A reminder of how far we have come:

The first ship building post I can find:



Compared with the most recent:
Those resource and standard crew listings are a bit misleading because we actually had a substantial reserve back then and don't now. Income for resource and standard crew has increased by factors of around 4 or 5 I think.
So, some thoughts on the Shrantet starbase.

Does anyone else remember that Sulu himself didn't favor a starbase here 4 years ago? That strategically, a Tipperary starbase would make more sense?



Now, his opinion might have changed since 4 years ago. But the only realistic reason I can think of that would change his opinion would be that we intend to build a starbase at Caldonia in the future, and a Tipperary starbase would be too close to Caldonia as to make such a starbase inefficient.

So I'm fine if we vote (aka Sulu decides) to build a Shantet starbase, as long as commit to building a Caldonia starbase later.
And existing commitment to building a starbase there later (like at all home worlds) actually was our main reason for considering a starbase at Shrantet III at all, in the very post I suggested it I said that as sole starbase Tipperary would make more sense.
 
Maybe he just got outmaneuvered in the Council.

But yes, I think there's some hilarious irony here. I'm pretty sure that a Caldonia starbase has been the justification for a planned Shrantet starbase for a year or two now.

I'll note though that Caldonia isn't likely to stay in the Border Zone once ratified. I'd say chances are good we'd redraw the BZ to put them in Andor.
 
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I'll note though that Caldonia isn't likely to stay in the Border Zone once ratified. I'd say chances are good we'd redraw the BZ to put them in Andor.

I don't find that likely. It defeats part of the purpose of a border zone if it can't protect the worlds most in danger from an incursion from the actual border. Now, I could see the border zone being renamed the "Caldonia sector" yet still remain a border zone in all but name, including mechanically.

Indeed, I wonder whether Ferasa sector is already counting as a border zone mechanically, considering all the recent events there.
 
(Maximum Combat is a Soft cap, will gain +1 Militarisation per 5% of cap over - Each point of Threat Level adds 5% to Max Combat)
Holy crap

I dunno if anyone else noticed this yet, but this changes our effective combat drastically. 5% of our 350 max combat is 17.5 pts. With 6 more member ratifications expected in quick succession, and assuming no threat level change, our max combat would become 410. 5% of that is 20.5 pts.

Until this year, we got a point of militarization per 10 pts over the combat cap. For example, look at the 2315 snakepit:
(Maximum Combat is a Soft cap, will gain +1 Militarisation per 10 pts over - Each point of Threat Level adds 10 to Max Combat)

Assuming our max combat will be 410 (6 more members), threat level stays at 10, and our militarization remains at 0:

Max effective threat before our militarization > threat level:
Old: 410 + 10*10 = 510
New: 410 + 410*0.05*10 = 615

That's not counting all our combat cap discounts with our doctrinal tech.

So yeah, I'm not worried about hitting our combat cap for at least a decade. More if our rate of member ratifications continues (we're adding about 100 or so combat every half decade right now, and our member ratification rate will average about once per year).


edit: Other misc snakepit comments:
Sponsor efforts to create Heavy Industrial park to reduce construction times by 25% in that system when making either a parallel or serial build, provides Heavy Industry options pre-SoE, 115pp (pick world)
This is even better than I thought it would be. That combined with Sirvk's bonus and the remaining legacy of Chen's bonus means that the importance of getting new berths isn't as critical just yet.

Other than the new colony options and the engineering command option and a 5pp cost increase in Academy development (edit: and the intel gathering doubling of pp cost), I don't see any other changes in snakepit options nor in their costs.
 
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Soo looking at the leading vote, why isn't

  • UPDATED Acquire additional resources for Starfleet Intelligence Gathering, 70pp (Gain +1 Intel Report per year)
included?
 
Holy crap

I dunno if anyone else noticed this yet, but this changes our effective combat drastically. 5% of our 350 max combat is 17.5 pts. With 6 more member ratifications expected in quick succession, and assuming no threat level change, our max combat would become 410. 5% of that is 20.5 pts.

Until this year, we got a point of militarization per 10 pts over the combat cap. For example, look at the 2315 snakepit:


Assuming our max combat will be 410 (6 more members), threat level stays at 10, and our militarization remains remains at 0:

Max effective threat before our militarization > threat level:
Old: 410 + 10*10 = 510
New: 410 + 410*0.05*10 = 615
I hadn't noticed the the change before you pointed it out, but much more significant than the change to militarization is the change to the base effect of threat (mostly because actually going high enough to need to worry about militarization passing threat would be extremely undesirable).

The formula seems to have changed from 150 + (10 per Member) + (10 per Threat Point) to (150 + (10 per Member)) * (1 + (0.05 per Threat Point)) [the combat limit listed hasn't been recalculated yet but should be 375]. That means that with 16 members the base combat cap would be 310 and the threat adjusted combat cap at threat 10 should be 465. Whether the militarisation operates off the base combat cap or the threat adjusted combat cap is unclear, but either is better than in the old system.
 
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I hadn't noticed the the change before you pointed it out, but much more significant than the change to militarization is the change to the base effect of threat.

