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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Sir Stompy said:
Continue learning mednin
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The way this works is that once Noburi is done tutoring us we buy MedNin to level 10 and from then on we can level it with notes XP, correct? Have the QMs said how many levels we need in MedNin and/or MedKnow to be able to attempt researching a chakra pool emulation rune? Researching that is the main reason we're having Noburi tutor us, correct?

Just trying to make sure I understand why we're doing this and how it affects our plans and Hazou's build, would appreciate anything anyone can do to clear that up for me.
 
acidshill said:
The way this works is that once Noburi is done tutoring us we buy MedNin to level 10 and from then on we can level it with notes XP, correct? Have the QMs said how many levels we need in MedNin and/or MedKnow to be able to attempt researching a chakra pool emulation rune? Researching that is the main reason we're having Noburi tutor us, correct?

Just trying to make sure I understand why we're doing this and how it affects our plans and Hazou's build, would appreciate anything anyone can do to clear that up for me.
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1) Yes, Mednin to 10, it will take ~5 more weeks in-game time to be allowed to buy that much. Then we will level it with notes (eventually)
2) The QMs have not said, hopium is mednin 10. We are having Noburi tutor us both because we are running out of notes and because we need it for that rune.
3) There are pyramid difficulties in leveling it to 30 anytime in the near future. So we are going to go to 10 so we can (hopefully) do the chakra water rune and continue reading notes.
 
acidshill said:
The way this works is that once Noburi is done tutoring us we buy MedNin to level 10 and from then on we can level it with notes XP, correct? Have the QMs said how many levels we need in MedNin and/or MedKnow to be able to attempt researching a chakra pool emulation rune? Researching that is the main reason we're having Noburi tutor us, correct?

Just trying to make sure I understand why we're doing this and how it affects our plans and Hazou's build, would appreciate anything anyone can do to clear that up for me.
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There is no real consensus on this yet. Ideally 10 Mednin would be enough to research the chakra water runes, but we have no way of knowing that until we try. Medium case scenario is that we have to eat the mednin/medknow notes first, but that's not ideal because it artificially brings stagnancy barriers up a whole bunch. Worst case scenario is that our mednin/medknow is not enough even after eating the notes.
 
CitizenTen said:
On the one hand, yes, very strange.

On the other, I always figured there would be a skill that would make learning multiple elements easier after learning two? We've only ever learned one*(?) element? So once you learn two, you get the *Learned Multiple Elements* skill or such, and each element only gets exponentially easier.

*shadow doesn't count, because, uh, it's not in the main five? (would help explain the relative rarity of exotic elements as well, like ice, wood, lava, etc and the commonality of the "big five")
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It used to be the other way around! Originally, new elements would cost exponentially more XP to purchase, starting at 1,000 XP with no refund:
eaglejarl back in 2017 said:
Nope. It cost exactly as much as we intended it to cost: 15,000 to get all five elements. Something that only a 99%er would do, only if they had a good reason, and only after a couple decades of work.
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To be clear, that's 1000 XP for your second element, 2000 XP for your third, 4000 XP for your fourth, and 8000 XP for the last. All with no refunds. They've been talked down from that piece by piece over the years, and ngl it makes it hard for me to still think of 1000-refund-500 as all that expensive, even though I agree with Shrooms' analysis of how bad of a build decision that would be for a typical chuunin or clan genin.

If that was all a long-term master plan by the QMs to anchor our expectations high so that we'd more readily accept 1000-refund-500, all I can say is "well played".
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
It used to be the other way around! Originally, new elements would cost exponentially more XP to purchase, starting at 1,000 XP with no refund:

To be clear, that's 1000 XP for your second element, 2000 XP for your third, 4000 XP for your fourth, and 8000 XP for the last. All with no refunds. They've been talked down from that piece by piece over the years, and ngl it makes it hard for me to still think of 1000-refund-500 as all that expensive, even though I agree with Shrooms' analysis of how bad of a build decision that would be for a typical chuunin or clan genin.

If that was all a long-term master plan by the QMs to anchor our expectations high so that we'd more readily accept 1000-refund-500, all I can say is "well played".
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I had forgotten about that insanity. I think it's still too expensive to learn an element if to this day, the only extra element we've picked up has been Kei's shadow element which was against our will.
 
