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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Roomba said:
Officially blame the attack on Akatsuki, while thanking Rock for their assistance
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Woah uh, I'm still looking over the plan but do you really want to kick that hornet's nest? Couldn't you just say it was a regular earthquake? Or hell does Leaf even need to declare what happened, couldn't you just say it's still under investigation while we take care of the Rock's advance force on Fire soil?
 
Shadowwarp said:
Woah uh, I'm still looking over the plan but do you really want to kick that hornet's nest? Couldn't you just say it was a regular earthquake? Or hell does Leaf even need to declare what happened, couldn't you just say it's still under investigation while we take care of the Rock's advance force on Fire soil?
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Yep. This is a high value play and it needs some serious force to overcome the villages' inertia. To begin with, the most difficult thing is getting all the Kage together. The threat of S-rank terrorists busting up their village is one of the few things I can think of capable of forcing them to act.
 
put together something to convince both you guys and the Leaf Council that Mari's plan is a bad idea. a fair bit is summarizing together points mentioned in the past.

[x] Action Plan: Cooperative Negotiations
motion Mari over. tell her the plan. have her convey it or for psychological effect (and with her permission) convey it yourself using your naive idealism
Was it really Rock that did it? No one was acting like they would attack anytime soon before the attack. Everyone was furthering long term goals. Hiashi using the scroll as a carrot instead of immediately increase Leaf's combat strength. Him making all those deals with clans to improve their long-term future instead of dealing with immediate threats. If Rock did it why didn't they attack immediately? What if Akatsuki attacked us? Perhaps we should reexamine our beliefs.
For the first time in a long time there is goodwill between the villages, when we went to attack Akatsuki. <point at person who fought in battle of the gods>. Don't you remember fighting with <insert rock ninja name>. For the past few centuries civilization has been declining (who did we give this speech to already? if they've already heard it maybe not need to repeat) with humanity attacking each other. <point at random clan head> Do you want your descendants to eventually be killed from chakra beasts when by chance there are no ninja in a generation. Even in the near present, Leaf is especially vulnerable to the status quo of fighting and distrust due to its diminished military strength.
If renting land to Rock does not make us seem weak to other nations, why not do it without sabotage? We can't consume as many food/luxury items with our diminished population so we aren't even making good use of that land. It could cement Rock as a strong ally to Leaf, to defend against other nations thinking of extorting us.
We could lose the support of Tsunade, who once said plagues have no borders. How would she react to us deliberately spreading plagues?
Even if the plan succeeds and Rock retreats, they still have no land. They will take it one way or another, so we would only push our conflict with Rock to the future. If they ever discover our sabotage the war faction in Rock would completely overtake the peace faction, and any restraint they are currently showing would be removed. And we do not have the strength to defeat Rock.
We should engage in cooperative negotiations. Tell the Rock nin we are grateful for their help and remember the camaraderie displayed against Akatsuki. We realize their need for land and food and would be glad to help them. But we are worried about displaying weaknesses to other nations. Could we rent the land to them instead at low rates? What is it they want from land actually? If luxury goods we could skip the middle man and offer trade deals. We offer goods and they offer ninja manpower. We could offer them pangolin services to reduce their chakra beasts and increase their food (tell Council about the pangolin hunting idea). We could tell them our land clearing ideas to make the cost of food virtually free. Do they have ideas for how we can mutually help each other without other nations viewing Leaf as weak?
 
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There's no way I'll be able to make a plan, but things I'd like to see in a plan are:

1) Thanking Mari and Keiko. Mari has been working herself hard for us, and gave up who she was, and has just gotten us two wins that make us rich. Keiko (believed she) betrayed her sister, the person she loves most, to get us the help she thought we needed. An expression of gratitude might go a long way.

2) Either Chakra farm wrangling, or guest teacher at the school's first day. Both could be fun to write, both are like herding Chakra-kittens (maybe literally). Both advance large projects we're working on.

3) Talking about adoption. Meeting the two we haven't met would be a good idea, no decisions before that.

