Remove ads

To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

Linked contents
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
Reader mode
Night said:
Not viable. The Tauni want our ship designs, like they want to join us, because they want to be better defended. Not sending them at least the Miranda-A would be downright insulting towards them.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Nix said:
They asked for cruisers, not frigates. Why should they be insulted by not being given something they never asked for?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

So here is the post where they talk about wanting designs.

As per a request from the Diplomatic Service, we have traveled to the Tauni homeworld to hold a technology summit. With the Tauni having only recently achieved independence, their technology and industrial base is rather a mess, and they are looking for ways to get on an even footing with the rest of the galaxy.

To this end, they have made the rather remarkable request for sharing of Starfleet designs to form the basis of a new fleet, upon which they will decommission their old, obsolete refit cruisers. The Diplomatic Service is extremely interested, but if the reaction of my Intelligence aide is anything to go by, I think the idea of handing out blueprints to a people who have been affiliates for all of a few months will be a tough sell. But we have promised to convey their requests up the chain.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

They do indeed mention cruisers specifically, but I don't think it's limited to that. Personally, I agree they don't get their hands on the Renaissance and I don't want to send them something obsolete with the Constitution-B, so the Constellation-A is a fine choice. You'll note I also suggest the Patroller-A as an ulta-cheap, but reaonsonable effective, system defense craft.

lbmaian said:
\
My only issues with it are that I think short-changing the LBZ may not be wise, since it now effectively covers diplomacy to 2 or 3 affiliates (Ked Paddah, Laio, maybe Tauni*) and the Licori.
I would hardly call an Excelsior, a Constitution-B, and an Oberth "short-changing". That's a damn fine response force.

That and I agree with SWB that the SBZ could replace the Miranda-A with a Centaur-A for Sydraxian diplomacy reasons.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I did make that change.

lbmaian said:
As I just stated before your post, can you find a way to put an extra diplomacy ship here? The LBZ is responsible for the Licori and 2 to 3 affiliates: Ked Paddah, Laio, and Tauni (if latter not already the responsibility of Rigel sector).
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I feel the ships on hand are adequate and make for a damn fine diplomatic combo.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
I remain leery of drawing down the GBZ, given that we still haven't had the expected big fight with the Cardassians, but I appreciate it might be tricky to fulfil the Ataami fleet requirements without doing so.

Nix said:
Note that the QM rated my post where I advocated against giving them designs we would fight a war with as insightful.

[X][TAUNI] May Provide Constellation-A, Oberth, and Patroller-A Designs
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

That's the point of an operational security vote, isn't it?

[X][TAUNI] May Provide Constellation-A, Oberth, and Patroller-A Designs
 
Deathbybunnies said:
I remain leery of drawing down the GBZ, given that we still haven't had the expected big fight with the Cardassians, but I appreciate it might be tricky to fulfil the Ataami fleet requirements without doing so.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

If it makes you feel in any better, we just last quarter sent the four Renaissances, and now we're drawing exactly that amount of combat power back out. It's really less a draw down than an equivalent exchange.
 
Just a reminder from the research results

Tauni 148/100 + 20 = 168/500
The ongoing negotiations between the Tauni and the Federation over use of Federation blueprints have been positive, if as yet inconclusive. However, it has provided a useful vehicle for the FDS to take the measure of Tauni society, and interact with it. Like many exploration-focused species, the Tauni have a very rich vein of sci-fi literature and entertainment, and the leading edge is starting to reach the orbits of our members and affiliates.


So I am going to say Constitution-A to give them an explorer design, Oberth for a science vessel either the Miranda base or refit for an escort and Constellation-A and maybe the Connie-B For cruisers. They should be over 200 after the remaining diplo pushes approaching 250 with good rolls and the annual roll next snakepit. At 400+ I can see releasing the Renissance for their use as prep work for joining the Federation.
 
Briefvoice said:
If it makes you feel in any better, we just last quarter sent the four Renaissances, and now we're drawing exactly that amount of combat power back out. It's really less a draw down than an equivalent exchange.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That does make me feel a bit better, yes. On a related note, when was the last time we got a Cardie GBZ force estimation?
 
