We should consider pushing for this, although it's undercut by the sealing bank, which we need to run to try and preserve Akane's soul
I think this sounds like a great initiative for once Necromancy is resolved. "Team Uplift reforms feudalism" has a lot of entertaining challenges that are (unfortunately) completely overshadowed by the current sprint for the ability to kill a small number of combatants.
Pay market prices for things! It makes everything better!
Seal production, Seal development, Sealmaster training, and Seal disposal (both deliberate and incidental during combat) are known to generate dramatic externalities. The Leaf economy is correctly limiting the quantity of Seal production by nonprice social technologies. In this essay I will-
 
These ideas are cool and all but I feel like "while packing our bags in preparation for a long term mission" is not the right time to bring it up.
Yeah, yeah. Rift race. Most likely we won't have enough time to do these things. But still fun to muse about.


Seal production, Seal development, Sealmaster training, and Seal disposal (both deliberate and incidental during combat) are known to generate dramatic externalities. The Leaf economy is correctly limiting the quantity of Seal production by nonprice social technologies. In this essay I will-
Lol.

We should open a Goketsu Bank. Make loans at low interest to civvies.
Wouldn't even need to be an artificially low interest rate. Giving normal people access to credit would be huge. Think of all the businesses, houses, etc that aren't being built!
 
So if they're getting paid from Leaf/the Tower, who exactly pays net taxes? (More in taxes than they get in benefits) The farmers?
I don't remember the exact numbers, but the majority of ninja only receive something like 60% of their mission pay, the rest is being taxed. Those taxes are then distributed to the clan heads. So its a kind of informal tax where a clan ninja pays some of their earnings to their clan head, routed through the tower who presumably keeps a cut. The clan head then decides how to spend the money for the good of the clan, where usually a good portion goes right back to the clan ninja. Like "hey, I only wanted 10% of your paycheck you can have the other 30% back".

The problem is that clanless ninja have to pay the tax, but don't get that return via clan head. So the clan heads are basically getting free money they don't deserve by taxing the clanless. The exception to this are clanless Jonin. They are powerful and valuable enough that the tower wants to appease them, so they are counted as a clan of one during tax season when the tower is handing out money to the clans. Clan jonin still have to give up money to their clan head so clanless jonin usually avoid being adopted, since they're likely to receive more money by being clanless.

Yeah, yeah. Rift race. Most likely we won't have enough time to do these things. But still fun to muse about.
You misunderstand me, I just think we should bring it up after an in-game week, when things are more settled.
 
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I don't remember the exact numbers, but the majority of ninja only receive something like 60% of their mission pay, the rest is being taxed.
Wait. But when Leaf's at war, and there's a Jonin mission to do X, who's paying the bill? "Mission pay" makes it sound like a merchant or whoever is paying the Jonin for protection with Leaf getting a cut. But when Leaf is paying for missions (like during a war), where do they get the money from? Does no one get paid during war? And do most taxes come from mission pay? If a clan runs, say a bank, or a flower shop, or a restaurant, etc and makes money, is it tax free?
 
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Wait. But when Leaf's at war, and there's a Jonin mission to do X, who's paying the bill? "Mission pay" makes it sound like a merchant or whoever is paying the Jonin for protection with Leaf getting a cut. But when Leaf is paying for missions (like during a war), where do they get the money from? Does no one get paid during war? And do most taxes come from mission pay? If a clan runs, say a bank, or a flower shop, or a restaurant, etc and makes money, is it tax free?
Whoever posted the mission pays, usually the Tower. Then they take 80% in taxes
 
Wait. But when Leaf's at war, and there's a Jonin mission to do X, who's paying the bill? "Mission pay" makes it sound like a merchant or whoever is paying the Jonin for protection with Leaf getting a cut. But when Leaf is paying for missions (like during a war), where do they get the money from? Does no one get paid during war? And do most taxes come from mission pay? If a clan runs, say a bank, or a flower shop, or a restaurant, etc and makes money, is it tax free?
Like stompy said, whoever posts the mission pays. Usually merchants or whatever. But yes, there are plenty of tower posted missions, especially during a war, that the tower has to pay. I'm sure the tower is also collecting taxes from both clan-run flower shops, and civilian shoemakers, and all the trade that comes through leaf. And yes probably collecting taxes on the same missions they're paying people to do.

I imagine clan-run businesses do better because, once again, the taxes that they pay to the tower are given back to the clan head, who can reinvest it back into the business. Effectively tax-free but not really because it's really up to the clan head.
 
Yeah. Seems like the market is telling us seals are being dramatically under produced compared to how great they are. Most wars have 1:3 to 1:10 ratios for combat to logistic personal. Having every leaf ninja be supported by massive amounts of seals would be a game changer for leaf combat ability. If a single explosive tag is enough to make a difference for a genin, and a seal smith can make one in 5 minutes, then yeah, the ratio is waaaaaaaay off. We should def fix that.

