If you are still poking at the research tree, the SDB team has been wondering what techs actually unlock new levels of Onboard Industry. We can't find any mention of the parts until T5 Precision Replicators in Starship Construction.
I will reject the notion that the original Constitution is ugly, though obviously the design would have benefited from modern production values rather than the austere simplicity forced by 1960s TV model-making budgets.
It is true, though, that a lot of other hulls built from the same era wind up looking like bad kitbashes- though the same can be said of the TNG era.
just had a few thoughts on doctrines. this is gonna be more of an outline then a full argument, but i will do the best i can.
we need to look at more than just the mechanics when deciding what we want out of offensive doctrine. we need to look at our potential enemies, our strengths, and our themes.
on a theme basis alone, i find it hard to say that we should go for wolf pack. and while wolf pack favors High D and S ships, are we going to be able to afford to take keplers off of garrison duty, the thing that we are designing them to fulfill?
next is fleet strength and composition. our design doctrine and past builds have seen us favor a heavy fleet. lots of explorers and comparatively less cruisers and escorts. that is not the kind of comp where we can send two of our big boys out raiding. we cant afford to lose the big boys to a rouge enemy fleet, nor do we have the numbers to slip some small guys out to raid because we need screening elements.
and then look at some of the enemies we have fought/are canon. Biophage: wolf pack is useless and incredibly dangerous. Borg, we cant beat them without a massive fleet. Dominion, their stuff is too far away to be raided. and heck, the Romulans and Klingons are both major users of and have been heavily targeted by Wolf Packs. if they are not developing specific countermeasures against that shit, i would be shocked.
so the only major (potential) enemies we know about that wolf pack would excel/work at all against are the Cardassians and the Ferengi.
as for base strike,i think it is a good concept, but it has a lot of overlap with decisive battle and wolf pack. it feels like its trying to be a middle ground, and that makes feel it really weak in comparison.
Decisive Battle, however, is very much in line with our Design Doctrine, it synergizes well with our defensive doctrine, and it is useful against all enemies.
I'm not too partial to the Galaxy design TBH, but I do like it better than the Constitution. Of the pre-Galaxy ships which featured prominent secondary hulls, I like the Ambassador class. After that, maybe the Constitution-A. Excelsior just reminds me of a puffed up bird with a weird neck.
I know that the current combat system favours the use of ships like the Kepler in combat scenarios but am I really the only one who thinks that quite a lot of people in the Federation would be somewhat unhappy if they learned just what we plan to do with their new fancy science ship?
I kind of prefer Wolfpacks purely for the thematics of letting our EC Explorers win our wars. It'd also play together nicely with the Federation's massive economy to simply let us grind down enemies with sheer superior weight.
That said, some more versatility to it would apparently be nice; Maybe stuff like defensive ambushes and hitting the rear of advancing enemy fleets, or slow them down to let us evacuate civilians and shore up defenses, to complement our defense in depth from FD. Feints to split up enemy fleets and handle them in detail. Expand the D bonus for escaping to also apply when pursuing.
as for base strike,i think it is a good concept, but it has a lot of overlap with decisive battle and wolf pack. it feels like its trying to be a middle ground, and that makes feel it really weak in comparison.
It's a question of where you put your focus on destroying the enemy's warmaking capability.
Wolf pack doctrine's raiding tactics emphasize hitting their economy, and betting that you can minimize your own losses while their fleets and people starve for lack of resources. That their fleets are forced to scatter all across the AO to maintain the supply chain also prevents concentration of force on the side of the enemy.
Base strike doctrine looks at the expense of infrastructure in time, materials and skilled labour. It bets that by moving fast and hitting hard at enemy infrastructure near and behind the lines you can break the enemy's capability to project force, construct new ships and repair the ships he already has, which leaves his fleets to wither on the vine unsupported.
Decisive battle doctrine looks directly at the enemy's ships and bets that however hard they can hit, you can hit comparatively harder and tank their blows better. That by forcing the enemy to engage, preferably on your terms, you can put your weight of metal to better use than he can and destroy his ships. This then leaves him unable to protect himself, while his industry cannot keep up and replace his losses fast enough.