(Though, personally, my vote would be to adopt the shy one. She seems to have a lot of potential in multiple different directions. She'll need more hands-on help to improve, which makes more sense to adopt rather than just have as a retainer. She's a great proof of concept: hey, look how great we are with our adoptees, helping them improve! Goketsu really are the best. And not being a problem child is sadly important to us right now. Though, I 100% think we should help the technique creator to the best of our abilities with her problems and try to keep her as a retainer, since she'll be likely to stick around until next year if we're there for her now.)

Anyone who has 2/3 of these, ping me and I'll vote for it. First to have 3/3 gets my exclusive vote (barring fundamental plan disagreements).
 
Roomba said:
Yep. This is a high value play and it needs some serious force to overcome the villages' inertia. To begin with, the most difficult thing is getting all the Kage together. The threat of S-rank terrorists busting up their village is one of the few things I can think of capable of forcing them to act.
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But Rock would know that's bs and assume Leaf is either stupid or as weak as they were hoping. Why would they go along with any of it if it proves to them that they can take Fire's land and know that Leaf won't do a thing about it? If anything it shows way more weakness than Mari's plan to let them rent the land in gratitude while having the wild life make living on the land hell.
 
[X] Dreaming of a Peaceful World
Shadowwarp said:
But Rock would know that's bs and assume Leaf is either stupid or as weak as they were hoping. Why would they go along with any of it if it proves to them that they can take Fire's land and know that Leaf won't do a thing about it? If anything it shows way more weakness than Mari's plan to let them rent the land in gratitude while having the wild life make living on the land hell.
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If I understand correctly, @Roomba's plan is supposed to be used in conjunction with Mari's, not instead of it.
 
Shadowwarp said:
But Rock would know that's bs and assume Leaf is either stupid or as weak as they were hoping. Why would they go along with any of it if it proves to them that they can take Fire's land and know that Leaf won't do a thing about it? If anything it shows way more weakness than Mari's plan to let them rent the land in gratitude while having the wild life make living on the land hell.
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It's not supposed to be an alternative. We should do the rent plan regardless, I think it's a good idea. The reason I think Rock would go along is that they've put significant effort and resources into painting themselves as Leaf's benevolent neighbors. Refusing to attend after Leaf publicly thanks them for it would be a complete abandonment of that strategy. Furthermore, one of the effects of publicly blaming Akatsuki for the attack is that anyone who doesn't attend the conference comes under suspicion of collaborating with them.

In essence, what we're saying to Rock is: "We're going to give you the option of avoiding all responsibility for the attack. You need to attend for that to happen, though. Otherwise, we're going to get all the other villages together and pointedly discuss how we should collectively deal with Akatsuki and their allies."

And in any case, I think they'll attend regardless if their long-term strategy is what Mari hypothesized. You can't achieve cultural or political domination by isolating yourself from the rest of the world.
 
Guys I think it's time to send that offer to the Dog clan through Keiko, same offer we gave the Snakes. The Dog Scroll is a big game changer and winning it would net the Goketsu a ton of power.

If they refuse then that's that, but if they agree we should tell Asuma that they'll only accept Goketsu and to offer to support the village in ways that help him justify giving it to us and not blindside him when it happens.

Blindsiding Hiashi didn't matter, he already despised us. Asuma on the other hand is neutral to us and so informing him is a goodway to start things off with our new hokage in a positive light.
 
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Noumero said:
[X] Dreaming of a Peaceful World

If I understand correctly, @Roomba's plan is supposed to be used in conjunction with Mari's, not instead of it.
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Roomba said:
It's not supposed to be an alternative. We should do the rent plan regardless, I think it's a good idea. The reason I think Rock would go along is that they've put significant effort and resources into painting themselves as Leaf's benevolent neighbors. Refusing to attend after Leaf publicly thanks them for it would be a complete abandonment of that strategy. Furthermore, one of the effects of publicly blaming Akatsuki for the attack is that anyone who doesn't attend the conference comes under suspicion of collaborating with them.

In essence, what we're saying to Rock is: "We're going to give you the option of avoiding all responsibility for the attack. You need to attend for that to happen, though. Otherwise, we're going to get all the other villages together and pointedly discuss how we should collectively deal with Akatsuki and their allies."

