On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.
I think there are some pretty significant benefits to setting an action aside on T25 and the opportunity cost of doing so is marginal. My reasoning is as follows:
We know for a fact we've overspent on overflow and ended up with action wastage at least once. It can't have been on the tunneling project, because Soul spelled out what the gains per action invested were on that occasion. That leaves trollslayer as the obvious prime suspect for what the overkilled project might have been, because it's our biggest expenditure to date (1 action to complete, 6 actions invested). I'm confident there was room to find some budget savings there without meaningfully reducing the quality of the final product. 3 actions on the armour would result in putting almost as much work into it as Snorri did on the axe (5 effective actions invested) and I think the benefits of a sixth action into the armour would be extremely modest if they exist at all. I've not really seen anything to suggest the armour can absorb more overflow than another 1-action project could.
Speeding up the dragonblood investigation has benefits over and above what Snorri might personally learn from it. The junior bros are currently locked out of adamant smelters and won't get access to the blueprints until the senior bros' concerns about the blood have been addressed, so a quicker finish will mean the new adamant production method can be adopted earlier. It would also hopefully cut the operating costs of any senior bros who might have built their smelters already but are currently changing oil on them every decade. Cutting time of delivery by even one turn will mean a pretty significant increase in the total amount of adamant in dwarf hands, I think.
Additionally, I believe Snorri contributing to the research rather than letting Gorra autocomplete it for him has benefits in itself. Fostering a more collaborative attitude among runesmiths has been a recurring topic itt and I think Snorri can contribute to that goal, in a small way, by actively involving himself in projects other runesmiths are taking the lead on instead of having each smith pick their own jobs and completing them off on their lonesome. Besides, having more than one runelord working on this thing would spread out culpability in elder Moira's eyes and she might not hit Snorri as much with her pan if she's forced to operate in a target rich environment
Finally, T25 would be years 21-30 of Karen's and Nate's apprenticeships and I kinda don't want Snorri to make himself indisposed for a whole decade so early after recruiting them. Not that I think Soul would punish us by making them pick up a bunch of bad habits from unsupervised practice, you understand, but it's a pretty critical period in their education and I'd prefer if Snorri stuck his nose outside his workshop occasionally right now. One or both of them might well be ready for their first real rune towards the end of the decade and it would suck if they had to go back to standard practice anyway because Snorri still hadn't emerged from his man cave.
The reasons I think it could absorb more overflow than Trollslayer has to do with it having a comparable or better combo, being made out of Adamant, the Heart, and Snorri's greater skill with Rune Metal because he's further down that research tree. Put those together and we have at least three reasons it has a better baseline than Trollslayer did. I do think out of everything Trollslayer was where we could have cut the fat without damaging the final product's tier, I agree with that assessment, but I don't think it applies here because of where our Armor's baseline is sitting.
In my mind T5s are the devotion of a smith, their greatest works, and because of that when attempting to reach such a tier from a good baseline it has a much deeper capacity we can put actions into. Just from like a narrative logic perspective, it makes sense to me for the process of trying to make a T5 to be able to accept all of our efforts.
I'm also kind of, of the perspective that if we put in all our spare effort and it doesn't come out a T5 then we at least have the consolation of knowing we did try with all of our effort. It is a gamble after all. Now on the other hand of this we could spend time on the dragonblood and get that done quicker, having it come out on turn 26 instead and starting the dissemination process a turn earlier and thus the process to wider Adamant production for the Karaz Ankor.
Your final two points I'm not really going to contest anything except part of the apprentice one, in that it was the start of turn 23 that we got Fjolla and Dolgi's specialties, and they got good enough for Apprentice Work to unlock. It opened up with us watching them inscribe various runes and through that finding their specialties. I have some fondness for a narrative line of Snorri watching them inscribe their first runes then being all elder dwarf huffy about it and then going into seclusion to make his armor while leaving them a sort of package of riddles and life lessons to decipher while they hear him work on his armor and get to watch Fjolla and Dolgi be as mystified as to what specifically he's up to, but also somewhat smug because they've seen him do this sort of thing before.
