- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
You tried offscreen for this update and it did not work. I'll edit that into the AN.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- Tags
- naruto rational rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
Wow. How on Earth was Kakashi able to do it? Did he just have capstone CR or something, or does everyone but us have secret CR boosts?
It almost certainly is - Oro downed Noburi's entire reserves at one point, he has at least 2000 CP. That said, it may not be possible to give us that on a combat-relevant timescale, and even if it was Oro likely isn't willing to just to get Cannai to fight.
@eaglejarl @Velorien @PaperclippedI think this date has already been chosen before that. Here is a message from EJ mid-December that states Nob's ACE would be done in April.
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Given that we still can't summon Cannai, the exact end date of ACE matters a lot. It's looking like we're going to need to get bioseals from Oro if we can't increase CR more. Any chance the start date discrepancy will be resolved soon?
Good news, based on linear interpolation of the summoning chart and a minimum cost of 619 CP, Cannai has at least 71.6k XP. Which enough for a pyramid with a 100s stat capstone
Why is this funny? (I suspect some reference to Naruto canon, which I am not at all familiar with.)
Problem is we can't take a Severe in testing because it won't heal in time, so we'd have to do it live and then if we failed we'd be very injured and out of chakra. (Also, personally I think it probably isn't worth it to take a Severe just to get Cannai on the battlefield; it limits our options way too much if we have to do anything significant after the battle for any reason (example: not all of Akatsuki dies and we have to fortify Leaf).
- Location
- United States
Don't forget to give us a Medium consequence for the attempt. It's not trivial in either effect or duration!
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Kakashi is notorious for running out of chakra by the end of a fight.
He already hadn't forgotten. I suggest checking the sheet before giving reminders.
- Location
- United States
Ah, I did, but I guess I forgot to refresh the page. Sorry about that.
@eaglejarl, Noburi can clear Mild Consequences immediately.
Mednin 60 + 7 (MS8) + 4FD vs TN 10 is, at a minimum, 15 shifts generated (55 vs 10). Since Mednin shifts are applied at x2 if the Medknow roll succeeds (Noburi automatically succeeds this) at least 30 shifts are applied to the Mild, that's more shifts than a Mild has (20) and so it's immediately cleared.
Noburi is so good he can even timeladder up two steps and clear it in half an hour (60 + 7 - 14 - 12 = 41 vs 10 for 11 shifts). So the Milds shouldn't even show up on the sheet if the team has a spare 30 minutes for Noburi to work.
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- Location
- United States
Understandable, my bad there.
- Location
- United States
No no, that was clearly my fault. It was a good thing for you to point out.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
I can't recall, was he able to summon Cannai? Or is it just, like, we assumed an Essie summoner would be able to summon the Boss but it turns out he never even got close?
I don't actually know - was wondering whether to raise the possibility. @faflec , any insight?
Rihaku
The Internet
Before resorting to Orochimaru, it may be worth seeing if Naruto, Tsunade or any of the major Leaf Clans have the means to grant +100 effective Chakra temporarily at acceptable cost. Tsunade or the Akimichi (given their canon pills) especially might have the capability. And Hazou's got plenty of stuff to sell them for it.
I suspect a bosses CR (and possibly xp?) is tied to how large their land/clan is.
...which might mean that Cannai is the largest non-jinchuriki boi in setting.
Noburi can roughly judge chakra reserves without draining the target. It'd be nice to get him to Cannai to at least estimate his CR.
Equilibria for actual real world nukes is roughly* "not unless you invade our borders".
That said, it's clearly uncomfortable for a number of threadgoers.
@Sir Stompy, can you please gently float the idea past Mari/Kei?
Only reasons I haven't voted stompy is that I don't want to spend a day on partial WMD research.
...which might mean that Cannai is the largest non-jinchuriki boi in setting.
Noburi can roughly judge chakra reserves without draining the target. It'd be nice to get him to Cannai to at least estimate his CR.
Eh, I think "don't take advantage of us helping you with an existential threat to betray and murder us while we're in the middle of helping you" is close to the most reasonable line possible.
