Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

Inferno Vulpix · May 25, 2019

dakem said:
@Vecht

You have some good points, Marie winning could be great. However in this case the risk is far greater than the potential benefits. First, even her running weakens our political position and can be used against Goketsu (All of Goketsu are Mist infiltrators, they should not get a vote etc...). Her getting elected could also trigger a civil war, weakening the leaf further.

On the other hand, going missing nin is no longer an option for team uplift. The same secrets that got them accepted into the leaf makes them too important to let go. Everyone will want skywalkers and they will kill to get them. Missing nin means death.

While I'm sure we would be top priority enemies number one if we went missing-nin, I'm not sure that necessarily means death. After all, nothing breaks a trail quite like skywalkers, so if we skywalk out of leaf and are halfway across Fire, well, they could look for us, but I'm skeptical they could canvas the entire country.

And in the long term, if we did end up going that route, I'm personally fond of 'stock up on skywalkers and see if there's another continent out there that's not utterly insane.'

Vecht · May 25, 2019

Murska said:
Eh. The key point missing here is that if we campaign for Mari, then opposition to Hiashi is split and weaker, and we lose out on what we might gain by being the ones who drive the win to Chouji or Asuma. So by trying for Mari's win, we make Hiashi's victory more likely and if Chouji or Asuma wins our position to influence Leaf policy is significantly weakened.

Obviously we wouldn't put forth Mari unless we thought we could get the votes ahead of time. Tsunade seems to think it's doable. We can test the waters without committing, and if it doesn't look good then we swap to supporting an alternate candidate.

Cariyaga · May 25, 2019

Vecht said:
It's not a good outcome by any means, and yes we will be hunted, but it's the only option if Hiashi becomes Hokage.

I strongly disagree. Naruto would keep us safe in memory of Jiraiya, if nothing else. And also he has stated to us that he won't allow Hiashi to become hokage, no matter what, so.

Oneiros · May 25, 2019

Cariyaga said:
I strongly disagree. Naruto would keep us safe in memory of Jiraiya, if nothing else. And also he has stated to us that he won't allow Hiashi to become hokage, no matter what, so.

The J Man himself didn't think he could keep us alive if Hiashi got the hat. Your optimism is very high

dakem · May 25, 2019

Should an angry Hyuuga leak that we know the secret of skywalkers the entire world will hunt us down.

In addition going missing nin twice lowers our chance of getting accepted anywhere and I think we will need to leverage the power of a village to reach our goals.

Vecht · May 25, 2019

dakem said:
Should an angry Hyuuga leak that we know the secret of skywalkers the entire world will hunt us down.

In addition going missing nin twice lowers our chance of getting accepted anywhere and I think we will need to leverage the power of a village to reach our goals.

I agree.

However, the alternative is death, so it really isn't a choice.

Oneiros · May 25, 2019

dakem said:
Should an angry Hyuuga leak that we know the secret of skywalkers the entire world will hunt us down.

In addition going missing nin twice lowers our chance of getting accepted anywhere and I think we will need to leverage the power of a village to reach our goals.

Just go back to Mist and give them all Jiraiya's sealing notes

Murska · May 25, 2019

Vecht said:
Obviously we wouldn't put forth Mari unless we thought we could get the votes ahead of time. Tsunade seems to think it's doable. We can test the waters without committing, and if it doesn't look good then we swap to supporting an alternate candidate.

Going at it in a more careful way mitigates the risks but also the chances of victory. We can go hard and pitch: 'it's either us or Hiashi', forcing people to pick there. If we test the waters and don't commit, people will notice and they will assume that we would rather not have Hiashi than to have Mari, and then they'll offer us Chouji or Asuma and refuse to consider Mari, most likely.

Emstar · May 25, 2019

Vecht said:
What I was thinking is basically what we pitched to Jiraiya before. The suits with a bunch of macerator payloads, gasmasks, Kagome shields, and maybe a couple other useful utility seals.

I'm cool with that modulo us tweaking our current version of Macerators. I'd like to make a version that just does the "Shoot stuff out at velocity" thing without doing the "Can grind stuff up according to the following different settings." bit.

I don't really want someone piecing together that better Macerators (as we have them) are an excellent biological/chemical weapons delivery system. Just make a version thats "Shoot stuff fast in that direction, primarily useful for distractions or punching shit."

I'm down for the rest. We could probably make a better version in a week or so and nab a few test candidates (Rock lee, extended squad Nakano) and then show up to Shikamaru for a one hour demonstration or something.