Pay market prices for things! It makes everything better!
Yes, but also note that unlike modern soldiers, ninja need very little ninja logi and support to have 90% effectiveness.
Civillians can make kuni, and one sealsmith with can arm many ninja. One storage seal can keep all their field supplies, and they don't need vehicles/fuel/munitions/ect.

However while a Chunin/Jonin can fight at 90% efficacy with no explosives, an explosive tag(DC 40 AOE attack at weapon) is a HUGE jump in power for a genin.
These are the same genin who are priced out of buying seals. This is a big deal. The akane sealbank is probably having a very large impact here.



Also, while Jounin/Chunin don't need explosives, *everybody* needs skywalkers to avoid being put at a huge disadvantage. Leaf's sealsmith ranks are probably nowhere near enough to arm everyone with skywalkers, which will put us at a national disadvantage to whatever nations do rapidly expand their ranks of skywalker-capable sealsmiths.

...we should probably talk to Naruto about this.

Suggest moving to free-market seal sales(with a flat lowish ~30% tower tax), and prominently offer a sealsmith track for a screened selection of academy students. This probably has a lot of overlap with the "chakra battery" track, as sealing takes negligible chakra and has no physical fitness requirements other than a steady hand.
 
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Also, while Jounin/Chunin don't need explosives, *everybody* needs skywalkers to avoid being put at a huge disadvantage. Leaf's sealsmith ranks are probably nowhere near enough to arm everyone with skywalkers, which will put us at a national disadvantage to whatever nations do rapidly expand their ranks of skywalker-capable sealsmiths
Less true of Leaf than anywhere else. Since Jiriaya's notes are available for anyone to learn from them. That's enough to get Sealing in the 40s.
...we should probably talk to Naruto about this.

Suggest moving to free-market seal sales(with a flat lowish ~30% tower tax), and prominently offer a sealsmith track for a screened selection of academy students. This probably has a lot of overlap with the "chakra battery" track, as sealing takes negligible chakra and has no physical fitness requirements other than a steady hand
What we might do is suggest that the Tower makes reading the notes payable as an extended mission. So that anyone who wants to work on them full time still has an income for the duration. That means that more sealsmiths will be able to finish the notes and make skywalkers
 
Less true of Leaf than anywhere else. Since Jiriaya's notes are available for anyone to learn from them. That's enough to get Sealing in the 40s.

What we might do is suggest that the Tower makes reading the notes payable as an extended mission. So that anyone who wants to work on them full time still has an income for the duration. That means that more sealsmiths will be able to finish the notes and make skywalkers
You ninja-d my next post!

Jiriaya's notes can singlehandedly carry a sealsmith to the level where they can make skywalkers. And the lootboxe xp bypasses stagnation, which people working as chakra donors/seal printers will be.

Note that unlike explosives/storage scrolls/skywalkers, Jiriaya's notes aren't avaliable outside of leaf, and are a major theft risk. We'll need to be careful about where they're available, and not let dozens of people take copies home.

But with all this combined, Leaf could quickly and easily achieve national seal-production superiority.
Not only does a skywalker advantage combine well with ranged attack jutsu(fire's best niche), it also combines well with... explosive tags. Interesting.

This gets dual use out of our new chakra-donor track ninja, means leaf ninja always have plenty of skywalkers, and our genin in perticular will benefit from ample access to skywalkers and explosives.
Unlike most ways of powering up genin, giving them wildly-known seals won't weaken leaf if/when they are captured, as the trick is one of infrastructure; mass-production via free-market incentives, Jiriaya's notes, and using undervalued chakra-users.

We should put this proposal to Naruto.
 
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Oh cool, @eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped

How large is the equipment drawdown for clanless genin/chunin/special jounin/jounin vs non-Founding Clan G/C/SJ/J vs Founding G/C/SJ/J?

It's now supplemented by the Akane Seal Bank. Are we keeping records of what demand is for explosive/storage seals per month, and breaking that down by rank/specialization?

I'm asking this because I'm trying to get a sense of the size of the "pile" so to speak of storage/explosives, and what demand is. Depending on rank/specialization. Trying to improve the Tower's policies about equipment drawdown seems like a low-hanging fruit.
 
Seal smithing should be the most lucrative profession ever.
Is it not? :p

Note that characters have been shown reacting to the Gōketsu policy of "liberal seal usage & distribution to the point of near-profane profligacy" with emotions ranging from concern, to awe over the de facto wealth on display, to anger at what they interpreted as having that wealth shoved in their face - consider e.g., Team Uplift's spar with Team Kurenai, Sakura's response to Akane's seal loadout, various responses to the bowl of explosive tags by the front door, and Hazō's Chūnin exam tourney speech chucking explosives into the arena that had "gotten mixed in with his peanuts".
 
And the lootboxe xp bypasses stagnation, which people working as chakra donors/seal printers will be.
Unless they don't have a combat domain, thanks to
This gets dual use out of our new chakra-donor track ninja,
Creating a whole new demographic of "rear-echelon support spec" professional chakra users, individually pretty much non-military yet collectively essential to the effective function OF the military, seems like it could have some sort of profound political implications.
 