The formula seems to have changed from 150 + (10 per Member) + (10 per Threat Point) to (150 + (10 per Member) * (1 + 0.05 * Threat) [the combat limit listed hasn't been recalculated yet but should be 375]. That means that with 16 members the base combat cap would be 310 and the threat adjusted combat cap at threat 10 should be 465. Whether the militarisation operates off the base combat cap or the threat adjusted combat cap is unclear, but either is better than in the old system.

Oh you're right. I glossed over that second statement as a restatement of the first, but yeah, that's a change.

You assume the '350' does not already include some or all of the factors you mentioned.

The combat cap discounts I'm talking about are per ship. For ex, "Early Doctrine (Ships in Border Zones count for -1 Combat against Cap)" under the Border World Focus tech node. AFAIK, there are no technologies that directly change that total max combat number.

Additionally, we know how that max combat is calculated - see Nix's post.
 
We should logically be selecting some Militarization options while our Threat is high. In my opinion.

It is also my opinion that we should get more Intel Reports, say, by dropping Excelsior resource allocation and a Diplomacy Push.
 
The formula seems to have changed from 150 + (10 per Member) + (10 per Threat Point) to (150 + (10 per Member) * (1 + (0.05 per Threat Point)) [the combat limit listed hasn't been recalculated yet but should be 375].

Actually the statement "Each point of Threat Level adds 5% to Max Combat" is ambiguous. It could either mean:

150 + members * 10 * (1 + threat_level * 0.05)
=> 150 + 10 * 10 * (1 + 10 * 0.05) = 300

OR (and this makes more sense to me)

(150 + members * 10) * (1 + threat_level * 0.05)
=> (150 + 10 * 10) * (1 + 10 * 0.05) = 375

The way you have your parenthesis is the 1st interpretation, but the 375 number you arrived at requires the 2nd interpretation.
 
Actually the statement "Each point of Threat Level adds 5% to Max Combat" is ambiguous. It could either mean:

150 + members * 10 * (1 + threat_level * 0.05)
=> 150 + 10 * 10 * (1 + 10 * 0.05) = 300

OR (and this makes more sense to me)

(150 + members * 10) * (1 + threat_level * 0.05)
=> (150 + 10 * 10) * (1 + 10 * 0.05) = 375

The way you have your parenthesis is the 1st interpretation, but the 375 number you arrived at requires the 2nd interpretation.
And - if I understood the discussions in the thread correctly, with better and better components that are not weapons, the combat value is increasing. Wouldn't that meant that the '150' needs to (should) be updated depending on available technology?
 
And - if I understood the discussions in the thread correctly, with better and better components that are not weapons, the combat value is increasing. Wouldn't that meant that the '150' needs to (should) be updated depending on available technology?
That 150 is just the base value established in 2313:
[New Combat Cap Formula to account for increased scale: 150 + (10 per Member) + (10 per Threat Point) = 350]
AFAIK, it's not based on tech at all, and is instead based on Oneiros' whim.
 
The way you have your parenthesis is the 1st interpretation, but the 375 number you arrived at requires the 2nd interpretation.
The parentheses didn't actually match, and you can fix them to fit either interpretation, so why would you think I might have meant the first (which doesn't make any sense at all, and would require a completely redundant pair of parentheses around the entire term)?

Sure, as is the tech-tree and the abstracted ship stats. So, imho, it would make sense to update also the arbitrary number based on tech improvements.
It's actually based on council decisions/rewards, more or less. Before the formula was revised there used to be a base of 50, which was raised by 30 as council reward when we fulfilled the request for Oberths, then by another 90 100 in response to the Biophage crisis, and another 20 when the Amarki joined. When the formula was revised some of the intial 50 was presumably reinterpreted as being based on the initial 4 members, and likewise some of the bonus for the Amarki. That leaves 10 points that came from nowhere in particular, presumably to make it a rounder number.
 
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That took a crazy long time to catch up on...

Soo, now that you're back, care to comment on the various questions raised? Got details on the Survey Sensors and how refittable they will be for the Kepler? The various inconsistencies in the research tree raised a few pages ago?

Just as long as we don't let the seamstress find out and blab to her non existent superiors in the Tal Shiar about our non existent spec ops forces.

What? Who are you talking about? There is no Seamstress, and she's certainly not listening in or standing behind me.
 
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@OneirosTheWriter, questions, feedback, and a correction:

Member World Assets in Sector

United Earth Space Probe Agency
-

Vulcan High Command
-

Andor Guard
-

Tellarite State Forces
-

Amarki Confederacy Fleet
1 Riala
2 Hebrinda-A
1 Centaur-A
2 Brieca
2 Calac

3 Cargo, 2 Freighter, 1 Colony+Engineer+Prospector+Passenger
1 Super-Freighter

Betazoid Defence Force
-

Caitian Grand Fleet
-

Unified Hives of the Apiata
2 Light Queenships
4 Stingers
2 Foragers

6 Bumblebees
4 Worker Bees

Indorian Congress
-

Rigel
-

Honiani
-

Member World Sector Infrastructure in GBZ

UE = United Earth
V = Vulcan High Command
A = Andorian Empire
T = Tellarite State Forces
M = Amarkian Confederacy
B = Betazoid Noble Houses
F = Caitians Grand Fleet
R = Rigel
P = Unified Hives of the Apiata
I = Indorian Congress

None as of Yet
This section is out of date again, with the Caitians forces not mentioned.