ProperAttorney said:
I had forgotten about that insanity. I think it's still too expensive to learn an element if to this day, the only extra element we've picked up has been Kei's shadow element which was against our will.
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To be fair, we have Hazou picking up lightning on the docket. We're just trying to level 4 different research categories first. The average ninjutsu isn't going for a multidisciplinary PhD in Generalized Chakra Studies like our boy Hazou. Even doing both TH and sealing is a very rare thing (if Jiraiya and Hiruzen's diary conversation, or everyone we've met that doesn't have both, is anything to go off of).

And from what we know, some of the moves are powerful from shadow. We just don't want to invest without seeing them, and without seeing them there's less reason to invest. I am a bit disappointed we didn't see any in action during any of the fighting though.
 
Sir Stompy said:
3) There are pyramid difficulties in leveling it to 30 anytime in the near future. So we are going to go to 10 so we can (hopefully) do the chakra water rune and continue reading notes.
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Honestly there's a pretty easy way to get it to 30 super quickly. Just buy Athletics to 40 and then use note XP to jump straight to 30 in mednin
 
Halberdier said:
And from what we know, some of the moves are powerful from shadow. We just don't want to invest without seeing them, and without seeing them there's less reason to invest. I am a bit disappointed we didn't see any in action during any of the fighting though.
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[X] convince Kei to explain her shadow-element jutsu to Hazou now that we're missing-nin.

We're already sharing Shadow Clone with whoever the fuck we want, and also Missing-nin are treated as legally non-existent for clan-secret and technique-theft purposes. Just tell us the Jutsu so we can keep planning your build effectively.
 
ProperAttorney said:
I had forgotten about that insanity. I think it's still too expensive to learn an element if to this day, the only extra element we've picked up has been Kei's shadow element which was against our will.
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In QM defense, as I remember this, it was 100% player requested. We were asking why she'd been in the Nara so long and learning their stuff with nothing to show for it.

I think the players are mostly butthurt that we don't know what her jutsu do :V

Halberdier said:
To be fair, we have Hazou picking up lightning on the docket.
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On the other hand, this was completely unthinkable until we had Orochimaru-tier ninjutsu available. Like it wasn't even something we were strongly determined to do way down the line when we were S-Rank, there was barely any reason or incentive to get another element.

And I understand/agree that strength of available ninjutsu should factor into people deciding to pick an element up - I just don't think the vast, vast majority of people learning a new element are going to have access to Oro-tier ninjutsu. Some of the better clans will probably have some decent-to-great stuff, but even clanless jonin or jonin from suckier clans decide to learn several elements for one reason or another. I don't think the current price matches the existing incentives, and that price is itself pretty hard to reasonably achieve in a reasonable amount of time without a genius base rate.
 
Left-Hand Mutant said:
[X] convince Kei to explain her shadow-element jutsu to Hazou now that we're missing-nin.

We're already sharing Shadow Clone with whoever the fuck we want, and also Missing-nin are treated as legally non-existent for clan-secret and technique-theft purposes. Just tell us the Jutsu so we can keep planning your build effectively.
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I LOVE TREASON

LET'S COOK, KEI AND/OR SNOWFLAKE

best girl already hinted to us about Yin chakra, I bet she'd spill :V
 
Oneiros said:
Honestly there's a pretty easy way to get it to 30 super quickly. Just buy Athletics to 40 and then use note XP to jump straight to 30 in mednin
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Yes, we could do this, but it has trade-offs later on down the line that make it harder to raise combat stats. We're best off not raising med stats to 30s until after we learn Lightning.

So like.....4k XP? I forget the total. A good amount.
 
ProperAttorney said:
I had forgotten about that insanity. I think it's still too expensive to learn an element if to this day, the only extra element we've picked up has been Kei's shadow element which was against our will.
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It was a 500 XP element too, not even full cost.
Shrooms said:
I think the players are mostly butthurt that we don't know what her jutsu do :V
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I can only assume they are UNLEVELABLE without knowing what they do.