I think the Oberth, Miranda-A, and Constitution-B would be fine.
Nix said:
Note that the QM rated my post where I advocated against giving them designs we would fight a war with as insightful.

[X][TAUNI] May Provide Constellation-A, Oberth, and Patroller-A Designs
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Hmm.

In that case, what about the Soyuz? :V

I'm only half joking.

New ones should perform well: it's only their age that lead to the instabilities.

[X][TAUNI] May Provide Constellation-A, Oberth, Soyuz, and Patroller-A Designs
 
By the way, these are the Patroller-A stats:

Patroller-A 2315-Now [371k t]
C2 S3 H1 L3 P2 D2
Cost [40br, 45sr, 2 Years], Crew [O-1, E-2, T-1]

Yes it's far inferior to a big modern combat frigate... but it's cheap and has low crew requirements. Perfect for a polity just trying to get back on its feet and needs more of a Coast Guard than a huge Navy. Not to mention that Science score isn't too shabby.

EDIT: Also you can build it in tiny 400kt berths!
 
Last edited:
Void Stalker said:
@OneirosTheWriter how does the Constitution-A compare to their current ships and would they be insulted if we sent that as an example of an explorer design.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Another thing to consider is whether they have the industrial and tech base to even jump all the way to an advanced cruiser design.

How advanced are they? Are they on the Laio level or are they on the Dawiar level?

Briefvoice said:
I feel the ships on hand are adequate and make for a damn fine diplomatic combo.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
My point is that this sector is probably more busy diplomatically than the likes of Rigel sector, just due to the number of affiliates and the Licori. And that furthermore, the KBZ now has effectively 6 ships there, including the Caldonian mission.

It's not a huge deal, but since my opinion differs, I'll suggest a slightly alternative proposal.
 
I went and looked up the last Cardassian GBZ force estimation. It was back in 2313.Q4, here it is if anyone's interested:
OneirosTheWriter said:
2 Kaldar
6~7 Jaldun
7~9 Escort Grade

Auxiliary
5? Cargo Ship
4? Freighter
1 Passenger
4? Engineer
3? Prospector
3? Colony Ship
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Going by the numbers for Cardassian ships listed at the start of the SDB, that's a force of 62C-74C back in 2313, assuming the Escorts are combat Takaakis (which may or may not be true, I'm not familiar with their Escort composition.)

They've been building at full tilt ever since. The upshot of this is that it's very likely we have less forces in the GBZ than the Cardassians at this point, which makes me uncomfortable. Even if they're wary of a hidden Nash.

EDIT: It also highlights that we could really use more up-to-date numbers, so I'm very glad we asked for a Cardassian Fleet Strength Report this year.
 
Last edited:
Deathbybunnies said:
I went and looked up the last Cardassian GBZ force estimation. It was back in 2313.Q4, here it is if anyone's interested:

Going by the numbers for Cardassian ships listed at the start of the SDB, that's a force of 62C-74C back in 2313, assuming the Escorts are combat Takaakis (which may or may not be true, I'm not familiar with their Escort composition.)

They've been building at full tilt ever since. The upshot of this is that it's very likely we have less forces in the GBZ than the Cardassians at this point, which makes me uncomfortable. Even if they're wary of a hidden Nash.

EDIT: It also highlights that we could really use more up-to-date numbers, so I'm very glad we asked for a Cardassian Fleet Strength Report this year.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
On this note, what's the total combat power of the Member World Fleets currently in the GBZ? That would probably help even the scoreboard in the event of a large-scale battle.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
I went and looked up the last Cardassian GBZ force estimation. It was back in 2313.Q4, here it is if anyone's interested:
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Except you're wrong, the last Cardassian GBZ force estimate was only one year ago in 2315.Q4.