The reasons I think it could absorb more overflow than Trollslayer has to do with it having a comparable or better combo, being made out of Adamant, the Heart, and Snorri's greater skill with Rune Metal because he's further down that research tree. Put those together and we have at least three reasons it has a better baseline than Trollslayer did. I do think out of everything Trollslayer was where we could have cut the fat without damaging the final product's tier, I agree with that assessment, but I don't think it applies here because of where our Armor's baseline is sitting.
In my mind T5s are the devotion of a smith, their greatest works, and because of that when attempting to reach such a tier from a good baseline it has a much deeper capacity we can put actions into. Just from like a narrative logic perspective, it makes sense to me for the process of trying to make a T5 to be able to accept all of our efforts.
I'm also kind of, of the perspective that if we put in all our spare effort and it doesn't come out a T5 then we at least have the consolation of knowing we did try with all of our effort. It is a gamble after all. Now on the other hand of this we could spend time on the dragonblood and get that done quicker, having it come out on turn 26 instead and starting the dissemination process a turn earlier and thus the process to wider Adamant production for the Karaz Ankor.
Your final two points I'm not really going to contest anything except part of the apprentice one, in that it was the start of turn 23 that we got Fjolla and Dolgi's specialties, and they got good enough for Apprentice Work to unlock. It opened up with us watching them inscribe the runes and through that finding their specialties. I have some fondness for a narrative line of Snorri watching them inscribe their first runes then being all elder dwarf huffy about it and then going into seclusion to make his armor while leaving them a sort of package of riddles and life lessons to decipher while they hear him work on his armor and get to watch Fjolla and Dolgi be as mystified as to what specifically he's up to, but also somewhat smug because they've seen him do this sort of thing before.
Trollslayer probably wasted a couple of actions but I think we did get a couple extra bits out of it. Kraggi noticed it was extra pure and that led to the brotherhood invite.
Actually, looking back at that turn, we got +1 on rune metal out of it as well so it's kinda like we got a free action out of it. So in more recent turns it'd be like the KoTS armor where we put 3+2 actions into it with one left to do something else. If four actions into the armor gets us rune metal or any other research progress out of it then it'd even out.
Trollslayer probably wasted a couple of actions but I think we did get a couple extra bits out of it. Kraggi noticed it was extra pure and that led to the brotherhood invite.
Actually, looking back at that turn, we got +1 on rune metal out of it as well so it's kinda like we got a free action out of it. So in more recent turns it'd be like the KoTS armor where we put 3+2 actions into it with one left to do something else. If four actions into the armor gets us rune metal or any other research progress out of it then it'd even out.
I know that it got us the brotherhood invite, it also very heavily influenced Otrek's coronation because it was so amazing as well as the political climate of Kraka Drakk, and the combo came out more powerful than Snorri expected.
AN: welp you've drastically shifted the political climate of Kraka Drakk and installed a king who believes strongly in the strength of Runes and your character especially. King Otrek's actions will be seen across the hold and region.
As for the Trollslayer itself you've made a T4 weapon of great prestige and power. Something on par with the Axe of Dargo, which while not on the level of Gal Maraz or the Widowmaker is a weapon that will be known throughout the Karaz Ankor at the very least.
Impressed, surprised, and relieved, to see the armor form a Rune Combo. Still wondering what Might instead or Fortitude would do, but this is good, this is very good.
I've been eagerly anticipating combining MGrimnir, Daemonslaying, and perhaps Fear or Dismay to see if it's possible to make Daemons feel fear. ((Another possible thought was Grudges maybe. Because Grimnir headed out to forever fight Daemons, and because Snorri hates daemons, Khornate daemons especially. But I'm stuck between doubling-down on combining Chaosbane trait with a Fear/Dismay effect on the axe in the hopes of finally being able to make Daemons feel fear, or making a very anti-Daemon axe and hoping that the combo of "Snorri has Chaosbane" plus "This axe is very anti-Daemon" naturally combines...))
Positively jumping for joy at said idea, really.
I've double especially been anticipating this idea, since the armor with the Master Rune of Unyielding came into play as well; because it's an armor that can help you fight forever, so therefore it would be a perfect and awesome match to a weapon rune like Grimnir's that makes you fight until you or the enemy is dead.
