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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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NSMS said:
As a general rule, dragons don't burrow underground to attack tunnels.
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Shard and magma dragons do.

But it seems pretty unlikely that anyone would bother.

More, but still not very likely is that the expansion of the Underway to Kraka Drak encourages further expansion, meaning that the dwarves have significantly more runic mining equipment so it's easier to rejoin the broken sections.
 
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[X]Glumi: The old ranger walking over, his cowl covering everything save his beard in shadow. At your nod, the elder simply sits down on the log to your right and pulls out his own tankard before putting it underneath the spigot on your keg.
 
Metagaming aside, I don't think the underway reinforcement argument will get anywhere. Grimnir didn't disapprove of our defences, which as far as Snorri is concerned is enough. And even if we did go to great lengths to protect against "tremors caused by dragons", it would involve changes to the whole underway network, not just the section we can influence.
 
This is why I hate mystery boxes.
Havalt300 said:
You know what we should do, we should at least cover the ceiling, floor and walls in our section of the underway with runes to make them as stable as possible. If the Slanns do their magic, the damage in our section will not be that bad.

At least I hope so.
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Try to avoid double posting, and try to avoid metagaming on things over 3000 years in the future.
 
[X]Glumi: The old ranger walking over, his cowl covering everything save his beard in shadow. At your nod, the elder simply sits down on the log to your right and pulls out his own tankard before putting it underneath the spigot on your keg.
 
[X]Glumi: The old ranger walking over, his cowl covering everything save his beard in shadow. At your nod, the elder simply sits down on the log to your right and pulls out his own tankard before putting it underneath the spigot on your keg.
 
[X] Glumi: The old ranger walking over, his cowl covering everything save his beard in shadow. At your nod, the elder simply sits down on the log to your right and pulls out his own tankard before putting it underneath the spigot on your keg.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by thefoolswriter on Apr 13, 2020 at 10:56 AM, finished with 113 posts and 100 votes.
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Havalt300 said:
You know what we should do, we should at least cover the ceiling, floor and walls in our section of the underway with runes to make them as stable as possible. If the Slanns do their magic, the damage in our section will not be that bad.

At least I hope so.
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EVA-Saiyajin said:
Try to avoid double posting, and try to avoid metagaming on things over 3000 years in the future.
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One of the most annoying things in this quest is that whenever people point out that meta gaming is a problem that some people will get offended when they accuse certain decisions like trying to improve defenses as being heavily influenced by meta gaming and act like it's blown out of proportion only for us to get things posts like this. Really annoying that people refuse to accept that it is a problem despite blatant posts that outright try to use meta knowledge to meta game for long term things that happen in the future.

I mean we had posts like this complaining about it:
SuperSonicSound said:
Could you stop with the constant wide sweeping accusations of meta-gaming against the voter-base please. It's insulting and frankly it's making me want to oppose you out of spite. Especially when people have been explaining that for instance the reason they want apprentice actions is purely because they like reading about them.

Also calling it meta-gaming to want to reinforce the underway when we've had a gribbly pop up inside it earlier completely demolishes your accusation of it being meta-gaming to have wanted to reinforce the underway, in the same way that the fact that Karak-ungor was nearly lost demolishes the idea that we shouldn't prepare powerful defence in general as meta-gaming.
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Some people are metagaming, the problem @Red Bovine is you're accusing basically more than half of the voter base, it's tiresome and annoying to read because you're not going to change any ones mind by trying to shame them with it.

Suggest more interesting actions or things to do, because your current way of trying to influence the vote isn't going to work it's counter productive on basically every level.

Also there's different levels of meta-gaming, the traditional one (Which is taking action plans based on mechanical system efficiencies, that would be focusing on actions that proc our traits for maximum gain, this being absolutely justifiable and sensible) and the less traditional one which is using meta-knowledge, which tbh may not be relevant here because the time could be thrown massively out of whack. We don't even know that the Slaan are going to do their thing in this timeline.
 
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Honestly, at this point i think metagaming plans are unlikely to get any significant traction. We just have so much to do.

I don't consider expecting more shit to hit the fan metagaming anymore; it's pretty clear to Snorri that the situation is bad. The Great Throng may have cleared out a lot of the gribblies of the mountains, but it doesn't do much against Demons popping out of the Aether, or the Blackened Sky. In fact, I would like Snorri to work on a better Demonslaying weapon, given we've likely skewed the proportion of Demons to Monsters in favor of demons with our purge.

Sidenote: Grimnir met the Elves while leading the Great Throng. I guess that happened while he was campaigning further to the south due to Ulthuan's location. Pity. It doesn't seem we'll be having any contact with Ulthuan before the Golden Age.

Edit: Grimnir should have sensed the true purpose of Elves and their synergy with [Gift Giver] with [Sight Beyond Reckoning] and recommended we employ some in our workshop :V
 
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SuperSonicSound said:
Some people are metagaming, the problem @Red Bovine is you're accusing basically more than half of the voter base, it's tiresome and annoying to read because you're not going to change any ones mind by trying to shame them with it.