Jiriaya's notes can singlehandedly carry a sealsmith to the level where they can make skywalkers. And the lootboxe xp bypasses stagnation, which people working as chakra donors/seal printers will be.
Lootboxes don't bypass stagnation. It takes you longer to finish them if you're stagnated. So, for example, if you read 3 blocks of 4 XP notes at 50% stagnation you'd get 3*4*50 = 6 Sealing XP. The remaining XP isn't lost, it just takes longer to finish the notes.

Unless they don't have a combat domain, thanks to

Creating a whole new demographic of "rear-echelon support spec" professional chakra users, individually pretty much non-military yet collectively essential to the effective function OF the military, seems like it could have some sort of profound political implications.
I expect that, rather than modeling these chakra-users like ninja, they'd be modeled like civvies with a CR stat. I'm not familiar with the exact process of modeling civvies in FtD, and indeed I don't think there is a general one. But I expect that the domains aren't directly applicable.
 
Unless they don't have a combat domain
I can't really imagine what challenge would let you unstagnate the "chakra-donor" domain. Same goes for sealing if you're only ever cranking out copies of 3 known seals and never learning more or doing research.

And that's fine? It seems like what the stagnation mechanic is all about. If you only do zero-risk things well within you comfort zone, your growth as a ninja quickly plateaus. That's the whole point.

The people on this track will never be headed for special-jounin rank(at least, not without a two decades or so) they'll struggle against stagenancy to hit low-Chunin-equivalent in the doublecost skills of chakra and sealing, get just good enough to learn skywalkers, and then plateau. Then they'll have to settle for merely being fabulously wealthy from both the chakra-sales and seal sales, while safely contributing to the security of their country.
 
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More like, they'll be publicly known as skinwastes and ridiculed for it. Never getting an ounce of respect as long as they live.

Man that's depressing.
They'll still be better-respected than civilians(99% of people), and y'know alive. (remember, almost nobody officially fails the academy, they get "training accidents" instead).

Plus, publicity disrespecting them will have costs. They'll upcharge you for seals and chakra, or sell to your rivals first. And see Mari's whole talk about people respecting what they pay for.
 
I can't really imagine what challenge would let you unstagnate the "chakra-donor" domain. Same goes for sealing if you're only ever cranking out copies of 3 known seals and never learning more or doing research.
Even if they're effectively banned from combat missions or seal research due to safety concerns and concomitant travel restrictions, could be hospital mednin, or study technique hacking to develop utilitarian jutsu (for till'n'fills, or fortification, or chakra transfers that cut out the middleman), or get involved somehow with politics or the yakuza.

Edited to add: Or explore the commercial possibilities of existing seals. Given development time for skywalkers and the civilian-access-to-storage-seals bank, there's probably a lot of low-hanging fruit still there. Entrepreneurial business-management work could definitely involve overcoming challenges right out at the limit of existing ability.
 
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They'll still be better-respected than civilians(99% of people), and y'know alive. (remember, almost nobody officially fails the academy, they get "training accidents" instead).
I dunno. There's a distinct difference between the kind of baseline background disrespect you get as just a lower-caste person than the acute targeted disrespect you get as someone who offends the sensibilities of the upper caste. Like, just look at the derogatory terms we've heard of, "softfoot" vs "skinwaste". One of those sounds like a general dismissal, a vague assertion of inferiority, while the other is meant to make your skin crawl with disgust.

A chakra-donor not-ninja would be in this strange alienating social position where all the actual ninja look at them like cripples or cowards, not just inferiors but failures, while the civilians likely still see these people as someone set apart from them, a chakra-haver in a world where that's supposed to be synonymous with "ninja", making them isolated from both social groups. They'd lead a good life in an objective sense, a cushy well-paying job in Fire Country's capital city, free to spend the rest of their time on whatever they choose, but aside from the personal connections they make they probably won't be able to fit in anywhere, feel like they belong.

Even if the ninjas they deal with disguise their distaste when bargaining for chakra, it will become clear in due time that few want anything more to do with them than they have to. Even if the civilians understand that having chakra doesn't make this person a superhuman killing machine, it won't be easy to feel comfortable around them after a life where one must always exercise the utmost caution around the ninja caste. Aside from whatever points of light they can bring close and hold dear, the rest of Konoha will look quite unwelcoming indeed.
 
They'd lead a good life in an objective sense, a cushy well-paying job in Fire Country's capital city, free to spend the rest of their time on whatever they choose, but aside from the personal connections they make they probably won't be able to fit in anywhere, feel like they belong.
And they'll try to solve that problem by looking for ways to leverage whatever they do have - money, noncombat chakra use, free skill-pyramid slots from not being field-ready punch wizards, maybe a bit of personal rapport with summoners and thus international trade-network access? - toward obtaining the power, prestige, sense of belonging, whatever it is they crave. An industrial revolution scenario with sapient, mostly self-fueling munitions factories.
 
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