The only problem I've been having, is wondering what 3rd (or 4th) item to make to round out that Doomslayer theming we've got going.
... Actually... now that I said it like that... One of the aspects of said theming (other than rage and killing power and an eternal fight of course) is that of intimidation. So. What about a Banner (Cloak) or Talisman that is about causing fear?
1: bear Grimnir's fierce war mien axe
2: wear an immortal, eternal bulwark armor
3: be terrifying to enemies.
Possibilities for #4: be inspirational to allies. Or shelter and defend your allies. Or... challenge the enemy, forcing him to fight. MChallenge Talisman...
That seems like it would form a set bonus. ((An Anvil of Doom would be perfect here, actually. Why? Because it's a way to counter spellcasting! That way you wouldn't even need a banner or talisman reserved for anti-magic... because you would be doing it yourself. Alternatively... You Are A Runesmith. You are the anti-magic.))
Yes, I am liking this thought...
An axe to make you fight to the death. An armor to make you undying, so that that end never comes. Something to make you terrifying to the enemies. And something to make you inspirational to your allies, improving their martial prowess, possibly while making them appear swole and scary as fuck. (Or maybe instead something to shelter your allies perhaps. Not just from magic, though. But for things in general. A defensive thing.)
Or maybe something to force the enemy to have to engage you -- wouldn't that be a kick in the jaw for them? Your enemy will fight to the death; your enemy cannot die; your enemy is terrifying; you have to fight him nevertheless. Catch them in a Catch-22. And if they run away, well... there goes the enemy morale.
Trouble is, the Banner and Talisman ideas are all inter-related and inter-connected. There's the question of what set of effects you want; the question of if "Taunt enemy into attacking you" + "Scare the enemy away" is synergetic or non-synergetic (I can see it either working great, or clashing a bit. If the former, it's because 'if the enemy refuses to fight you, that will tank their morale.')
I've had several thoughts on a cool banner, that's based around several semi-related ideas or ways to get things done. >< There's the idea of combining MTaunting + Slowness, for the obvious result of "Make the enemy charge at you; and make them regret that, by screwing over their charge." It's just... it's just such a deliciously trolly thing to do, you know? Not sure what third rune to add. It needs to be something that continues the idea of "make them regret getting into melee with us." Which can be accomplished by either punishing attacks, or making the dwarfs
There's the idea of combining Grimnir and Fear/Dismay; channeling the idea of Grimnir to make the Dwarfs fight like hell, and be scary as hell. MGrimnir + Fear + (Battle?), or MFear + Grimnir + (Battle?). I am actually currently favoring this idea (despite the innate hilarious comedy of the MTaunting + Slowness idea) because "The Master Rune imbues Valiant Grimnir's endurance, will and martial prowess to all under its aegis." + "Forces fighting under this Rune will appear larger, more dangerous, enemies facing them will feel a current of fear facing them." sound like a great combination. Drawing upon Grimnir's bearing and martial prowess, to boost and give credence to the "appear terrifying by striding the battlefield like a colossus" effect.
There's a Banner Master Rune (Fear) that can make your army look big and scary. "Forces fighting under this Rune will appear larger, more dangerous, enemies facing them will feel a current of fear facing them."
There's a Banner Master Rune (Taunting) to taunt the enemy; forcing them to attack you in a fury, and thus lose some fighting skill. "Forces with this Rune will enrage the enemy into attacking them, their foes losing some of their prowess in the throws of their fury."
There's a Banner Master Rune to make your people Fight Like Grimnir. "The Master Rune imbues Valiant Grimnir's endurance, will and martial prowess to all under its aegis."
There's a Banner normal Rune (Slowness) to force the enemy to slow down in their approach. (Excel sheet detailed rune list: "creates a barrier by drawing on dwarven stubbornness")
There's a Talisman Master Rune to Challenge the enemy; "The enemy who hears the wearer of this Rune challenge them must face them or flee." (Sounds like a duel-of-the-champions thing. And if they refuse... well. The champion's, and thus the army's, morale would really suffer.)