The QMs think some WILD jutsu are actually good. Geode Coffin??? I will not buy this jutsu without knowing what it does.
Shrooms said:
I LOVE TREASON

LET'S COOK, KEI AND/OR SNOWFLAKE

best girl already hinted to us about Yin chakra, I bet she'd spill :V
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Just rizz her up until she spills the beans. Should take about 5-10 minutes tops.
 
Isn't Hazo learning Mednin from Noburi directly cutting into his self research on whether Shadow Clone is safe to cast or not? Are we prioritising recreating the pool over Noburi getting SC?
 
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Shrooms said:
(FWIW Kanna is also a ninjutsu spec.) Kanna's Interlude explicitly states she was promoted to Special Jonin after learning 4 elements. She later became a full jonin with all 5 IIRC.
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Ah, I see - Kanna's interlude doesn't include Kanna's name in the text. That's profoundly unhelpful for searching. And yes, four elements as a chuunin (even a ninjutsu spec) sounds excessive; but in fairness, this was way before the QMs invented stagnancy, so they wouldn't have considered that as a factor in how reasonable it was. Or she could have been as good as a jounin, but not actually a jounin for whatever reason (maybe the same reason Zabuza said "all jounin should have the five elements" or whatever his line was; Mist jounin promitions might have weird requirements).

Shrooms said:
We've been told a few times that learning new elements is something done to PREPARE for being a jonin, not something you get around to after a few years of being one. Asuma was recommending Akane get more elements as a chuunin for this same reason.
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He was? The scene is:
Paperclipped said:
"In the long run, you should develop additional elements. Fire Element ninjutsu are strong offensively, but rarely have adequate defensive or mobility options. Your mobility is important. Not only is it the primary obstacle to using your superior close-combat skills to destroy any enemies, but your survival in adverse situations depends on your ability to escape. You will not be able to win every fight you get into, Akane. Between strong mobility ninjutsu and skywalkers, you should at least be able to escape any fight you cannot win. You are well stocked on skywalkers, correct? Ensure you have at least two hours of flight time before any mission you take."
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Note that "in the long run" - this is right after Asuma says Akane could probably be promoted to combat spec-jounin right now if she wanted, so if he's telling her to do it in the long run rather than in the short or medium run, that suggests it's a thing that would be happening after she's very solidly combat spec-jounin and maybe full jounin. Or are you referring to a different quote?
 
Kyreneryk said:
Or are you referring to a different quote?
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Nope that was the quote I was thinking of. I'll grant you can parse it many ways, though I would also note that without FOOM the gap from "maybe could be a special jonin if I knew your tricks" to "full jonin" is quite large itself. Years worth of xp even for a decent 4/day rate. (Not to mention that the QM definition of full jonin plausibly seems to include having learned multiple elements).
 
DanZapman said:
They at least said one of them was like Substitution with buffs, right? Substitution is a staple, that one sounds fine.
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Shadow step, and yes it sounds pretty good. I think a lot of these don't need to be leveled super high either/their maximal utility is lower on the pyramid, kinda like the pang jutsu, but we also kinda need to see them in action to know... I don't think she's used shadow step yet has she?
 
Halberdier said:
It would be really funny if a random ninja finds the speed up rune, briefly stays there because it's so cool, goes back to tell their friends, and then it's blown up and no longer working by the time they return.
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You're a monster. (Snerk)
And we aren't leaving anything like that on purpose. Gods, I loath person-found-cool-thing-and-tries-to-show-evidence-but-the-world-says-no plotlines; they kick my anxiety into overdrive and serve as a communications issue that makes me start itching.

Inferno Vulpix said:
Random ninja probably doesn't even notice the effect. Haven't you ever looked at the clock and been surprised at what time it was? The EN doesn't have pocketwatches so ninja are gonna tell their time by the sun, and there's no way they're gonna think the sun is telling time wrong. Odds are they'd feel like it was a particularly long day, they'd feel more sleepy than usual as night falls, and summarily brush it off as a coincidence.

Unless it's Ami. Ami would probably find a way to notice the discrepancy.
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And so we are safe from contrived plotlines of poor confused ninja who didn't cry wolf but are treated like it anyways. By logic.

Unless Ami returns into existence merely to mock us, but that seems… unlikely?
 
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