Suggest more interesting actions or things to do, because your current way of trying to influence the vote isn't going to work it's counter productive on basically every level.

Also there's different levels of meta-gaming, the traditional one (Which is taking action plans based on mechanical system efficiencies, that would be focusing on actions that proc our traits for maximum gain, this being absolutely justifiable and sensible) and the less traditional one which is using meta-knowledge, which tbh may not be relevant here because the time could be thrown massively out of whack. We don't even know that the Slaan are going to do their thing in this timeline.
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Okay you are just strawmanning. I outright put a post pointing that while yes there are legit reasons for actions like making defenses some of the more extreme cases like those wanting to spend 3 freaking actions straight on doing nothing but building one tunnel and even obsessing to the point that the QM outright said that after a point that they already did the defenses people still wanted to spend yet another entire turn on the tunnel even after the QM said that it wasn't necessary. When the QM calls a number of the players out you know it's a problem. And it seems like it was influenced by Meta Knowledge considering how people constantly bring up meta knowledge in regards to needing to boost defenses all the time like with the above example literally a posts ago. Another thing is that the QM did confirm that a number of things were still going to happen due to them being out of our control and it happening in the canon timeline.

The thing is that meta gaming is a problem when it has people constantly trying to abuse meta knowledge all the time and heavily effects in story decisions. A major example in another quest is W40K female Primarch quest where the QM would give the players a ton of OOC information and in a lot of cases would instantly abuse it for in story choices to the point that people started complaining about it because people were sick of the constant meta knowledge abuse.

So the point is that is that meta knowledge can influence decisions and I was pointing out that it is a problem considering how often it literally gets brought up in this quest in regards to decision making. I wasn't shaming anyone. If anything it seems like people like you are shaming people for pointing out issues that they believe are problems and offering critiques. Further not helped in that people like you seem to refuse to acknowledge that meta gaming can actually influence a number of decisions for a number of people. For gods sake, I literally quoted a post that was outright using meta gaming to justify certain actions and you still act like it isn't happening.
 
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Red Bovine said:
Okay you are just strawmanning. I outright put a post pointing that while yes there are legit reasons for actions like making defenses some of the more extreme cases like those wanting to spend 3 freaking actions straight on doing nothing but building one tunnel and even obsessing to the point that the QM outright said that after a point that they already did the defenses people still wanted to spend yet another entire turn on the tunnel even after the QM said that it wasn't necessary. When the QM calls a number of the players out you know it's a problem. And it seems like it was influenced by Meta Knowledge considering how people constantly bring up meta knowledge in regards to needing to boost defenses all the time like with the above example literally a posts ago. Another thing is that the QM did confirm that a number of things were still going to happen due to them being out of our control and it happening in the canon timeline.

The thing is that meta gaming is a problem when it has people constantly trying to abuse meta knowledge all the time and heavily effects in story decisions. A major example in another quest is W40K female Primarch quest where the QM would give the players a ton of OOC information and in a lot of cases would instantly abuse it for in story choices to the point that people started complaining about it because people were sick of the constant meta knowledge abuse.

So the point is that is that meta knowledge can influence decisions and I was pointing out that it is a problem considering how often it literally gets brought up in this quest in regards to decision making. I wasn't shaming anyone. If anything it seems like people like you are shaming people for pointing out issues that they believe are problems and offering critiques. Further not helped in that people like you seem to refuse to acknowledge that meta gaming can actually influence a number of decisions for a number of people. For gods sake, I literally quoted a post that was outright using meta gaming to justify certain actions and you still act like it isn't happening.
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Red, please, be reasonable, he isn't claiming it isn't happening, and everything else you've said has been addressed multiple times already (for a big example of this, you saying "that even the QM calls out the players" when speaking of the underway, even the QM replied to you and said that he was joking around)

But, I really don't want to derail the thread too badly here, so I won't go into any more detail on your post beyond just a request to please stop making the same post with the same claims constantly throughout the thread, please :( it baits both SuperSonicSound and I to make the same response posts with the same counter claims every time, and that's just counterproductive

TL;DR please stop making this same post, the points have been made already, and we convince nobody either way by arguing. (I'm sorry for responding and continuing it, it's just been annoying me)
 
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Weirdo said:
Red, please, be reasonable, he isn't claiming it isn't happening, and everything else you've said has been addressed multiple times already (for a big example of this, you saying "that even the QM calls out the players" when speaking of the underway, even the QM replied to you and said that he was joking around)

But, I really don't want to derail the thread too badly here, so I won't go into any more detail on your post beyond just a request to please stop making the same post with the same claims constantly throughout the thread, please :( it baits both SuperSonicSound and I to make the same response posts with the same counter claims every time, and that's just counterproductive

TL;DR please stop making this same post, the points have been made already, and we convince nobody either way by arguing. (I'm sorry for responding and continuing it, it's just been annoying me)
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Actually that's my biggest complaint. SuperSonic pretty much seems to be refusing to admit that something is influencing something else in any way whatsoever and even seems to literally ignore evidence stating otherwise. It really doesn't help his case that he did it twice.
 
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