There's a Talisman Master Rune of Dismay, to directly hit your enemy's morale, to intimidate your enemy. "The user emits an aura or wave that saps the wills of his foes."
So, given all those tools... What is the best result or intent to aim for? And how best to achieve it?
So the Banner MFear is about making your guys appear big and scary; while the Talisman MDismay is about directly inflicting fear/morale/willpower/discipline damage on the enemy. These are two different effects (i.e. "your guys are scary" versus "the enemy's discipline/morale is sapped"), and which thus would go great together. But it does mean you're using both a Banner and a Talisman to get the same intended effect. Do you double down on an effect? Or do you spread out the amount of things your magic items do and situations they cover?
And another question is... Do you want MFear + Grimnir + 3rd, or MGrimnir + Fear + 3rd? Do you want to emphasize the intimidating nature of your army, or the martial prowess of your army?
And finally... the Talisman's MChallenge. If the enemy champion refuses to fight, or fights but loses, then the morale damage to them is great of course. But... Do you combine it with Banner MTaunting, concentrating on the effects of "force the enemy to engage in a fight"? Or do you combine it with MFear, concentrating on the effects of terrifying the enemy? If the latter, then... would MFear interfere with the enemy accepting the challenge? (Though at least if he does that, that hits his morale, so...)
If you take Banner MTaunting + Slowness, would a Talisman MDismay by productive or counter-productive? On the one hand, "inspire anger and thus make them charge" plus "sap the will of foes" might work beautifully; you attack the discipline and willpower of the enemy, and make them enraged and charge stupidly. On the other hand... "inspire anger and make them charge" plus "make them dismayed" might work at odds; anger being dulled by dismay.
Hmm...
Put like that, I think... despite the fact how much I love the MTaunt + Slowness combo (we totally should make a Banner with that though), I think the angle of approach to take would be... Banner: MGrimnir + Fear + battle and Talisman: MDismay. The Banner would make your army fight like hell and be somewhat scary. The Talisman, meanwhile, would sap the will of the enemy. MGrimnir + Fear is not as effective at intimidating as MFear + Grimnir, but that's why you use MDismay on a Talisman.
((Of course, another amusing angle to take would be grabbing that Dismay rune and putting it on a Banner instead, as a normal rune... Thus giving you a banner of: Fight Like Grimnir, Appear Big And Scary, and Sap The Enemy's Will.))
((... Or Taunting + Dismay + Slowness. Heh. Get them mad enough to charge, sap their will to make them more likely to fall to fury, and make them move through molasses when they do charge.))
All of the above ideas, of course, all center on morale and martial prowess and demoralizing the enemy. None of them are aimed at the topic of providing physical or magical defense.
So. There's a whole aspect of fighting that isn't covered there. The defensive and protective parts. Or the buffing parts, since MGrimnir is the only buff... though it is a good one.
In other words, all the above questions and doubts and "What to do? How to combine items?" doesn't even begin to cover the topic of "How to protect or buff?" So as much questioning and fretting about how-to-do-thing there is in the above, there's still a whole bunch of questions and approaches to ask and take... ><
Anyone remember what Rune of Smednir would do? I think I remember a chapter stating that its what bridges the gap between engineering and runesmithing.
Smednir as shaper of Ore and crafter of great works. On talismans, it would make your work better or would it be the knowledge that you're bearing his Rune make you work better? As a weapon Rune, the interpretation could be that it abhors lesser or shoddy craft. Snorri would note that the Master Rune of Breaking shares some very base parts or aspects with the Rune of Smednir.
"As a weapon Rune, the interpretation could be that it abhors lesser or shoddy craft"
"Snorri would note that the Master Rune of Breaking shares some very base parts or aspects with the Rune of Smednir"
MBreaking + Smednir (+ Might?) = "BY THE POWER OF SMEDNIR, BE BROKEN" ? (Could be redundant or unnecessary, if MBreaking already draws on Smednir, so... ... Maybe Might + Smednir + Fury. Hmm.)
(Hmm... I wonder if there's a way to get that "the interpretation could be that it abhors lesser or shoddy craft" idea applied to magic... Grungni, Smednir, and Spellbreaking perhaps?)
