Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

MadScientist · May 17, 2019

This is still before Naruto?

[><] Action Plan: This Timeline is a Pretzel

Before the first date with Ami, make sure to bring her flowers.
Propose on the spot before she has a chance to open her mouth.
Before she responds, run away and then begin the "Ami date" chapter, starting the date again while studiously pretending that the previous scene didn't happen.
Upon receiving Ami's letter confirming her acceptance of your proposal, go and arrange the wedding.
Marry Ami.
Feel MadScientist's relief as the timeline is deleted by a shift.

Cariyaga · May 17, 2019

MMKII said:
We already have QM response to this that the answer is "Yes, but he's trying to figure out some of the nitty-gritty details of having multiple students at once." , so you can remove this.

Actually, I have suggestions there for how he does it.

Calligraphy is one part of sealing that will require a lot of time and effort to learn. While teaching his students calligraphy, he can take them aside one at a time for Sealing lessons.

e: Calligraphy is also a part of sealing that doesn't require his eye to learn so much as the eye of a good calligraphy teacher. So, ask the librarian if she knows anyone.

Inferno Vulpix · May 17, 2019

[x] A Chunk Of The Previous Plan That Could At Least In Theory Fit In One Update

Noumero said:
Tell me what to cut out to get it to below 300. I suggest the entire "actions" part.

I'd be happy to store that in the plan cache if the QMs relax their ruling on the retroactive plan or we're okay with not doing them retroactively.

Noumero · May 17, 2019

Inferno Vulpix said:
[x] Previous Plan Except Without The Things Which Are Already Done

Note: I renamed it to "A Chunk Of The Previous Plan That Could At Least In Theory Fit In One Update".

You could see the part that I cut out below the plan. Please do store it.

Velorien · May 17, 2019

Rafin said:
Also, @Velorien what's your stance on this problem?

I am happy with a series of smaller plans that individually consume less in-universe time. They would consume fewer spoons and likely result in higher quality of execution. However, they would also wreck the pacing, so whether the trade-off is worth is an open question.

Inferno Vulpix · May 17, 2019

Noumero said:
Note: I renamed it to "A Chunk Of The Previous Plan That Could At Least In Theory Fit In One Update".

You could see the part that I cut out below the plan. Please do store it.

I should've been more clear.

I'll be happy to store that half of the plan IFF the QMs allow such a tactic to not lose retroactivity or others express being okay if the section loses retroactivity. I am not at present okay with storing half the plan if everything in it would be forced non-retroactive and the rest of the hivemind isn't okay with that, so at the least I'm waiting for others to chime in on the topic.

Cariyaga · May 17, 2019

Velorien said:
I am happy with a series of smaller plans that individually consume less in-universe time. They would consume fewer spoons and likely result in higher quality of execution. However, they would also wreck the pacing, so whether the trade-off is worth is an open question.

IMO it's worth it at this exact point in the story and probably will not be worth it after the immediate *screaming in succession crisis* phase of the quest is over.

Rafin · May 17, 2019

Velorien said:
I am happy with a series of smaller plans that individually consume less in-universe time. They would consume fewer spoons and likely result in higher quality of execution. However, they would also wreck the pacing, so whether the trade-off is worth is an open question.

If the QMs don't have a problem with it but are also wary of turning off readers, the only thing I can think of is a poll.

Inferno Vulpix · May 17, 2019

The Plan Cache, including links to the two big plans last cycle, in case someone wants to diverge from continuing the previous plan and permutations thereof:

Inferno Vulpix said:
Plan Cache:

Hokageship:

Inform Naruto about the vote.

Discuss swing votes:

Hagoromo: Help pay off their loans?

Aburame: Can Mari get him on our side again?

Inuzuka: Leave to Naruto; he's trustworthy and hasn't soured relations with them.

We should push for having Asuma take Naruto as an administrative assistant/apprentice when he's Hokage.

Naruto is still rather useful, what with being groomed for the position, deeply loyal to leaf, very well disposed to the Sarutobi.

He is still recovering from his ordeal, so some allowances for that would be needed.

On the other hand as Leaf's resident Naruto summoner he can take care of paperwork, and other administrivia extremely efficiently. Letting you focus on the actual job.

Past Plans:
Speaking of Unity by faflec
Stealing the Snake by Oneiros/MMKII

Sometimes when we're making a plan we have a good idea that's just outside the temporal scope of the update, but we don't want to cut it from the plan because we might forget by the next cycle. This adds unnecessary words that could have been spent fleshing out the rest of the plan, and may outright cost XP in the worst cases.