And in any case, I think they'll attend regardless if their long-term strategy is what Mari hypothesized. You can't achieve cultural or political domination by isolating yourself from the rest of the world.
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Ah I see, that's different. Still I'm not sure how wise it would be potentially provoke the akatsuki like that. At this point I'm honestly not sure we could win even if every village united in arms.
 
Shadowwarp said:
Guys I think it's tine to send that offer to the Dog clan through Keiko, same offerwe gave the Snakes. The Dog Scroll is a big game changer and winning it would net the Goketsu a ton of power.

If they refuse then that's that, but if they agree we should tell Asuma that they'll only accept Goketsu and to offer to support the village in ways that help him justify giving it to us and not blindside him when it happens.

Blindsiding Hiashi didn't matter, he already despised us. Asuma on the other hand is neutral to us and so informing him is a goodway to start things off with our new hokage in a positive light.
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Agreed.
 
How do we feel about... unleashing Oro on our enemies? "If they're an enemy combatant they're a potential test subject. Go gettum tiger"

Immoral af obviously, but if it can be steered towards uplift...?
 
Personally I don't have any objections to Mari's plan. It seems sound, if terrifying, but there's no laws against it.

Though if the Swamp of Death is being involved in this, it might be a good idea for at least one of the Goketsu who lived there for a while to go and give their experience with the place. Kind of hard to say who, given all four of them are extremely busy...
 
eaglejarl said:
"First, there's the one and only Yamamoto Haru. He almost got cut based on attitude problems, but everything else is so strong that I couldn't justify it.
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Could we really trust him? And can we spare Mari for the (very long) time it would take to break this idiot of his bigotry? Sure, it's possible, but is it really feasible? Mari would be better off doing other things with that time. Not to mention it might make her soul hurt to manipulate and toy with someone so... young. Remember, she's laying all the moral weight on Hazou's shoulders, not her own. That's what's allowing her to act this way... or at least it was at the start. What if Mari decides that twisting the heart and mind of someone so young and (relatively) innocent is where she draws the line? She's not exactly... stable right now.

My vote is Drunk Jutsu Woman. Have Mari helping people instead of hurting. She's not taking care of her own soul right now. We are. We need to be mindful of that.
Also she'd be a more valued asset and loyal to Team Uplift, unlike Haru.

Twinnstars said:
How do we feel about... unleashing Oro on our enemies?
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Last time we interacted with Orochimaru, Team Uplift very nearly became subjects of study. If we're to do anything with him --which I do not recommend --then I say we try and convince Tsunade to help sway him, or otherwise give us advice.
 
RandomOTP said:
Could we really trust him? And can we spare Mari for the (very long) time it would take to break this idiot of his bigotry? Sure, it's possible, but is it really feasible? Mari would be better off doing other things with that time. Not to mention it might make her soul hurt to manipulate and toy with someone so... young. Remember, she's laying all the moral weight on Hazou's shoulders, not her own. That's what's allowing her to act this way... or at least it was at the start. What if Mari decides that twisting the heart and mind of someone so young and (relatively) innocent is where she draws the line? She's not exactly... stable right now.

My vote is Drunk Jutsu Woman. Have Mari helping people instead of hurting. She's not taking care of her own soul right now. We are. We need to be mindful of that.
Also she'd be a more valued asset and loyal to Team Uplift, unlike Haru.



Last time we interacted with Orochimaru, Team Uplift very nearly became subjects of study. If we're to do anything with him --which I do not recommend --then I say we try and convince Tsunade to help sway him, or otherwise give us advice.
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Bigotry? How is he a bigot?

Sure he can be unpleasant but he's sorta justified in how he thinks, clans in general look down on and treat civilianborn like shit. I'm still for the jutsu hacker, I'm just saying that's an unfair assessment.
 
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Roomba said:
Can we convince the Leaf Council and Asuma to actually do it?
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I am dubious we can, especially after what Mari suggested in the meeting.

Ruthless pragmatism aside, here message basically was: "even without Jiraiya - the Goketsu are firmly on your side and willing to help you crush your enemies."

Taking a softer approach will contradict that and make us look somewhat indecisive.
 
