As a third option for Noburi: summon the toad sages in Tsunade's presence, tell them he's decided to accept both offers, humbly request that they work out among the three of them a schedule which won't get him killed. I mean, if they wanted something more exclusive, could've just called it a proper apprenticeship, right?
 
...could Noburi not train with Tsunade all day and then with the Sages at night? I can see Tsunade's training being long because it's a lot of theoretical, knowledge-based, and chakra bullshit, but the Sages' should be physical right? Can't be more than a few hours.
 
what?


WHAT


Huh. I didn't expect that.


That's about as good as we could have gotten, I think.
How about selling high-yield crops, and training in how to cultivate them, to the rest of the Elemental Nations through AMITY? Maybe turn it into an all-pay auction for the next unclaimed summon scroll, bids to be evaluated based on how much they contribute to long-term regional political stability. Akatsuki could maybe actually be trusted as arbitrators, since they've got a genuine interest in such stability, and so little to gain by stealing a scroll.
Then, somewhere in the fine print, include a clause that it has to be referred to as "Snake Rice" in all the official trade agreements and so on for deals to be considered valid. Should be easy to remember, plausible as a reference to the mobility and aggression, but subtly gives Oro back the credit for having created it - in a way that'll last, since foreign peasants might keep calling it that long after formal paperwork rots away.
 
...could Noburi not train with Tsunade all day and then with the Sages at night? I can see Tsunade's training being long because it's a lot of theoretical, knowledge-based, and chakra bullshit, but the Sages' should be physical right? Can't be more than a few hours.
We learn TH for 12 hours a day, but I don't think we spend all that time with Haruhisa in direct lessons. Rather, I think some portion of those 12 hours are expected to be "homework", practicing what you've learned today and reviewing what you've learned so that it sinks in in time for your next lesson. These 12 hours are meant to represent a "full time" commitment, because the few hours left in the day are likely to be filled up by food and chores and such. You're saddled with enough work to monopolize your time without interfering with your ability to keep up your day-to-day life.

This is, as I understand it, also the model for learning Sealing and Summoning. Broadly speaking, it looks like the QMs model any "full time" learning experience as requiring a "full time" commitment, approximately 12 hours of your day, regardless of how much is spent in direct tutelage versus self-study. I figure the same will be true for both Tsunade and the Toad Sages. Tsunade because, as you said, it's all very theoretical, much like Sealing/Summoning/TH, but the Toad Sages aren't just aiming to raise Noburi's Physique. Alertness, ninjutsu, any and all ninja skills they feel are relevant to making Noburi a summoner worthy of the Toads. Jiraiya, basically. They're teaching him how to be Jiraiya and he'll be learning and practicing everything that entails. I easily see them going "here's a fancy chakra manipulation, go practice it for the next few hours and make sure to have it mastered by tomorrow's session, we'll be using it to help you learn <mumble mumble>".

(And, while we don't typically run into "out of chakra" problems when studying any of the forementioned disciplines, even if the Toad Sages' training is heavily chakra-intensive it's so not a problem for Noburi. So, so much not a problem for Noburi. That just leaves physical exertion and strain, but hey, there's plenty of stuff to learn and all day to learn it.)

In short, I find it really hard to imagine that Noburi can pull off both at once, unless he goes to Orochimaru and picks up that anti-sleep bioseal.
 
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Broadly speaking, it looks like the QMs model any "full time" learning experience as requiring a "full time" commitment, approximately 12 hours of your day, regardless of how much is spent in direct tutelage versus self-study. I figure the same will be true for both Tsunade and the Toad Sages.
Not to mention, Noburi is also going to be Acting Clan Head of the Goketsu Clan.
 
how many lives had Orochimaru saved?

"Oro was here until the end," Lady Tsunade growled. "He died a hero."

For the first time, Pain flinched in surprise.

"He really was the best of us," he said thoughtfully after a second. "He had the resolve to leave. The resourcefulness to survive our assault. The courage to challenge what he knew were impossible odds. Perhaps if he'd fought with us rather than against us…"
- Man who tried to God-Tree the world

Oro for Hokage 1073! Step down Fox boy!
 
Is there any real reason Noburi can't study under the Toad Sages every odd day and under Tsunade every even day?

I mean, the Toad Sages had even suggested that they switch off to avoid spending too much time on this individually. Spreading this out should only make them happier about the arrangement, no? (Or, at least, that's an argument we could field to sociopolitically maneuver them into grudgingly accepting this.) And Tsunade is suggesting some sort of collaborative research project, not actual apprenticeship; doing it on alternating days should be perfectly reasonable.

Indeed, of all the things our educational systems get wrong, interleaving-based learning is not one of them. So the above arrangement should be the superior option, as far as Noburi's growth is concerned.
 