Equilibria for actual real world nukes is roughly* "not unless you invade our borders".
That said, it's clearly uncomfortable for a number of threadgoers.
@Sir Stompy, can you please gently float the idea past Mari/Kei?
Glad to hear, this is the main thing I want in the coming plans.
This. It also better synchs up the chapters with QM specialities.
Only reasons I haven't voted stompy is that I don't want to spend a day on partial WMD research.
If we had no other options, maybe, but the risk of whatever Kei and co. do to set it up going wrong and warning Akatsuki unnecessarily is … worrying. We wouldn't know how it worked so we wouldn't even be able to confidently tell Oro that couldn't happen. Plus, my odds estimate for Oro backstabbing us before the actual fight is very close to zero, so the benefits seem really marginal on top of the Cannai switch; the only real reason Oro would kill us before the fight is to monopolise runecrafting and even then it would be a bad decision unless he's really confident he can beat Akatsuki alone, and the Cannai switch is much more effective than the Akatsuki switch for that issue.
I'm not a fan either, but the Kagome's Tears research is enough to bribe me. We're in northern Lightning ATM anyway, so it's not a huge distance to Rice; we're very unlikely to miss Oro as a result of taking the extra day, it just cuts into our prep time a bit.
Which idea exactly? I think I've lost the thread here
Noumero
Omit Needless Words
This one, I think:
I am against that. If we do that, it would become good decision theory for Orochimaru to ignore our dead man's switches and kill us anyway.
As-is, our dead man's switches are not, actually, deterrents. They're contingencies which turn a universe in which Oro kills us from a lose:win situation for us:Oro, into a win:lose. If Oro kills us despite our dead man's switches, we'd still prefer them to go off, because they would destroy Oro's monopoly on runecrafting and give it to people who are our allies/closer to us in values, who'd be able to act as checks on Oro. Creating these dead man's switches improves our outcomes across all possible worlds, regardless of Oro's actions.
On the other hand, empowering the Akatsuki relative to Orochimaru is not something we actually want, even if we're dead. A rune-monopolist!Orochimaru might still help Leaf defeat the Akatsuki and create an Uplift-adjacent future, whereas the Akatsuki are likely to set off a world-ending ritual and kill everyone. Therefore, if Orochimaru kills us despite our dead man's switch, we would not want our messages warning the Akatsuki about runecrafting to actually go out, because it would create a worse-by-our-values world. This kind of dead man's switch doesn't actually improve the outcomes for us, it only worsens outcomes for Orochimaru. Which means the only reason for us to create such a dead man's switch is to try and intimidate Orochimaru into yielding to us.
Which means Orochimaru ought to ignore that dead man's switch and kill us anyway, so as to create a deterrent against us building that dead man's switch to begin with. (And this deterrent might take the form not of rational calculation, but of impulsive behavior where he gets so pissed off at our perceived idiocy he lashes out and kills us on the spot, say. Two can play the game of "I am sooo crazy and irrational, you better not cross me".)
It's even worse if we're combining that with sending supplies for learning runecrafting to Leaf/our other allies, since then not only Orochimaru would be depowered relative to the Akatsuki, but our own allies as well.
Now, granted, such tactics might still work. Orochimaru is not necessarily a logical-decision-theory agent; he might yield to threats. Certainly plenty of real-life people do. But we don't actually know how competent/incompetent he is at decision theory, and modifying our dead man's switches in this way creates unnecessary additional failure states in worlds where Orochimaru is competent enough.
- Location
- United States
@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped
A few questions for y'all:
A few questions for y'all:
- If Hazō were to ask Cannai whether Kakashi had ever summoned him, what would Cannai say? (The intent of this question is to gain more information on Cannai's CP requirement.)
- In Hazō's opinion, how long would it take him to prepare sufficient reference material for someone to rediscover Primordial Sealing without Hazō's direct guidance? (The intent of this question is to see the feasibility of creating a deadman switch with Cannai that would disincentivize Orochimaru to kill Hazō to keep Runecraft to himself.)