Generally speaking, against an enemy that is dependent on shipping, wolf pack doctrine is superior, but takes a long time to become effective. Against an enemy of equal strength, base strike doctrine is superior because you avoid damage versus doing much greater damage, but it draws out the war. And against an inferior enemy, decisive battle doctrine is superior and brings the war to a conclusion very fast.
I kind of prefer Wolfpacks purely for the thematics of letting our EC Explorers win our wars. It'd also play together nicely with the Federation's massive economy to simply let us grind down enemies with sheer superior weight.
That said, some more versatility to it would apparently be nice; Maybe stuff like defensive ambushes and hitting the rear of advancing enemy fleets, or slow them down to let us evacuate civilians and shore up defenses, to complement our defense in depth from FD. Feints to split up enemy fleets and handle them in detail. Expand the D bonus for escaping to also apply when pursuing.
What it comes down to, is that the Federation fleet right now is very suited to base strike and decisive battle doctrines, but wolfpack doctrine is something it's... not necessarily bad at with those ludicrous science ratings Starfleet usually slings around, but the doctrine is really build on the assumption of cruiser scale ships at the heaviest doing the fighting.
A doctrine based on raiding with Explorer class vessels would require a lot of thought and a custom doctrine.
Yeah, I'd say Wolf Pack doctrine would excel against the Cardassians but it's not as flexible as the other doctrines.
It's specifically geared for any enemy that has logistics weaknesses AND you can force to the negotiating table. It's not intended for, say, doing a full scale invasion of Cardassia. It would be useless against a non-conventional threat like the Borg.
If we had a surplus of offensive doctrine research teams, I wouldn't mind researching both Wolf Pack doctrine and another doctrine, just so we could optimize against the Cardassians in the short-term, but switch to a more long-term doctrine later on. Of course, we don't have such a surplus, and we don't know what the doctrine switching costs are.
A 'Wolf Pack' is a Fleet that is: not more than 5% of total tonnage, not more than 5% of total numbers, that may attempt to bypass border zones and operate in enemy territory.
5% is ... really low for every polity that's NOT a tier 1 power.
5% of total ships of a mid-tier power like the Orion Union or Qloathi is around 15 ships. 5% of that is less than 1 ship.
Even the Apiata with their 36 ships, if they were operating alone, would have trouble meeting this requirement. Their standard task force of 1 Little Queenship and 2 Stingers and maybe a Forager is way above 5% of their total tonnage or total numbers.
Maybe there should be an alternative upper bound for the smaller powers? Like "not more than 5% of total tonnage or total ships, OR not more than 4000kt of total tonnage or 4 ships". That would just allow squeezing in the typical Apiata task force.
And I do think that if the Apiata were operating alone, they would've leaned toward the Wolf Pack doctrine. edit: as was demonstrated by their raid on the Cardassian-Sydraxian convoy in 2311.Q2.M2)
Actually I now have the ridiculous image of, in the event of war, declaring each individual Kepler to be a Wolfpack. Their high S and decent D scores would make them very hard to catch, and their low firepower is not a detriment to commerce raiding; they have enough to blast a freighter.
Well, a lone Kepler might work for a while, but the enemy is bound to wise up and start escorting their auxiliaries. While that's actually a secondary intent of the Wolf Pack Doctrine, it does mean we can't just skimp on the wolf packs assuming they'll be attacking unescorted cargo ships and the like. A Wolf Pack will need some teeth.
An ideal Wolf Pack might look like a Renaissance as the combat and C&C cruiser, supported by a Kepler for fleet detection and evasion, and Miranda-As (or other combat frigate) to round it out, depending on how large the Wolf Pack should be (which in turn depends on the arms race of auxiliary escort forces).
I suspect the new combat frigate design is designed to replace the somewhat... oddly balanced... ROS-era ships Oneiros gave the Romulans at game start:
Bird-of-Prey 2266-2310 [192m 200k t]
C4 S2 H5 L3 P3 D4
Cost [20br, 120sr, 2 Years], Crew[O-1, E-3, T-1]D7 Cruiser 2245-Now [228m 344k t]
C3 S1 H2 L2 P2 D3
Cost[35br, 50sr, 4 Years], Crew[O-2, E-3, T-1]
Now, aside from the strangeness of the heavier D7s being significantly less capable in all categories, which could be explained by their extreme obsolescence, and the comparatively tiny Birds-of-Prey having Hull as their highest stat... We notice that both these classes are pretty clearly inferior to a good modern combat frigate. The D7 is obviously inferior in all respects; the Bird-of-Prey can hold its own but has a staggering SR cost. Assuming that Oneiros hasn't quietly updated these stats and assuming the Romulans don't have unlimited SR reserves, maintaining a large fleet of Birds-of-Prey must be a nightmare for the Romulans.
