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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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TheDuke said:
I dunno man, we're pretty rich. We own a Gromril mine and unique Wutroth grove, along with a bunch of other valuable resource sites. We're probably the richest dwarf in the Hold by an exceedingly wide margin, barring the King himself. You're probably right on the other counts though.
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I know we're rich, but i think you may be underestimating how big the tunnel is:
"Well enough, I'll have another addition for the map by the month's end, my King. Tunnel network's massive, frankly we don't know yet just how far the beastie's expanded, but Kraka Drakk is looking to be just the peak of this mountain."
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The tunnels were discovered a decade ago, and they're still not fully explored. A part of it is due to caution, but presumably, Brokk has put every man he's got available on it, and we're still not there.
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I think we should to figure out a system to share our loot with the other local runelords.
Before, King Otrek gave most of it to us. But at this point we have tons of dragon ogres which we'll probably not get that much use out of. It might be a nice way to get more friendly with the other Runelords.
And when some interesting loot comes up (such as this dragon), we could hold a meeting between the runelords where we make project proposals and they vote to decide who gets what.
It could even be a minigame within the quest: players spitball up to 5 projects (one per Runelord) that fit with the runelords' specialities, and then we get to vote on the best project. And then soulcake writes the result of the vote into the quest, giving us an opportunity to see more Runelords interacting.

@soulcake: what do you think of something like this?
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So an armor that can regenerate limbs?
Does that mean we can use it to regrow an amputated dwarfs limbs?

(regarding using the brain for a Gronti, how about making a central nervous system out of gromril, the CNS can then grow with age/sink into various materials animating them)
 
dpara said:
So an armor that can regenerate limbs?
Does that mean we can use it to regrow an amputated dwarfs limbs?

(regarding using the brain for a Gronti, how about making a central nervous system out of gromril, the CNS can then grow with age/sink into various materials animating them)
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Seems more likely it's an in-the-moment effect, rather then some be all end all healing item. Like, if we got an arm lopped off by a Bloodthirster while we were wearing the armour in combat, it'd grow back shortly, but if we tossed the armour on some Longbeard that had been short a foot for the last 50 years it wouldn't just magically grow back. Course, it might take effect, if we put the armour on another dwarf that'd lost a limb or suffered a grievous wound a few minutes ago or something like that, but taking off a full set of Adamant armour in the heat of battle and strapping it on another dwarf probably wouldn't be a very realistic option, outside the direst of circumstances.
 
dpara said:
So an armor that can regenerate limbs?
Does that mean we can use it to regrow an amputated dwarfs limbs?

(regarding using the brain for a Gronti, how about making a central nervous system out of gromril, the CNS can then grow with age/sink into various materials animating them)
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As far as building a CNS for a Gronti....not entirely sure I see the point? Using the brain to lend some measure of sentience to a Gronti isn't a bad idea, if maybe a bit of a risky one, but giving it nerves and nerve endings seems like it sort of defeats the purpose of a tireless, fearless construct that doesn't feel pain. It being able to move without unnecessary bits like the spinal cord is kind of the whole point of the Master Rune of Waking.
 
TheDuke said:
As far as building a CNS for a Gronti....not entirely sure I see the point? Using the brain to lend some measure of sentience to a Gronti isn't a bad idea, if maybe a bit of a risky one, but giving it nerves and nerve endings seems like it sort of defeats the purpose of a tireless, fearless construct that doesn't feel pain. It being able to move without unnecessary bits like the spinal cord is kind of the whole point of the Master Rune of Waking.
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Well a circulatory system would have been more fitting, but someone ate the heart xD
Maybe not literal nerve endings*, thought more like a dwarf shaped slime but made of stone/metal, drop the CNS (/slime-core) on a material. Instant Gronti.
*I like the CNS look because of "the greatest craftsman eclipses nature" kinda idea.
 