TBH, I find this "Member World Assets" section completely redundant with the "Assets" section - you should just remove it.

Yrillians 345/100 - Affiliate Membership Internally + Externally Obstructed, but lines of dialogue opened
This should be 355/100:
2315.Q4 Well, They Try:
Continued Diplomatic Push

Yrillians 308/100 + 12 = 320/300
2315.Q4.M2 Captain's Log:
Captain's Log, USS Cheron, Stardate 25821.7

Passing cargo ships are reported a standoff between two Yrillian carryall not far from the border by Vega, and we responded. After discovering that there was an inter-clan dispute that was devolving quickly, we offered to mediate for them, and were able to successfully bring about an amicable resolution.

[Gain +10pp, +25 with Yrillians]
2316.Q1 Shipyard Ops Results:
Yrillians 320/100 + 10 = 330/100
(the 320 is wrong here given the above +25, but the +10 should still be valid)

308 + 12 + 25 + 10 = 355

Sydraxians [In flux]/100
Hmm, will the new value take into account our previous +25 last quarter?
[Gain +25 relations with Sydraxians]

Request new Starbase I [Write in Sector] 15pp for home sectors or CBZ , 25pp for KBZ, +12pp for each Starbase past the first in-sector - GBZ Invalid
Are we allowed to build starbases in the other border zones not mentioned here: RBZ, SBZ, LBZ? If so, do they also cost 15pp?

Sponsor efforts to create Heavy Industrial park to reduce construction times by 25% in that system when making either a parallel or serial build, provides Heavy Industry options pre-SoE, 115pp (pick world)
Lots of questions on details:

1) Does the 25% build time reduction apply to refits?

2) Does the 25% build time reduction apply to repairs?

3) If (remaining) build/(refit/repair) time is less than a year, does the 25% build time reduction apply?

4) Will this stack with Chen's bonus for existing parallel builds (only relevant for the Excelsior and Ambassador prototype builds currently in UP)?

5) When will the Heavy Industrial Park be finished?

6) Will the 25% reduction apply on any current builds, or only on new builds after the Heavy Industrial Park is built?
For ex, supposing the HIP is complete in 2317.Q2, that would be after any Q1-commenced builds - would those builds benefit from the 25% build time reduction?
We also have a lone Miranda-A scheduled with ETC 2317.Q3, so it would have 6 months of remaining build time with the HIP operational - would it instead have a ceil(6*0.75)=5 month of remaining build time?

7) Will the Heavy Industrial Park help UESPA builds in their Luna shipyard?

Vice Admiral Sirvk: -1Qtr to build times of all Capital grade ships
To repeat Briefvoice's questions, do these apply to existing builds or just new builds when he takes office in Q3? I know you said that his bonus won't apply for the Ambassador prototypes, but what about the lone Excelsior builds in Ana Font 2.5mt-A and SF 3mt-A (the one bumped from UP 3mt-B)?

Admiral Sulu: Allows an Intelligence Op interrupt on all major crises.
Vice Admiral Uhura: +1 to all non-EC diplomacy rolls, +2 to Xenopsychology research
Just to confirm, these new admiral bonuses mean we no longer get their annual pp bonuses, right?

Sulu used to give +2pp/yr per active FYM (totaled 12pp last year), while Uhura used to give +2pp/yr:
A legend and a hero of the Federation, Sulu needs no introduction. Gain +2 pp per active FYM.
(Gain +3 to Comms research, gain +2pp)

(Aside: I forgot to remove Viraan zh'Dohlen's annual 10pp bonus in 2315 after she was promoted from EC commander to a theater command, so we got 10 extra pp. But on the other hand, that helps compensate for previous discrepancies.)
 
Something like this?

- Cardassian Fleet Strength
- Romulan Fleet Strength
- ISC Diplomatic Posture
- Dawiar Diplomatic Posture
- Yrillian Diplomatic Posture
- Klingon/Romulan War Update
- One of Cardy Shipyard, Cardy Tactics, a ship report, or a GBZ report

Cardassian Shipyard Report would be necessary next year in this conception.

I suppose it's not critical, but we never have gotten a report on the Klingon Bird of Prey M2. It would be nice to know how strong they are. A minor upgrade on the old version, or a real modern frigate?
 
I wouldn't be surprised if Oneirosthewriter suddenly revealed that the research station that got stuck in time had a team working on Station repair on the side without letting anyone know about it.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if Oneirosthewriter suddenly revealed that the research station that got stuck in time had a team working on Station repair on the side without letting anyone know about it.
Given that they founded Office 0, and that info was provided by its agents two years before it was founded, I take that bet and raise a 'researched temporal mechanics'.
 
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