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Starfleet Ship Design Bureau ("To Boldly Go...")

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lbmaian said:
@OneirosTheWriter, what do you think of this proposed revision?
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It doesn't really gel with me - why would they produce the mother of all refits for one ship, then not apply it elsewhere?

The only way to fit the Cheron into the tech progression is by making a retcon or two, but a mega-refit for just one ship doesn't strike me as the way to do it.

Edit: And honestly I don't think that it requires Simon_Jester and Iron Wolf to change their omakes, or invalidates them. The hull weakness would still exist and be useful to explain what is going on.
 
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OneirosTheWriter said:
It doesn't really gel with me - why would they produce the mother of all refits for one ship, then not apply it elsewhere?

The only way to fit the Cheron into the tech progression is by making a retcon or two, but a mega-refit for just one ship doesn't strike me as the way to do it.
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Well it doesn't have to be one ship - several of the Constitutions could have been refitted as a stopgap until the Excelsior started proving its worth (i.e. post transwarp experiment Excelsior). Kinda like how our Constitution-B is a stopgap until the Renaissance.

This was my best attempt at avoiding the need to retcon quest story updates and omakes while still allowing space for Excelsior stat superiority and explaining why we're not continuing to build more Constitution-As.

If we go with the blooded Cheron approach, this really drives home how strong crew ratings are on smaller ships like the Constitution, or heck even ships like the Miranda. C6 S5 H5 L6 P4 D2 elite Miranda-As are terrifying compared to bog standard Miranda-As.

What do you think about the proposed Klingon K'tinga and Romulan BoP nerfs?
 
lbmaian said:
Also, while it's unreasonable to ask Simon Jester and Iron Wolf to change their Constitution-related omakes, These Old Bones and I can't Connie-Bee-lieve it, respectively, to fit this blooded Cheron retcon, I think you should change the description of the Constitution-B introduction to reflect this downgrade, so that the Constitution-B is a generally superior design with only one downside:
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Nothing in my omake really requires that the Constitution-A be treated as a superior ship compared to 2300-era designs. They're a good ship, they're a well-loved ship, they're superior to the Constellations... but that doesn't mean they have to be superships.

Furthermore, These Old Bones really just addresses why we can't simply dust off a bunch of Constitution-As that were in canon retired only a few years before our game start. That question would still need to be answered even if we retcon the Constitution-A statline downwards to 4/3/4/3/4/5 or whatever. Because a cruiser like that would still look pretty damn good to us today, if all we had to do in order to get it was scrape up a crew and spend a little while refurbishing it.
 
lbmaian said:
Well it doesn't have to be one ship - several of the Constitutions could have been refitted as a stopgap until the Excelsior started proving its worth (i.e. post transwarp experiment Excelsior). Kinda like how our Constitution-B is a stopgap until the Renaissance.

This was my best attempt at avoiding the need to retcon quest story updates and omakes while still allowing space for Excelsior stat superiority and explaining why we're not continuing to build more Constitution-As.

If we go with the blooded Cheron approach, this really drives home how strong crew ratings are on smaller ships like the Constitution, or heck even ships like the Miranda. C6 S5 H5 L6 P4 D2 elite Miranda-As are terrifying compared to bog standard Miranda-As.

What do you think about the proposed Klingon K'tinga and Romulan BoP nerfs?
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I've definitely been considering nerfing them. I think the D7 is about right, but the BoP should be nowhere near that durability in hindsight. I'd probably actually be more savage in my cuts on that, although I'll compensate Rommie fleet numbers a little to go with it. The K'tinga's durability does need to drop, though just how far is the question. Minimum -1 H+L.
 
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OneirosTheWriter said:
Possibility One (Non-Blooded Cheron)
Generation -3 (2220s-2240s)
Ranger C2 S2 H2 L1 P2 D2
Notional 23rd C Escort C2 S1 H1 L1 P1 D1
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You mean the Soyuz?

I tried to build a Soyez at Size 1 with Miranda Parts, and got C2, S1, H1, H1, P1, D2 for 45br/30sr at 445 kt. The largest issue is I could not get lower than D2 without pulling off the impulse drive. If I could have gone with one Nacelle, it would have been closer to stats and weight.
 
ClawClawBite said:
You mean the Soyuz?

I tried to build a Soyez at Size 1 with Miranda Parts, and got C2, S1, H1, H1, P1, D2 for 45br/30sr at 445 kt. The largest issue is I could not get lower than D2 without pulling off the impulse drive. If I could have gone with one Nacelle, it would have been closer to stats and weight.
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Older parts and worse parts should do the trick.

