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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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[X] Action Plan: Not Actually a Fleshed Out Action Plan
[X] Action Plan: No, but Yes
[X] Action Plan: Yes, For Your Own Good
  • Points to make to Itachi:
    • You need all of that material, and help, to crack it? We already have a plan to open it, just need to keep working it out. What delayed us so long is the Dragons.
    • The Dragons will kill us all if we don't also figure out a way to deal with them
      • We're also making progress on that.
    • Given the trouble you're having, we're not confident you won't kill us all trying
    • Claim the bounty
    • We already wanted Pain back as well, if he can prevent or help the end of the world scenarios.
    • We want to join, because we recognise that this is the thing to do.
    • But the cost of joining is much too high as-is. Leaf will absolutely destroy the rest of our clan, for one. This may heavily stunt our training and growth, for two. We synergise with our Clan for personal development and are making leaps and bounds through that. Can't simply throw it all down the drain. We need and want safety for us, them, Leaf, and the world. And we can make it happen. All we really need is to keep our Scroll and exchange with our Clan somewhat, but you can monitor that we're not using it to feed intel about you or whatever.
    • We can tell Tsunade that we know what you're doing, and we're confident that trying to stop you would spell disaster, but our expertise will be necessary so you don't end the world.
  • Points to make to Tsunade:
    • Sending us off is temporary
    • We will come back, and obviously will some degree of intel. We're not betraying Leaf and going missing, nor do we want to immediately annihilate the single thread keeping world peace -and thus the safety of Leaf, "her birthright"- together.
    • We know what they're doing, it is crazy dangerous, and we have knowledge that can help stop it being a catastrophic failure of a "all sealmasters are running away, so try to keep up" scale. Responsibly guiding ninja as strong as them is the safest way for the world. Ask Aburame if we're good, he apparently had words after giving us the special jōnin exam.
    • Once we went to her, we're obviously leaving it to her judgment. But we strongly recommend that she let us prevent ridiculous levels of disaster. We're confident that we can make this work to everyone's advantage, on a survival level as well as on a positive takeaway for everyone. If we "get away" with our Scroll, we can keep providing Leaf with seals as if we were still stationed in, and perform sealing-style missions for Leaf such as the last one Asuma gave us, obviously avoiding Leaf secrets that she doesn't want Akatsuki to be able to spy.
  • Overarching idea: we can make this work for everyone. We're prepared to make concessions. We're not giving up on the world, our family, or "going pretty damn far" for those we care about, which includes our Clan and all of Leaf.
    • Try to avoid talking about Hidan.
      • If compelled, try to be a bit of a politician. Hazō can't kill him, and is forced to go along if interacting, but both his thinking and his actions were (are) obviously wrong.
(Word count: 547)
Maybe I am a bit too much of an idealist, but I think we can do it. Feedback much appreciated if you think I'm wrong about something or a detail needs tweaking.
Full disclosure I'm extremely excited at the prospect of saying "we joined Akatsuki to save the world," whereas "we were given the opportunity to participate in something even greater but didn't," while it has obvious advantages, doesn't sound as satisfying to me. Especially if pursuing the goals we've been focused on for so long gets literally all of Akatsuki against us. Wrangling all of Leaf to not fight a losing battle, all the while trying to open a secondary rift from scratch faster than Sasori can inflate the existing one, would be very Marked for Politics, which has its good points... but I think we'll extremely fail at that. It's the easier option for immediate survival, but it could well be the ungodly hard option for reaching any of our objectives. Except Dragons, maybe. If Pain can annihilate Dragons (and with ninjutsu instead of sealing), the Seventh Path will love us.
 
acidshill said:
[X] Action Plan: Politely Decline
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I propose adding a bit more meat to the plan. Just basic unoffensive stuff like also briefing Mari and maybe Kei and even Ami.
Maybe we can even try getting away with briefing them first (or at least Mari who is the easiest to reach) and letting them sanity check our briefing to Tsunade. With an emphasis on try and without being too insistent. Just going to our compound to, among other things, check what seals Itachi stole as if that were of primary importance, unless and until someone tells us to go to Tsunade ASAP.

We could also add briefing our family on lithosealing, including Kagome.

Essentially I'd like you to at the following up front:
  • Go check what notes Itachi took from the compound. Do that until interrupted and told to officially report.
    • While there, debrief with Mari.
    • Include Kei/Snowflake/Noburi if present.
    • Sanity checks the Tsunade debrief.
And the following at the end:
  • Reveal lithosealing to Team Uplift.

