- Location
- USA
Hazou is rusty in economics, as it has been over a year since he caused an economic disaster.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard open voting
- Location
- Pacific standard
He could also choose to be taken out by the rune, whatever that would mean in context ^_^
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
If we're worried about not finishing sealing projects fast enough we should probably try to rush to get We'll Do It Live! That should let us finish up a Jiraiya level seal in around 4 cycles
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I know you're kidding, but would this still be a social role, just more Merchant-leaning? (Merchant of death maybe...)
He's been hashing deals with the Hyuuga, the Aburame, and the Tower in recent history for example
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I want to repost some points that were raised on Discord:
- Obviously if the QMs want us to try this new mechanic out, we're willing to give it a good faith effort. "The mechanics exist to represent the narrative" has always been a thing.
- More and more heavily-developed rulesets that are designed to force risky behaviors are like trying to solve the AI alignment problem by putting increasingly complicated rules the AI has to follow. It's a losing game, it's not solving the underlying problem, and the actual result is going to be increasingly complicated subversions of the rules.
- Just look at the laws of any modern country. They're a spaghetti dinner of stipulations for specific ways that you're not allowed to be a dick, because just asking the entire nation to "not be a dick" doesn't work. That's where we seem to be headed.
- But we don't need to, because asking people not to be dicks can and does work here.
- Examples of how this could be presented...
- "Hazou has been working on trivial-for-him seals for a while lately, and it's getting pretty monotonous. He would like to do some higher-level sealing that actually challenges his Sealing knowledge." and then reflect that in the narrative (both the tedium before, and the joy and doing something intellectually demanding).
- "Hazou has spent a lot of time Sealing and making social waves. He's getting a little restless, and wants to go on a challenging combat mission to stretch his legs." and then reflect that in the narrative (both the wanderlust before, and the joy and leaving the walls of the village/physical exertion).
- "Asuma has reports of a hitherto-unknown Sealing Doom Fortress going haywire in Fire Country's backwoods, and he wants you to investigate. You have [restrictions/permissions/parameters]."
- Examples of how this could be presented...
- Even so, this doesn't combat the underlying reasons of why we tend to lighthouse. We talked about going on the Squirrel Scroll for IRL months but were tangled up in running between fires. Most recently, we've been...
- Sprinting to ES 50 because we thought that would unlock 3D Sealing (but that's a whole separate beast that I.V. has some rather eloquent posts on).
- And then making various trade deals with Asuma/Hinata in order to safely leverage ES50 to enrich Leaf and heal our Clan's Financial Medium Consequence.
- Accelerating our progress on Minato Seals (to the point where four players have precommited to voting for nearly any plan that includes it),
- Working on the Conclave,
- Scrambling to figure out how to save Isan,
- Akane dying and the political/interpersonal consequences thereof,
- EM Nuke and the political/interpersonal fallout thereof,
- And more.
- Sprinting to ES 50 because we thought that would unlock 3D Sealing (but that's a whole separate beast that I.V. has some rather eloquent posts on).
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- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
Is this what you're talking about?
If so... well, yup. Even if we keep getting burned, as long as Earthshaping looks like our best bet we have no choice but to pursue it. Personally, here's hoping we don't need to level it any further and can unlock runes with the doping technique.
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
This was your post that I was thinking about, but I've edited the megapost to include links to both, since the one you linked also gets to a point that I've been feeling.
- Location
- Pacific standard
@Noumero @Inferno Vulpix @RandomOTP
Put your trust in me, for a scene. We can try without locking in the ES chakra and see what Hazōpilot thinks. The opportunity cost is very low, just an hour or so of Hazō's time, and potentially 1 xp.
If it would help if I wrote the previous process out in as few words as possible to put in the plan itself I can do that, but I think linking to a full description of the process could work as well. I'll head back to my previous post and make it safer in a moment here.
@Velorien @Paperclipped @eaglejarl do any of you have any preferences for formatting testing this idea?
Put your trust in me, for a scene. We can try without locking in the ES chakra and see what Hazōpilot thinks. The opportunity cost is very low, just an hour or so of Hazō's time, and potentially 1 xp.