Wait. I wonder what'd happen if you combined the MPurification rune with Smednir or Thungni? ... Thungni is the Ancestor God of runesmithing... And the Master Rune of Purification was a breakthrough in runesmithing for us... ... On the other hand, said breakthrough came in the form of a metal discovery, so Smednir would also not be out of place...
(Hmm... I wonder if there's a way to get that "the interpretation could be that it abhors lesser or shoddy craft" idea applied to magic... Grungni, Smednir, and Spellbreaking perhaps?)
Wait. I wonder what'd happen if you combined the MPurification rune with Smednir or Grungni? ... Grungni is the Ancestor God of runesmithing... And the Master Rune of Purification was a breakthrough in runesmithing for us... ... On the other hand, said breakthrough came in the form of a metal discovery, so Smednir would also not be out of place...
That's an interesting idea. How about MPurification, spellbreaking, spite. Break down demons and use their warpy stuff to rebound and empower the next hit.
My goal has been "cover all our defensive bases", Mgrimnir is hopefully going to be an anti-hero unit weapon. For the other items, I'm looking at a mobility enhancing amulet, or maybe circle back to that mental defense amulet.
MBreaking + Smednir (+ Might?) = "BY THE POWER OF SMEDNIR, BE BROKEN" ? (Could be redundant or unnecessary, if MBreaking already draws on Smednir, so... ... Maybe Might + Smednir + Fury. Hmm.)
Oh good lord, how did I miss this. A chance to use one of the two remaining Ancestor's runes; and make a MBreaking axe for the hold to have when they need it? This is going on my project list for certain.
MBreaking + Smednir (+ Might?) = "BY THE POWER OF SMEDNIR, BE BROKEN" ? (Could be redundant or unnecessary, if MBreaking already draws on Smednir, so... ... Maybe Might + Smednir + Fury. Hmm.)
... Grungni is the Ancestor God of runesmithing... And the Master Rune of Purification was a breakthrough in runesmithing for us... ... On the other hand, said breakthrough came in the form of a metal discovery, so Smednir would also not be out of place...
Personally want to make an ax with the purifying rune, demonslaying, and fire or if we can make a rune of severing for an ax of i cut and purify this thing from the world.
Hm, so screwing up a 4 rune item... Well, this is no screwing up there. It'll alway fails. But it will always fail and with kinda predictable effects.
So if somebody can come up with a way to remotely runeforge a 4 (5?) rune item we could end up with reliable rune bomb. Sadly I'm not sure I have good ideas for it. For example I do not think the words disposable and gronti can ever be entertained as joined concept so no setting up a gronti to finish a 4 rune object upon reaching a designated spot.
Maybe as part of a big trap...
Hm, so screwing up a 4 rune item... Well, this is no screwing up there. It'll alway fails. But it will always fail and with kinda predictable effects.
So if somebody can come up with a way to remotely runeforge a 4 (5?) rune item we could end up with reliable rune bomb. Sadly I'm not sure I have good ideas for it. For example I do not think the words disposable and gronti can ever be entertained as joined concept so no setting up a gronti to finish a 4 rune object upon reaching a designated spot.
Maybe as part of a big trap...
If a lot of the above looks circular and repetitive, retreading the same ground a lot... that's because it is. A stream-of-consciousness sort of thing.
Lotta the time, when it comes to trying to tackle a problem, come up with things, or thinking about things... what ends up happening is I just take an idea or tool and apply it again and again and again. So that ends up manifesting as either going "Can we use X Rune to do C?" "To do D?" "To do E?" Taking one new thing (or an old thing) and then applying it to every single damn situation or problem; hammer and nails, basically. The other way it can end up manifesting, is by trying to figure out how to do-a-thing using slightly different variants and applications of thing-you-have. So it becomes... "Can we do C by using X?" "What about using Y?" "What about using Z?"