dpara said:
Well a circulatory system would have been more fitting, but someone ate the heart xD
Maybe not literal nerve endings*, thought more like a dwarf shaped slime but made of stone/metal, drop the CNS (/slime-core) on a material. Instant Gronti.
*I like the CNS look because of "the greatest craftsman eclipses nature" kinda idea.
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Mm, I suppose I could see the appeal, even if I'm a wee bit cautious about lending that level of control over a tireless, nigh-invincible body of Adamant to the brain of quite possibly one of the most evil and destructive sort-of-mortal entities in the history of WHF. Also, from a crafting standpoint, creating that sort of malleability in any sort of somewhat durable metal would likely be an extraordinarily difficult task. Even working Gromril with the delicacy and malleability necessary to shape it into chains requires the skill of the most ancient and venerable of the Ancestor Gods. Don't want to imagine what sort of work would be necessary to render it into a perpetually malleable form as would be required of a slime.
 
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Alright, thought it over a bit and I have the beginnings of an idea for he who remembers (thinks? The toughness one). It's a little difficult because 'toughness and endurance' are very generic, but let's drill down on the specific connotations.

Toughness has a...meatiness to it, for lack of a better word. There's a degree of yielding there as contrasted to say, Steelskin. Endurance also implies taking damage and going on regardless.

I think this griffon is less concerned with being unaffected by damage, than with always getting up again. He wants to be Captain America, getting up, spitting out the blood and saying 'I can do this all day'.

So what do people think of MUnyielding, Resilience and Stoicism? Seems to fit the bill to me.
 
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BelligerentGnu said:
Alright, thought it over a but and I have the beginnings of an idea for he who remembers (thinks? The toughness one). It's a little difficult because 'toughness and endurance' are very generic, but let's drill down on the specific connotations.

Toughness has a...meatiness to it, for lack of a better word. There's a degree of yielding there as contrasted to say, Steelskin. Endurance also implies taking damage and going on regardless.

I think this griffon is less concerned with being unaffected by damage, than with always getting up again. He wants to be Captain America, getting up, spitting out the blood and saying 'I can do this all day'.

So what do people think of MUnyielding, Resilience and Stoicism? Seems to fit the bill to me.
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Can we finish off the two requests and do some research before we start the griffon princes' armors? We're never going to get any research done if we keep on taking request after request...
 
BelligerentGnu said:
Alright, thought it over a but and I have the beginnings of an idea for he who remembers (thinks? The toughness one). It's a little difficult because 'toughness and endurance' are very generic, but let's drill down on the specific connotations.

Toughness has a...meatiness to it, for lack of a better word. There's a degree of yielding there as contrasted to say, Steelskin. Endurance also implies taking damage and going on regardless.

I think this griffon is less concerned with being unaffected by damage, than with always getting up again. He wants to be Captain America, getting up, spitting out the blood and saying 'I can do this all day'.

So what do people think of MUnyielding, Resilience and Stoicism? Seems to fit the bill to me.
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If resistance to damage is a secondary concern, you may want to meditate on the tireless master rune as well. There may be some setups where it's got more combo potential than unyielding.

(I would say something about the rune of might but I'm kinda worried about typecasting myself at this point lol)
 
Trrrruuuuue.....hmmm.

The thing is, I'm not necessarily saying he's completely above the need for increased protection - Captain America can rebound from pain/injury, but he's still much tougher than a normal human. He's just not superman levels of tough.

I'll think on Tireless, but my gut says Unyielding works better as a linchpin rune.

IronFist said:
Can we finish off the two requests and do some research before we start the griffon princes' armors?
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Do you see me making action plans? :p I'm theory crafting man, it's what I do here.

@soulcake, three questions for you:

  1. Does Snorri notice a pronounced difference between the difficulty of smithing the Master Rune of Blizzards and the Master Rune of Unyielding?
  2. Say we researched Understand MBlizzards, and made it a banner Rune. If we made one banner with the Hailmantle combo, and another banner with just a single MBlizzards, what would be the difference in power and function between them?
  3. Lastly, what does Snorri know about what happens if a runesmith a) seriously botched a Master Rune, or a Master Rune experiment goes bad, or b) tries to put four runes on one artifact? Obviously, bad, but specifically?
 
