on and, a few seconds later, every breath of air within miles is hot enough to melt lead. Turn all of them to ash, and there wouldn't be any clouds gathering to provide warning.

hmm, Hazou's expected range of "miles" implies that we actually want a maximum-sized force dome.
 
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