But sometimes its necessary or helpful. And, doing it or saying it, might eventually result in me coming to a conclusion (or just noticing or thinking of the Next Shiny Idea Idea To Be Enthusiastic About). So with that said... I think the approach of item sets I want is something like this:
*MGrimnir axe, to fight to the end, and make Daemons hear Doom and Skyrim (One They Fear) music (This is the thing I want most)
*The armor, to make that end never come
*An item to terrify the enemy, to appear fearsome and scary as hell
*An item to shield, protect, or buff, the throng
But, a lot of the questions and specifics remain and aren't fully settled down. >< Argh.
My goal has been "cover all our defensive bases", Mgrimnir is hopefully going to be an anti-hero unit weapon. For the other items, I'm looking at a mobility enhancing amulet, or maybe circle back to that mental defense amulet.
I gotta be perfectly honest, I love the MGrimnir weapon rune for two things:
1. Ever since I saw both Unyielding and MGrimnir, I went "That's perfect!" A weapon to make you fight forever, and an armor to make you fight forever. That is a perfect combination.
2. Grimnir has the story of striding into the waste, in order to stalemate Chaos forever. Thus, the name of Grimnir develops a mystique or theme around it, of thwarting Chaos... and of fighting daemons forever. And Snorri has the Chaosbane trait. When I saw those things together, I went "I want to see if we can make Daemons feel fear."
I really want both of these things. So therefore, that means I want the axe to draw on that... that mythos. Of facing the Daemon eternally. Of facing and fighting the foes of the Dawi eternally, in general.
So in my eyes, the MGrimnir weapon is for connecting to the "you can keep standing forever" aspect of the armor, and of fulfilling the daemon-fighting aspect.
It's not just about covering all your bases. It's about... About achieving a mythos or narrative. I don't want to just make something that is 'good and serviceable.' I want something to make a statement, to make a legend, to tell a story.
To hit a story beat or achieve a character archetype or what have you.
Something that ties together. Ideally a set of items that come together. That's why the asterisk'd list of four things in the upper half of this post, you have items for "intimidate the enemy" and "shield and empower the throng." Because it is an attempt to make everything come together in one... one style. One pattern. And those four things, at the moment, are the things that feel like they would achieve a coherent pattern and, er, achievement... together. 'Fight to the death, never die, terrify the enemy, inspire the throng.'
Hence also why I've put so much words into the post above, about intimidation versus martial prowess. And then spent a few lines at the end chewing my nails as I go "But what about enemy magic though? ... Well, maybe 'I'm a Motherfucking Runelord' will be enough? Active countermeasures, essentially. Darn, if only we had an Anvil of Doom already, then I wouldn't worry about enemy magic."
However, if we do the Ancestral Aegis, or a variant of it, in Talisman form... combining themes of "stand strong, for the eyes of our forebears are upon us" with "hahaha, screw magic." Then that allows us to use the Banner to hold the Master Rune of Grimnir + Fear + Battle/Dismay.
That's an interesting idea. How about MPurification, spellbreaking, spite. Break down demons and use their warpy stuff to rebound and empower the next hit.
Combo, Mountainsouled: [Master Rune of Unyielding, Rune of Fortitude, Rune of Stone][The armour is made unbreakable, the user's durability more akin to a Gronti than a regular dwarf. Their body and mind are unaffected by fatigue or fear, most damage they suffer is often temporary, barring truly ruinous wounds, and painless.] Stories tell that the first Dawi were born from the ageless living stones of the Mountain, that the Ancestors were pebbles of the First Rock of the world.
So, due to work I haven't been able to follow the thread all that closely, so forgive me if this has already been discussed, but this is awesome. Our first two armor combos just seem incredibly powerful and I can't wait to strike this combo on a set of adamant armor. This is going to make Snorri into a true bulwark upon which to rally behind.
So, due to work I haven't been able to follow the thread all that closely, so forgive me if this has already been discussed, but this is awesome. Our first two armor combos just seem incredibly powerful and I can't wait to strike this combo on a set of adamant armor. This is going to make Snorri into a true bulwark upon which to rally behind.
So a thought occurs, Mountainsoul is likely the precursor to Mountain rune. Fairly sensible yeah? Now remember when we saw the Rune of Eternity? How it'd always glow as long as dwarves walked the mountains? Pretty sure Master Mountain runes play a part in the Eternity Rune make up.