This plan cache will hold these subsections so they don't fall into the void between planning cycles. Just ping me with the subsection and, unless it's wildly unreasonable, I'll edit it into the post. I'll keep them there for a while until they either make it into a winning plan, fall out of favour, or the context significantly changes. Depending on circumstances, they might end up in my Side Project Cache, or they might be dropped, and I'll make sure to be transparent about what I'm doing.

I'll do my best to quote this post after every update, so that planmakers can get an easy reminder about what we never quite got to last cycle.

edit: removed Akane/Tenten adoptions from the Cache for obvious reasons.

eaglejarl · May 17, 2019

Rafin said:
@eaglejarl
Actually, part of why the problem is so large right now is specific to this very update. Velorien gave us a chance to retroactively make a plan for stuff we want to have done before the Naruto meeting. He also told us that anything that would have to directly retcon your previous chapter is not executed, for good reason. And he gave us certain in game time limits regarding Keiko specifically.

But we don't actually know how long stuff takes. So we pretty much crammed this plan choke full with anything and everything we want to have done, putting the burden on the QMs to sort out which parts can't be done due to time travel interference or simply because there aren't enough hours in a day. Unfair maybe, given that you already spend so many spoons on this quest (definitely more than any player), but we didn't really know how to do it differently without, well, putting Goketsu on a comparatively worse footing.

That is entirely fair.

MMKII said:
I'm pretty sure that the previous post was a polite way of communicating that "This pile of bulletpoints is a bit of a dumpsterfire."

If we're just going to []Continue Previous Plan, we can excise some of the bullshit (finding out about international adoptions or what have you is absolutely not a priority) and focus on time critical stuff, fleshing that out a bit more.

[X] Action Plan: The Hundred Word Wonder

For the record, I have no problem proceeding with the existing plan. I won't get through all of it and I don't know how much time it will use up, but that's fine. Assuming there is still retroactive time available, you'll need to talk to @Velorien for the Thursday update if he wants to continue or get a new plan.

Rafin said:
Are we going to adopt them too? Our clan could use some civilians.

While I agree that we could cut stuff like that out, it is also true that the QMs have now read and thought about that specific plan. And they have already worked off around a quarter or so. It may well be that a 100 word plan that is similar to parts of the previous one, but with subtle changes in both wording and actual meat, costs them more spoons, not less.

@eaglejarl What do you prefer?

Also, @Velorien what's your stance on this problem?

See above. :>

Inferno Vulpix said:
except I was under the impression that we had one chance to vote in retroactive activities, so we had to have everything we wanted done retroactively in this cycle's plan.

That is entirely legit and I didn't think about it.

By the way, I should have said: @faflec , I am in no way criticizing you for this. The reason I'm bringing it up is because it's been ongoing. I used your plan solely because it was the most recent.

Rafin · May 17, 2019

Cariyaga said:
IMO it's worth it at this exact point in the story and probably will not be worth it after the immediate *screaming in succession crisis* phase of the quest is over.

Well yes. We'd just be doing this till Kagome has the Hat.

Immortal Lurker · May 17, 2019

[X] Perfection is achieved when there is nothing left to take away.

Have a clan meeting on naruto, adoptions, and politics.
- Track down Mari if we have to.
- Mari gives a mission report.
- What does the clan want, politically?
- Brainstorm.
  - What can we offer that might change votes?
Talk to Kagome in private about the nightmares.

Kiba · May 17, 2019

[x] A Chunk Of The Previous Plan That Could At Least In Theory Fit In One Update

Inferno Vulpix · May 17, 2019

Immortal Lurker said:
[X] Perfection is achieved when there is nothing left to take away.

Have a clan meeting on naruto, adoptions, and politics.

Track down Mari if we have to.

Mari gives a mission report.

What does the clan want, politically?

Brainstorm.

What can we offer that might change votes?

Talk to Kagome in private about the nightmares.

I'll do you one better:

[Χ] True Perfection

Noumero · May 17, 2019

Immortal Lurker said:
[X] Perfection is achieved when there is nothing left to take away.

Have a clan meeting on naruto, adoptions, and politics.

Track down Mari if we have to.

Mari gives a mission report.

What does the clan want, politically?

Brainstorm.

What can we offer that might change votes?

Talk to Kagome in private about the nightmares.

You're just asking for it, with that title:

Clan Meeting:
- Topics: Naruto, adoptions, politics.
- Find Mari, if necessary. Get a sitrep.
- What does the clan want, politically?
- Brainstorm vote-manipulation strategies.
Privately talk to Kagome about the nightmares.
Try downloading the Pangolin Scroll.

