Remove ads

Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

Reader mode
[X] Action Plan: A Murdering of Leopards

Inferno Vulpix said:
extra risk, of the "sudden Jounin to the face" variety but also the "this group has a cub and now we can't use any of our AoE tricks lest we put their life at risk".
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
If anyone approaches us right now and is mixed in the attack group then they shouldn't be considered cubs anymore than twelve year old genin are considered children. Cubs are Leopards too young to charge at enemy Dogs. Or at least that's how I'd expect Hazō to see it, given that the last group are the first Leopards he's seen outside of their Crusade delegation and he has no clue if age-size correlation for them works like it does for Pangolin and Arachnid and such.
Veedrac said:
For some context about reasonable assumptions, I thought only Hyūga could do this because it's useless for everyone else. Like, you can't make hand seals with your elbows, so what are you training this for, the ability to water-walk like a dog?

This holds even if you include sealing, since the majority of people only use explosive and storage seals, neither of which you really have want to trigger from the side of your face.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I kind of thought the same. It never seemed to me like the Hyūga had what's essentially a secondary Bloodline ability technically unrelated to their eyes. But I get if that's not the case. The argument could otherwise be made that there would be more top tier ninja finding some use for chakra expulsion from other body parts, even if it is niche.

Hmm. Would Mari know of any chakra manipulations that make intercourse more interesting?
 
Last edited:
Sir Stompy said:
I also think that if we get 11 kills, but are running low on chakra and it's time to GTFO, Cannai isn't going to care if we're a little short.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

From what I understood, the number 12 was kinda important, because it was a direct retaliation for the Leopards killing 6 (non-combatant iirc) dogs. So 11 does not fully send the intended message.

That said, Cannai wants us to prioritize the safety of both Hazo and the pack. He'll totally understand if we retreat because we're low on chakra and/or expect stronger enemies to rally on us.

There is also the possibility of retreating today and going back tomorrow for more kills, crossing the border somewhere else.
 
Rafin said:
The argument could otherwise be made that there would be more top tier ninja finding some use for chakra expulsion from other body parts, even if it is niche.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Fire Breath does this, right? So there's evidence that it's happened.
By which I really mean, "I don't know the MfD explanation for breathing fire, but had default assumed it was the same as the canon one, because I don't recall MfD ever saying anything about it."
 
Last edited:
Paperclipped said:
Why does it matter? This is annoying to calculate and I'd rather not do it if it doesn't actually inform your action plans.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
For Kazushi: a concern that his ambition will outpace his skill and create a sealing failure that kills him/others, as it did with our other sealmaster.

For Reo: I'd like to know when we can start assigning him THing projects. I'd like to wait until after he's done reading the notes, but if he needs a project to unstagnate, then I'd like to try and get some measure of his THing skill so that we don't accidentally kill him by assigning a project that's too difficult.
 
My stance on things being discussed:

1- Pee on leopards
2- Kill leopards (not in that order)
3- Retreat if expecting casualties. Dog lives are worth more than leopard kills.
3.5- Yes, even if we've only got 4 leopards killed in total. We can heal, regen, then come back and do another raid. Dog/Leopard is in a state of constant conflict and frequent raids, there will be more opportunities. It's not worth trying to get the 12 kills all in one outing if we lose dogs in the process. (Note that I am not suggesting we retreat immediately. I'm currently under the impression we can press on and are discussing options out of caution)
4- Give Kei some pleasant socials. For narrative reasons. Long live narration!
4.5- Can deceit emulate pleasant socials? Pretending to enjoy spending time with somebody to build rapport in the non-mechanical sense of the term? I might accept deceit working narratively for Kei's purposes, but think learning actual social skills would be healthier for her.
 
Last edited:
RoadWild said:
Here you go, courtesy of ROTP!
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Hey @RandomOTP do Jutsu contribute or are involved in the skill pyramid? It seems the build assumes that? But I've looked at the rules and from my reading only skills contribute to the pyramid? Am I missing something?

On reflection, something seems to be capping Jutsu levels? As it seems we can't just throw a billion XP into a single Jutsu(?) and become god? (Or am I wrong about that as well?)
 
CitizenTen said:
Hey @RandomOTP do Jutsu contribute or are involved in the skill pyramid? It seems the build assumes that? But I've looked at the rules and from my reading only skills contribute to the pyramid? Am I missing something?

