Dissonance
Luna's Luna
- Location
- Ginnungagap.
- Pronouns
- S/H/T
They'd certainly be guaranteed membership into the Evil League of Evil if they did that.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
-
- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
They'd certainly be guaranteed membership into the Evil League of Evil if they did that.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Aren't they cofounders?They'd certainly be guaranteed membership into the Evil League of Evil if they did that.
e:
To be clear, this is a meta-level concern. It is not in our interests to encourage planmakers to use language that encourages voting for the plan rather than effectiveness of the plan.
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The emotive language is used to motivate Hazou to be able to succeed, not to motivate players to vote.
*pinches bridge of nose*
Right. Unintended memeticness aside, if people are going to continue voting for this then I want to edit the Kei section to be less [wrongbad] to Kei's sensibilities.
Any suggestions?
Dissonance
Luna's Luna
- Location
- Ginnungagap.
- Pronouns
- S/H/T
Have you heard of our LORD and Savior, the YOUTHSUIT?
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
I don't... really think it's all that wrongbad to her sensibilities. I think it might be surprising, but I mean. Kids are experimenting with mind-altering techniques, what do they expect?
That said... just changing the wording to follow from what Hazou tells Keiko. Project himself -- warmth, comfort, compassion, etc.
- Location
- uk
Make it less 'I will make Keiko feel good' and more 'I will find strength in what I value, despite fear'.
For comparison mostly, since I don't expect there to be 9 votes in <24h.
Wordcount: 181 (TBC)
[X] Action Plan: Ki Practice, unshounened
- Practicing KI with Kei:
- Inform her we will try projecting our feelings.
- Do not attempt to dominate or overpower
- Reach for the convictions we treasure. Not a will to destroy, but to improve. Not to dominate, but to support.
- The world is terrifying. Keiko is terrifying. Yet it can be improved, and if it can, then it must.
- The fear is an irrelevant distraction, and we know how to set it aside.
- Grab an hour-ish of Jiraiya's time, alone, if possible.
- Mindset: Mentally prepare for the most brutal thing you have ever experienced.
- Ask him about Killing Intent.
- What's the deal there?
- Help us practice resisting it, please?
- It's a critical vulnerability if some Jonin can incapacitate and kill us.
- Ask Jiraiya to floor you with a bit of his KI as he is the scariest/strongest around.
- Please don't accidentally kill us or break our minds though.
- Test the same feelings we tried with Keiko
- Repeat a few times.
- Ask Jirayia to vary the intensity to find out how much KI you can stand.
- Ask Jiraiya for intel on our competitors.
TaliesinSkye
Occasional Editor
- Location
- Northeast Ohio, United States
I'm sure sleeping around is a type of diplomacy Jiraiya would approve of, but I'm not sure anyone else would. XD
Agreed. And in any case, I think you've overestimated the number of voters who were dissatistified with the idea of testing expressing non-KI emotions of love and reassurance with Keiko.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Depends, how do we want to play this?
Playing Devil's Advocate
On a meta-level, I trust everyone here to know exactly what theyre doing by now if they choose to put that 'X' in the box. Most everyone, I suppose.
If that is because they want Ami shipping, for example, then let there be Ami shipping.
If that is because they want Shounen clash of wills, then let it be so.
Let them eat cake.
(Not really though.)
THAT BEING SAID there are more viable paths to traverse to obtain these goals.
I would caution everyone here to not vote for things based on how good they sound, as far as advancing your goals go. Vote for them on how effective they are at doing that (but dont quibble over an estimated 2-3% difference or something, thats just going to drive us all crazy).
So you want to buy a youthsuit?
You shouldnt just write that in a plan.
Go construct something equally ridiculous, under the guise of Sealtech weaponry. Give it a nice name that approximates YOUTHSUIT-ery, even. BUT YOU make it an effective and advantageous option to have! In the context, this becomes a good option! You have all but nominally accomplished your goal.
Theres your youthsuit.
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Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
If we're having this discussion, I suppose I must bring up that not everyone who votes participates actively in discussions or is aware of the history behind memevotes, or the seriousness with which QMs treat votes.
TaliesinSkye
Occasional Editor
- Location
- Northeast Ohio, United States
@MadScientist, because you unvoted for your own plan I think we don't have a convenient way of getting to it with vote tally anymore.
- Location
- uk
Could have @MMKII copy it to their vote, since it's now first in the line
- Location
- Potato land
Do you actually think there's a better way to get to the Ami date compared to what I'm doing? We need Keiko's permission, or there be dragons in our future. Hazou's motivation needs to be consistent with his IC knowledge and characterization. And it needs to be something that Keiko can accept as reasonable, even if she doesn't think it will actually work.
There isn't really much room to manoeuvre on this narrow bridge to the Ami promised land.