Inferno Vulpix said:
I should've been more clear.

Oh, no, your wording was perfectly clear. It's just that I didn't read your post: I just glanced at it sideways, noted keywords ("plan cache", "store", "happy"), and assumed that it said what I assumed it said.

QTesseract · May 17, 2019

[] Action plan: Stealing the Snake

faflec · May 17, 2019

Oneiros said:
Here's a plan with only two scenes that had 20+ voters last cycle

Word count 250

[X] Action plan: Stealing the Snake

Immediately after meeting Naruto go to the Tower and acquire the Snake Scroll:

Group: Hazou, Keiko, Noburi + Mari (if available).

We only need to convince the ANBU guarding it. As a clan, with Tsunade's and Naruto's support, we represent a significant fraction of Leaf's military strength. Additionally, the ANBU were loyal to Jiraiya personally. With these advantages, we'll only need an excuse:

We're Lord Goketsu, acting on the direct order (letter and spirit) of the Hokage: save the world, let no-one stand in our way.

Summon Scrolls are valuable resources that have been instrumental in stopping Akatsuki, and will clear numerous problems for Uplift.

Jiraiya was Orochimaru's team leader and heir — his scroll rightfully belongs to the Gouketsu.

Brandish Orochimaru's pardon and will as appropriate.

Check with Keiko: if you aren't trained in Summoning, can you safely sign the scroll?

(Would anyone even be willing to teach Hiashi summoning?)

Ask Keiko to let you look at the Pangolin Scroll's full length. Is it really a seal?

Contact the Snakes:

Learn about the Snakes' culture/politics from: Jiraiya's notes, Pangolins, Toads.

Message them via the Pangolins.

Inform that we'll be signing the scroll.

Orochimaru: Did he leave them a will? He's been pardoned; we want his wishes carried out.

Consider establishing positive relations by protecting them from Pangolin expansion (sell them seals?).

Suggest giving the Pangolins an OPSEC-sanitized list of seals. They could request seals from it in exchange for:

Gold

Improving treatment of conquered Clans.

Justsu

Conquered Clans' jutsu

We're still in retroactive planning mode, you realize that, right?

Oneiros · May 17, 2019

faflec said:
We're still in retroactive planning mode, you realize that, right?

We don't have to be. This is a perfectly valid plan

faflec · May 17, 2019

Oneiros said:
We don't have to be. This is a perfectly valid plan

So you're willing to lose 12-24 hr of planning (I dunno how much more in-story time we have, sue me) for this plan, even though we could do that stuff and then this plan without losing any in-story time whatsoever...why? I honestly do not understand, why should we want to ignore so many hours of possible planning and talking and actioning?

Adhoc vote count started by faflec on May 17, 2019 at 12:05 PM, finished with 67 posts and 12 votes.

Posts

16
5 people have voted
[X] Continue Previous Plan
- Shard
- Rafin
- Cariyaga
- Inferno Vulpix
- faflec
4 people have voted
[x] A Chunk Of The Previous Plan That Could At Least In Theory Fit In One Update
- Noumero
- Emstar
- Inferno Vulpix
- Kiba
2 people have voted
[X] Action Plan: The Hundred Word Wonder
- hYGP
- Emstar
2 people have voted
[X] Action Plan: Keeping it Simple, Stinkers
- Emstar
- hYGP
1 people have voted
[X] Action plan: Stealing the Snake
- QTesseract
1 people have voted
[X] Perfection is achieved when there is nothing left to take away.
- Immortal Lurker

Emstar · May 17, 2019

Noumero said:
Inter-village adoptions (Doigama, Katou).

@Noumero
IMO this is something thats going to burn more spoons than is worthwhile at the moment, since its asking NPC's to weigh in with their own opinion on something that will likely boil down to "Yes, but so long as you both have access to and spend the requisite political capital for it."

Oneiros · May 17, 2019

faflec said:
So you're willing to lose 12-24 hr of planning (I dunno how much more in-story time we have, sue me) for this plan, even though we could do that stuff and then this plan without losing any in-story time whatsoever...why? I honestly do not understand, why should we want to ignore so many hours of possible planning and talking and actioning?

Because we can do everything in the plan after the Naruto meeting in one day. Nothing in the plan is important to happen immediately

Noumero · May 17, 2019

MMKII said:
IMO this is something thats going to burn more spoons than is worthwhile at the moment, since its asking NPC's to weigh in with their own opinion on something that will likely boil down to "Yes, but so long as you both have access to and spend the requisite political capital for it."