On reflection, something seems to be capping Jutsu levels? As it seems we can't just throw a billion XP into a single Jutsu(?) and become god? (Or am I wrong about that as well?)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yeah, jutsu and skills are treated the same way, for the purposes of pyramids. And pyramids are segmented off by 10s, so jutsu and skills don't start counting towards the pyramid until they're leveled to level 10.

You can have an infinite amount of level 10 stats or jutsu. They serve as the foundation of your pyramid. But that said...

To have one jutsu/skill at level 20, then you need (at least) two skills/jutsu at level 10.

To have one jutsu/skill at level 30, you need (at least) two skills/jutsu at level 20, and then (at least) three at level 10.

To have one skill/jutsu at level 40, you need (at least) two skills/jutsu at level 30, then (at least) three skills/jutsu at level 20, and finally you'll need (at least) four skills/jutsu at level 10.

And the trend continues on, all the way until infinity.

So if you want to have one skill or jutsu at level 1,000, then you need two skills at level 990, three skills at 980, and so on.
 
Before I begin reading today's backlog on discord + SV, I'm putting on record my prediction that crippling instead of killing is a direct violation of Cannai's orders.
 
I think we should either inflict Severes (thus taking these Leopards out of the war) and let them go, or just kill them.

Crippling captives from a Summoning Clan that isn't eusocial enough to care about their fellow Leopards... it feels more like senseless violence than sending a message.

If you hurt a human, then their wider social network gets upset. Friends, coworkers, family members, acquaintances, etc. Leopards don't have that. They're not social enough. It wouldn't send a message, it would... just be violence. Pointless violence. It feels like something Yagura or Pantsaa would do.

Inflicting a Severe Consequence (breaking a leg, instead of hacking it off) would take Leopards out of the war.

If we're going to kill them, then let's kill them and leave the bodies out to rot. If we're not going to kill them, then let's inflict just enough violence to remove them from the war.
 
RandomOTP said:
I think we should either inflict Severes (thus taking these Leopards out of the war) and let them go, or just kill them.

Crippling captives from a Summoning Clan that isn't eusocial enough to care about their fellow Leopards... it feels more like senseless violence than sending a message.

If you hurt a human, then their wider social network gets upset. Friends, coworkers, family members, acquaintances, etc. Leopards don't have that. They're not social enough. It wouldn't send a message, it would... just be violence. Pointless violence. It feels like something Yagura or Pantsaa would do.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
They already have Severes.

I don't want them to warn the encampment if we get delayed for some reason, that means making sure they can't walk at the least.

I also don't want them coming back in 2 years for revenge. That means making sure they can't ever fight again. For humans I'd recommend cutting off a few of their fingers so they can't cast jutsu or hold weapons. It's a little more complex for Leopards, but crushing a joint or two should do the trick.
 
What if we capture them? Like, drag them onto a Skytower a billion miles in the air, then on our way back to Dog we pick them up.
 
faflec said:
What if we capture them? Like, drag them onto a Skytower a billion miles in the air, then on our way back to Dog we pick them up.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Why. What does this accomplish that killing them does not?
 
Hm. Would it be bad if we adopted a Seventh Path culture of kidnapping members of rival clans and trading them back for ransom? That's the only other justification I could make for capturing them. Well, that and using them as additional leverage to get Hyōhakken to talk with Cannai.
 
RandomOTP said:
For Kazushi: a concern that his ambition will outpace his skill and create a sealing failure that kills him/others, as it did with our other sealmaster.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Is this likely to lead to any change in action plans, in your expectation?

RandomOTP said:
For Reo: I'd like to know when we can start assigning him THing projects. I'd like to wait until after he's done reading the notes, but if he needs a project to unstagnate, then I'd like to try and get some measure of his THing skill so that we don't accidentally kill him by assigning a project that's too difficult.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
What projects would you want to assign him that are likely to be narratively relevant?
 
Sir Stompy said:
Separate them, then exploit their self-interest -- promise to let whoever gives the most information live.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Let's not make more promises on the 7th path so easily. We should just threaten to torture them or actually torture them. (Is torture a topic we need to avoid? If so I'll delete.)

Sir Stompy said:
Plan A - Retreat to the Dog to rest/recover chakra, leaving behind traps -- skyslicers on the boundary of a SCSA would be almost impossible to spot.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This could kill cubs. I don't think it's a good idea if we're already leaving the area. Even if the skyslicers only kill adult Leopards, we won't know and thus won't make progress toward our quota. Our goal is a specific number.