"Hey look, Hazou is helping our military forces not die to squirrels! Isn't that great?"

TarzanNn · May 25, 2019

Inferno Vulpix said:
While I'm sure we would be top priority enemies number one if we went missing-nin, I'm not sure that necessarily means death. After all, nothing breaks a trail quite like skywalkers, so if we skywalk out of leaf and are halfway across Fire, well, they could look for us, but I'm skeptical they could canvas the entire country.

And in the long term, if we did end up going that route, I'm personally fond of 'stock up on skywalkers and see if there's another continent out there that's not utterly insane.'

I agree. Conditional we visit Bear first. The itching unresolved mystery...

dakem said:
Should an angry Hyuuga leak that we know the secret of skywalkers the entire world will hunt us down.

In addition going missing nin twice lowers our chance of getting accepted anywhere and I think we will need to leverage the power of a village to reach our goals.

Or lighthouse for a year or two developing WMD, hit S-rank, and return to force Uplift on EN

Jello_Raptor · May 25, 2019

Vecht said:
Idk, I have a hard time believing that considering we have the backing of another Sannin and are also adopting Naruto (and are publically taking on liability to help out the Uchiha, a prominent and fundamental Leaf clan). That should be more than enough to take the wind out of those sails. Also, since skywalkers are public knowledge now at some point we probably want to score some points by letting people know that's what got us into Leaf.

Also we need to get back to outfitting the entirety of Leaf forces with CHAOS Suits.

See my post from earlier. (My 1st post after last update) It doesn't matter what really happened, just what people believe. St

Given that Jiraya was the best sealmaster in the world, it's all too easy for people to dismiss us as inventing a cover story to get into leaf with Jiraya's help.

Likewise, Jiraya's flavour of lechery would never let some random missing-nin become as trusted as us without good reason. Despite that, now that he's dead, it's really easy to dismiss his actions as a product of he's lechery.

That narrative is seductively simple, and fits the preconceptions of everyone who isn't already on Jiraya's side.

We can't even expect someone like Hiashi to understand the real sequence of events and be pushing the false narrative cynically. Confirmation bias is a strong thing and truly believing a falsehood just makes you more persuasive.

Cariyaga · May 25, 2019

Oneiros said:
The J Man himself didn't think he could keep us alive if Hiashi got the hat. Your optimism is very high

The J Man himself was operating under a different world state to now, for one, and for two, I strongly believe he was exaggerating to get us in line. We have no reason to believe he was not stretching the truth there.

Vecht · May 25, 2019

[X] Universal Problem Solving Technique

Drop Kagome-approved levels of explosives on Hiashi's head while he's sleeping

There, problem solved.

dakem · May 25, 2019

Oneiros said:
Just go back to Mist and give them all Jiraiya's sealing notes

That would start the next ninja war.

We just need time to consolidate, research, build up and get Naruto healthy. We will be able to survive for a time as part of leaf, even if Hiashi wins. With Naruto joining Goketsu we will be hard to remove in the short term. An opportunity to get rid of Hiashi might come along.... Then we can get Naruto elected...

Cariyaga · May 25, 2019

MMKII said:
I'm cool with that modulo us tweaking our current version of Macerators. I'd like to make a version that just does the "Shoot stuff out at velocity" thing without doing the "Can grind stuff uo according to the following different settings." bit.

I don't really want someone piecing together that better Macerators (as we have them) are an excellent biological/chemical weapons delivery system. Just make a version thats "Shoot stuff fast in that direction, primarily useful for distractions or punching shit."

I'm down for the rest. We could probably make a better version in a week or so and nab a few test candidates (Rock lee, extended squad Nakano) and then show up to Shikamaru for a one hour demonstration or something.

"Hey look, Hazou is helping our military forces not die to squirrels! Isn't that great?"

Developing (or producing) Earth Wall seals would work for that too. Remember how Inuzuka's aunt died?

Oneiros · May 25, 2019

Cariyaga said:
The J Man himself was operating under a different world state to now, for one, and for two, I strongly believe he was exaggerating to get us in line. We have no reason to believe he was not stretching the truth there.