It's not just about covering all your bases. It's about... About achieving a mythos or narrative. I don't want to just make something that is 'good and serviceable.' I want something to make a statement, to make a legend, to tell a story.
To hit a story beat or achieve a character archetype or what have you.
Mythos matters a lot to me too - it's why I went with the Rune of stone for Barak Azamar, despite being superficially a weaker Rune- it just fit. I don't know If I want Snorri to mold himself in Gromnir's image - he's dwarf santa, yes, but he's also dwarf santa.
At the very least, I'll give this some thought. I've had an idea for an MDismay warhorn, I'm not averse to a fear-based item idea.
However, if we do the Ancestral Aegis, or a variant of it, in Talisman form... combining themes of "stand strong, for the eyes of our forebears are upon us" with "hahaha, screw magic." Then that allows us to use the Banner to hold the Master Rune of Grimnir + Fear + Battle/Dismay.
I have no objection whatsoever to replacing Conversion with AA. It's not a high priority for me, but it does seem like a small, straightforward upgrade.
So a thought occurs, Mountainsoul is likely the precursor to Mountain rune. Fairly sensible yeah? Now remember when we saw the Rune of Eternity? How it'd always glow as long as dwarves walked the mountains? Pretty sure Master Mountain runes play a part in the Eternity Rune make up.
I mean, I follow your logic, but Soulcake has said that for all intents and purposes, Stone is the Rune of Mountain. That's actually the reason I ended up deciding on it as the last combo element.
Yes. Maybe the mechanism could hold a charge of runesmith energy. Maybe because what we are after only has to fail explosively the mechanism aims to reforge several single rune object into one multirune object - which should also fail catastrophically.
Remote rune forging is not expected to be successfull at rune forging. It stands in for "Figuring out how to successfully induce the failure state of a 4 rune object without risking an actual runesmith". That's all it ever is supposed to do.
Now I'm just imagining Snorri, standing around a corner a good distance away from the Work, slowly and laboriously hitting it with the 25 foot long pole-hammer he made just for this purpose.
In my mind T5s are the devotion of a smith, their greatest works, and because of that when attempting to reach such a tier from a good baseline it has a much deeper capacity we can put actions into. Just from like a narrative logic perspective, it makes sense to me for the process of trying to make a T5 to be able to accept all of our efforts.
Question -- if we really really want to put maximum effort into the armor, how would you feel about the following: we apply 1 action to the armor per turn, depending on how many actions it take to complete it?
i.e. If the armor takes 3 actions to complete, then we spend the next 2 turns putting 1 action into it... And then work like a crazy man and pour all our actions into it.
If the armor takes just 2 actions to complete, then we just put 1 action the coming turn and 4 the turn after that.
This was actually kind of what I wanted to do with the Griffon King's armor too, especially as it had 3 actions to make so we could have chipped away at it over the course of 3 whole turns, but... That, ended up not happening. =/ I'm sad about that. Especially since, if we'd taken 2 or 3 more turns to do the armor, then we could have put 4 or 6 more Adamant Bars into it. Thus making it out of a total of like, what, 11 Adamant Bars?
Now that would have been a Mythical armor piece!
Instead, we kind of... did not do that. Ah well. =/
Trollslayer probably wasted a couple of actions but I think we did get a couple extra bits out of it. Kraggi noticed it was extra pure and that led to the brotherhood invite.
Actually, looking back at that turn, we got +1 on rune metal out of it as well so it's kinda like we got a free action out of it. So in more recent turns it'd be like the KoTS armor where we put 3+2 actions into it with one left to do something else. If four actions into the armor gets us rune metal or any other research progress out of it then it'd even out.
Combo, Mountainsouled: [Master Rune of Unyielding, Rune of Fortitude, Rune of Stone][The armour is made unbreakable, the user's durability more akin to a Gronti than a regular dwarf. Their body and mind are unaffected by fatigue or fear, most damage they suffer is often temporary, barring truly ruinous wounds, and painless.] Stories tell that the first Dawi were born from the ageless living stones of the Mountain, that the Ancestors were pebbles of the First Rock of the world.