Maybe he shouldn't, actually, then? That's one load off his shoulders. Give it to Mari or one of the Leaf adoptees.
Mari loathes leadership and doesn't trust herself with it. As for the adoptees... Haru is the only one who's shown leadership skills or initiative. That's partly why we adopted him. And he's also been training socials under Mari for the last year or so.

I'd be okay with Haru.

I suppose Reo or Atomu are technically also options, but we have WoG that nobody respects amputees in Leaf --that's why we didn't make Atomu our ambassador to other clans, way back when.
 
I'd like to lean a little harder on the Toad sage scales. Point out that it's a few months of not-apprenticeship with Tsunade vs years of training with the sages.
Emphasise TH training as potentially critical to Necromancy.
At the end, explicitly say that we recommend Toad Sages.
  • Toad Sages
    • Pros: Taught Jiraiya, know Sage Mode, TH training/FOOMing on Seventh Path for Hazou, need to stay on good terms to remain Toad Summoner, potentially years of training
    • Cons: Tsunade - Noburi's chosen profession means he has to interact with her occasionally
  • Tsunade
    • Pros: Immediate boost in power, lots of cool medical jutsu, reputation as a doctor
    • Cons: Disrespecting the Toads, leaves Hazou's training in question, might jeopardize Necromancy, only a few months long
  • On balance, Hazou prefers the Toad Sages, but be clear that the final decision is up to him.
Edits in bold.
Will vote for plans that explain why we recommend Noburi go with the toads; and either quickly generate some cash, or else head in the direction of that magic spring in Sand. Cool adventures, power ups, that good XP, and not being destitute, yay!
I do plan to go gold-mining if the QMs get back to me about this with a "yes". Am planning on poking them more this cycle if I haven't heard back by tomorrow.

My plan does recommend we go with the Toad Sages for Nobs.

I don't see a particular reason to visit the chakra caves right now. What's the case for doing so? It seems like something we would want to do right before Hazou unstagnates.
@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped

Just asking for an update on this with Tsunade demanding money in this most recent update. Do we urgently need to go gold-mining?
 
Is there any real reason Noburi can't study under the Toad Sages every odd day and under Tsunade every even day?

I mean, the Toad Sages had even suggested that they switch off to avoid spending too much time on this individually. Spreading this out should only make them happier about the arrangement, no? (Or, at least, that's an argument we could field to sociopolitically maneuver them into grudgingly accepting this.) And Tsunade is suggesting some sort of collaborative research project, not actual apprenticeship; doing it on alternating days should be perfectly reasonable.

Indeed, of all the things our educational systems get wrong, interleaving-based learning is not one of them. So the above arrangement should be the superior option, as far as Noburi's growth is concerned.
@Sir Stompy, signal-boosting this. Any interest in floating this idea to our IC planners?

Mari loathes leadership and doesn't trust herself with it. As for the adoptees... Haru is the only one who's shown leadership skills or initiative. That's partly why we adopted him. And he's also been training socials under Mari for the last year or so.

I'd be okay with Haru.
Sure, that seems fine. As long as Mari is still holding his strings.
 
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...could Noburi not train with Tsunade all day and then with the Sages at night? I can see Tsunade's training being long because it's a lot of theoretical, knowledge-based, and chakra bullshit, but the Sages' should be physical right? Can't be more than a few hours.
Is there any real reason Noburi can't study under the Toad Sages every odd day and under Tsunade every even day?
As a third option for Noburi: summon the toad sages in Tsunade's presence, tell them he's decided to accept both offers, humbly request that they work out among the three of them a schedule which won't get him killed. I mean, if they wanted something more exclusive, could've just called it a proper apprenticeship, right?
I'm going to fourth this as well. I forgot that these are both part-time commitments, and taking a third option here actually sounds pretty viable.
 
[X] Action Plan: Leavetaking

@Sir Stompy, minor suggestion: add a line encouraging Mari to be proactive and try creative ambitious projects (i. e., projects in the same reference class as MARI and her chocolate scheme – except relevant to our current goals), rather than merely holding down the fort.
 
I'm going to fourth this as well. I forgot that these are both part-time commitments, and taking a third option here actually sounds pretty viable.
They're very much not both part-time commitments.
"Basically, if you piss us off or slack on the training, you're out," Fukasaku said, puffing on his pipe. "We'll expect some serious dedication
Taking 50% of days off is what they would call "slacking". I am willing to ask this but y'all should not get your hopes up.
 
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[X] Action Plan: Leavetaking

@Sir Stompy, minor suggestion: add a line encouraging Mari to be proactive and try creative ambitious projects (i. e., projects in the same reference class as MARI and her chocolate scheme – except relevant to our current goals), rather than merely holding down the fort.
Are you sure? The chocolate thing didn't go so well.... I think I'd prefer to come back to a clan that was not currently on fire.
 