Well I think we can all agree that the fear the Hiashi will try to kill us is at least a somewhat of a real threat. Also as long as we win the hat we don't have to worry about that happening. So let's just try to make that happen

Cariyaga · May 25, 2019

Oneiros said:
Well I think we can all agree that the fear the Hiashi will try to kill us is at least a somewhat of a real threat. Also as long as we win the hat we don't have to worry about that happening. So let's just try to make that happen

It is definitely a threat, yeah.

dakem · May 25, 2019

He is weakened right now. Is he in the hospital? Can we get Nejii to kill him?

Roomba · May 25, 2019

Vecht said:
What I was thinking is basically what we pitched to Jiraiya before. The suits with a bunch of macerator payloads, gasmasks, Kagome shields, and maybe a couple other useful utility seals.

And built-in tourniquets. Won't even need seals, and will save lives in the field. +rep with Tsunade as well.

Vecht said:
No, this is absurd. There will not be a civil war. That would ruin Leaf and leave everyone wide open to Rock and Cloud. I said literally this in my post.

Or maybe an extremist faction of Hyuuga will split off and murder us in the middle of the night without Hiashi's knowledge. Hiashi will take a huge hit and either Chouza or Asuma will become Hokage. But if Hiashi truly believes we're traitors about to sell Leaf out to Mist, it's not impossible that he'd go for this.

Not that it really matters. The probability of Mari winning has to be in the lower single digit percentages. And anyone not-Hiashi is very acceptable for us, though we really, really need to talk to both Asuma and Chouza sooner rather than later.

Emstar · May 25, 2019

Cariyaga said:
Developing (or producing) Earth Wall seals would work for that too. Remember how Inuzuka's aunt died?

I'm assuming -- I will go out on a limb here and say "correctly", but perhaps also with a disclaimer of "on average" and "pessimistically" -- that any non-trivial research project is going to take a while under current conditions. "Shittier Macerators" probably wont take more than a few days.

I really just want to get 1-2 dozen "CHAOS suit MK 1.5" out the door quickly.

We can use some of the clanless nin to gather test data on how they improve mission effectiveness and survival rates over the course of 2-3 weeks and have Shikamaru do the Nara- patented "Powerpoint Presentation no Jutsu" and point out to some of the neutrals /friendlies how valuable stuff like this is. We can promise more to come.

Is it gonna win votes by itself? No.

But its another item in the pile.

Roomba said:
And built-in tourniquets. Won't even need seals, and will save lives in the field. +rep with Tsunade as well.

Yeah we should add those in too.

Cariyaga · May 25, 2019

MMKII said:
I'm assuming -- I will go out on a limb here and say "correctly", but perhaps also with a disclaimer of "on average" and "pessimistically" -- that any non-trivial research project is going to take a while under current conditions. "Shittier Macerators" probably wont take more than a few days.

Oh I was more talking about like. Using Tower and/or Jiraiya notes to speed it up, having Kagome research it (with the speed his higher sealing provides) and then providing him with the seals to infuse.

Vecht · May 25, 2019

Roomba said:
Not that it really matters. The probability of Mari winning has to be in the lower single digit percentages. And anyone not-Hiashi is very acceptable for us, though we really, really need to talk to both Asuma and Chouza sooner rather than later.

I'll happily play for an inside straight so long as the odds are favorable.

Oneiros · May 25, 2019

Chouza doesn't want the job and Mari has started working on convincing Asuma. With as non chalant we have been about working on securing the Hat I'd be surprised if Mari wasn't our only candidate

Emstar · May 25, 2019

Cariyaga said:
Oh I was more talking about like. Using Tower and/or Jiraiya notes to speed it up, having Kagome research it (with the speed his higher sealing provides) and then providing him with the seals to infuse.

I think the quickest way is just to get Super Heavy Duty Storage Seals , so that you can pack them with a pile of MEW walls and just unload that at the oncoming horde.

Really I'd like to do what @Lailoken suggested (heresy i know) in some sense:

A rampaging horde of chakra apes wouldn't really be a problem if you threw a firelog/oil macerator at them or an Implosion Seal or some other one of our Motherfucker-Begone Seals.

The twofold issue there, as it always is, boils down to "OPSEC" and "Follow Shikaku's advice as if it was his dying wish. "

Vecht · May 25, 2019

MMKII said:
Motherfucker-Begone Seals

Okay. We need to name something this, or all will have been for naught.

Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

Handsome Gentleperson

The Shining One

(Confirmed Jelly)

Handsome Gentleperson

Handsome Gentleperson

Handsome Gentleperson

The Shining One

Handsome Gentleperson

The Shining One