I've definitely been considering nerfing them. I think the D7 is about right, but the BoP should be nowhere near that durability in hindsight. I'd probably actually be more savage in my cuts on that, although I'll compensate Rommie fleet numbers a little to go with it. The K'tinga's durability does need to drop, though just how far is the question. Minimum -1 H+L.
If you guys ever end up exchanging blows with the KE or RSE then I'd go to the trouble of nerfing them, but otherwise I'll just start transitioning them to the new generation of designs (even if they aren't quite as worthwhile as the old Rommie BoP).
If you guys ever end up exchanging blows with the KE or RSE then I'd go to the trouble of nerfing them, but otherwise I'll just start transitioning them to the new generation of designs (even if they aren't quite as worthwhile as the old Rommie BoP).
Regarding percentages of ship totals for wolf pack tactics; it'd be better to limit this as 'max of x number escort scale combatants or % of total tonnage, whichever is more.' This gives not top tier powers the ability to apply wolf pack tactics. On the other hand, actually top tier powers, who can afford to sling wolf packs of cruisers or possibly even explorer class vessels around get some flexibility.
Matters coming to a head in Sydraxian space have had ramifications for my command in the Gabriel Expanse. I have had to assign Commodore ka'Sharren' task force to the Firefly subsector, which is our coreward border, to help the Caitian task force. The Cardassians have expressed interest in utilising this space to dispatch an intervention into the Hierarchy's collapse, and I suspect that there is nothing that will temper their enthusiasm like the knowledge that the Commodore may be hiding among any of the local stars.
I am informed that the Council has delayed a decision on Amarkia's request for civilian colony approval, and will revisit the matter in a year's time, after which the matter of the Sydraxians should be concluded, and a better understanding of the strategic environment can be obtained.
Sincerely,
Rear Admiral T'Lorel
Sector Command, Gabriel Border Zone
========================
Ongoing Projects
Starfleet Engineering Team - Joining mining colony work - ETC 2316.Q4
---Outpost I Established in orbit around 41 Miele IV on 2316.Q2
Starfleet Colony Team - Building mining colony on 41 Miele IV - ETC 2316.Q4
[Planning to work on 29 Miele V SR Mine Next]
Amarkian Engineering Team - Participating in mining colony on 10 Miele - ETC 2317.Q2
Amarkian Colony Team - Building mining colony on 10 Miele - ETC 2317.Q2
[Outpost I constructed at 10 Miele]
Apiata Workerbee Team - Preparing to deploy to 33 Dorsata
Apiata Colony Team - Preparing to deploy to 33 Dorsata
-Apiata Task Force- Moving to 33 Dorsata urgently
[Apiata Mining colony on 2 Dorsata is operational]
Prospecting
Key: (This Quarter / Last Quarter / Next Quarter) - Results of Last Quarter
Starfleet:
USS Nicholas Barton, NCC-632, Prospector (21 Baker / 29 Baker / 34 Baker) - 29 Baker II 15br/yr mine, 29 Baker V 10sr/yr, minor colony potential
USS Somak, NCC-635, Prospector (- / 46 Miele / - ) - 46 Miele - Boring
[Starfleet collects 30br from 32 Baker system]
[Miele Subsector/Subsector 1e is now fully explored]
Known Systems of Interest
Colonised:
Collie (Starfleet)
Sguirri (Apinae)
Tal Hanar (Amarkia)
2 Dorsata (Apiata), 2x25br/yr mine <-- only 1 mine built thus far
Claimed:
(Starfleet) 41 Miele II, Class L habitable planet, 41 Miele IV Class C frozen rock with 25br/yr mine potential