What do you think?
 
FaintlySorcerous said:
[X] Action Plan: No, but Yes
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I honestly like this plan more only because it has courage instead of seeming like a bunch of missteps, even if I ascribe it a high likelihood of leading to a quick death. So...

[X] Action Plan: No, but Yes

But this is mostly strategic voting on my part. I have multiple issues with the plan. Some of them are less about the general approach and more about certain details, so I'll go into those:
  • "(minus the starred section)"
    • I don't think there is such a section in the current version of your plan.
  • "Brief Tsunade and Ami - the Dragons, the Rift, what Itachi's said, everything."
    • "Everything" is too broad. That may well include lithosealing or Ami's willingness to do a treason or who knows what else. It also includes the threats we just told Itachi about. Like how the Rift might be really easy to close even after opened. Tsunade might just go "that's perfect then" and play hardball.
  • "Turning the Rift into the site of another bloody, world-destroying war is the last thing anyone needs and hopefully not something the Akatsuki want, either."
    • This is phrases like a threat. We should really find more conciliatory wording. This goes for most of the plan IMO, but this one is one of the more egregious sections.
    • To elaborate, Akatsuki has Leaf over the barrel. Itachi said that they are sparing Leaf not due to the risk of casualties on their side, but due to Itachi's sentimental attachments and maybe due to how it would destabilize the EN. Even if part of that is bluster, he can't go back on it in front of Tsunade.
  • "So: short of murdering us they can't guarantee Leaf won't close or open the Rift and even that wouldn't dissuade Orochimaru."
    • Maybe add the part from Buggy's plan where he lists the kinds of people we told about necromancy. Just to make murdering Hazō seem a little less of a perfect solution.
  • "Anyone revived must swear allegiance to AMITY - above their nation, above their personal interests, above everything. Pain included. Not the Akatsuki, but AMITY, the council of the heads of nations for the purpose of ensuring peace. Anyone who doesn't make this oath to the satisfaction of every member state isn't allowed back. Pain included."
    • This whole section is the most egregious part to me. The one that is the most likely to doom the whole plan by making Itachi not only disagree with us (or agree with us that he has to kill Hazō to prevent problems to his plans), but to make him outright enraged. The oath you propose is not just utterly useless because making people with superpowers swear loyalty to an organization above even their personal interest at gunpoint is, well, completely useless (remember these are lying cheating ninja and not Otters), it is also insulting to propose to someone who thinks they have the upper hand and has made this whole thing their current top priority in life. It is especially insulting to repeatedly state that this also should apply to Saint Nagato.
    • Beyond being pointless and insulting, I don't even think it would be a good idea if it were to work. AMITY is decent compared to what was before, but as a permanent and undefeatable fixture it makes for a less than ideal world government. It's a bunch of dictators from historically powerful city-states that get regionally elected through a mix of might makes right and upper nobility only elections. It is also not an internally democratic organization. They have a couple of rules they all abide to, primarily the enforcement of peace, but otherwise they don't vote to add or change rules. They may well function similar to the EU Council or the UN Security Council, with each nation of note having veto powers. All in all, not something that should have the unquestioning loyalty of the most powerful Essies of the world. Loyalty above "everything" also includes loyalty above reason, above compassion, above mercy, above progress, above the prevention of existential threats that others don't see. Akatsuki is Akatsuki because they think such loyalty is shit. It's literally how they came to be as an organization. And having such loyalty to six bickering Kage (if one includes Pain as Rain/Akatsuki Kage) instead of one is not much better.
    • If the Rift becomes an AMITY project as initially negotiated by Itachi, Ami and Tsunade, I don't see why we should make any final demands like this in the first place, or even bring it up at all.
  • "If you need to sell Tsunade on this, Itachi, retract all demands except Kisame's - we need that for the Dragons and Great Seal. Work with us. Make this happen. Do it the hard way."
    • I'd cut this whole section. It pretty much is just Hazō trying to take advantage of Itachi's perceived weakness (which I don't think is actually there) to grasp beyond his means. If Itachi thinks he can persuade Tsunade with additional concessions he is smart enough to think of that himself. Also, Itachi literally doesn't have the authority to do that. Akatsuki doesn't currently have a leader and these are concessions demanded by others who are not currently here. Others who may well care much less about world peace. Others like Hidan.