Sir Stompy said:
  • Let whoever cooperates more live, but cripple them so they can't warn anyone or fight
    • Alternatively, kill them both, Hazou won't tell anyone if Cancurunchu won't
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Why would Cancurunchu care if we kill the prisoners? The phrasing implies that Dogs follow the same social norms as 21st century modern humans in regards to treatment of prisoners.

To quote Cannai: "I expect you to fight intelligently, keeping yourself and your troops alive and able. Ambush your enemies, use deceit, stack the odds in your favor. Do not charge in like an idiot. There is no concept of 'fair' when teeth are reddened, and you should put such notions aside if you hold them."

We should kill both prisoners after interrogating them, resorting to torture if necessary. It furthers the mission goal, ensures information won't be leaked, doesn't waste resources on managing prisoners, and has no risk of alienating Dogs like I suspect proposing crippling might.
 
Pharos said:
Why would Cancurunchu care if we kill the prisoners?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Stompy's concern is that promising to let the most cooperative & informative prisoner go free commits us to a deal that 7th path denizens will hold us to. If we kill the prisoners after promising to let them go free we might be an "oath breaker". Like how the rats and Pangolins at the Conclave made a big deal about Hazo breaking the Skywalker deal.
 
Sir Stompy said:
  • Sanity check this with Cancurunchu first - Interrogate the wounded Leopards, most Intimidating Dog takes point.
    • Separate them, then exploit their self-interest -- promise to let whoever gives the most information live.
      • What was your target in Dog?
      • How many Leopards are in the area?
      • How far away are they?
      • How many jounin/chunin/genin equivalent warriors are there?
        • Any ranged fighters?
      • Are there any settlements/encampments nearby?
    • Let whoever cooperates more live, but cripple them so they can't warn anyone or fight
      • Alternatively, kill them both, Hazou won't tell anyone if Cancurunchu won't
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Given the dichotomy between the two voices in this plan and in thread, one which IMO risks doing things potentially in bad taste for the Dogs and also doesn't seem likely to provide us useful advantage, and another with claims that after going on a slaughter-quest to kill Leopards Hazō should start sparing Leopards that we just fought in battle despite this historically never working, I suggest this plan instead:
  • Take an explicit noninterventionist stance on the wounded Leopards.
    • We don't object to their killing or marking, but also won't participate outside of combat.
    • If opportunity arises, ask the Leopards if they have any reasonable last requests.
The last bullet point is personal taste and can easily be removed.
 
Last edited:
Paperclipped said:
What projects would you want to assign him that are likely to be narratively relevant?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
An improved Fire Lash (or other Fire Ninjutsu) for Sasha to replace as her primary attack stat, post Ath/Alt 40.

The plan was to always have Napalm Shot be regulated to her secondary attack stat down the road, but I'll admit that it's not relevant for a long while.


Paperclipped said:
Is this likely to lead to any change in action plans, in your expectation?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Not likely, save for kicking various Uplift seals his way, and being able to gauge what he can handle and what he can't.

I don't think Kazushi would blindly reach for research beyond his skill, but I also worry he'd overreach while trying to imitate or impress Hazou.

None of this is pressing, and it can likely wait several IRL months before it becomes an issue (indeed, if it becomes one at all).

I just don't want to be caught offguard, six months down the road, reading about how Reo/Kazushi killed themselves trying to impress Hazou, with a subtext of "this was a pretty easy deduction/warning that the playerbase really should've picked up on, given what was presented to them."
 
faflec said:
That's the only other justification I could make for capturing them.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
could subvert them into spies in return for continuous payment of meat/goods. if other leopards see us with a leopard they will hesitate more to attack us before talking, given they don't attack each other every second they are in each other's sight.
Veedrac said:
start sparing Leopards that we just fought in battle despite this historically never working
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
leopard psychology is different from human. but also i'm interested in what is the historical evidence?
 
I think we're losing a meaningful opportunity here:
  • Kill the leopard prisoners
    • Say "for Jashin" before each execution
    • Decapitate them with a Force Blade seal
    • Afterwards, paint or carve Jashin's symbol on each head

^This is intended to teach Jashin that force-blade kills are dedicated to him and should count towards Hazo's tab.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top