Our parts only go to T-1
 
@OneirosTheWriter, I think you have some minor errors in the new spreadsheet:

Secondary Phasers: weight is using wrong cell reference for "phaser array?"
Secondary Core: double SR discount by effectively multiplying by 0.25 twice - is this intended?
Backup Deflectors: double SR discount by effectively multiplying by 0.2 twice - is this intended?
EP Manifold: should be called "EPS Manifold" (see Plasma manifold)
 
Speaking of the electroplasma system, rewatching Yesterday's Enterprise recently reminded me of the giant-ass cables the War!Federation used instead of EPS conduits. Apparently they got sick of getting their crew fried by ship damage so easily or something. Could be modeled as a potential alternate component sometime mebbe?
 
aeqnai said:
Speaking of the electroplasma system, rewatching Yesterday's Enterprise recently reminded me of the giant-ass cables the War!Federation used instead of EPS conduits. Apparently they got sick of getting their crew fried by ship damage so easily or something. Could be modeled as a potential alternate component sometime mebbe?
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Safe EPS conduits and panels in Star Trek? What a ridiculous notion. Where's the drama when enemy fire overloads an EPS conduit and ... nobody gets killed?!
 
I'm thinking we could have a 'Build Quality' fudge factor that increases build time, but increases reliability and reduces weight?
 
Shard said:
I'm thinking we could have a 'Build Quality' fudge factor that increases build time, but increases reliability and reduces weight?
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How about getting the option to do your ship design research as a rush job, normal job, or thorough job? Affecting RP consumption, time taken to research, and also reliability?

Gives you an option for wartime panic designs, and also carefully planned out long-term plans.

Edit: Plus, I've been meaning to find a way to give new ways to consume RP and fix that little economy.
 
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OneirosTheWriter said:
How about getting the option to do your ship design research as a rush job, normal job, or thorough job? Affecting RP consumption, time taken to research, and also reliability?

Gives you an option for wartime panic designs, and also carefully planned out long-term plans.
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How about generalizing this so that research time is composed of two parts: the normal research time (research into incorporating never-used-yet parts, etc.), and a baking time that increases reliability by a set amount or percentage every year.
 











lbmaian said:
How about generalizing this so that research time is composed of two parts: the normal research time (research into incorporating never-used-yet parts, etc.), and a baking time that increases reliability by a set amount or percentage every year.
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*handwaggle*

Some thought and brainstorming into the best way to really represent the nuts and bolts part of ship design may be handy.
 
OneirosTheWriter said:
How about getting the option to do your ship design research as a rush job, normal job, or thorough job? Affecting RP consumption, time taken to research, and also reliability?

Gives you an option for wartime panic designs, and also carefully planned out long-term plans.

Edit: Plus, I've been meaning to find a way to give new ways to consume RP and fix that little economy.
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Possibly let us spend double RP on a tech to improve reliability of tech generated off it? So more rp/team spent on items we think are 'critical' or likely to see lots of use.
 
You may notice something unusual about the Constellation.

Yes, I'm very sorry to say that you've been lied to all this time. Shipyard Ops and Ship Design Bureau colluded to get the Constellation through Council by lying about it's weight. It was never 700k at that tech-base, because that would be plain old silly. Thankfully, in a post-scarcity society the shortfall can be snuck into place.

>.>

<.<
 
Give the redesign, it may make sense to swap out the Escort/Cruiser/Explorer tech trees with ship accessories tech trees. At least right now, Labs, Replicators & Entertainment don't fall into specific tech slots. If warp does not cover them, Power systems may also want to be swapped in.
 
ClawClawBite said:
Give the redesign, it may make sense to swap out the Escort/Cruiser/Explorer tech trees with ship accessories tech trees. At least right now, Labs, Replicators & Entertainment don't fall into specific tech slots. If warp does not cover them, Power systems may also want to be swapped in.
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Replicators are Personal Tech somewhere, Entertainment is also Personal Tech, but Labs definitely needs some tech nodes. Personal tech?
 
OneirosTheWriter said:
You may notice something unusual about the Constellation.

Yes, I'm very sorry to say that you've been lied to all this time. Shipyard Ops and Ship Design Bureau colluded to get the Constellation through Council by lying about it's weight. It was never 700k at that tech-base, because that would be plain old silly. Thankfully, in a post-scarcity society the shortfall can be snuck into place.

>.>

<.<
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Makes sense. Everyone that looks at the Constellation automatically ignores the parts that are an eyesore.

This unforeseen discrepancy was only discovered in the 2311 Risan Vacation incident where the USS Sappho made an unsanctioned water landing near a Risan beach resort, and a drunk inspired technician measured the displacement tonnage.
 
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