Cardassian Strength Report (2315.Q4)
2 Kaldar
~10 Jaldun
2 Takaaki Sci
2 Isaamu
4~6 Takaaki Cmb
8 Cargo Ship
4 Freighter
2 Passenger
4 Engineer
4 Prospector
2 Colony Ship
Aranyak (Starbase)
67 Gabriel (Starbase, Defences)
?66 Gabriel (Outpost?) - Mining Colony
?77 Gabriel (Outpost?) - Mining Colony
?45 Gabriel (Outpost?) - Mining Colony
 
[X][TAUNI] May Provide Constellation-A, Oberth, and Patroller-A Design

[X][FLEET] 2317 Fleet Distribution without shortchanging the LBZ

The only difference from Briefvoice's version is that I shuffle a Centaur-A from the KBZ over to the LBZ.

Rationale: The LBZ covers 3 affiliates (Ked Paddah, Laio, Tauni) along with the Licori, so I consider this sector worthy of more "diplomacy ships" than the likes of Rigel sector. Meanwhile, the Klingon border is effectively staffed by both the KBZ and the Caldonian Peacekeeping Fleet - both fleets can handle any unexpected Klingon intrusions, while the KBZ is no longer on the hook for the Caldonians for the time being. Thus I can shuffle over a ship to the LBZ, while keeping the total Klingon border strength at 5 ships (22D), and retaining 4 ships in the LBZ (15D).

Fleet Strength Changes
2316.Q4 – 2 year Caldonian Peacekeeping Operation (D8) begins and 1 year Ataami Defense Operation (20C) begins.
2316.Q4 – (PROPOSED) Slightly draw down Gabriel Expanse by sending the Kumari, 2 Constitution-Bs and 1 Centaur-A to cover Ataami Defense Operations. Draw down Licori Border zone by 1 Constitution-B and 1 Constellation to cover Caldonian Peacekeeping Operations.
2317.Q1 – Tarrak [Excelsior in Ana Font Berth A] completes (Explorer Corps)
2317.Q1 – Pleezirra [Excelsior in SF Berth A] completes
2317.Q1 – Excelsior [Excelsior] goes into refit for Excelsior-A pattern
2317.Q1 – Lion completes refit as Miranda-A
2317.Q1 – Svai completes refit as Miranda-A
2317.Q1 – Dryad [Miranda] goes into refit
2317.Q1 – Calypso [Miranda] goes into refit
2317.Q2 – Renaissance [Ana Font Berth 1] completes
2317.Q3 – Challorn completes refit as Constellation-A
2317.Q3 – Sappho completes refit as Constellation-A
2317.Q3 – Kearsage [Constellation] goes into refit
2317.Q3 – Vigour [Constellation] goes into refit
2317.Q4 – Miranda-A [SF Berth 1] completes
2317.Q4 – Ataami Defense Operations ends. Kumari [Excelsior] Goes into refit. Other ships go to other sectors.

2316.Q3 = "Current".