Ah well, despite these major flaws it seems like a fun way to die, while the winning plan seems like it would lead to an unfun and frustrating chapter to read.
 
Adhoc vote count started by RandomOTP on Oct 13, 2023 at 8:45 AM, finished with 230 posts and 39 votes.
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Status of the current voting cycle.
 
@FaintlySorcerous just to make it more clear:

Do you think Hazō should ever be loyal above everything to AMITY? Even if AMITY is very likely not onboard with civilian Uplift? If not, why do you want people like Pain and Akane to be? Or for that matter Jiraiya, who after his resurrection would be very likely to take over as Gokētsu Clan Head?
 
Buggy said:
First, do we have permission to invite Ami? Ami is a third party who is trusted by both of us, and a world-class expert at finding third options in tricky political situations. We strongly believe that this situation would be better resolved with her help.
  • Ami is read in on the Necromancy project, and originally suggested that we revive Pain to assist with world peace, with all the treason that implies. She is on-board and OPSEC-safe.
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Rafin said:
Revealing Ami's treasonous tendencies to Itachi is very much a dick move. We are unilaterally risking her life in multiple ways
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As Rafin pointed out, we shouldn't throw Ami under the bus this hard, no idea how to modify, but we need to change it
 
[x] I Hits A Bits

You know what? If I am going to approval suicidal plans over the currently winning one then I have no reason not to vote for this as well.

Especially since it has one major thing going for it: Eaglejarl will have lots of fun writing it. And, given that this whole story is partially his hobby and beloved creation, I can even have a little faith that eaglejarl expects this to lead to continued fun instead of only leading to a single fun chapter followed by an epilogue.

Ipsos Custodes said:
Hidan technically killed Orochimaru's husband.
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I don't see it. How is Asuma part of that polycule?
 
Noumero said:
That's honestly a pretty horrible idea.
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SYSTEM: Ding! Wisdom +1! For demonstrating excellent social awareness and consequence-modeling, your stats have increased!

Pharos said:
[X] Action Plan: I Am Once Again Asking For Your Diplomatic Support
[X] Action Plan: Not Actually a Fleshed Out Action Plan

It's so frustrating trying to find the contents of plans. I'm on mobile and copying and searching for the name of each plan is too much for me. I give up. I voted.
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*Sympathy* Fortunately, there is a solution!
If you go to the top of the page you'll see a dropdown labeled "Thread Tools". Open that, click on Vote Tally. It'll show you what plans were out there as of the latest tally, and who had voted for them. Click the first name on the list of voters and it will take you to the plan. (Or do what I do and open each in a tab.)

faflec said:
Yes, I do. I've been voting Armageddon Initiative (and variants) for years and barely anybody bit.

But now eaglejarl posts up a plan and suddenly everyone's all up in that shit.

stinking stinkers
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I think it's because people actually read your votes with their brains switched *on*.


Seriously? How is my plan even in the running, much less a serious contestant???
 
[X] ABSOLUTELY DO NOT 'I Hits A Bits'

Do we negative plan voting in here?
faflec said:
We do not, the closest equivalent is to vote all the other plans.
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*grumbles*
But I don't like the top plan eitherrrrrrrr :sad:

[X] Action Plan: Politely Decline

[-] I Hits A Bits Edited
-Do the badass speech without being so insulting about it. No I don't know how it works exactly, it's your speech, I'm sure you can remove a couple instances of calling people stupid somewhere.

^ An alternative for the slightly less suicidal that nobody will vote for

Edit 2: Editing boogaloo. Unvoted and/or voted based on future recommendations.
 
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Alright, since that's getting some very thrillingly real traction, lemme do some bare minimum of, like, serious critique...
eaglejarl said:
Collect Mari, Naruto, Shikamaru, Kei, Noburi, Kagome. Take them to Tsunade's office and:
  • Tell the story of EM from start to finish so that they know why Asuma died
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I question the necessity of telling Noburi and Kagome about the EM. All the rest of the plan consists of unhingedly bold moves, but they're high-reward as well as high-risk (and in ways where the highness of reward is inextricably tied to the unhingedness). It's suicidal, but I see the intent. This, though... just seems to be pissing off Leaf's higher-ups for no reason?

Far be it from me to nitpick a divine plan; if there's a higher vision behind this, by all means let it remain unmarred by these foolish mortal concerns. But, like, yeah. Floating that.
 
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