Are you sure? The chocolate thing didn't go so well.... I think I'd prefer to come back to a clan that was not currently on fire.
I'd prefer it if the Leaf contingent did something useful for the singularly important cause of stopping the end of the world as we know it. If that risks setting the clan on fire... So be it? I'd take a 50% risk of that for a 50% chance at getting a +10% to our probability of winning against the Akatsuki, say.
 
If Noburi/Mari doesn't think that'll work out with the toad sages and Tsunade, then we could instead have Naruto order Noburi to work with Tsunade. Avoids it being Noburi's fault.
 
Pretty easy to make time for it, imo. Just head out to the gold mine as our first destination after leaving, and spend a day sucking up all the gold and ferrying it back to Leaf through 7Path. Then just resume normal operations.

As I understand it, our M.O. is primarily to research as we go. Find a secluded spot, do a research cycle, then move to the next spot during our SSA days. I wouldn't be surprised if visiting the mine took approximately zero time away from our research if we timed it right.
I mean, it seems like it would take a day of mine-sucking away from research, but I agree that that is fairly small, given relative consequences and timescales. Iron would be more helpful for internal production and less likely to destabilize the currency markets though, even if the payout wouldn't be as large.
 
If Noburi/Mari doesn't think that'll work out with the toad sages and Tsunade, then we could instead have Naruto order Noburi to work with Tsunade. Avoids it being Noburi's fault.
That feels technically true, except (1) if they ever found out, and (2) still not the better deal, and (3) that may help unruffle their feathers so they don't, like, kick him out (yes these toads have feathers), but I don't think it will be enough for training to be on the table again, or at least not during the time scope of the quest based on current pacing.
 
As another angle for improving nutrition, how about a variant storage seal - or better yet a civilian-operable rune - specifically optimized for long-term grain stockpiles? Maybe with a free side-order of threshing (storing only the edible parts, leaving empty husks behind), milling (via carefully tuned application of storage stress), and dispensing the resulting flour in standard quantities.
Ideally, could have it keep track of IDs and adjust behavior based on how full it is. Something like...
99%+: when grain is added, dispense an equal amount of flour immediately to avoid overloading
80-98%: anybody who's lived nearby for at least a week can take as much flour as they like, one kg at a time
60-79%: anybody who's personally loaded grain into the input hopper can withdraw up to twice that much flour
40-59%: siege rationing, weekly per-person limit is kg = consecutive months living nearby
0-39%: famine rationing, weekly per-person limit is 5 kg for everyone
 
or better yet a civilian-operable rune
Without commenting on the rest, we've gone over civilian-operable X being a bad idea and I don't think this changes the calculus there. Civilians being irrelevant to ninja warfare is a large factor in them not being used as cannon fodder. If they start being able to use any form of seal or rune the motive now exists to use them for cannon fodder with combat seals or runes.
 
What are the current state of the Goketsu finances? We were in a tight spot immediately post-election, and then got an infusion of cash from Oro while he was refilling from Noburi for a solid ~week or so.

I ask because I want to figure out if we need to squeeze a mission to our gold mine in before we start researching.
Thankfully, it's been long enough that some of the gemstone money has started coming in. While most of the money should be earmarked for the Kurusu and Tsunade, Mari has helpfully liberated some of it to ease the otherwise razor-thin Gōketsu balance sheets. The estate-construction fund is still empty, the Ministry's coffers are still misappropriated, and the Ministry and road missions are still suspended, but the GED and seal bank continue to operate, and Gaku has even authorized a very small amount of till-n-fill subsidies.

Unfortunately, the clan is still dealing with some loans, and the mortgage on the gold mine isn't getting any cheaper. Overall, the situation is stable, but still pretty poor.

Just asking for an update on this with Tsunade demanding money in this most recent update. Do we urgently need to go gold-mining?
The Gōketsu Clan does not currently have the liquidity to pay Tsunade.

How large is the equipment drawdown for clanless genin/chunin/special jounin/jounin vs non-Founding Clan G/C/SJ/J vs Founding G/C/SJ/J?

It's now supplemented by the Akane Seal Bank. Are we keeping records of what demand is for explosive/storage seals per month, and breaking that down by rank/specialization?

I'm asking this because I'm trying to get a sense of the size of the "pile" so to speak of storage/explosives, and what demand is. Depending on rank/specialization. Trying to improve the Tower's policies about equipment drawdown seems like a low-hanging fruit.
We're not going to specify the exact equipment drawdowns, but the Team Akane Seal Bank multiplies the equipment available to clanless genin many times over. As a reminder, one of Asuma's conditions for the operation of the Seal Bank was that you only serve clanless genin, and that the seals given out in this way be marked not for resale. The demand is currently manageable by Shinji alone, but he works on it full-time.
 
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