If it would help if I wrote the previous process out in as few words as possible to put in the plan itself I can do that, but I think linking to a full description of the process could work as well. I'll head back to my previous post and make it safer in a moment here.
@Velorien @Paperclipped @eaglejarl do any of you have any preferences for formatting testing this idea?
I haven't been following the thread extremely closely, but did this get clarified at any point?
Dead, I think that's pretty clear.
- Location
- Pacific standard
Hmmm I don't think so, jutsu backlash isn't nearly as dangerous as sealing backlash. I bet it'd just permanently scar our chakra coils. Not too bad.
Civilians have good lives, right?
Right?
I don't think it's entirely accurate to present the new mechanics as existing solely to encourage players to do different things- as the mechanics post noted, they also explain why for example Kakuzu isn't a god after a hundred years of frequent strife when a few years of freuqent strife have made genin Hazo into current Hazo. Plus, realism. I for one am happy to have it made a certainty that random S-rankers and other massive threats are not omnipotent, and if it also incentivizes us to do different things then that's a useful side effect.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
I'm definitely on board with testing the doping strategy at our earliest possible convenience. Maybe not this update because we've already had Velorien out and say that it's too big to be done in one plan and has a very short time horizon where we do a bunch of socials in rapidfire sequence, but heck I'd be willing to do this before we reconvene with Kagome to figure out what else we need to research before opening the rift.
- Location
- Pacific standard
Okay. I'm going to continue being obnoxious about this because I don't want us to get complacent and forget, but I'll chill until the next voting cycle lol.
Final edit on the subject: I personally prefer the name charming for 3d seals so Hazō can show off his charms and do a lot of charming. My partner suggested Iwameikō for a master artificer of rocks, with the name of the discipline being Keijōiwa After much brainstorming and trying to translate things that didn't translate lol
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[x] Action Plan: Due Diligence w/o Shikamaru
I have slight preference against including Shikamaru. The Hivemind is very divided over his potential involvement in Akane's death, which sounds to me like we shouldn't provide ammunition to someone who might kill us next...unless Shika's substantially improve the plan, or we trap the ammunition. Yeah, I wish we could meaningfully test Shikamaru. But then, Kakuzu and Hidan are now hunting for Akane's murderers, so we should have more information soonish?
I have slight preference against including Shikamaru. The Hivemind is very divided over his potential involvement in Akane's death, which sounds to me like we shouldn't provide ammunition to someone who might kill us next...unless Shika's substantially improve the plan, or we trap the ammunition. Yeah, I wish we could meaningfully test Shikamaru. But then, Kakuzu and Hidan are now hunting for Akane's murderers, so we should have more information soonish?
Err... that does sounds important? We don't have to release the notes etc... immediately. We probably should talk off-screen to our sanity council, making sure this is actually not a bad idea.
Do we have a list of previous hypotheses and results of experimentation? If there are other strategies we could test, we might as well include them in the future plan.
Noumero
Omit Needless Words
That's a good point. I'll fork the plan with a few changes and Shikamaru replaced with Ami. I'll still endorse both plans.
Good catch, will add.
I think the plan is already doing that? It's supposed to, at least.
I expect that to make Shikamaru and Kei even less likely to share anything they know.
@Inferno Vulpix outlined a large chunk of my reasoning here: this makes Shikamaru less likely to kill us, this specific situation may force him to be open. In addition:
- I expect Kei to want to double-check with Shikamaru anyway, or actually be moreconservative about Forbidding the Lore if she can't coordinate with him. (See the Yuno thing.)
- Note that she probably doesn't suspect Shikamaru, only Asuma, so she isn't any more likely to go rogue against him here than she was before.
- Why would we want to stop interacting with Shikamaru based on our suspicions, instead of interacting with him more in an attempt to suss him out? I want to get an idea of where his head's at these days. Mari's here partly for that, as well.
Noted, I'll remove this line specifically.
That's what the Hierophant line is about.
Will do.