So, due to work I haven't been able to follow the thread all that closely, so forgive me if this has already been discussed, but this is awesome. Our first two armor combos just seem incredibly powerful and I can't wait to strike this combo on a set of adamant armor. This is going to make Snorri into a true bulwark upon which to rally behind.
Hmm... You know, funny thought. Lagg reminded us about the creation of Trollslayer having the effect of gifting us a bit on Rune Metal, and... Well. Depending on how things turn out, like if we go with (one of) BungieOni's plans and make Barak Azamar the very next turn... Well, think of it this way:
Snorri has just spent 2 consecutive turns working on 2 epic armors. Which both have awesome rune combos on them. The second of which will probably be made of pure Adamant.
What if that gives us an insight into Armor-making? Like another specialty or trait picked up?? I would like a Trait based on improving the quality of armor crafted, f'r ex. ((... Or maybe we'll get a trait on working with Dragon material. xD We have made some things out of dragon stuff a lot, after all, haven't we.))
((On that note about Dragons, that makes me want to look into the Dragon's Blood stuff again, haha. Semi-unrelated though, as it's a tangent of a tangent, as I went from musing on armor to musing on material and then to dragon's blood.))
Yeah, definitely. It was also why I was fretting between "Stone and Fortitude? Or Stone and Might? aaaahhhhh" for a bit. Stone just fit. But then I worried over whether Fortitude was retreading similar ground too much, and whether Might would be a better addition... So needless to say I was relieved and happy with how things turned out.
On a slightly different note... Does anybody feel like Prince Gloin should get a cool axe? To go with his armor's and cloak's themes of frost, at that. Ideally, it would also serve as an echo and counterpart to Meteorfall, too...
I have been wanting to find a fitting Runic Combo using our Master Rune of Currents for a while, after all. (Ranging from ideas that assumed that MCurrents had a cold element already -- after a reread, I think it doesn't; it looks like a "as sharp and swift as the wind" thing, rather than MConduction's thing where it conducts heat -- to ideas that added a Rune of Cold and then wondering what the third rune should be.)
Since MCurrents is "swift and sharp", then... Skill or Parrying could go well. It would round things out more. Swift as the wind, with great skill, and intercepting enemy attacks! On the other hand, MCurrents + Cleaving... well, that feels appropriate too. A wind cleaves through things, yeah? A cutting wind. Should Cold be the third rune in that, then? Or maybe MCurrents + Might + Cold; hoping for a frost analog to Meteorfall.
And then there was the idea somebody had, of... well, it was "Shattering Ice" or something like that. I think it might have been MBreaking plus Cold plus... maybe Might or Impact? Thus, "freezing and shattering the enemy."[/QUOTE]
Yes. Maybe the mechanism could hold a charge of runesmith energy. Maybe because what we are after only has to fail explosively the mechanism aims to reforge several single rune object into one multirune object - which should also fail catastrophically.
Remote rune forging is not expected to be successfull at rune forging. It stands in for "Figuring out how to successfully induce the failure state of a 4 rune object without risking an actual runesmith". That's all it ever is supposed to do.
Question -- if we really really want to put maximum effort into the armor, how would you feel about the following: we apply 1 action to the armor per turn, depending on how many actions it take to complete it?
i.e. If the armor takes 3 actions to complete, then we spend the next 2 turns putting 1 action into it... And then work like a crazy man and pour all our actions into it.
If the armor takes just 2 actions to complete, then we just put 1 action the coming turn and 4 the turn after that.
This was actually kind of what I wanted to do with the Griffon King's armor too, especially as it had 3 actions to make so we could have chipped away at it over the course of 3 whole turns, but... That, ended up not happening. =/ I'm sad about that. Especially since, if we'd taken 2 or 3 more turns to do the armor, then we could have put 4 or 6 more Adamant Bars into it. Thus making it out of a total of like, what, 11 Adamant Bars?
Now that would have been a Mythical armor piece!
Instead, we kind of... did not do that. Ah well. =/
Its a single piece of equipment for a single dwarf, so its going to be 1 action cost to complete it going by the table Soulcake has provided us in the updates.