BelligerentGnu said:
  1. Does Snorri notice a pronounced difference between the difficulty of smithing the Master Rune of Blizzards and the Master Rune of Unyielding?
  2. Say we researched Understand MBlizzards, and made it a banner Rune. If we made one banner with the Hailmantle combo, and another banner with just a single MBlizzards, what would be the difference in power and function between them?
  3. Lastly, what does Snorri know about what happens if a runesmith a) seriously botched a Master Rune, or a Master Rune experiment goes bad, or b) tries to put four runes on one artifact? Obviously, bad, but specifically?
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1. Not especially.
2. Snorri's best guess, which is backed by his experience with Master Runes, says that it should be stronger and/or more versatile, but by how much he can't say for certain. The real benefit is definitely more that you can fit in two extra Runes instead of using three to make the effect though.
3. The Rune fails to function or functions imperfectly in the best case. The worst case the Rune explodes in a shower of hot metal and magic that can kill you if unprepared. 4 Runes will always result in the item breaking, but how explosively depends on the Runes in question, though the item itself may even break at the beginning, in the middle or at the end of inscribing the fourth Rune depending on its strength. The latter two are based on the assumption that yes you are in fact inside the warded chamber, otherwise you would be very dead if the Master Rune exploded and likely dead with the Four Rune item, depending on the Runes in question.

(OOC) When I mean explosion of metal and magic I mean you'd make a big dharr spot at the very least and a bunch of weird esoteric effects somehow related to the Rune. The force of the explosion itself would probably destroy the Room you're in without the array regardless. Master Runes are less dangerous to the user's soul than a battle wizard fucking up his combat spell, but the effects are still monstrously ruinous without the warded chamber. The amount of energy involved is scary.

EDIT:

AS AN ASIDE. IVE UPDATED THE UNDERSTAND A MASTER RUNE POST SO THAT IT BETTER REFLECTS WHAT I WANTED TO CONVEY ORIGINALLY, I REALIZE MOST FOLKS SKIM THAT SORT OF THING IN THE UPDATE SO HERE IT IS. CHANGES UNDERLINED.

[ ] Understand a Master Rune: [Cost: Variable with a max of 16 actions] Student of the Odd and/or Mind for Metal may proc. The same idea as studying any rune in theory, in practice it takes a lot longer and there's often a large chance of explosions. The action cost is dependent on a variety of factors, but the number of similar Master Runes you know, your specialties, and even if you made the Rune being worked on can reduce the cost.
 
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soulcake said:
1. Not especially.
2. Snorri's best guess, which is backed by his experience with Master Runes, says that it should be stronger and/or more versatile, but by how much he can't say for certain. The real benefit is definitely more that you can fit in two extra Runes instead of using three to make the effect though.
3. The Rune fails to function or functions imperfectly in the best case. The worst case the Rune explodes in a shower of hot metal and magic that can kill you if unprepared. 4 Runes will always result in the item breaking, but how explosively depends on the Runes in question, though the item itself may even break at the beginning, in the middle or at the end of inscribing the fourth Rune depending on its strength.
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Very interesting. So just mundane explosions then? I'm surprised our Master Rune Safety rune array involves spellbreaking then.
 
MPurification will be our best baseline on how long/short an MRune Understanding action can take, considering Snorri basicaply created the rune through probable divine inspiration.
 
BelligerentGnu said:
Very interesting. So just mundane explosions then? I'm surprised our Master Rune Safety rune array involves spellbreaking then.
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Well this is based on what you know of magic and stuff and that explanation was based on the assumption youre experimenting within the Room which I'll make clear in the post. The exact metaphysics of why Thungni wanted this done basically boils down to "Rune go boom, magic will kill you if the metal doesn't so make wards." (OOC) When I mean explosion of metal and magic I mean you'd make a big dharr spot at the very least and a bunch of weird esoteric effects somehow related to the Rune. The force of the explosion itself would probably destroy the Room you're in without the array regardless. Master Runes are less dangerous to the user's soul than a battle wizard fucking up his combat spell, but the effects are still monstrously ruinous without the warded chamber. The amount of energy involved is scary.
 
TimEd said:
MPurification will be our best baseline on how long/short an MRune Understanding action can take, considering Snorri basicaply created the rune through probable divine inspiration.
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It's probably going to be the shortest given that we've put so much effort into Rune Metal, made the Master Rune of Purification and the specialties in Odd and Esoteric will help.
 