As @Inferno Vulpix pointed out, doing it this cycle is probably not a good idea. Ping me next cycle and I'll mirror your votes for this?
Edit: Updated the plan.
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There is no line about the Hierophant in the Hidan section. It's not clear you plan to ask both the Thinker meeting and Hidan about the Five. If you want to ask Hidan about the Five, IMO you need to make that clear, this plan has a lot of detail and Vel probably isn't going to read the fine print. Or indeed, do a close reading at all, he's basically said as much already.
In addition, asking about the Hierophant is not the same as asking about Hidan's opinion of the Five. Or his knowlege of the Five, maybe he only sees Tama's relationship with Jashin as tangentially related to her membership in the Five, and their descended clans.
EDIT: I should have made this clear, IMO asking Shikamaru about the Five is a dead end. He's not sharing. It is the antithesis of what he stands for to share.
Noumero
Omit Needless Words
As a potentially controversial choice, I'm also inviting Kagome in this fork. I don't think it'd make Kei and Ami much more tight-lipped...? And he may have relevant insight and we've wanted to include him more (and I really want to see him and Ami discuss Forbidden Lore).
[x] Action Plan: Due Diligence w/o Shikamaru BUT w/ Ami AND Kagome
Word count: <300.
@Velorien, you'd said links are helpful, so I'd made every word in "everything Hidan said about Jashin" a link to a chapter in which Hidan said a lot of things about Jashin. That's intended for your convenience, it doesn't imply an expectation that you'll comb through these chapters line-by-line and that I'll complain if you miss some tidbit.
[x] Action Plan: Due Diligence w/o Shikamaru BUT w/ Ami AND Kagome
Word count: <300.
- Meeting: Kei, Ami, Mari, Kagome.
- Topics: Jashin and Akatsuki.
- Preparations:
- Refresh Mari on your Thinker-conspiracy inferences.
- Review the ANBU transcript of your Hidan conversations. Anything you don't remember?
- Request the extracted Isan lore. Anything Jashin-related?
- Keep a live transcript. Periodically review it.
- Pool ~all relevant knowledge on Jashin. He wasn't known to Shikamaru, and unknown threats of this scale are apocalypticallyconcerning (see: Dragons). We need to investigate.
- Priority: Your Orochimaru Q&A. You followed a strict list, then "forgot" about Jashin, apparently repeating yourself.
- An antimeme?
- Everything Hidan said about Jashin. Balance, conviction, death and birth, quotas, dreams...
- Particulars:
- Some alleged interest in humanity's prosperity and non-extinction.
- "'They' cut out Jashin's tongue."
- Jashin making the Sage bleed.
- Jashin's symbol. Recognizable?
- Events at O'uzu and Bakuchioka.
- Jashin's powers. Probability-manipulation?
- Hidan's powers/blessings.
- Potential Hierophant connection.
- Relation to "summoning Death"?
- Omit your afterlife-viewing and Scroll-locating experiments.
- Priority: Your Orochimaru Q&A. You followed a strict list, then "forgot" about Jashin, apparently repeating yourself.
- Do they know anything more?
- Prepare for a follow-up Hidan meeting.
- What are the highest-priority questions to ask? How should we approach him?
- Ami, Mari: Distracting Hidan from the rift isn't of much value: he isn't a researcher. However, being in his good graces gives you a semi-trusted channel to the rest of Akatsuki. Any ideas on what distracting information we may seed it with?
- Meet Hidan (with Asuma's permission). Express interest in finally learning theology.
- Follow the prepared questionnaire, plus:
- What's Jashin's ideal world?
- How's Jashin connected to the Five? What are they, in His view? You're only familiar with... biased perspectives.
- (Conceal this from everyone but Mari.)
- Justifications (if needed):
- Clearly your insight's useful.
- If you start a Jashinism branch, you'll need to know what to preach.
- Follow the prepared questionnaire, plus:
@Velorien, you'd said links are helpful, so I'd made every word in "everything Hidan said about Jashin" a link to a chapter in which Hidan said a lot of things about Jashin. That's intended for your convenience, it doesn't imply an expectation that you'll comb through these chapters line-by-line and that I'll complain if you miss some tidbit.