(Amarkia) 3 Miele VI, 35br/yr mine
(Starfleet) 29 Baker II 15br/yr mine, 29 Baker V 10sr/yr, minor colony potential
(Amarkia) 10 Miele V, Class M Planet, 15br & 15sr/yr, 10 Miele II-3 Class M moon, 10br & 15sr/yr, 2 planets with ancient ruins
Unclaimed:
11 Dorsata - 25br/yr mine and 15br/yr mine available
19 Dorsata II - 10sr/yr mine site, small interest
31 Miele V-3 - 5rp/yr research colony site, difficult terrain, minor interest
38 Miele VII - Research Colony site
21 Dorsata IV - Asteroid Belt, 35br/yr mine site
30 Dorsata VI - 35br/yr mine site on 30 Dorsata VI (Class K colony option on 30 Dorsata III)
33 Dorsata III - Class G minor colony, 20sr/yr <-- not being actively worked, but the Apiata will fight hard to protect the 33 Dorsata system
33 Dorsata XI - Class T Gas Giant, 30sr/yr
42 Miele V - Class M 10br & 10sr/yr
========================
The Gabriel Sector
Date Updated: 2315.Q4
Starfleet Status: Normal (Can travel 1 Sq Length per 2 Weeks)
Starfleet Status within GBZ: High Alert (Can travel 1 Sq Length per Week)
Federation Status: Normal
UESPA: High Alert (LBZ)
VHC: High Alert (LBZ)
TSF: High Alert (LBZ)
AG: High Alert (LBZ)
Amarkia: Normal
Caitian: Normal
Apiata: Normal
Indoria: Normal
Orion: Normal
Rigel: High Alert (LBZ)
BDF: High Alert (LBZ)
Caldonia: Normal
Risa: Normal
Gaen: Normal
Seyek: Normal
Qloath: Normal
Honiani: Normal
Sector Command Staff
Sector Commander: Rear Admiral T'Lorel
Task Force 1: Commodore Jessica Rivers
Task Force 2: Commodore
Task Force 3: Commodore Nash ka'Sharren
Auxiliary: Commodore Alejandro Suarez
Apiata TF: High Queen Nerzizza
Amarki TF: Admiral Galen Toor
Caitian TF: Admirall N'shrr Anara
FBS Embedded Reporter -
FNN Embedded Reporter -
High Comb Times Embedded Reporter -
Rear Admiral T'Lorel
Current Posting: Pending
Rule-Abiding: Medium
Aggression: Medium
Nerve: High
Diplomacy: High
Politics: Medium
Commodore Nash ka'Sharren
Current Posting: Commander, Task Force 6
Rule-Abiding: Low
Aggression: High
Nerve: High
Diplomacy: High
Politics: Medium
Commodore Jessica Rivers
Current Posting: Commander, Task Force 1
Rule-Abiding: Medium
Aggression: Medium
Nerve: High
Diplomacy: Medium
Politics: Medium
Commodore Revak
Current Posting: Commander, Task Force 2
Rule-Abiding: Medium
Aggression: Low
Nerve: Medium
Diplomacy: Medium
Politics: High
Commodore Alejandro Suarez
Expanded Field Repair capacity
Current Posting: Auxiliary Command, GBZ Sector Fleet
Rule-Abiding: High
Aggression: Low
Nerve: Medium
Diplomacy: Low
Politics: High
High Queen Nerzizza
Current Posting: Commander, Apiata Gabriel Fleet
Rule-Abiding: Medium
Aggression: High
Nerve: High
Diplomacy: Low
Politics: Medium
Admiral Galen Toor
Current Posting: Commander, Amarkian Gabriel Fleet
Rule-Abiding: High
Aggression: Medium
Nerve: Medium
Diplomacy:Medium
Politics: High
The man who led the Amarkian response to Syndicate slaving raids in Amarkian Space.
Admiral N'shrr Anara
Current Posting: Commander, Task Force Gabriel, Caitian Grand Fleet / Task Force 7, Gabriel Border Zone
Rule-Abiding: Medium
Aggression: Low
Nerve: Medium
Diplomacy: Medium
Politics: High
Sector Details
Roughly encompasses area from 4h to 1e, with outcroppings, with space above and below this plane
~15 Squares worth, each of which contains a few dozen stars, of which a quarter will have planets and other items of interest
Each power is accessing the sector from a different direction. Your staff will be attempting to surge out, claim, then retain space. Keeping a safe route for logistics for stations and nascent colonies will be important.
