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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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Hey @Xepheria, i would like to you to know for [simple] Research, we can in fact use our Grudge with the Fimir to boost any actions to Grudge them by one, netting us another simple action simple action with them complete and successfully allow us the ability to get our laser eye up and running for are war turn possibly, or definitely for the part 2 of the war. This was allowed last turn from @soulcake.

We have no Fimir eyes. We physically cannot take the option, otherwise I would.
 
6 Prods into Mind of Things has the potential of outright finishing Part 5 this turn, and otherwise puts Part 5 in very easy reach. We also have a much more concrete idea of what the tree contains than speculative assumptions on Part 6 for Movement, and it's by far the most likely tree for studying/obtaining Windsight, which is so important it supersedes basically everything else.

Just unlocking the option of researching it would be fundamentally revolutionary.
Even if it does eventually unlock Windsight we're no where even close to that point. Nothing in the current part even hints at it as it's dealing with memory currently. Deep Magic is both useful in the long run and in the near future for further improving our Capstone Gronti.
 
Hey @Xepheria, i would like to you to know for [simple] Research, we can in fact use our Grudge with the Fimir to boost any actions to Grudge them by one, netting us another simple action simple action with them complete and successfully allow us the ability to get our laser eye up and running for are war turn possibly, or definitely for the part 2 of the war. This was allowed last turn from @soulcake.
We can increase any action by one that has something to do with the Grudge. And we don't have anything right now that we could use it on.
 
I think windsight is the priority on the eye. Skarrenbakraz makes a laser kinda redundant.
After what happened to the Waystone, per the report, I kind of want to focus on those barring a single Retainer action support for the war.

Maybe even put one of our own actions towards it, use a Research action on the Armor and put Karstah on the Firebird's feather, get down personal experience with these Waystones.
For how important they are research into them is long overdue yeah.

Also I'd like to ask again that, even if it's just a single action here and there, we start poking Thungni's challenge some. The mystery box has just been sitting there this whole time and it hurts me. Not to mention dragging our feet on our ancestors test.
 
[ ] [Simple] Once more with Smelting: [Cost: 4 actions, 1 Voidstone] Peerless Production will proc. Gain 1 Dragonblood Smelter. It has been around a century since you last made an Adamant Smelter. It's been enough time since that you feel safe about making another one without feeling like you're committing sacrilege.

[ ] [Simple] Re-warding Work: [Cost: 2 actions] Peerless Production will proc. Gain 1 Waystone reroll. There's work to be done, repairing damaged wards and adding new Runes around the monolith and otherwise. Your master most certainly did a bang up job, but there's nothing wrong with contingencies upon contingencies.
Hm. Should we send our Heir to Re-ward the waystones or make a new Smelter. Some people do want a lot of Adamant for the Gronti after all.
 
I hope we can meet the judgemental dwarf that theoretically (?) writes the rumor mill stuff, just so we can see the look on their face when we announce/found Khazagar.
 
We also might want to do nothing with regard to Khazagar this turn. Maybe.

Keep it quiet until we actually can put three of our actions into it.

(We need 4x3 of our actions to get guaranteed 24 actions, less if we spend some favor, retainer or heir action, even less for every random proc of PP)
 
Even if it does eventually unlock Windsight we're no where even close to that point. Nothing in the current part even hints at it as it's dealing with memory currently. Deep Magic is both useful in the long run and in the near future for further improving our Capstone Gronti.

We literally have an avenue for investigating suitable reagents for a Windsight combo introduced this turn, and a decent idea of how to actually begin tackling the issue. The Mind of Things deals in the interaction between runes and the dwarven mind; memory, yes, but also the senses. The tree literally gave us the means of granting lost sight to dwarves via prosthetics - entirely new senses are entirely within its scope, and Windsight in particular likely lies in a side-tree.

I think you're underestimating how fundamentally revolutionary obtaining a means of Windsight would be for us. It is the most important tool for approaching the problem of Durin's Consternation.
After what happened to the Waystone, per the report, I kind of want to focus on those barring a single Retainer action support for the war.

Maybe even put one of our own actions towards it, use a Research action on the Armor and put Karstah on the Firebird's feather, get down personal experience with these Waystones.