Does this work for you?
I don't want to directly ask "what are the Five?". Oro decided to be difficult when we asked him that, basically told us to go ask Kei. Better pretend we already know and optimize the inquiry so that it's easy to fill in the blanks.
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I dearly love Kagome and value his input, but having him at this meeting is madness. Dude has been ranting about he's NOT working on Minato seals for months. If we bring him he'll be telling everyone who looks at him that Hazou is NOT a Jashinist. Which is........not a good plan given Hazou's recent appearances alongside Hidan.
Yeah but Oro is an asshole and Hidan is a cool guy. I think that if he expresses confusion about our close relationship with Kei just say that she was cut off from her clan at a young age and doesn't know much (all true by the way!), we're not close with Shikamaru and he isn't the sharing type.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
He did also mention Hazou's fiance though, and unlike Kei, Ami was not kicked out early. In fact as a jonin she likely knows most of the sauce if not all of it
Counterpoint, he's met Ami and he knows that asking her about the Five will get the Ami.React and no actionable fucking information. We just want the deets unbiased by the Thinker Clans self-aggrandizing bullshit.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
"Ask your fiance."
"But she's annoying."
"Facts, my nephew, facts. I recommend trying to scare it out of her."
Noumero
Omit Needless Words
I'll just make another fork and let votes fall where Jashin wills.
[x] Action Plan: Due Diligence w/o Shikamaru BUT w/ Ami
Word count: <300.
Edit: Changed that line to:
[x] Action Plan: Due Diligence w/o Shikamaru BUT w/ Ami
Word count: <300.
- Meeting: Kei, Ami, Mari.
- Topics: Jashin and Akatsuki.
- Preparations:
- Refresh Mari on your Thinker-conspiracy inferences.
- Review the ANBU transcript of your Hidan conversations. Anything you don't remember?
- Request the extracted Isan lore. Anything Jashin-related?
- Keep a live transcript. Periodically review it.
- Pool ~all relevant knowledge on Jashin. He wasn't known to Shikamaru, and unknown threats of this scale are apocalyptically concerning (see: Dragons). We need to investigate.
- Priority: Your Orochimaru Q&A. You followed a strict list, then "forgot" about Jashin, apparently repeating yourself.
- An antimeme?
- Everything Hidan said about Jashin. Balance, conviction, death and birth, quotas, dreams...
- Particulars:
- Some alleged interest in humanity's prosperity and non-extinction.
- "'They' cut out Jashin's tongue."
- Jashin making the Sage bleed.
- Jashin's symbol. Recognizable?
- Events at O'uzu and Bakuchioka.
- Jashin's powers. Probability-manipulation?
- Hidan's powers/blessings.
- Potential Hierophant connection.
- Relation to "summoning Death"?
- Omit your afterlife-viewing and Scroll-locating experiments.
- Priority: Your Orochimaru Q&A. You followed a strict list, then "forgot" about Jashin, apparently repeating yourself.
- Do they know anything more?
- Prepare for a follow-up Hidan meeting.
- What are the highest-priority questions to ask? How should we approach him?
- Ami, Mari: Distracting Hidan from the rift isn't of much value: he isn't a researcher. However, being in his good graces gives you a semi-trusted channel to the rest of Akatsuki. Any ideas on what distracting information we may seed it with?
- Meet Hidan (with Asuma's permission). Express interest in finally learning theology.
- Follow the prepared questionnaire, plus:
- What's Jashin's ideal world?
- How's Jashin connected to the Five? What are they, in His view? You're only familiar with... biased perspectives.
- (Conceal this from everyone but Mari.)
- Justifications (if needed):
- Clearly your insight's useful.
- If you start a Jashinism branch, you'll need to know what to preach.
- Follow the prepared questionnaire, plus:
I'll consider it.
Edit: Changed that line to:
- How's Jashin connected to the Five? What are they, in His view? You're only familiar with... biased perspectives.
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Intimidation:5
RIP
[x] Action Plan: Due Diligence w/o Shikamaru BUT w/ Ami