To start with, your commanders will have Starfleet assets and Starfleet auxiliaries. They will begin to ask for other resources, and you will be empowered by Acts of Council to pick and choose who you use to contribute.
Current Sector Policy Settings
Green Light = Fully Allowed, Red Light = Fully Denied, Yellow Light = Proceed on Own Recognizance
----
Apiata Fleet & Auxiliary GBZ Access - Green Light
Amarki Fleet & Auxiliary GBZ Access - Green Light
All Member World - Fleet Unit GBZ Access - Red Light
All Member World - Auxiliary GBZ Access - Red Light
Expansion - Green Light
Infrastructure Building - Yellow Light
Mining Colony Building - Yellow Light
Civilian Colony Building - Red Light
Assault on Entry Worlds - Yellow Light
Assault on Link to Entry Worlds - Red Light
Attack Opposing Auxiliary Shipping - Yellow Light
Engineering Ships = Build and Repair Facilities
Hospital Ships = Allow responses to medical distress calls without tying down your Excelsiors
Freighter/Cargo Ships = Supply
Prospectors = Required to prepare for Colony creation
Colony Ship = Required to deliver colonists
Passenger = Required for evacuations, and major colonies
Civilian = Can be set for a number of tasks.
Logistics Example Requirements:
1 Sm per four Auxiliaries deployed
1 Sm per two Escort assigned
1 Sm per Cruiser assigned
2 Sm per Explorer assigned
1 Sm, 1 Blk per Station
2 Sm, 2 Blk per Outpost
5 Sm, 5 Blk per Starbase
Colony: Varies
15 raw br, 25 raw sr from Collie Mining Colony - 15b/yr, 25s/yr - 25S 15B, handled as part of regular infrastructure
Apiata - 8S, 5b
50 raw br from Sguirri XI Mining Complex - 50b/yr, 1 Bumblebee (swapping Sm-0.5Bk) trip /month - Handled as part of regular infrastructure
Amarkia - 7s
13 Small, 1 Bulk Cargo
Apiata - 9 Small Cargo, 2 Bulk Cargo - Two Bumblebees atached
Amarkia - 7 Small Cargo
Total Available:
40 Small, 48 Bulk Cargo Capacity in regular Cargo/Freighter ships
48 Small, 12 Bulk Cargo Capacity in Bumblebees
36 Small, 46 Bulk Cargo Capacity in Amarkia
Assigned:
USS Yagok, USS Luna Maru - Upkeep
Bumblebee 3 (2 servicing Sguirri XI)
Starfleet Sector Infrastructure supporting GBZ
"Critical" - One of very few (or even only one) of its given type of infrastructure within Starfleet's control, the loss of which will cause major loss of function
"Key" - Important assets, the loss of which will impair functions for Starfleet
Unified Hives of the Apiata
2 Light Queenships
4 Stingers
2 Foragers
6 Bumblebees
4 Worker Bees
Indorian Congress
-
Rigel
-
Honiani
-
Member World Sector Infrastructure in GBZ
UE = United Earth
V = Vulcan High Command
A = Andorian Empire
T = Tellarite State Forces
M = Amarkian Confederacy
B = Betazoid Noble Houses
F = Caitians Grand Fleet
R = Rigel
P = Unified Hives of the Apiata
I = Indorian Congress
None as of Yet
========================================
Please provide an updated Fleet Distribution. The Council is undertaking that member world forces will be able to provide the requested 20C of forces to join the Ataami Defence Fleet.
[ ][FLEET] Fleet Distribution
The Council is preparing to render a final decision on providing Starfleet ship designs to the Tauni affiliates. They are requesting Starfleet's input on which designs should be considered off-limits for operational reasons, and which are acceptable to provide.
[ ][TAUNI] What ship designs are acceptable to provide
Please provide an updated Fleet Distribution. The Council is undertaking that member world forces will be able to provide the requested 20C of forces to join the Ataami Defence Fleet.
[ ][FLEET] Fleet Distribution