Sol Sector – Requires D18
  • Current - 1 Excelsior (6) [Pathfinder], 1 Centaur-A (3) [Lightning], 2 Starbase I (10) [Earth, Betazed] = 19D
  • 2317.Q1 – No change
  • Notes: No change.
Vulcan Sector – Requires D10
  • Current – 1 Constellation (3) [Docana], 2 Miranda (4) [Dryad, Calypso], Starbase I (5) = 12D
  • 2317.Q1 – 1 Constellation (3) [Docana], 1 Miranda-A (2) [Lion], Starbase I (5) = 10D
  • Notes: In 2317.Q1 Dryad and Calypso go into refit, and are replaced by Lion.
Andor Sector – Requires D7
  • Current – 1 Constitution-B [Huascar], Starbase I (5) = 10D
  • 2317.Q1 – No change.
  • Notes: No change.
Tellar Sector – Requires D7
  • Current – 1 Constellation (3) [Vigour], Starbase I (5), Extra Outposts (5) = 13D.
  • 2317.Q3 – 1 Constellation-A (4) [Challorn], Starbase I (5), Extra Outposts (5) = 14D.
  • Notes: In 2317.Q3 Challorn arrives from refit, and Vigour goes into refit.
Amarkia Sector – Requires D7
  • Current - 1 Constellation (3) [Kearsage], 1 Centaur-A (3) [Zephyr] Starbase I (5), Extra Outposts (5) = 16D
  • 2317.Q1 - 1 Constellation (3) [Kearsage], 1 Miranda-A (2) [Svai], Starbase I (5), Extra Outposts (5) = 15D
  • 2317.Q3 - 1 Constellation-A (4) [Sappho], 1 Miranda-A (2) [Svai], Starbase I (5), Extra Outposts (5) = 16D
  • Notes: In 2317.Q1 Svai arrives from refit and Zephyr goes to Sydraxian Border Zone. In 2317.Q3 Sappho arrives from refit, Kearsage goes into refit.
Ferasa Sector – Requires D10
  • Current - 1 Excelsior-A (6) [Endurance], 1 Centaur-A (3) [Bull], Starbase I (5) = 14D
  • 2317.Q4 – 1 Excelsior-A (6) [Endurance], 1 Constitution-B (5) [Defiant], 1 Centaur-A (3) [Bull], Starbase I (5) = 19D
  • Notes: Defiant arrives in 2317.Q4.
Rigel Sector – Requires D7
  • Current – 1 Excelsior (6) [Avandar], 1 Constellation (3) [Selaya], Starbase I (5) = 14D
  • 2317.Q4 – 1 Excelsior (6) [Avandar], 1 Constitution-B (5) [Korolev], 1 Constellation (3) [Selaya], Starbase I (5) = 19D
  • Notes: Korolev arrives in 2317.Q4.
Apinae Sector – Requires D10
  • Current - 1 Constitution-B (5) [Valiant], 1 Centaur-A (3) [Yukikaze], Starbase I (5) [Grand Hive of Apinae], Extra Outposts [5] = 18D
  • 2317.Q2- 1 Constitution-B (5) [Valiant], 1 Centaur-A (3) [Yukikaze], 2 Starbase I (5) [Grand Hive of Apinae, Indorian Starbase], Extra Outposts [5] = 23D
  • Notes: Indorian Starbase completes in 2317.Q2
Romulan Border Zone – Requires D15
  • Current – 1 Excelsior (6) [Excelsior], 1 Centaur-A (3) [Cloudburst], 1 Oberth (1) [Inspire], Starbase I (5) = 15D
  • 2317.Q1 - 1 Excelsior (6) [Pleezirra], 1 Centaur-A (3) [Cloudburst], 1 Oberth (1) [Inspire], Starbase I (5) = 15D
  • 2317.Q2 - 1 Excelsior (6) [Pleezirra], 1 Centaur-A (3) [Typhoon], 1 Oberth (1) [Inspire], Starbase I (5) = 15D
  • 2317.Q4 - 1 Excelsior (6) [Pleezirra], 2 Centaur-A (6) [Typhoon, Winterwind], 1 Oberth (1) [Inspire], Starbase I (5) = 18D
  • Notes: In 2317.Q1, new Excelsior build Pleezirra in SF Berth A comes in and Excelsior goes into refit. In 2317.Q4, Winterwind arrives from Ataami Defense Operation. In 2317.Q2, shuffle over a Centaur-A from KBZ to RBZ to LBZ.
Klingon Border Zone – Requires D10
  • Current – 1 Excelsior (6) [Thirishar], 1 Centaur-A (3) [Typhoon], 1 Oberth (1) [Hawking] = D10