Scouting and waywarding probably the best shout for retainer actions, but we shouldn't use a personal AP on them - it's incredibly wasteful. Additionally, research actions can only be used on [Simple] research - the armour is [Difficult].
 
If we use the Heir action on the Firebird's Feather we can use the Research action on Movement of Things and spend the freed up AP elsewhere.
 
If we use the Heir action on the Firebird's Feather we can use the Research action on Movement of Things and spend the freed up AP elsewhere.
Research actions only work on [simple] research.

Also I really would like to start actively helping with the waystones. And we should probably think about increasing the hearth guard at least once in the near future.
 
Also windsight will probably majorly depends on rune combo and ingredients.
Hopefully not too badly out of the reach of other runesmiths, a rune of windsight sounds like the perfect thing to start teaching in our new hall of learning right out the gate.

What better way to prove our intentions and results than handing out the key to solving Durin's Consternation? It'll be vindicating for sure.
 
Hopefully not too badly out of the reach of other runesmiths, a rune of windsight sounds like the perfect thing to start teaching in our new hall of learning right out the gate.

What better way to prove our intentions and results than handing out the key to solving Durin's Consternation? It'll be vindicating.
Well we probably need a fimir caster eye. Which is pretty dangerous. And then some rune combo for the actual windsight.
 
@soulcake as written the heir action could be used to fulfill the "The Brotherhood Calls"-request. I assume that's a mistake.

Narratively Karstah should not be able to recount an event she wasn't present for.
 
We literally have an avenue for investigating suitable reagents for a Windsight combo introduced this turn, and a decent idea of how to actually begin tackling the issue. The Mind of Things deals in the interaction between runes and the dwarven mind; memory, yes, but also the senses. The tree literally gave us the means of granting lost sight to dwarves via prosthetics - entirely new senses are entirely within its scope, and Windsight in particular likely lies in a side-tree.

I think you're underestimating how fundamentally revolutionary obtaining a means of Windsight would be for us. It is the most important tool for approaching the problem of Durin's Consternation.


Scouting and waywarding probably the best shout for retainer actions, but we shouldn't use a personal AP on them - it's incredibly wasteful. Additionally, research actions can only be used on [Simple] research - the armour is [Difficult].
I'm not underestimating anything. I just don't think it's as close as you believe. While we have returned sense to dwarfs it was senses that were missing, that were already there and were taken. A recreation of what already was.

Giving an entirely new sense, one utterly foreign and antithetical to Dwarven nature, being naturally resistant to magic as they are, one not even based on physical interactions like all other senses are but rather a metaphysical sense? When we, as you pointed out, don't even really have a frame of reference for to base our work upon?

Yeah, miles away as far as I can see.
 
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Well we probably need a fimir caster eye. Which is pretty dangerous. And then some rune combo for the actual windsight.
I know we're planning to use a Fimir Balefiend/Witch-Queen eye if we get one out of this, I'm just hoping a more basic version with lesser ingredients is possible for the purposes of spreading the rune.
I'm not underestimating anything. I just don't think it's as close as you believe. While we have returned sense to dwarfs it were senses that were missing, that were already there and were taken.

Giving an entirely new sense, one utterly foreign and antithetical to Dwarven nature, being naturally resistant to magic as they are, one not even based on physical interactions like all other senses are but rather a metaphysical sense? When we, as you pointed out, don't even really have a frame of reference for to base our work upon?

Yeah, miles away as far as I can see.
The perfect tier 4/tier 5 material for this is coming right up, and we're actively looking into elven magic, and we just lost an eye. Personally I think windsight is a very near thing, everything seems to be lining up perfectly for it.
Edit: Hell, there's a very good chance we won't even need a specific rune for it if we get the T5 material for it. The right combo & the eye might work. It's not something I'd want to bet a T5 material on, and it's not repeatable besides, but I can very easily see it being possible.
 
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Oh my, this is the first step towards Dawi Paratroopers. Give it some time, and eventually some Ranger will decide that dropping off of a Brana mid flight has practical applications. Jokes aside, seeing that Yorri is here is an immense relief. We get to go whole hog on Movement and Mind. I'll admit to being wary about going with Mind, but the opportunity for synchronizing with our other research seems valid. Poking out our Armor, learning more of what's actually going on with these things, and then there's Movement B. It'd be nice if they feed into that, but I probably shouldn't be greedy. We've already got so much to deal with after all.