Fair enough. Cut out.

Kiba · May 17, 2019

Oneiros said:
Because we can do everything in the plan after the Naruto meeting in one day. Nothing in the plan is important to happen immediately

It's rather odd for a clan head during such a crisis to do nothing for a whole day, let alone the entire clan in question.

Noumero said:
[x] A Chunk Of The Previous Plan That Could At Least In Theory Fit In One Update
Wordcount: 217.

Family discussions:

Adopting Lee:

He's talented, and now without support.

We could mitigate his personality to minimize friction (soundproofing, house rules...).

Mari:

What's she been doing lately?

Update her on our recent actions.

Keiko:

Does she want Ami to attend the wedding? Would it be safe to send her an encrypted message?

Where are Hyenas'/Leopards' Scrolls?

Kagome: Give him Jiraiya's sealing notes (remove evidence of your OPSEC blunder beforehand).

Evaluate feasibility of the following with Keiko and Mari:

Snatching the Snake Scroll:

Step 1: Go to the Tower and convince the ANBU to give it to us. We're the Godaime's clan, represent a significant fraction of Leaf's military power, plus the ANBU were loyal to Jiraiya personally. Should be doable. (Use Jiraiya's order to save the world as an excuse?)

Step 2: Jointly establish Hazou and Noburi as new Summoners, with summons' public acknowledgment.

A Pangolin-Snake-Toad alliance:

Preexisting allies and our seals would make it unstoppable.

Our condition: Snakes support Gouketsu summoners.

Bonus: Gives us more avenues to pressure Pangolins into improving conquered clans' treatment.

Offering Pangolins a selection of seals to buy, in exchange for:

Improved treatment of conquered nations.

Jutsu, especially conquered nations'.

Valuables.

Solving Skytower-deal concerns via:

Selling seals using Toad intermediaries.

Transferring the Scroll's direct ownership to the Gouketsu.

~~Tell me what to cut out to get it to below 300. I suggest the entire "actions" part.~~

I cut the following out:

Actions:

Noburi: Schedule an appointment with Kabuto to check bloodline interactions with SC/Summoning.

Consider investigating him on adoption.

Yes, the Toad Scroll is Noburi's.

Gather information on Akatsuki:

Noburi: When visiting the Tower, grab their profiles.

Kagome: Summarize their book.

Snakes:

Hazou: Learn their culture/predispositions from Summons and Jiraiya's notes.

Keiko: Message them via Pangolins.

Send Jiraiya's letter to Orochimaru along (in case he's alive).

Did Orochimaru leave them his will? Jiraiya wrote him a pardon, we'd want to carry out his wishes.

(If Keiko agreed to invite Ami) Hazou:

Meet with Shikamaru (urgent).

Be sympathetic, but skip condolences.

(Concerned) Did he ensure Ami can attend Keiko's wedding? Ami'll be displeased otherwise.

Suggest postponing just the ceremony to give her time.

We'll take care of the rest... for twelve hours.

Send Ami a(n encrypted) message:

Update her on the wedding.

Offer any assistance in getting into Leaf IFF it wouldn't cost us politically.

Suggestion: Volunteer to transport/escort one of our merchants to Leaf. At luxury speeds.

She totally owes us another favor.

Why are we evaluating feasibility with only the girls rather than the entire clan?

faflec · May 17, 2019

Oneiros said:
Because we can do everything in the plan after the Naruto meeting in one day. Nothing in the plan is important to happen immediately

I am sorry, this is confusing. I am reading this as:

My plan can be done very quickly after the Naruto meeting, the other plan doesn't contain time-sensitive stuff.

I would point out that my argument has nothing to do with this rebuttal as I have interpreted it. Even if the other plan doesn't contain time-sensitive stuff, it still uses in-game time that would be unused and/or wasted otherwise if we used your plan. I would argue that to maximize efficiency of our in-game time we would want to use that retroactive time and then move on to ...non-retroactive time? Well, whatever the right phrase is.

Oneiros · May 17, 2019

faflec said:
I am sorry, this is confusing. I am reading this as:

I would point out that my argument has nothing to do with this rebuttal as I have interpreted it. Even if the other plan doesn't contain time-sensitive stuff, it still uses in-game time that would be unused and/or wasted otherwise if we used your plan. I would argue that to maximize efficiency of our in-game time we would want to use that retroactive time and then move on to ...non-retroactive time? Well, whatever the right phrase is.

You've convinced me deleting it

Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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