  • 2317.Q2- 1 Excelsior (6) [Thirishar], 1 Oberth (1) [Hawking], 1 Starbase I (5) = 12D
  • 2317.Q4 - 1 Excelsior (6) [Thirishar], 1 Miranda-A (2) [SF Berth 1], 1 Oberth (1) [Hawking], 1 Starbase I (5) = 14D
  • Notes: Starbase complete in 2317.Q2. New Miranda-A SF Berth 1 arrives in 2317.Q4. In 2317.Q2, shuffle over a Centaur-A from KBZ to RBZ to LBZ.
Cardassian Border Zone – Requires D12
  • Current - 1 Excelsior (6) [Salnas], 1 Oberth (1) [T'Mir], 1 Starbase I (5) [Lapycorias] = 12D
  • 2317.Q2 – 1 Excelsior (6) [Salnas], 1 Renaissance (5) [Ana Font Berth 1], 1 Oberth (1) [T'Mir], 1 Starbase I (5) [Lapycorias] = 17D
  • Notes: In 2317.Q2 Renaissance [Ana Font Berth 1] sent here after completion.
Sydraxian Border Zone – Requires D11
  • Current – 1 Constitution-A (5) [Cheron], 1 Centaur-A (3) [Gale], Starbase I (5) [Vega] = 13D
  • 2317.Q1 – 1 Constitution-A (5) [Cheron], 2 Centaur-A (6) [Gale, Zephyr], Starbase I (5) [Vega] = 16D
  • Notes: Zephyr arrives from Amarkia Sector in 2317.Q1.
Gabriel Border Zone – Requirement Left to Starfleet judgment
  • Current - 1 Excelsior-A (6) [Sojourner], 1 Excelsior (6) [Kumari], 5 Constitution-B (25) [Korolev, Defiant, Exeter, Saratoga, Republic], 4 Renaissance (20) [Renaissance, Epiphany, Enlightenment, Insight], 1 Centaur-A (3) [Winterwind], 11 Miranda-A (22) [T'Kumbra, Agile, Bantam, Clarion, Fidelity, Bon Vivant, Shield, Intrepid, Eketha, Eclipse, Firefly] = 95 C.
  • 2316.Q4 - 1 Excelsior-A (6) [Sojourner], 3 Constitution-B (15) [Exeter, Saratoga, Republic], 4 Renaissance (20) [Renaissance, Epiphany, Enlightenment, Insight], 11 Miranda-A (22) [T'Kumbra, Agile, Bantam, Clarion, Fidelity, Bon Vivant, Shield, Intrepid, Eketha, Eclipse, Firefly] = 75 C.
  • Notes: In 2316.Q4, take the Kumari, Korolev, Defiant, and the Winterwind out to Ataami Defense operations.
Licori Border Zone – Requires D11
  • Current – 1 Excelsior (6) [Rru'adorr], 2 Constitution-B (10) [Lexington, Hood], 1 Constellation (3) [Stalwart], 1 Oberth (1) [Torbriel] = 20D
  • 2317.Q1 - 1 Excelsior (6) [Rru'adorr], 1 Constitution-B (5) [Lexington], 1 Oberth (1) [Torbriel] = 12D
  • 2317.Q2 - 1 Excelsior (6) [Rru'adorr], 1 Centaur-A (3) [Cloudburst], 1 Constitution-B (5) [Lexington], 1 Oberth (1) [Torbriel] = 15D
  • Notes: Send Hood and Stalwart to Caldonian Peacekeeping Mission. In 2317.Q2, shuffle over a Centaur-A from KBZ to RBZ to LBZ.
Caldonian Peacekeeping Mission – Requires D8 from 2316.Q4 through 2318.Q3
  • Current – Nothing
  • 2316.Q4 - 1 Constitution-B (5) [Hood], 1 Constellation (3) [Stalwart] = D8
  • Notes: Sending Hood and Stalwart from Licori Border Zone.
Ataami Defense Operation – Requires 20C Starfleet from 2316.Q4 through 2317.Q3
  • Current – Nothing
  • 2316.Q4 – 1 Blooded Excelsior (7) [Kumari], 2 Constitution-B (10) [Korolev, Defiant], 1 Centaur-A (3) [Winterwind] = 20C
  • 2317.Q4 – Operations end, ships go to other sectors. Kumari goes into refit, Korolev goes to Rigel Sector, Defiant goes to Ferasa Sector, Winterwind goes to RBZ.


... Hope I didn't mess that up. This is a total pain.

edit: Tauni are definitely handled in the LBZ - Stalwart handled a diplo event with the Tauni in 2316.Q3.M1, so LBZ handles 3 affiliates plus the Licori.
 
Last edited:
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top