That said, I figured I could put my initial thoughts out there about the Capstone Gronti. Part of me is against the idea of a dragon, because it sort of feels lacking if it can't fly. At least a Dwarf Gronti would get weapons and stuff, and like what was floated for the Grimnir Gronti one of those weapons can be tooled towards being thrown. Then again, having it be a dragon could just be plain cool. If the thing will basically be a statue until it's time for war, I feel like it'd be a powerful image. What looks like a statue on top of the mountain, covered in snow and the occasional tree. Only for it to come to life when it's needed.

Eh, what do I know. I'll leave it to the planners, like what I plan to do for the plan this turn.
 
So.

Yorri is ancient - he is at least 3.7 centuries Snorri's elder (since Snerra was noted to be the second-youngest runelord and she was pushing 370 I think?).

Yorri is on a first name basis with Alric Thugnisson.

Yorri was almost certainly trained by Durin the Lost.

Yorri went on a personal crusade to eradicate all references to his early life, training or other connecting personal information.

And more curiously indeed, Yorri refuses to use a patronymic, and that is beyond merely odd for a Dwarf. That's voluntarily branding yourself an outcast. Between his epic-level beef with elements of the Burudin, I am wondering if Yorri might not have merely been Durin's former apprentice, but his son.
 
Finishing the armor grants some insight and progress into The Movement of Things. So we don't need to go nuts on Yorri prods for that.

And also, I kind of want to spend some of the Yorri Prods on Thungni's Riddle...

... Also also. I just had the thought; I wonder if Yorri is the Nameless because his last name is actually Durinson? If he's the son of Durin the lost, then... Well, that would give another dimension to why Alric was talking to him and trying to persuade him to become a Runelord; because he was talking to his nephew. It was personal/familial and not 'just' Alric trying to persuade a venerable and skilled Runesmith to step up and become a Runelord. And also, gives a new dimension to his thoughts on the Burudin, a creation of his father's.

Yorri Durinson. I'll bet that's it. I'll bet that's the answer to the mystery.

And, guys, we don't need to start the Rune Hold just yet now. In fact, let's not start it immediately please? Get some of the other things out of the way first.
Specialties:
Runes: General Rune Subset: Odd and Esoteric Runes (Mastered), Talismanic Runes, Engineering Runes,
Skills: Productivity (Savant),
Language: Khazalid (Native Speaker), Eltharin (Fluent-), Anoqeyån (Basic)
Soulcake, I think by now the "Alchemy" Specialty should be added to that list, right?
[ ] [Simple] Chains for a Dragon: [Cost: 4 actions, 1 Magma Wyrm's Blood]. Peerless Production will proc. Gain 1 Gromril Chainforger +??? Favour with Kraka Drakk. A Chainforger is certainly quite the prestigious piece of equipment to possess. It would be.... acceptable to make one to hand over to the Hold to be used as King Otrek saw fit. The reality of what it can do is monumental, and a very significant gift to give.

[ ] [Simple] Once more with Smelting: [Cost: 4 actions, 1 Voidstone] Peerless Production will proc. Gain 1 Dragonblood Smelter. It has been around a century since you last made an Adamant Smelter. It's been enough time since that you feel safe about making another one without feeling like you're committing sacrilege.