What are the big, overarching changes that has been made to canon so far? Top of my head is that the North didn't fall?
 
It's not so much the North not falling as it is the North having an Underway connection to the rest of the Karaz Ankor, so it didn't get cut off.
 
Valor said:
What are the big, overarching changes that has been made to canon so far? Top of my head is that the North didn't fall?
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As those above me have noted. The griffons also likely count in some regard.

Most of the changes have been linked specifically to the North since that's where we're doing the most work.
 
Valor said:
What are the big, overarching changes that has been made to canon so far? Top of my head is that the North didn't fall?
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Rovos said:
Kholek dead, no Dazi zhar
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Also the whole thing with the Griffons has changed the Dwarf/Elf relationship slightly, as Grimnir found the elves lacking compared to the dedication of the Griffons.

I give it a couple of centuries before we start seeing Griffon Riders (Runelords and/or Rangers) showing up and giving the dwarves some much needed mobility + air superiority.

Edit: also the Dwarves have started building much stronger underground fortifications and have likely been inspired to fortify the hell out of their underways too (Aided by the teachings of Grimnir and Morgrims book), meaning their holds are now even harder to take.
 
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That's a nice change, soulcake. It gives the option a fair chance of being picked.

And the worst case scenario, it's 16 actions.

With Master Rune of Purification:
- we've used it multiple times,
- we are the creator of the rune
- we have a mind of metal and student of the odd
- we have a speciality in talismanic runes
- we know Master Rune of Gromril, which is definitely related.

Maybe something to look into after we finish our armor? I really want to be the first rune we know inside-out. It's our invention :) and there's soulcake's tease about making Runes that can apply properties that persist after leaving the Rune's AoE.

Valor said:
What are the big, overarching changes that has been made to canon so far? Top of my head is that the North didn't fall?
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Chaos Dwarfs are not likely to be as significant a faction in this timeline, because thanks to our banner channeling energy to them during the battle of Kraka Drakk, the Ancestors were able to reach out the Eastern Dwarfs in their moment of despair. As a result, they didn't turn to Hashut in bulk. It's still a possibility that some dwarfs will fall to him, due to the simple fact that they are close to his place of power, but at worst, it will be a much maligned (and secretive) cult, as opposed to a whole society of demon worshipping slavers.
Down the line, that probably means no black orcs, lower quality chaos armor and no hellcannnons/demon engines.

Another is that thanks to finishing the Underway before the Incursion, the North and Centre of Karaz Ankor are still in contact. Reinforcements from the south were able to reach us, and as a result the North wasn't overrun with monsters and demons.

And finally, the Griffons. Dwarfs have had friendly, ancestor approved contact with a race other than the High elves of Ulthuan. It might be a small change, but it might end up with Dwarfs that are more open to alliances.
 
IronFist said:
I think we should to figure out a system to share our loot with the other local runelords.
Before, King Otrek gave most of it to us. But at this point we have tons of dragon ogres which we'll probably not get that much use out of. It might be a nice way to get more friendly with the other Runelords.
And when some interesting loot comes up (such as this dragon), we could hold a meeting between the runelords where we make project proposals and they vote to decide who gets what.
It could even be a minigame within the quest: players spitball up to 5 projects (one per Runelord) that fit with the runelords' specialities, and then we get to vote on the best project. And then soulcake writes the result of the vote into the quest, giving us an opportunity to see more Runelords interacting.

@soulcake: what do you think of something like this?
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I strongly agree with this. I think it's the only way we're ever gonna make that gronti mega project for example: Commission the gronti specialist to make the gronti, the armor specialist to make the armor etc.
 
BungieONI said:
It's probably going to be the shortest given that we've put so much effort into Rune Metal, made the Master Rune of Purification and the specialties in Odd and Esoteric will help.
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But it is also a derivative which came from the nebulous source that is Inspiration. I say it is the 'best' baseline mainly due to the fact that if ever the action cost is shown, I'm hoping it shows the original cost, and show what procs and how much it removes from the cost, instead of soulcake his workings.
 
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