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Tua said:
I am dubious we can, especially after what Mari suggested in the meeting.

Ruthless pragmatism aside, here message basically was: "even without Jiraiya - the Goketsu are firmly on your side and willing to help you crush your enemies."

Taking a softer approach will contradict that and make us look somewhat indecisive.
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True, but the problem of convincing them is largely about optics. For example, we could present it as showing off the unified strength of the Leaf-Sand-Mist alliance to prevent further opportunistic attacks on Leaf and loss of international influence on the continent. Still, I'd like to get Mari's opinion on whether this even has a chance of working before putting too much thought into the problem of selling it to the decision-makers.

It also bears mentioning that Mari's plan should lend more credibility to this proposal. Where normally the council wouldn't like the "softness" of the approach, it is being proposed by the woman who wants to use biological weapons on the people who attacked their home. And I'm sure Mari can make it sound suitably vicious and pragmatic, if she needs to.
 
Super rough plan of what I think our next immediate steps should be
[X] Action plan: Who let the dogs out

check everything with the clan
  • have Noburi meet with Kei to discuss 7th path trades as summoners
    • Talking points:
    • We would like to send a message to the dog clan to negoitiate for there next summoner to be from the Goketsu, similar to how we did the Snakes.
      • If we're lucky, this will result in Kakashi showing up to claim our new estate. (joke)
    • Also while we have her ear, how likely does she think it would be for the Pangolin to give special dispensation to teach their techniques to specific individuals? What would we need to do for them for this?
      • We are of course, talking about all the Jounin of leaf but I'd willing to work on a case to case basis. A stronger leaf is important and we could trade it for more power for team uplift. We also give Kei total veto power on any deal.
    • Also would you mind talking to the toads about Noburi being there next summoner? Maybe line up some contracts so he can hit the ground running
  • Clan heads
    • Have an informal meeting with all the teenage clan heads
    • We would like to bring a proposal to the clan council about expanding adoption oppurtunities
      • With the losses Konoha has taken we need more ninja who can perform at a peak level which clan training can provide
      • Plus no one would be taking a tax hit until we got back up to pre-collapse levels
      • We would also like to push for getting rid of the regents since the majority of clan heads aren't currently at the voting table
  • Adoption targets [doesn't need to be on-screen]
    • Schedule a dinner with each of them individually
    • Goal is to get to know them and see how they interact with the clan, determine willingness to get along, ask Noda if she'd be willing to wait a year for the adoption to go through if we covered her expenses/debts and helped her recover, etc.
  • ASAP in private with Mari:
    • Talk about Bio-warfare and why we're not okay with it.
    • Ask for her help in convincing others away from plague blankets without harming her credibility
  • push for peace with rock with plans of using economics to destabilize them
  • Convince Asuma to veto the plague blankets
    • This is a massive 'fuck you' to Tsunade
    • Bio-warfare can very easily backfire
    • If we engage in Bio-warfare, so will our foes, then everyone loses.
 
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Oneiros said:
Also while we are at it we will pay pretty much anything to convince the pangolins to let us teach the training jutsu to members outside of the clan
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I don't think that Keiko would be okay with the "anything" part of that. She made the decision to quit trading seals unanimously because what the pangolins were doing with them affronted her on a moral level.

Trying to reopen trade with them in any significant degree would be like crawling back to a used car salesman after storming out of the lot. They'll know that we're desperate, they'll know that they have the higher ground, and they'll use that advantage to demand their special towers back. Something that Keiko would NOT abide by.

Oneiros said:
Thank her for all the help she's given with dealing with our mental state. It has been super helpful
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Also? Yes. Please. She needs familial love and affection like a drowning man needs air.

Oneiros said:
Have an informal meeting with all the teenage clan heads
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Is there such a thing? They're born and bred clan members, raised from diapers with the expectation that they would, one day, take over their clan. They've no doubt received training to go along with that. Informal dress code or not, it'll very likely be formal in attitude.

Like it or not, we're all clan heads now. That'll put some distance between our friendships... but that doesn't mean that those bonds have to die. They'll just have to... well, change, I suppose. As all friendships that live beyond a certain age do.
 
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