[ ] [Simple] Re-warding Work: [Cost: 2 actions] Peerless Production will proc. Gain 1 Waystone reroll. There's work to be done, repairing damaged wards and adding new Runes around the monolith and otherwise. Your master most certainly did a bang up job, but there's nothing wrong with contingencies upon contingencies.
Huh, these are all Simple Requests. We could put Karstah on this. In fact, 2 turns of Re-warding Work by Karstah would gain 1 reroll.
Material Research:
[ ] [Simple] Firebird's Feather: [Cost: (2 -1) =1 actions] Master of the Odd will proc. You've got a feather! Its an odd little piece of deep red flaming plumage that emanates a faint heat and sometimes combusts into flames that do no lasting damage to it. Transported at great expense, barely a dent in your coffers though, and with a few notes and tales about the animal in question that it came from. A simple enough task to figure out what this thing will do. There's a large body of work regarding the firebirds of the north already, and you can use that as a good starting point in your own research.
Oh hey, we could snipe this with either Karstah or our Research Action!
[ ] [Simple] Lion Autopsy: [Cost: 3 actions] Master of the Odd will proc. Even in death, you must admit there is a fierce beauty to the animal. Several of its organs lie preserved in magically enchanted jars, put there by the Hunter who slew the massive feline and part of the order itself. Though without the use of Runes who's to say about their freshness. Regardless, it's still worth investigating.
- [ ] Destructive Research: [Cost: 2 White Lion Corpses] Gain 1d2 progress, can be taken multiple times. You have enough corpses that you feel comfortable making a few unusable in the name of learning.
Oorrr we could put Karstah and Snorri Research on this, and together with Destructive Research we'd complete it. (We have 4 White Lion corpses in the vault.)
Rune Research:
[ ] [Difficult] Wardstones: [Cost: (5 -2) =3 actions] Master of the Odd will proc. These Wardstones, the last creations of the Runesmiths of Karag Dum before they were wiped out, are capable of concealing the presence of a Dawi from the scrying of enemy magic. From Valka's testimony it wasn't perfect, but it made survival possible instead of impossible. That, and given the state of their resources, is a testament to their skill and canniness. A bit too quick to put to use in any other circumstance, uncovering the secrets of this Rune shouldn't be too difficult. Your epiphany after seeing the Rune of Valaya has given you ideas.
- [ ] Prod Yorri: [Cost 1 prod] Gain 1 progress. Yorri has an odd and contemplative look in his eye when he looks at these stones.
Getting these done and put in for our rune school would be cool. But we don't have to do it any time soon, as we don't have to start the Rune Hold any time soon.
 
I know we're planning to use a Fimir Balefiend/Witch-Queen eye if we get one out of this, I'm just hoping a more basic version with lesser ingredients is possible for the purposes of spreading the rune.

The perfect tier 4/tier 5 material for this is coming right up, and we're actively looking into elven magic, and we just lost an eye. Personally I think windsight is a very near thing, everything seems to be lining up perfectly for it.
Edit: Hell, there's a very good chance we won't even need a specific rune for it if we get the T5 material for it. The right combo & the eye might work. It's not something I'd want to be a T5 material on, and it's not repeatable besides, but I can very easily see it being possible.
I think the biggest problem for the rune is twofold. One it probably needs a eye that already had windsight to induce it (runes are weird like that) and there aren't that many non-murderous things out there that can see the wind (that we have access to).
And secondly it will probably include a master rune and teaching those is both difficult and partly fraund on.
 
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Finishing the armor grants some insight and progress into The Movement of Things. So we don't need to go nuts on Yorri prods for that.

And also, I kind of want to spend some of the Yorri Prods on Thungni's Riddle...

... Also also. I just had the thought; I wonder if Yorri is the Nameless because his last name is actually Durinson? If he's the son of Durin the lost, then... Well, that would give another dimension to why Alric was talking to him and trying to persuade him to become a Runelord; because he was talking to his nephew. It was personal/familial and not 'just' Alric trying to persuade a venerable and skilled Runesmith to step up and become a Runelord. And also, gives a new dimension to his thoughts on the Burudin, a creation of his father's.

Yorri Durinson. I'll bet that's it. I'll bet that's the answer to the mystery.

And, guys, we don't need to start the Rune Hold just yet now. In fact, let's not start it immediately please? Get some of the other things out of the way first.

Soulcake, I think by now the "Alchemy" Specialty should be added to that list, right?

Huh, these are all Simple Requests. We could put Karstah on this. In fact, 2 turns of Re-warding Work by Karstah would gain 1 reroll.

Oh hey, we could snipe this with either Karstah or our Research Action!

Oorrr we could put Karstah and Snorri Research on this, and together with Destructive Research we'd complete it. (We have 4 White Lion corpses in the vault.)

Getting these done and put in for our rune school would be cool. But we don't have to do it any time soon, as we don't have to start the Rune Hold any time soon.
I would argue that the Armor providing Movement progress is just more reason to go heavy on Movement for the synergy.
 
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