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- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Sorry, that was intended as a joke. Please continue to vote for things that will be fun to write.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
You could always combine it with the Jounin Presence training. Ask her about it at the start, transition into attempting Hazou's own variant as he explains what he's meaning.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
See, you're doing this thing, where you use that word "memevote" like you just did in this post to chiefly mean "Bad , YOUTHSUITGATE tier stuff." Which are, at their core, low effort shitposts for gags. Yet, simultaneously are saying that its okay to call stuff that based on one or two elements that serve mostly as flavour, and not substance.
Implicit in the dialogue here, whenever that phrase is used, its to refer to low effort shitposts and to inject some sort of admonishment to any who support them. Thats how its been used on the playerside and the QMside for the most part. And thats fine, where it applies.
What I think is silly, is broadening the category of things to which that word applies artificially, and expecting all that context not to follow with the word.
Thats not really good rhetoric, ya know?
E: And this is of course not a personal attack or anything, but more a statement about that sort of thing in general
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TaliesinSkye
Occasional Editor
- Location
- Northeast Ohio, United States
There's two things about this plan I don't like. It practices with Jiraiya instead of Keiko when working our way up the difficulty scale is likely a better idea and won't result in taking up so much of Jiraiya's precious time. (Time we might not even get, meaning the plan doesn't go off at all.) It also doesn't attempt the 'let's see if we can project love and reassurance at Keiko instead of killing intent' experiment, which will be fun to read and could open up interesting new strategies.
- Location
- uk
Not to gang up on you, but isn't 'elements that are flavour and not substance' exactly what the meme examples you provide are? YOUTHSUIT stuff was pure flavour.
Granted, your plan isn't *purely* flavour. But it has flavour elements that distract from the substance, and are possibly getting it more votes than it would otherwise get. Similarly how the purely-memetic plans would not get any votes, except for getting people excited with flavour.
I think calling your plan a meme vote is a stretch, but it's not completely out of nowhere.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
I'm just using that as an example.
Im not evil enough to try to thwart the foundations of trust and democracy on which our bonds rely on.
Like, especially not for something this silly and unimportant.
@MadScientist would you consider just adjusting your plan as necessary? I trust you to have good judgement and to follow the spirit of your plan (roughly) and not edit crazy stuff in, but also to turn away from danger if it turns out that something voted by a handful of people yesterday, is no longer a good idea.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Yeah, I'll happily accept a stamp with bold, lime-green text saying
"40% MEME CONTENT"
On this particular one.
But I think it does do some stuff that at least gets us solid information on the killing intent thing, gives us more exposure to what that sort of thing feels like wrt the Jiraiya section (perhaps desensitizing us to lesser attempts, or at least giving us an idea of what to expect), and it does so in a way that I find mildly plausible and palatable as far as character development goes.
Whether it does that in a way you like or agree with is another matter entirely.
Noumero
Omit Needless Words
Excellent, but... I'm doubtful that is the right track. Keiko values her privacy; as @Cariyaga said, she is likely to disagree in principle. I have an alternative approach in mind:
Ami is a powerful ninja, likely on track to S-rank. As such, having information on her goals is paramount, and having her as an ally would be valuable. Since Leaf and Mist are forming a close alliance, it's possible that this could happen. We should ask Keiko whether she thinks Ami could be convinced to support our Uplift goals, with a hopeful suggestion that this may give them grounds for reconciling, someday.
I don't think we should frame it as trying to fix their relationship directly (Hazou may have this as an ulterior goal though, sure), and we obviously should make it clear that we're not asking Keiko to betray Ami's secrets to us. But I think it's more likely to work this way.
(Also, @Cariyaga, wouldn't you like to see a philosophical conversation with one of the most skilled Frozen Skein users in history? I recall you liked those.)
This is easy: just include an offhand acknowledgement/apology that Hazou is intruding in Keiko's life. She'll make the connection on her own, it's pretty obvious.
(By the by, I approve of your treatment of Hazou as a puppet in our hands whose ignorance of our true intentions is but another tool of manipulation at our disposal. Very correct.)
Edit:
[X] Action Plan: One small step
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Alright, proposed edit to the Kei section:
"Hazou projects his own soul to answer Kei's and de-escalate the psychic interaction. The feeling he conveys is that yes Kei scares him, but that doesn't matter. He will love and support her to whatever degree she feels comfortable with, and whether or not she's scary doesn't enter into the equation."
What do people think?
"Hazou projects his own soul to answer Kei's and de-escalate the psychic interaction. The feeling he conveys is that yes Kei scares him, but that doesn't matter. He will love and support her to whatever degree she feels comfortable with, and whether or not she's scary doesn't enter into the equation."
What do people think?
- Location
- Yes.
Sounds good to me.
Cool. Anyone objecting?
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Well, the following comes to mind:
I understand that we want to show our love and support to Keiko because she is a massive friggin' edgelord.Methods!Hermione said:
But have we considered that maybe thats a bit much for her to handle?
Hazou's heart can go pretty damn far.